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priznat posted:Also UK car pricing is weird I've done the math before and it made a ford escort sound insane by prices here in canada even doing the conversion, perhaps they just pay more? I don't remember since I haven't been in years, does canada include sales taxes in prices or is it added afterward? European prices typically include VAT which is 20% +/- whatever. For reference, the top trim ioniq 5 2wd in the uk is 48k GBP. The top end 2wd in the US is about 50k (plus taxes). Prices typically come closer to just replacing the euro/gbp symbol with usd, but they also frequently drop features to do so.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:25
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You paralyzed someone with a Vanagon Jesus Christ that’s loving metal. All we did with ours was go on family vacations and get the Blaupunkt stolen out of it quarterly by the neighborhood miscreant.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:29
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e: I got a picture of it somewhere I’ll see if I can find it. e: reply is not edit e again: 
bird with big dick fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jun 1, 2022 |
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Jun 1, 2022 22:29
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cool kids know: this is the most psychopath thread in AI and I love it
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Jun 1, 2022 22:30
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The Buzz will be "Americanized" and I imagine will have a larger battery in addition to a larger vehicle, hopefully it balances out to a longer range.
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Jun 1, 2022 23:10
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Kia Soul Enthusias posted:The Buzz will be "Americanized" and I imagine will have a larger battery in addition to a larger vehicle, hopefully it balances out to a longer range. They'll be making a long wheelbase model (with a bigger battery) as well as a California model which is closer to the prototype design. Both of which will not be sold in U.S.
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Jun 1, 2022 23:46
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Nfcknblvbl posted:They'll be making a long wheelbase model (with a bigger battery) as well as a California model which is closer to the prototype design. Both of which will not be sold in U.S. US is only getting the long wheelbase model, both will be offered in Europe. And I am not totally shocked by the pricing, it's basically a halo car aimed at wealthy boomers, beach house communities will probably be crawling with them.
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Jun 2, 2022 00:12
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bird with big dick posted:e: I got a picture of it somewhere I’ll see if I can find it. imagine this with a 0-60 of 4 seconds and a 4 ton battery pack
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Jun 2, 2022 00:20
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cruft posted:This reminds me, cruft jr wants to race the Telsa against the Bolt. Is there a way to do this sort of thing responsibly that doesn't involve a 4-hour round trip to the nearest closed circuit track? Legally? No. Illegally? Yeah man an empty parking lot is a race track until the boys in blue roll up. Pull up next to your kiddo on the highway, beep your horn three times, and hammer down. For real though see if there's a drag strip closer to you that has a street legal drag night.
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Jun 2, 2022 00:48
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Safety Dance posted:For real though see if there's a drag strip closer to you that has a street legal drag night. There are two. One is 108 miles away, the other is 240 miles away. On the other hand, there are a whole lot of straight, empty roads with excellent visibility out here in the West. We're probably just going to skip it, though. Too many other priorities.
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Jun 2, 2022 00:55
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gwrtheyrn posted:I don't remember since I haven't been in years, does canada include sales taxes in prices or is it added afterward? European prices typically include VAT which is 20% +/- whatever. We have a mishmash of federal and provincial sales taxes applied after the sale, usually works out to about 12%, but adding the VAT into the price definitely would account for more of that difference! The preferred rwd ioniq is 54k here, and just noticing it looks like they bumped the prices because the awd used to be just below 55k to max out govt incentives but now it is 57k. I wonder if the govt changed the threshold, not sure. Anyway that’s pre taxes.
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Jun 2, 2022 01:19
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cruft posted:So the ID Buzz starts at $72,000 and has a range of "over 200 miles". The Ford Transit EV runs about $40k. That's a nutty price for a ID Buzz.
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Jun 2, 2022 01:30
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love to see VW attempt to give the ID.Buzz Touareg pricing
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Jun 2, 2022 01:38
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Ok Comboomer posted:love to see VW attempt to give the ID.Buzz Touareg pricing Here in Italy, the starting price of the Touareg is 77k€ while the buzz is 56k€ . It's more expensive than a Tiguan(starts at 33k€) which isn't moving much volume due to death by thousand options pricing.
