|
Question: So, my mom passed away in October (gently caress you, cancer), and recently a first cousin of my dad's heard the news and reached out. Paul and I connected on Facebook, and we noticed a mutual friend in Matt, a guy I went to school with. Turns out he's somehow related to me: Me -> Paul (1st cousin once removed) -> Carla (his sister in law) -> Matt (her brother). What relation is Matt to me?
|
#
?
May 21, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
I am in truth sorry to hear about your mother. She lives on in you Your cousin's in-laws aren't genealogically related to you, but they might be family anyway. Genealogy is to me nerding around with old documents. To others it is a way to discover their history. To yet others, it is about alimony. Family is those around you, who you love, and they love you. Blood doesn't matter.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2022 21:14
|
|
|
I'm just curious as to where he falls in the cousin chart. Just for fun. Thank you though, for the kind words about my mom.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2022 21:28
|
|
|
i think your description of the relationship is the shortest possible description theres no word that covers "transitive in-lawry" in english
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
TITTIEKISSER69 posted:Question: Your first cousin once removed-in-law. Or in the immortal words of Dark Helmet from Spaceballs: 
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2022 05:53
|
|
|
Hey I finally got my passport search back from the US Gummint that put I in in 2019. They couldn't find but the index card that said my great-great grandfather had applied for and received a passport, and surmised that the application was randomly tossed in the early 80s when they had a space issue at the archives. Sigh. So much for that avenue of research. Oracle fucked around with this message at 00:31 on May 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 24, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
Just learned that my husband is eligible for Italian citizenship through descent. If we want to go through with this (which I do), it looks like I'm going to have to put a smidge more effort into that line depending on if my MIL or her sisters know when/where their parents got married. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised some of my husband's aunts haven't done this already, knowing them.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 22:30
|
|
|
Uh holy poo poo looks like I'm also eligible. I never really thought about it before lol. 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 23:04
|
|
|
Ugh, not only can I not find a record of my husband's great grandfather being born where we thought he was born, at least in the records that have been digitized, but it also looks like his great grandmother changed names at some point between birth and immigrating. I have a birth record in Italian, in the right place and on the right date, with the right parents' names and last name, but the wrong first names compared to everything from the passenger list when she first moved to the US and after. It's only the one birth record with no evidence of twins, and based on the fact that I can find the exact same thing for her sister (i.e., birth record with the right date/parents/etc. but different name) and brother I'm guessing it was a family thing? Maybe they all just started going by their confirmation names or something? Probably what I'll have to end up doing is figuring out which Italian church would have the baptism/confirmation/whatever records and see if they can send them to me.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
Emily Spinach posted:Ugh, not only can I not find a record of my husband's great grandfather being born where we thought he was born, at least in the records that have been digitized, but it also looks like his great grandmother changed names at some point between birth and immigrating. I have a birth record in Italian, in the right place and on the right date, with the right parents' names and last name, but the wrong first names compared to everything from the passenger list when she first moved to the US and after. It's only the one birth record with no evidence of twins, and based on the fact that I can find the exact same thing for her sister (i.e., birth record with the right date/parents/etc. but different name) and brother I'm guessing it was a family thing? Maybe they all just started going by their confirmation names or something? Maybe it was a family nickname they were all known by. See: https://www.girosole.com/italy-travel-info/italian-traditions/italian-names-and-nicknames/
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 22:31
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Maybe it was a family nickname they were all known by. See: Thanks, that is helpful, although they're different names (the one I'm trying to find was Maria Pasquina in Italy, Sabatina after she immigrated; her sister was Maria Isola (I might be misreading that...Maria something, shocking I know) but went by Barbara after immigrating).
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 22:41
|
|
|
Confirmation names sound like a reasonable supposition. Found someone else talking about how to go about that re citizenship: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/italiancitizenship/mother-added-confirmation-middle-name-to-offical-d-t12170.html But yea, I would probably see if I could find confirmation records. e:  https://twitter.com/ReclaimTheRecs/status/1522764097644683265 Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 08:57 on May 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 08:52
|
|
|
I'm guessing Utah, and FamilySearch?
