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Anyone here mind testing a riddle for me? Only hint is that it's a place in a mecha factor/workshop/R+D lab. Strong as an ox, yet meek as a mouse Swiftly I fly, yet in darkness I die Laughter my name brings, though my face is dread In my bowels the prize you'll find, And hastily too, or you'll be dead! Solution: there isn't one, any answer is valid, I just want to hear what people might come up with
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May 25, 2022 07:20
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| # ? May 11, 2024 12:51 |
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It's been like 10 minutes and I can't figure it out, that's too much time. About to reveal the spoiler. fake e: aaaaaagh gently caress yooooou
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May 25, 2022 18:42
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lightrook posted:Anyone here mind testing a riddle for me? Only hint is that it's a place in a mecha factor/workshop/R+D lab. Fire
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May 25, 2022 18:54
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The solution is pickle-flavoured coffee, a tooth in a granola bar, and an apple in the gas tank, i.e: an unwelcome surprise that makes the expected experience both very memorable and markedly less fun. E. Maybe I am a grognard who really hates puzzles
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May 25, 2022 19:08
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lightrook posted:Anyone here mind testing a riddle for me? Only hint is that it's a place in a mecha factor/workshop/R+D lab. Uranium Mine
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May 25, 2022 21:33
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lightrook posted:Anyone here mind testing a riddle for me? Only hint is that it's a place in a mecha factor/workshop/R+D lab. Deez nuts
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May 25, 2022 21:56
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Leaving aside the question of whether riddles in a TTRPG are a good idea, this seems like a poor way to make a riddle. A riddle's text should map to only one answer and should map to it perfectly. If it feels like multiple answers are right, or if it doesn't look like the "right" answer actually matches the text, it's gonna feel like a poo poo riddle. If you start with the riddle and work backwards to generate the answer, you're almost never going to luck into a riddle text that describes one and only one thing unambiguously. If you put a riddle in your game, you want the players to have an "ah-ha!" moment where they work out the answer and feel smart. A riddle they can't work out is bad, but I'd argue that a riddle where they make a vague, confused guess and it turns out they're right is even worse, because it resolves the tension of the unanswered riddle in the most boring and anticlimactic way possible. The players won't feel smart because they didn't understand why their guess was right before they made it, and they'll feel worse if they can't work out why that guess in particular had to be right afterward.
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May 25, 2022 22:10
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Reveilled posted:Leaving aside the question of whether riddles in a TTRPG are a good idea, this seems like a poor way to make a riddle. A riddle's text should map to only one answer and should map to it perfectly. If it feels like multiple answers are right, or if it doesn't look like the "right" answer actually matches the text, it's gonna feel like a poo poo riddle. If you start with the riddle and work backwards to generate the answer, you're almost never going to luck into a riddle text that describes one and only one thing unambiguously. yup, this "make open ended puzzles with no solution" poo poo is absolutely awful because if there is no intuitive answer you are just road blocking players with garbage content as busywork. people who like puzzles like feeling the puzzle is clever and they are more clever for seeing through it, people who hate puzzles hate puzzles. when you create a puzzle where the "solution" is to make up convincing crap in desperate hope the DM thinks it is good enough after banging their heads against a wall, all you have done is frustrated people and made the game session worse. E: to be more productive, for non-riddles, create 3 plausible solutions to every open ended problem that the party could feasibly do. then if they get stuck you can have them do appropriate skill checks on their character sheet to get hints or even solve the puzzle(their character might be smarter than they are, not everyone is a world renowned genius but you can play one in a game). for riddles you need the one answer. but again - you need an answer. if you think the partys answer is better than your answer there is no shame in giving them credit, but having no solution is just awful game design and if your players find out you do stuff like that they will feel every puzzle you make might just be literally a waste of their time pog boyfriend fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 22:25
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The only fun open-ended puzzle I've played with was in Fate, where enemies trapped the party beside a door with 10 stress boxes. The Barbarian used Fight to smash part way through, which revealed hidden runes the Investigator used Lore on, and then passed it to the Diplomat to solve with their language skills. If there's no real answer, let the players know in advance and let them have fun inventing one.