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Jun 2, 2022 09:12
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cruft posted:There are two. One is 108 miles away, the other is 240 miles away. Best you can do for yourself (and others) is get a couple of lookouts and figure out a safe start /finish where you can focus on the driving while there’s people focused on any other vehicles. It’d be no different of me closing a road or working in the road, the biggest part of it isn’t the actual work taking place, it’s the two flaggers at each end letting everyone else know if a vehicle is coming. Don’t just assume the road is empty. Ever. Sure it’s more effort than just going to an empty road and hoping for the best of all you’re looking for is to feel the accelerator and do a couple of 0-60 but if you really want to do something dumb be safe about it.
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Jun 2, 2022 12:51
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im begging you guys to not extrapolate car prices across countries first off, you have all of the normal price level factors, taxes, etc that change pricing. then, for almost every manufacturer the local national sales company sets prices based on what they think the market will bear. VW UK's ID.buzz product planner clearly believes they can price the thing at a substantial premium. the EV transit in the UK for instance is 48k GBP so that's only about 7k GBP difference between the two, and the transit is very much a work vehicle
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Jun 2, 2022 13:05
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I put down $100 to reserve an ID.4. I got to test drive it and a Mustang Mach E, and while I certainly liked how the latter handled (maybe even a smidge more), I think the ID.4 was ultimately better suited for my needs. I hope VW tweaks their user-interface before too long though. That control panel sure as poo poo isn’t as optimized or user-friendly as it could be, and I couldn’t see people like my parents ever getting accustomed to it. I’m one of these people that just sets a cabin temperature and the volume on the radio so I’ll deal, but it’s weird that these issues even exist in 2022. Like, we’ve had smart phones and iPads and poo poo for close to 20 years now. User-interfaces have been figured out and refined, so I don’t know why VW completely disregarded those lessons to essentially start from scratch.
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Jun 2, 2022 13:09
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Almost Smart posted:I’m one of these people that just sets a cabin temperature and the volume on the radio so I’ll deal, but it’s weird that these issues even exist in 2022. Like, we’ve had smart phones and iPads and poo poo for close to 20 years now. User-interfaces have been figured out and refined, so I don’t know why VW completely disregarded those lessons to essentially start from scratch. I feel this is a common thing with tech. When something has become the norm, people (VW execs in this case) takes for granted that rolling their own will conform to the new norm, underestimating how much higher the threshold for the new norm is.
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Jun 2, 2022 13:40
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I sat in an S with the yoke (first time I've seen the local service center with an S demo) and I know I'm six and a half feet tall so not exactly the average driver but it really seemed like turning the yoke would have it hitting my thighs/knees. Even adjusted all the way up, it seemed super low. I couldn't confirm because the car wasn't on so the wheel wouldn't turn though.
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Jun 2, 2022 16:30
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bird with big dick posted:I sat in an S with the yoke (first time I've seen the local service center with an S demo) and I know I'm six and a half feet tall so not exactly the average driver but it really seemed like turning the yoke would have it hitting my thighs/knees. Even adjusted all the way up, it seemed super low. I couldn't confirm because the car wasn't on so the wheel wouldn't turn though. Just make it have a steering ratio like an F1 car bing bong so simple! Pay me Elon
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Jun 2, 2022 16:52
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priznat posted:Just make it have a steering ratio like an F1 car bing bong so simple! Pay me Elon The Lexus RZ has a yoke with steer by wire and a variable ratio so they basically do give you an F1 ratio at low speeds so you can do parking lot maneuvers without going hand over hand then relaxes it at higher speeds to keep the car from feeling jittery. Yokes are still stupid but at least they put some thought into how to make theirs actually work.
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Jun 2, 2022 17:41
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YOLOsubmarine posted:The Lexus RZ has a yoke with steer by wire and a variable ratio so they basically do give you an F1 ratio at low speeds so you can do parking lot maneuvers without going hand over hand then relaxes it at higher speeds to keep the car from feeling jittery. Yeah it makes a lot of sense, the steering ratio changing on steer by wire, not the yokes. Those are silly.
