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Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




the gauls created mounds out of the spoils of war and taking things from them was a major sin in druid court and there was just huge piles of dead soldiers' gear and poo poo everywhere because the gauls were promising trophies to mars prior to battle to get pumped up.

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Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

i say swears online posted:

in hebrew mythology isaac was technically the final human sacrifice; angels came down and had abraham replace isaac with a ram, and animal sacrifice became the norm until...70ad? not sure, maybe much later

i think there was friction about that issue in joshua and judges during the invasion of canaan?? i can't remember
it's pretty clear that the ancient Israelites were sacrificing children, which nearly always is said to be to Molech, but there's some scholarly dispute whether the passages in question mean Molech as a separate Canaanite god or whether the children were being sacrificed to God and the various OT writers were telling them to knock that poo poo off because God's not cool with that. i am so not equipped to weigh in on that, other than to say that every Bible translation I am aware of treats Molech as a Canaanite god

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


the ancient israelites were not monotheistic so any god they worshipped other than yahweh is going to be treated as a "canaanite" god in the text

it's definitely not clear whether they did in fact sacrifice to yahweh tho, he's from the sinai rather than canaan so very possibly it was never part of yahweh-worshipping practices

Antonymous posted:

I also understand that romans in egypt were like 'hey your gods are way older so we double respect them, we're not going to gently caress with them one bit'

and that any territory of rome was allowed to do whatever as long as they also paid respect to Jupiter and later jesus and later than that, muhammad

but I'm no scholar

rome went through several phases in terms of religious freedom

in the republic, the romans did not care at all who you worshipped or how, aside from having a deep distaste for carthaginian and gallic religion because of the human sacrifice/death cult aspects of them.

in the empire pre-christianity, they didn't care who you worshipped as long as you threw in a sacrifice for the imperial cult here and there. sometimes they'd declare a day of sacrifice for the good of the state and you'd take a goat or whatever to the magistrate and slaughter it to empower the emperor. kind of like a national day of Thoughts and Prayers but bloodier. people didn't generally have a problem with this, except the jews, who managed to negotiate with the romans that they'd slaughter goats for God and he'd make sure everything went okay for the empire; kind of non-standard but acceptable, although it didn't turn out to be a very stable arrangement and the romans ended up soured on monotheism

after the emergence of the christian movement, the same rules applied, except christianity was actively against doing anything at all to spiritually aid the emperor so you couldn't be a good christian and also remain a citizen in good standing unless the local magistrate was also a secret christian or something.

when the empire converted to christianity, everything changed quite dramatically. it wasn't really okay to be anything but an orthodox christian altho various christian heresies floated around and it's said the last pagans lived in the greek and italian countrysides until like 800 AD or so.

i don't know a ton about the ottomans on this point but afaik generally you paid some pretty ruinous taxes as a non-muslim and were subject to having your children drafted for life as janissaries.

Jazerus has issued a correction as of 01:23 on May 28, 2022

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

quote:

after the emergence of the christian movement, the same rules applied, except christianity was actively against doing anything at all to spiritually aid the emperor so you couldn't be a good christian and also remain a citizen in good standing unless the local magistrate was also a secret christian or something

this was only a real problem for those that wanted to make it one, the faction if the Church that won was the one that was basically ok with lying and letting those that lied back. The hardcore faction your describing got Heretic'd

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


Real hurthling! posted:

the romans accepted amun as juppiter calling the god hammon.

And the British made him the god of high blood pressure and meat sweats, Gammon

Mayman10
May 11, 2019

Since people were talking about religion I'll share a few pictures of the Sanctuary of Aphaia on Aegina


Reconstruction and description


Front approach


Back view

Jel Shaker
Apr 19, 2003

i do wonder what they would look like fully built, maybe a bit like the renovation of the Castillo de Matrera in cadiz, or just somewhere nearby

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




Jel Shaker posted:

i do wonder what they would look like fully built, maybe a bit like the renovation of the Castillo de Matrera in cadiz, or just somewhere nearby

pestum is still pretty whole looking

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jazerus posted:

i don't know a ton about the ottomans on this point but afaik generally you paid some pretty ruinous taxes as a non-muslim and were subject to having your children drafted for life as janissaries.

Not an expert on this but my understanding is it was a mixed bag for non-Muslims in the Ottoman Empire. As you mention, the jizya taxes were heavier than the zakat levied on Muslims and the devshirme meant forcible conscription and Islamization for some, but there was also a degree of local autonomy and freedom of worship for non-Muslim religious communities which was eventually formalized into the millet system in the 19th century.