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May 25, 2022 22:50
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At least they ran it by the thread first. This is a bad puzzle, but there's a nugget of quality in the idea and this subforum is the crucible in which such things are forged by angry goons into a masterpiece, or something idk
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May 25, 2022 23:07
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Captain Walker posted:This is a bad puzzle, Ugh, another riddle with no actual answer
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May 25, 2022 23:47
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I ran Tomb of Horrors once and the party absolutely did not pay any attention to the riddles. They assumed the riddles were lies and just a trap like everything else. So they poked everything with 10 foot poles instead, or sent hirelings into rooms first.
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May 25, 2022 23:53
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Thanks everyone for the feedback! It would probably help if I provided a little bit more context. The players will be told to go steal something from a facility, and the solution to the riddle is where the item will be found. The system in question is Beam Saber/FitD, so I'm not exactly tied to a floor plan or anything, and the idea is that any solution will be fine as long as it gets the players moving. I truly do intend for the players to find the prize at the first place they guess (or maybe second, if things go too smoothly), so the only fear is that they don't go anywhere at all, which I guess is what the clocks are for. Again, it exists only to let the players choose where they want to go, and also define the facility they're breaking into. I also dislike tedious riddles and puzzles as much as anyone else, so I really want to make sure that it doesn't get the players stuck.
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May 26, 2022 00:26
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If I was including a fake riddle with no answer, I would probably also include some data logs the party could read where the security architect mentioned that they put in a fake puzzle to waste the time of intruders. Either the players would laugh when they saw the riddle nerd getting increasingly annoyed with facility staff filing support tickets about the unsolvable riddle, or they'd fixate on the fake riddle guy who wasted their time as the next Great Enemy, Who Must Be Destroyed At Any Cost.
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May 26, 2022 01:14
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avoraciopoctules posted:If I was including a fake riddle with no answer, I would probably also include some data logs the party could read where the security architect mentioned that they put in a fake puzzle to waste the time of intruders. Either the players would laugh when they saw the riddle nerd getting increasingly annoyed with facility staff filing support tickets about the unsolvable riddle, or they'd fixate on the fake riddle guy who wasted their time as the next Great Enemy, Who Must Be Destroyed At Any Cost. The riddle comes from their riddle-obsessed CO, that everyone hates and got relegated to the Rejects Brigade for annoying too many people with riddles. The players themselves also hate them, but are likewise stuck in the Rejects Brigade for their own reasons and have no choice but to deal with the inane riddles. It was actually decided by the group in our session 0 that their direct superior should be The Riddler (nested inside jokes) and give mission briefings in the form of riddles, and that no one can stand the guy, so their hatred of riddles is well-established even in-character. Mostly I just wanted to see if it sounded reasonably convincing, and make sure it doesn't halt play altogether. Since their answer will become the destination, any solution at all will be fine for moving them forwards, so the main contingency I'd want is something to prod them forward if they spend too much overthinking it.
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May 26, 2022 01:34
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lightrook posted:The riddle comes from their riddle-obsessed CO, that everyone hates and got relegated to the Rejects Brigade for annoying too many people with riddles. The players themselves also hate them, but are likewise stuck in the Rejects Brigade for their own reasons and have no choice but to deal with the inane riddles. It was actually decided by the group in our session 0 that their direct superior should be The Riddler (nested inside jokes) and give mission briefings in the form of riddles, and that no one can stand the guy, so their hatred of riddles is well-established even in-character. Mostly I just wanted to see if it sounded reasonably convincing, and make sure it doesn't halt play altogether. Since their answer will become the destination, any solution at all will be fine for moving them forwards, so the main contingency I'd want is something to prod them forward if they spend too much overthinking it. lol ok that's great
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May 26, 2022 01:45
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lightrook posted:The riddle comes from their riddle-obsessed CO, that everyone hates and got relegated to the Rejects Brigade for annoying too many people with riddles. The players themselves also hate them, but are likewise stuck in the Rejects Brigade for their own reasons and have no choice but to deal with the inane riddles. It was actually decided by the group in our session 0 that their direct superior should be The Riddler (nested inside jokes) and give mission briefings in the form of riddles, and that no one can stand the guy, so their hatred of riddles is well-established even in-character. Mostly I just wanted to see if it sounded reasonably convincing, and make sure it doesn't halt play altogether. Since their answer will become the destination, any solution at all will be fine for moving them forwards, so the main contingency I'd want is something to prod them forward if they spend too much overthinking it. okay, with context this doesnt seem nearly as garbage as it first read lol. this is cool actually. pog seal of approval