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 12:40
|
|
|
TITTIEKISSER69 posted:I'm guessing Utah, and FamilySearch? FamilySearch are generally good about giving access to their films if the original archive doesn't have objections. I'm thinking Ancestry.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 13:01
|
|
|
I'm in one of my ancestral homelands for the long weekend and my uncle loaned me a 100 page spiral bound book of one branch of my family tree with a lot of old letters and tidbits (great great grandfather liked beans and cornbread!) and I'm super pumped to go through it. He also gave me a DVD of family photos that has over 500+ pictures! While I'm here I might go to the family cemetery but I'm not sure if it's worth it because it's pretty well documented. I want to see it but I don't know if it's worth going out of my way with my kids in tow. It's literally in the middle of nowhere but I'll be about 45 minutes away doing touristy stuff tomorrow. And I'm rarely this close... Coincidentally, the Airbnb I'm staying at is a mile from where my grandparents built their retirement home in the 70s. I never saw it because my grandpa died shortly after they moved and my grandma didn't want to stay out here by herself so she moved back to the city.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2022 04:42
|
|
|
It might be neat to see the cemetery, but I don't know how old your kids are so that might be more headache than it's worth. Fwiw last time I was in my hometown I dragged my husband to see some graves of my ancestors, including a couple that are on land now owned by a Wells Fargo.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2022 05:25
|
|
|
Jesus christ his mother only just told me that her grandfather was apparently abandoned as a baby. Anyone have any tips when it comes to vetting professional genealogists? Getting this squared away is going to take boots on the ground in Italy I think.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2022 02:08
|
|
|
I needed to hire a genealogist to check out some stuff for me at the UK National Archives at Kew, so I wrote up my question (ie. I am looking for this person, I know these facts, but lack this info) and wrote to 3-4 professionals that I found on UK websites. I requested that they tell me how they would go about answering the question, and asked for their quoted rates. Then I picked the one whose strategy seemed best thought out (which I guess was mostly belly-feel), and we agreed that he would take one hour to do preliminary searches (indexes, registers, etc) and report back, then we could agree on more hours from there. He reported back that he had been unable to find my guy in the registers and that it was unlikely that he would easily find more based on what we knew, so we packed it in at the one hour (it much later turned out the person I was trying to find was never in the UK lol). Paid via paypal & got a writeup for my own archive. I think it was a good call that I wrote multiple genealogists at the same time so I could compare their strategies & rates, cause when I look back in my emails some of them were pretty amateurish. The guy I chose was good though Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 08:11 on May 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2022 07:12
|
|
|
Emily Spinach posted:Jesus christ his mother only just told me that her grandfather was apparently abandoned as a baby. Anyone have any tips when it comes to vetting professional genealogists? Getting this squared away is going to take boots on the ground in Italy I think. I have used Avis Genealogy for Bavaria which is fairly close to Italy with really satisfactory results. The guy knows his stuff, speaks/reads several languages including old scripts, has a PhD in Medieval Studies and a BA in Archival Studies, and just an all-around pleasure to work with. I'm sure he could steer you towards a trustworthy colleague in Italy. That site also has a few promising leads to researchers as well (search on keyword 'Italy'). Oracle fucked around with this message at 16:45 on May 31, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
Thank you both, that's incredibly helpful.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2022 21:00
|
|
|
Looking at some interesting new old documents that cover my hometown  All the probates are written in a series of protocols, but for the period 1750–72, there also exist conceptuses (concepti?), ie. drafts written during the proceedings to then be copied to the protocols afterwards. However, a lot of the protocol-probates just say "the heirs which shall be listed herunder provided there is anything to inherit" for some reason (laziness? I haven't seen anything like it in other jurisdictions) — and since a lot of my ancestors were dirt poor, no heirs are listed. But I have a theory that the scribe got behind with the copying: There is a protocol that was started in 1773 but only has probates up to 1775 and then jumps to 1790, and the protocol covering 1775–90 is actually loose drafts that have been book-bound by order from a higher official. So maybe he was actually ordered to copy ALL outstanding drafts into protocols and when he got up to 1775, was like "listen guv I'll never finish at this rate... Let's just bind the rest into a book and I promise I'll keep up from now on..." So maaaaybe all the drafts include heirs, but those without inheritance were shortened for the protocols to save time while copying? That would also explain why the drafts were kept afterwards. Worth checking out anyway, so I took pictures of about 300 pages of drafts that I'm going to compare to the protocols. Why do I do this to myself lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 15:43
|
|
|
Carthag Tuek posted:Looking at some interesting new old documents that cover my hometown ya'll are nuts, but in the good way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
tbh I kinda both hope and not hope there's anything there. Those 300 pages are by thickness less than 5% of the pile of drafts so it'll be quite a task going through the whole mountain :P