Mayman10
May 11, 2019

Jel Shaker posted:

i do wonder what they would look like fully built, maybe a bit like the renovation of the Castillo de Matrera in cadiz, or just somewhere nearby

The Temple of Hephaestus in Athens is apparently one of the most well preserved


Front


Side


Temple cat

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


So I just read this: https://grbs.library.duke.edu/article/view/16636/7487

A very recent reconstruction of the Battle of Pydna, proposing a new geographic location. I think it's very worth a read, especially if you've also read Soldiers & Ghosts since one of the most dramatic elements of the battle gets recounted there but this article just tells you to go to S&G if you want the details. Given that Pydna comes up all the time when people discuss Roman vs Macedonian tactics, the more details you're armed with about the battle the better.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/WeirdMedieval/status/1530862819817709570

never forgive never forget

Grevling
Dec 18, 2016

What was the meaning of those medieval animal cartoons? I vaguely recall hearing there's some symbolism behind them.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

Grevling posted:

What was the meaning of those medieval animal cartoons? I vaguely recall hearing there's some symbolism behind them.

to hazard a guess it's something along the lines of "ive been copying text for eight loving hours straight and i'm bored as gently caress"

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN
"hmm I'm in the market for a new family bible. ours is looking a little run down after 250 years, oh look this one has pictures of funny rabbits the kids will love it"

Communist Thoughts
Jan 7, 2008

Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!


People are like dogs and just sort of do things arbitrarily

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Grevling posted:

What was the meaning of those medieval animal cartoons? I vaguely recall hearing there's some symbolism behind them.

there is absolutely no way you're going to get an authoritative, singular answer to this

like we might, might, be able to tease out some percentage of the meaning of snails jousting with knights

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-were-medieval-knights-always-fighting-snails-1728888/

but like, WOW there's a lot

Mr. Sharps
Jul 30, 2006

The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.



knights fighting snails is just the medieval version of the cool S. you didn’t know where it came from when you carved it into the desk during home room, but that didnt matter

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

i thought it was cause monks hate snails

Endman
May 18, 2010

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die


Snails eat the lettuces in the priory garden, much to the woes of the monks who take their petty revenge through doodles

Ali Alkali
Apr 23, 2008
as they say in the article, the snail is a stand in for italians

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
collected about two litres of snails from moms garden on the weekend, and thought about the english as i did the needful

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

lollontee posted:

collected about two litres of snails from moms garden on the weekend, and thought about the english as i did the needful
snails, or slugs??

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

snails, or slugs??

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianta_arbustorum

these motherfuckers. the local birds seemingly refuse to eat them

Grevling
Dec 18, 2016

Tulip posted:

there is absolutely no way you're going to get an authoritative, singular answer to this

like we might, might, be able to tease out some percentage of the meaning of snails jousting with knights

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-were-medieval-knights-always-fighting-snails-1728888/

but like, WOW there's a lot

Is it too much to ask of these monk types to put a little "NB dear future reader this is what these doodles mean to me: ... hope this helps" in the margins? Come on.

Inspector Hound
Jul 14, 2003

Tulip posted:

there is absolutely no way you're going to get an authoritative, singular answer to this

like we might, might, be able to tease out some percentage of the meaning of snails jousting with knights

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/why-were-medieval-knights-always-fighting-snails-1728888/

but like, WOW there's a lot

To better understand stuff like this, I try to figure out what we have today that are analogous to it.

What the hell do we even have today like that. sports team mascots maybe?

e the cool S everyone drew in the third grade, but for monks

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

lollontee posted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianta_arbustorum

these motherfuckers. the local birds seemingly refuse to eat them
I think this means your mom either shits in her garden or has buried a body in it.

Inspector Hound posted:

To better understand stuff like this, I try to figure out what we have today that are analogous to it.

What the hell do we even have today like that. sports team mascots maybe?

e the cool S everyone drew in the third grade, but for monks
The modern analogue is drawing cool battle scenes between monsters and fighter planes.

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I think this means your mom either shits in her garden or has buried a body in it.

The modern analogue is drawing cool battle scenes between monsters and fighter planes.

it is an old mansion that once belonged to the owner of nearby factory. you bet your rear end theres corpses down there

Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Inspector Hound posted:

To better understand stuff like this, I try to figure out what we have today that are analogous to it.

What the hell do we even have today like that. sports team mascots maybe?

e the cool S everyone drew in the third grade, but for monks

i mean my twitter feed is full of people just drawing random witches and cyberpunk and cyberpunk witches

Grevling posted:

Is it too much to ask of these monk types to put a little "NB dear future reader this is what these doodles mean to me: ... hope this helps" in the margins? Come on.

"show don't tell" is a war on future historians

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

lollontee posted:

it is an old mansion that once belonged to the owner of nearby factory. you bet your rear end theres corpses down there
time to make some content for the modern history thread

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

that snail wouldn't dare show its face in the US, we have possums

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Tulip posted:


"show don't tell" is a war on future historians

lol

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
if Archimedes didn't invent bouyancy until 246 BC, how did people know how much weight ships could carry before then?

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

if Archimedes didn't invent bouyancy until 246 BC, how did people know how much weight ships could carry before then?

duh

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/EH_Stonehenge/status/1531168553990250496

oh so thats why ancient peoples built stonehenge

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
can't believe these people hate the queen that much. a real royalist would've painted it.

Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

stonehenge is a gaol for her soul and they're warming it up

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://mobile.twitter.com/historydefined/status/1531706604969775105

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Sooo would that have had water at the bottom of the steps? Or do you jump in, enter the dark and fight the four kings?

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Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




https://mobile.twitter.com/allaboutsfo/status/1531708751958671360/photo/1

one of the replies has a newspaper bullet point list that mentions underground lakes

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