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May 26, 2022 03:19
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sebmojo posted:lol ok that's great pog boyfriend posted:okay, with context this doesnt seem nearly as garbage as it first read lol. this is cool actually. pog seal of approval thanks, much appreciated! if it goes well this saturday I'll try to write it up, if I don't just assume it's because I'm tired, lazy, or forgetful, and not because it was yet another train wreck. edit: For "operational security" but mostly just because their CO is a gigantic prick, the players will not be told the riddle until they're already on-site, so they can't sit around too long or security will sniff them out, and have to make their best guess and get moving. lightrook fucked around with this message at 07:06 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 04:00
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lightrook posted:Anyone here mind testing a riddle for me? Only hint is that it's a place in a mecha factor/workshop/R+D lab. The answer is the sun. You never hear it, but always know its there Fun goes with sun, but it would be the last face you ever stare at insert treasure, here its hot inside the sun, protection from fire won't cut it swap fusion reactor for sun as needed edit: should have read the whole page
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May 26, 2022 10:05
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Squidster posted:The only fun open-ended puzzle I've played with was in Fate, where enemies trapped the party beside a door with 10 stress boxes. The Barbarian used Fight to smash part way through, which revealed hidden runes the Investigator used Lore on, and then passed it to the Diplomat to solve with their language skills. If there's no real answer, let the players know in advance and let them have fun inventing one. We had a really good open-ended puzzle last year, with a solution that felt natural enough that it was only when we asked the DM afterwards that we realised it wasn't pre-planned. We were trying to get past a magical lock into the study of an ancient necromancer princess, and all we had to go on was a plate on the door marked with her sigil, and a note that had been left by a previous explorer saying 'You just have to be her'. Over the course of exploring the rest of her villa, we'd acquired: - Access to her preserved wardrobe - The scurrilous writings of Fantasy Suetonius, who had a lot to say about the degenerate practices of the imperial family - A whole heap of psychological issues for the paladin, who was beginning to feel an uncomfortable kinship with the woman To solve, it we used descriptions from the ancient porn to recreate the outfit of an imperial princess, stuffed the paladin in it, had the rogue use his disguise kit proficiency to give her appropriately gothic eyeliner, then she shouted at the door until she had a minor breakdown and it opened for her. We later learned that the previous explorer had got past using illusions and, indeed, the rogue had suggested using Disguise Self at the time but everyone agreed making the paladin do cosplay was a better and funnier solution.
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May 26, 2022 11:27
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One of my players is new and a druid and her fantasy of DND is basically "little witch goes on grand adventure and makes lots of animal and fey friends" and I'm in love with it. She really wanted a unicorn ally so I had them go on an adventure into the feywild and heal a sick unicorn who was poisoned by an evil wizard trying to create a phylactery. The healed unicorn passed her baby to the druid to "teach them the ways of mortals so that it won't be tricked like I was" Anyway, I had intended for evil NPCs to target the unicorn trying to kill it later, but the player said afterwards that she's staunchly against any kind of animal death, literally "I will kill myself if my unicorn dies." And her and another player got dogs from a random event in a town later and said they wanna use the dogs but killing them can't happen. ...So animal death is off the table. I'm cool with that. The animals will run away from combat if they take any damage and have 1000 health in the VTT I'm using, so they can't even mechanically die to a stray fireball. But now the party is walking around towns with the unicorn out and occasionally getting a reaction, but otherwise it's having very little impact on the game itself. I feel like having a baby unicorn should be a way bigger deal than it is! So I'm planning to paraphrase that to the player and give her a few options for making things more interesting, and wanted to get your opinions on them first, or get more ideas. -The unicorn fawn was given to you with the expectation that it would be protected. You know someone out there tried to kill it's mother. The unicorn fawn cant die, but if you let it be visible in a public place then it may be targeted by people with evil intent and stolen. -Despite its looks, a unicorn is closer to an angel than it is to a deer or horse. It has a spark of divinity that grows as it ages. If the unicorn is surrounded by murder and evil, they will eventually become aligned with that evil. You were given this unicorn with the expectation of nurturing it. You need to try and convince this bunch of murder hobos to do good deeds occasionally, for his sake. -A unicorn belongs in its Woad, a magical fey forest. The longer it's away, the more it loses touch with that magic. You were given the unicorn with the expectation of finding it a home, and that means helping it convert an Evil forest into a Good one. You have about 3 weeks before the unicorn's spark of divinity fades and it's no different from a normal deer. Jinh fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 16:39