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Jun 2, 2022 18:00
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God yes please. https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1532434634360901637
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Jun 2, 2022 20:39
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Man, i wonder if they can pull this off. I feel like dealerships have a lot more political pull than Ford.
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Jun 2, 2022 20:47
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Am i crazy or wasn’t this essentially announced already? Wasn’t Ford moving their electric cars to like Ford Blue or some other dumb name with the specific intent of being able to sell those cars directly?
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Jun 2, 2022 20:49
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I mean sure, he's saying what everyone wants to hear, but there's the little problem of dealer lobbies that are going to fight tooth and nail to prevent this and throw mountains at cash at everyone who can prevent this. It'll be 10 years before this might happen.
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Jun 2, 2022 20:50
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The Free Press article goes into a lot more detail
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Jun 2, 2022 20:54
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"BUT WHAT ABOUT NEGOTIATION" I scream into the darkness while paying 15% dealer markup, after having negotiated down from 20%
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Jun 2, 2022 21:54
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Question to anyone with an EV6 or Ionic5, I was watching a video on the GV60 and it has a sort of hidden "drift mode", which... while absolutely silly and pointless, made me curious if the other E-GMP cars have it too, or if its just a genesis thing. Do any of you know if you have this mode? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMj3d_uMQDg&t=264s
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Jun 2, 2022 22:21
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Speleothing posted:The Free Press article goes into a lot more detail Can someone post it or link past the paywall?
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Jun 2, 2022 22:32
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Also, ford doesn’t need to win this battle in every state. Nothing stopping them from clearing the hurdle in a few regions and then driving the car to the buyer for delivery. Hell I drove two states away to get my escape hybrid from a not-poo poo dealer, Id happily drive 6+ hours if it meant i could get ahold of a hybrid maverick or lightning tomorrow.
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Jun 2, 2022 22:37
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Can someone post it or link past the paywall? Ford CEO Jim Farley said Wednesday consumers should plan to see dramatic change in the near term as companies compete amid the shift to battery-operated vehicles. "We've got to go to nonnegotiated price. We've got to go to 100% online. There's no inventory (at dealerships), it goes directly to the customer. And 100% remote pickup and delivery," he said in New York during Bernstein's 38th Annual Strategic Decisions Conference streamed live. "Then we have this opportunity to use our physical presence to outperform" competitors, Farley said. "I think our dealers can do it. But the standards are going to be brutal. They're going to be very different than they are today." But that's not all. He teased that the company sees potentially huge profits in building an electric vehicle for ride-hailing services Lyft and Uber. "Shared mobility revenue will grow a lot," Farley said. "No one has ever built a product for them." Meanwhile, the way car companies generate revenue may change, too — like renting cars for limited use and allowing customers to pay per mile or per day, Farley said. He believes a Mustang Mach-E owner may want to use a Ford F-150 Lightning for the weekend. Farley forecast dramatic industry changes, including: "We're going to see very large consolidation and big changes." "The Chinese will become more important ... China EV makers, if you look at a $25,000 bill of materials for an EV in China, it's probably the best in the world. And I think they're incredibly undervalued. They haven't shown any interest in exporting other than Norway." "There's a shakeout coming. And I feel like that shakeout is going to favor many of the Chinese new players." "Old" automakers "absolutely will get consolidated. There will be some big winners, some people that transition, some won't. Many of the small players cannot afford to make this transition." Many automakers are not investing in the software and technology required to transition, and while old suppliers will consolidate, new suppliers will emerge, he said. "It's going to accelerate," Farley said. "With capital tightening, there are new constraints that will make the new player better. But some of them won't be able to afford to fulfill their ambitions. Because they can't raise capital." The next three or four years will shape the automotive future. Startups like Tesla will be "forced to solve