fast cars loose anus posted:

America, "figure it out yourself"

LastInLine posted:

That's not exactly true. Conservatives don't want to tear things down in the sense that we, the left, do. They do believe in a vision of America as it exists and a path by which that vision can become reality. But they don't believe that it's just the people in charge which are the problem. I mean they do believe that but not *just* that; they believe that "mistakes" have been made which need to be undone.

The key difference between a lib ("America is already great") and a conservative is that conservatives see a political means to accomplish their goals and libs lack political goals of any kind. Conservatives are building something, libs merely wish to use the existing political machinery for graft. Both will tell you they're fans of America, but make no mistake that conservatives very much want to change it.

I'm not going to quote Dr. Kyle Farnsworth but all of that is correct. I understand the quibble with the idea of conservatives wanting to "tear it down" but I feel like that was more a poor word choice because should the conservative project be completed, as seems more likely every day, America would indeed be completely changed (although I would also argue it could not be described as torn down, simply more naked in what it has always been).

hailthefish posted:

yeah if you wanna get a lib really fuckin mad point out that they're definitionally a conservative

(and they get even madder when you point out that the people who call themselves conservatives are literally just fascists)

Subvisual Haze posted:

It's a a very unstable ruling coalition, it's hard not to see the parallels to 1930s rising fascism era or the 1848 liberal revolutionary regimes that almost instantly collapsed because their base of support (educated liberals) was so narrow. You get the impression a halfway competent strongman could seize control of the whole system and the majority of this country would just shrug their shoulders.

Shear Modulus posted:

How does this not describe what trump has already done

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

yeah he was maybe in a position to do that but basically just shrugged because it would have been more work than posting

WampaLord posted:

one almost has to admire his level of laziness

hailthefish posted:

lmao

yeah show me all the powerpoints you want about how great The Economy is, it won't change the fact I'll never be able to own a home, never be able to retire, hell I'll be stuck sharing a studio apartment with 2-3 other people until I loving blow my brains out lmao

DoubleDonut posted:

is it even better for anyone in the aggregate? I’m legitimately not sure who’s doing better that wasn’t already very comfortably rich

Shear Modulus posted:

ok but since then the republicans have built the machinery to install him as president no matter what the real result of the next presidential election is

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

I don't know if it occurred to him in the moment that he could have lead those people to the Capitol building and actually accomplished something because who tf is gonna arrest the president, but it will never not be funny to me that the real reason he didn't is because it was too long of a walk and he wanted to go home and watch TV and eat lunch

fast cars loose anus posted:

A lot of people would affirmatively support it if the strongman started clearing some entrenched people out of their cushy positions, frankly

Mokelumne Trekka posted:

The Democrats are succeeding, actually. The narrative that the party went too Left and got crushed because of it is already locked into place. At this point, Dem reps are impatiently looking at their watches waiting for the ritual to be over.

Winifred Madgers posted:

if trump had actually been serious about his "drain the swamp" rhetoric and e.g. abolished the CIA? I would definitely have been all aboard.

Shear Modulus posted:

How does this not describe what trump has already done

Subvisual Haze posted:

To exercise real autocratic control you'd need to purge the bureaucracies. Which obviously Trump was too unfocused and lazy to even attempt to do.

If attempted, it might well be possible though, particularly with the current makeup of the supreme court. And again, would the majority of the country really care all that much if the President fired a bunch of unelected bureaucrats? It would be a violation of our sacred norms, but how many people really believe in system and its norms at this point?

Mokelumne Trekka posted:

The Democrats are succeeding, actually. The narrative that the party went too Left and got crushed because of it is already locked into place. At this point, Dem reps are impatiently looking at their watches waiting for the ritual to be over.

Shear Modulus posted:

well, he did a pretty good job at purging the bureaucracies of a lot of professional bureaucrats that actually made the bureaucracy function without even trying by prompting mass resignations. He also facilitated the complete takeover of the ultimate political-bureaucratic authority by completing the takeover of the supreme court, which gave him and the republicans ultimate control over every facet of the bureaucracy (even moreso than the president who is nominally in control of the federal bureaucracy, since the court can overrule the president).

e: oh you already mentioned the court

i am harry posted:

Srice posted:

.1 seconds after they officially lose the house, they are gonna rant about how defund the police caused them to lose

ex post facho posted:

the left blaming began last fall when they torpedoed themselves in the VA gov race with another Clinton succophant in mcauliffe

the Republicans are going to have a 10 or 15 seat majority in the house, and probably 2 seats in the Senate

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

yeah he was maybe in a position to do that but basically just shrugged because it would have been more work than posting

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

I don't know if it occurred to him in the moment that he could have lead those people to the Capitol building and actually accomplished something because who tf is gonna arrest the president, but it will never not be funny to me that the real reason he didn't is because it was too long of a walk and he wanted to go home and watch TV and eat lunch

The Oldest Man posted:

The democrats completely stopped doing anything positive legislatively about five decades ago and now prefer to simply tell you to shut the gently caress up and vote for them or else you're defacto supporting New Hitler by your absence of support for Current Hindenburg

Srice posted:

.1 seconds after they officially lose the house, they are gonna rant about how defund the police caused them to lose

Subvisual Haze posted:

To exercise real autocratic control you'd need to purge the bureaucracies. Which obviously Trump was too unfocused and lazy to even attempt to do.

If attempted, it might well be possible though, particularly with the current makeup of the supreme court. And again, would the majority of the country really care all that much if the President fired a bunch of unelected bureaucrats? It would be a violation of our sacred norms, but how many people really believe in system and its norms at this point?

Mayor Dave posted:

The end of democracy in America is pretty much guaranteed at this point and it is going to suck for a whole bunch of people

sexpig by night posted:

Thank you for the link!

Honestly, I'm feeling like I cannot trust this poll. I'm so confused on the results of this. For example, how does 35% of Democratic women under 50 (over 1/3!!!!) agree with "men should be represented and valued more in our society"? And I know this is ageist, but especially when that's a higher percentage than Democratic women over 50 (27%)?

I was trying to find the underlying data of this poll, but I get nothing when I try to search for Tulchin Research survey for this poll.

I'm feeling especially because this was an "online panel"

E: I just want to clarify though, thank you for sharing this link/info Willa. Maybe I had too much hope for society moving more towards gender equality...

E2: Also, how are younger people, both Democratic/Republican and Men/Women, more transphobic than their older counterparts when it comes to trying to "indoctrinate children into their lifestyle"?? As far as transgender people being a threat to children, at least Republican women are moving more towards being less transphobic? Seriously, I'm getting more and more confused as I look at these results...