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Everyone definitely wants to get a hold of that unicorn. the thing about not being evil around it is also good. And having already been seen might be a good time for a plot hook of attempted kidnapping or something like that. You could also mix in attempts by good guys or authority figures who the player characters aren't supposed to kill like a local King who wants the faun for it for his child.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:00
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Surely an evil wizard would much rather capture the unicorn babby than just kill it outright, and the party flaunting its living treasure draws unwanted attention. The unicorn itself may not be in mortal peril, but its welfare is, and the party is forfeit in that transaction.Jinh posted:-Despite it's looks, a unicorn is closer to an angel than it is to a deer or horse. It has a spark of divinity that grows as it ages. If the unicorn is surrounded by murder and evil, they will eventually become aligned with that evil. You were given this unicorn with the expectation of nurturing it. You need to try and convince this bunch of murder hobos to do good deeds occasionally, for his sake. This is ace, the potential for a dark unicorn is legit. So much potential. Herald of the apocalypse type stuff.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:03
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Jinh posted:-The unicorn fawn was given to you with the expectation that it would be protected. You know someone out there tried to kill it's mother. The unicorn fawn cant die, but if you let it be visible in a public place then it may be targeted by people with evil intent and stolen. There's a lot of degrees of danger in-between relative safety and death. I think if you wanted to threaten the unicorn without the player feeling like its life is on the line, you could have some poachers try to take it to cut off its horn (or harvest some other magical aspects of it). Or maybe it can tie into your second idea and some demons would try to turn it into a Nightmare or some other evil brand of horse. Jinh posted:-Despite it's looks, a unicorn is closer to an angel than it is to a deer or horse. It has a spark of divinity that grows as it ages. If the unicorn is surrounded by murder and evil, they will eventually become aligned with that evil. You were given this unicorn with the expectation of nurturing it. You need to try and convince this bunch of murder hobos to do good deeds occasionally, for his sake. This is a pretty good idea. Another way to get this across without explicitly saying "hey, go easy on the murderhobo" would be to have the Unicorn express its own intentions in a scene; so if the party goes full murderhobo on an innocent townsfolk then maybe the unicorn takes some time to (futilely) heal the dead townsfolk.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:15
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Harold Fjord posted:And having already been seen might be a good time for a plot hook of attempted kidnapping or something like that. You could also mix in attempts by good guys or authority figures who the player characters aren't supposed to kill like a local King who wants the faun for it for his child. Good guys wanting it for reasons/wanting to use the party for reasons bc they have a unicorn is a great idea that I hadn't really thought about, thanks! There's a druid circle and an evil forest nearby and Idk why but my brain never realized I could have the druid want to use the party to fix the forest because it would be good for the unicorn. Arrrthritis posted:There's a lot of degrees of danger in-between relative safety and death. I think if you wanted to threaten the unicorn without the player feeling like its life is on the line, you could have some poachers try to take it to cut off its horn (or harvest some other magical aspects of it). Or maybe it can tie into your second idea and some demons would try to turn it into a Nightmare or some other evil brand of horse. I have a hard time imaging how exactly someone would go about stealing it actually, since the party is observant. I'll think up a good ambushing enemy and next time they split up I'll give it a shot. Fakeedit: actually I have a perfect way to do this  Arrrthritis posted:This is a pretty good idea. Another way to get this across without explicitly saying "hey, go easy on the murderhobo" would be to have the Unicorn express its own intentions in a scene; so if the party goes full murderhobo on an innocent townsfolk then maybe the unicorn takes some time to (futilely) heal the dead townsfolk. I don't actually mind murderhobo stuff in DnD in general, I just really wanna drive home that "having a baby unicorn" fantasy for the player, and feel like trying to help preserve its purity as a creature is a big part of that. I love the healing the dead townsfolk idea. Next time the players kill someone in a questionable scenario, I'll definitely use it! Bad Munki posted:Surely an evil wizard would much rather capture the unicorn babby than just kill it outright, and the party flaunting its living treasure draws unwanted attention. The unicorn itself may not be in mortal peril, but its welfare is, and the party is forfeit in that transaction. Thanks 👍 I hadn't really thought of it as an apocalyptic thing but you're right and I should play that up more. Jinh fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 17:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=als5pGB3Tfg
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Jun 2, 2022 19:13
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Right? Even Darkness himself doesn't want to kill the unicorn. He just needs it, for a thing. Anyhow, congrats on your campaign now including Tom Cruise.