tough problems like Tesla did" with limited access to money. Joint ventures, Farley said, too often end in failure. Acquisitions will play a key role. "Partnerships are hard. We've been in business 118 years, and we've probably had one partnership that worked really well, Ford Otosan in Turkey," Farley said. "These are really super hard things to do. Often, they come down to leaders, the character of the leaders, and if those leaders change and they retire or leave, the whole thing can fall apart." The opportunity for profit within the next few years can't be overstated, he said. "I think this is the most exciting kind of land grab of revenue in our industry since the Model T. I really believe that." At the same time, Farley said, "I believe our industry is definitely heading to a huge price war." The retail price war is already happening in China. Half of all electric vehicles in the world are sold there, and the most popular vehicle is an $8,000 van, he said. When the second quarter profit in 2021 came out from Tesla, "it totally changed my world. It was an epiphany. It was, like, the angels sung." It was confirmation that electric vehicles can make big money, Farley said. The electric vehicle maker established market dominance early, he noted. And CEO Elon Musk, who announced a year ago he was legally changing his title to "Technoking" of Tesla. "The magic of Tesla," Farley said, "is because they were capital constrained, they didn't have the money. They did things that we are too lazy to do." Ford estimates the company's distribution model is about $2,000 per vehicle more expensive than Tesla, including one-third being inventory sitting on dealer lots, one-third or $500 to $600 per vehicle on public advertising. Sales and reservations of the Ford F-150 Lightning and the Mustang Mach-E SUV all happened without advertising campaigns, Farley noted. Meanwhile, Ford is working now with its dealers to focus on specialized service in a changing market. Farley noted that Tesla has dealerships in Norway, unlike the U.S., because customers in Norway wanted more service not sales. Citing Target vs. online retailer Amazon, Farley noted that customers want in-person customer assistance. The brick-and-mortar company expanded services and added an important digital component to remain competitive. "Target could have gone away and didn't," he said. Farley emphasized that Ford plans to continue investing in gasoline-powered vehicles, noting that the Super Duty pickup trucks generate huge revenue for the company and battery technology isn't yet advanced enough to pivot. "If you're a Super Duty customer towing 10,000 pounds in Montana or on the north slope of Alaska," he said. "An electric vehicle is an awful solution, the batteries are too heavy." Still, Ford is spending $5 billion on battery electric vehicles in 2022, Ford chief financial officer John Lawler said in a taped message played at the conference. "The stakes are high but so are our ambitions." While Ford focuses on its iconic products, vehicles such as the Ford Edge and Escape will give way to Mustang and Bronco, Farley said. The sheer volume of money needed to compete in the electric vehicle industry will eliminate some competitors, Farley said. But he said Chinese EV makers are "incredibly undervalued." People drive shorter distances in China than in the U.S. or western Europe, so they don't need as big of a battery. "But the elegance of their engineering is something I'm very taken with," he said, noting that the companies get state support and are rewarded by the government for employing a lot of workers. Consumers in Asia are much more advanced than consumers in North America when it comes to digital experience in the vehicle. "I don't think they have the same pressure on economics that we do," Farley said. Ford is the largest employer of hourly workers in the auto industry in the U.S. Farley is rethinking how everything is done and has been done, having seen that Mach-E ads needed to be pulled because they were sold out for two years, he said. "Our model is messed up. We spend $600 or $700 on the vehicle to promote it and we spend nothing post-warranty on the customer experience. The problem is, on a parts business, which historically has been very profitable, we only get, maybe, only 10 or 20% of the customers come back to us." It would be better to provide customer experiences such as complimentary vehicle detailing and software updates, he said. But the key is building loyalty among current customers "instead of doing Super Bowl ads." He emphasized, "If you ever see Ford Motor Co. doing a Super Bowl ad on our electric vehicles, sell the stock." Farley emphasized the need to reduce spending on defect repairs. "We have to be radical on our quality," he said. In addition, Farley talked about cost savings related to reengineering battery chemistry so that it uses less nickel and cobalt — and more iron and phosphate, ingredients that are cheaper and more abundant. But all these changes require getting the best talent, including leaders such as Doug Field from Apple and Tesla, "even if they make 10 times what I do," Farley said. "I believe there's a way for us," he said. "I feel so much better than even six months ago, because I know, I know exactly what we have to do. It's down to execution."