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 21:12
|
|
|
Well, it's not an entirely worthless endeavor! I've only just sorted out the photos & removed duplicates (always take 2 photos of a page in case my hand shakes), but a name popped out at me. The draft is identical to the protocol & doesn't prove anything about my theory, but it said that the deceased had no children, and list her siblings, including her full-sister who was married to "NN in Hometown". NN was my great7-grandfather, and until now I only knew his name but not that of his wife. And since only the deceased & their spouse show up in the handwritten name indexes, the only way to spot these is by going page by page. So from her name and those of her full- and half-siblings, I was able to find at least two more generations back to great10, possibly great11!  Which also means I now have 60/64 of my great7s on that branch, all now going back to the late 1600s. Great8s are a bit worse (but still I have more than half, I think), but in that period there's a lot of migrations during the Scanian Wars so it's a bit messy and possibly impossible Bilirubin posted:Mother has been working a little more reliably through the Swedish householders rolls, and has been learning a ton. Apparently a large number of our ancestors died in the 1834 cholera outbreak. Even way out in Dalsland. Scary stuff! förresten, hur mår det med att lära svensk? du må mycket gärna säga om jag eller kanske andra ifrån skanditråden kan hjälpa med översättninger osv! Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
Carthag Tuek posted:Well, it's not an entirely worthless endeavor! drat, that's a lot. Congrats! The only lines I have that far back are the French-Canadian and Colonial and those are so well documented (if full of errors of people who don't read carefully through the years) that its pretty much cheating its so easy once you find the link ancestor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 00:46
|
|
|
Oracle posted:pretty much yeah i see it Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Jun 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 10:29
|
|
|
Oracle posted:drat, that's a lot. Congrats! The only lines I have that far back are the French-Canadian and Colonial and those are so well documented (if full of errors of people who don't read carefully through the years) that its pretty much cheating its so easy once you find the link ancestor. its only a lot so much as you can stick with it. otherwise its just fine. i rhink
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 10:55
|
|
|
For those of you with Swedes: because Sweden celebrates it's national day today, access to all Swedish records will be free on MyHeritage between 5-7 June. If I'm not mistaken it's basically the same records that are indexed at ArkivDigital? In any case, useful if you've got some troublesome missing Swedes and want to find them in some obscure congregation, hopefully with extensive gossipy notes by some profoundly judgmental village priest. I'm learning that I should keep a list of names specifically for temporary offers like these. Anyhow, praise unto glorious Gustav Vasa etc 
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
Seagull Fiasco posted:For those of you with Swedes: because Sweden celebrates it's national day today, access to all Swedish records will be free on MyHeritage between 5-7 June. If I'm not mistaken it's basically the same records that are indexed at ArkivDigital? In any case, useful if you've got some troublesome missing Swedes and want to find them in some obscure congregation, hopefully with extensive gossipy notes by some profoundly judgmental village priest. I'm learning that I should keep a list of names specifically for temporary offers like these. Anyhow, praise unto glorious Gustav Vasa etc I need more gossipy priests; my 2nd ggf was illegit and while I have a wonderfully fleshed out theory I can't get the DNA to verify it for several reasons (endogamy, daughtered out lines, other surprise NPEs on lines that would have confirmed/denied, you name it) and a nasty note about the bastard who knocked her up would help so much
|
|
#
?
Jun 6, 2022 20:00
|
|
|
Oracle posted:I need more gossipy priests; my 2nd ggf was illegit and while I have a wonderfully fleshed out theory I can't get the DNA to verify it for several reasons (endogamy, daughtered out lines, other surprise NPEs on lines that would have confirmed/denied, you name it) and a nasty note about the bastard who knocked her up would help so much My GGma was illegitimate as well. Is there a good website or tool to use to narrow down DNA matches? It's hard for me to tell which matches may be from her line. Also, I never ended up going to the family cemetery. It was 45 min out of the way and I didn't think my kids would appreciate it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
Gravitee posted:My GGma was illegitimate as well. Is there a good website or tool to use to narrow down DNA matches? It's hard for me to tell which matches may be from her line. So you're going to have to triangulate based on what you know of her mother's side of the family and any matches thereof. This may require you to build out trees for total strangers but as you identify and tag the matches and put them in the proper place it gets easier. If you use ancestry they have a nice tagging option that's color coded you can use. They also now have a tool where you can designate which 'side' your DNA comes from based on your known matches without your parents' DNA. I think its still a work in progress personally but my mom and dad were distinct enough that I could easily separate out which was which based on the ethnicity distribution. Have you tested your mom or are you just using your own? There's a couple tools you can use once you've gotten at least an idea of which matches are from which side (this assumes no endogamy, if you have her DNA, you can run it through 'are my parents related' tool on gedmatch to see whether or not something hinky happened in the recent past). You obviously know gedmatch and their triangulation service (its pay, but like a month is only 5 bucks or something and usually plenty enough time) but there's also What Are The Odds where you can plug in several cM amounts from various matches on your list and if you know how they're related to each other you can statistically calculate the percentage of probability of their relationship to you/your target person. There are a few other tools at that site you may find helpful (shared cM project tool, segment mapper etc)