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Jun 2, 2022 19:16
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Bad Munki posted:Anyhow, congrats on your campaign now including Tom Cruise. i guess i should have been more specific; my suggestion was "Tim Curry Baatezu"
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Jun 2, 2022 19:18
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i guess i should have been more specific; my suggestion was "Tim Curry Baatezu" Coward
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Jun 2, 2022 19:21
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Jinh posted:But now the party is walking around towns with the unicorn out and occasionally getting a reaction, but otherwise it's having very little impact on the game itself. I feel like having a baby unicorn should be a way bigger deal than it is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHc9d2Nihuk&t=113s
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Jun 2, 2022 21:08
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The schemes to capture the unicorn should be on the level of Team Rocket imo. But I just like the idea of, like, some wizard dresses up with a fake moustache trying to lure the party to a 'unicorn contest' where he is also the judge and announcer and the other unicorns are just horses with horns taped on.
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Jun 3, 2022 04:14
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Unicorn look-alike contest, which the party fails to win
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Jun 3, 2022 04:19
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Harold Fjord posted:Everyone definitely wants to get a hold of that unicorn. the thing about not being evil around it is also good. There is a Unicorn in an Adventure, and after talking to it a villain shows up and tries to kill it for it's horn. (He will almost certainly fail to kill the Unicorn before it teleports away, but it's the thought that counts) And all the Bad guys in the module want a Unicorn horn. People wanting a Horn will for sure be after anyone with a Unicorn.
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Jun 3, 2022 05:21
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Obscure swordfighting school refuses to recognize practitioners as masters until they get into a sword vs horn fight with a unicorn. Shady orphanage begs to borrow the unicorn for "adoption day." I swear that Bulfinch's mythology tells a version of the unicorn tale where the horn floats free and glows. So that any hunting party must include a master fencer. This conjures up visions of a swordfight with a unicorn to "Duel of the Fates."
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Jun 3, 2022 11:09
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habituallyred posted:This conjures up visions of a swordfight with a unicorn to "Duel of the Fates." And then the unicorn gets ready to really fight and a second horn pops out the other end…double ended unicorn!
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Jun 3, 2022 15:19
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Bad Munki posted:And then the unicorn gets ready to really fight and a second horn pops out the other end…double ended unicorn! The forbidden binicorn technique… I thought it was lost forever…
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Jun 3, 2022 15:33
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does the unicorn have to be something to be protected? a wizard's spellbook is pretty valuable and has lots of utility, does the wizard have to safeguard their spellbook from theft or mishap? does the unicorn have to be something remarkable and disruptive? I feel like if fantasy peasants went around being astonished at fantasy creatures then they wouldn't get anything done nothing wrong with these ideas, of course. just, perhaps this a dissonance between player expectation and setting tone - high fantasy versus something more grounded and muted. maybe the player just wants the unicorn to be a fantasy-animal-themed ally that's smart enough to be independent but animal enough to have trouble with doors etc., rather than a hostage or millstone
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Jun 3, 2022 19:49
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That's a good question, and should actually be the first thing I ask the player. I don't want the unicorn to weigh the group down. Actually removed the third option I posted earlier from my list, because being forced to go to the evil forest just because the unicorn needs it might feel like a forced escort mission.
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Jun 3, 2022 21:16
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yeah they weren't interested in any of that, they just wanna roll dice and kill monsters while having a cute unicorn, zero roleplaying interest. it's a shame, could have been so rad!
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Jun 4, 2022 03:31
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Does anyone have any particular advice, or favorite suggestions for sources to read, on how to design dungeons? My dungeon-crawls have always been narrative driven and I'm interested in at least attempting to run something a little more like the dungeons included in modules. Tosk fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 03:02
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