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Jun 2, 2022 22:40
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Tom Guycot posted:Question to anyone with an EV6 or Ionic5, I was watching a video on the GV60 and it has a sort of hidden "drift mode", which... while absolutely silly and pointless, made me curious if the other E-GMP cars have it too, or if its just a genesis thing. Not on the Wind AWD, anyways (just checked). The GT one coming out soon probably will.
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Jun 2, 2022 22:50
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I like Farley so far. At least the few snippets I've seen
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Jun 2, 2022 22:56
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SpaceCadetBob posted:Can someone post it or link past the paywall? Silly Burrito posted:"I believe there's a way for us," he said. "I feel so much better than even six months ago, because I know, I know exactly what we have to do. It's down to execution." As long as Farley is ready to put dollars behind his words, this is good news from my perspective. I didn't like the way I felt sitting in the Mach-E, but what really sold me on the Model Y was everything leading up to sitting in the Mach-E. Getting to a test-drive on the MME was the quintessential dealership experience of wrong information, multiple phone calls, ignored messages, and wasting time sitting around while things happened in the manager's office. Nailing the execution is the last piece of the puzzle, assuming they have the battery production capacity.
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Jun 2, 2022 23:00
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drat I do love that GV60 in that yellow green. That drift mode is hilarious too, how many fender benders is that gonna cause 
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Jun 2, 2022 23:30
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Almost Smart posted:For a compact SUV, would you go for an Ioniq 5, Mustang Mach-E or Volkswagen ID4? There are also the Volvo C40 or XC40 Recharge. Though I haven't had a chance to try either, they seem to be a bit under the radar compared to these and are actually compact SUVs very similar in dimensions to a Jeep Patriot. I test drove an Ioniq 5 and an ID.4; while they are larger than they appear and are not bad, I feel like calling them SUVs is a stretch. Not sure about the Mach-E, but it has very low ground clearance and probably feels more like the Ioniq 5 does (more like a sedan / hatchback). Of the two, the ID.4 felt more like an SUV to me.
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Jun 3, 2022 03:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lefnp4HxaMs iX1 dropped. It's interesting but I think BMW made a massive mistake not bringing the iX3 to the US. I think a lot of i3 owners that were dabbling in electric with the i3 would have been very interested in the iX3 as our cars entered their natural upgrade cycle, it was a real chance to give BMW a early foothold in the US market while a lot of us moved to natural successors absent the iX3.
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Jun 3, 2022 05:19
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SlowBloke posted:Here in Italy, the starting price of the Touareg is 77k€ while the buzz is 56k€ . It's more expensive than a Tiguan(starts at 33k€) which isn't moving much volume due to death by thousand options pricing. VW is still selling the Touareg in Italy? Is it like the old Touareg/Cayenne? In America the Touareg flopped hard outside of a diehard cult fanbase because nobody wanted to pay Cayenne prices for a supercomplex, supercapable 00s-era German SUV wearing VW badges. They replaced it with the Tiguan and the Atlas, to much greater success, as the market simply wanted decently-driving crossover road cars with tall suspensions and zero off-road chops for way less money.
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Jun 3, 2022 06:45
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| # ? May 27, 2024 15:48 |
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Ok Comboomer posted:VW is still selling the Touareg in Italy? Is it like the old Touareg/Cayenne? https://www.volkswagen.it/it/modelli/touareg.html It's the biggest wolkswagen you can buy before moving to commercial vehicles. I think it's just a facelift from the 2018 model. I don't think it has much life in it, since it has gotten as big as a transit/ducato and it has mind bogglingly high taxes on it. People either go for smaller/cheaper models like the t-cross/t-roc or jump straight into the Porsche/Audi catalog. SlowBloke fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 07:48
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