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2022 21:38
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Good stuff MyHeritage has a good triangulation setup but beyond saying "here is where you overlap", I couldn't quite parse what to do with that info. I haven't had DNA tested with my mom, just my brother and I, so I think I just need to do more tree work on that specific branch. My dad and mom are completely different with their DNA so it's super easy to tell which side is which. My Mom is genetically Finnish from what I can tell based on mine and my brother's (we're both half-ish). I have A LOT of Finnish matches on MyHeritage, I think 90% of them are Finns, because I think Finns like to prove how Finn they are lol. This GGma only had one sister and I'm not sure what happened to her. The sister had one child that I knew but she never had kids. Now that I'm typing all this out, I think I need to dive into it more.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 16:01
|
|
|
Gravitee posted:MyHeritage has a good triangulation setup but beyond saying "here is where you overlap", I couldn't quite parse what to do with that info. I haven't had DNA tested with my mom, just my brother and I, so I think I just need to do more tree work on that specific branch. Test your mom if you're able, always test the oldest person you can on the line you're researching if they're amenable; its a nice cheat to be able to get further back. I had to test my 99 year old great-aunt in an effort to find out who her grandfather's father was and it did help confirm that her great-grandmother had married and had kids with another man after her ggf was born; a match I would not have been able to confirm without her DNA (and the fact the match was also into genealogy and online and still using an old email account tied to data he'd uploaded a decade ago). I don't match him at all; my sisters don't either, and I can't see her nephew's matches to him, but she did match him at the right distance (with just enough to neither confirm or deny the half-status sigh) and the fact her nephews matched him as well from two different sisters confirmed it wasn't just IBC (identical by chance). There may be some endogamy on that line as well, which argh, but the paper trail also matches up to that generation so it could be a combination of factors. Endogamy is the bane of my genetic genealogical existence, I swear. STOP MARRYING YOUR drat COUSINS PEOPLE. I'm on MyHeritage and yeah, lots of Europeans on there compared to ancestry. FTDNA has some as well if you're interested in that, its also the only commercial company that does mDNA/YDNA phenotyping so if you have a male line descendant for that illegitimate union try and test them (and hope the neighbor doesn't end up to be their grandpa's dad in the meantime, sigh) that could at least give you that much. Sadly my grandpa was the only boy and only had a girl so that line daughtered out and he died before DNA testing was remotely affordable. Maybe I can find an old hat with hair still on it or something someday... You'll want to map your DNA segments to the proper lines, that should help a lot. I know MyHeritage has a tool that'll generate a square chart of your clustered matches... ah, there. Go to DNA Tools and try using the Auto Clusters on your line.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 16:13
|
|
|
Speaking of Sweden, ArkivDigital has begun indexing flyttattester. They're certs that the priest provided to a person/family when they left a parish, which was then handed over at the new parish. It's a bit of a mix how many were preserved, but in some places they cover periods where the flyttningslängder (protocols) have been lost. In any case, they contain a lot of interesting stuff and an index will be super useful! The first batch has 31,425 names from Gotland. https://www.arkivdigital.se/blog/moving-in-and-moving-out-records/move-certificates-index-for-gotland (if the link doesn't work, you might need to switch languages with the American flag up top first) Maybe I can one day find my disappearing g3grandma 
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2022 06:07
|
|
|
Oracle posted:I need more gossipy priests; my 2nd ggf was illegit and while I have a wonderfully fleshed out theory I can't get the DNA to verify it for several reasons (endogamy, daughtered out lines, other surprise NPEs on lines that would have confirmed/denied, you name it) and a nasty note about the bastard who knocked her up would help so much I hear ya, I'm sort of in the same boat. My 2nd (maternal) ggf was also illegitimate, so was his (likely half-) brother and so far not a word on the father anywhere in the church records I have access to online. I've been in touch with distant cousins on the 2nd ggf half-brother side and on my grandfather's side (he had several brothers who in turn had several sons, so at least we've got that going for us) and I know they've done some DNA testing already without any luck. I'm tempted to give it a go as well though I'm not sure how much it will accomplish at this point. It's an interesting parish in that way. It was quite small and the priests kept close records on the morals of its members in almost every other way. I know who was a drunk, who feuded with who, who was considered untrustworthy, who got convicted of theft, and which women had illegitimate children and how many - and they sure did have quite a few. But never once is there a note on who the father is, unless he marries her and recognises the kid later. Three aunts of my unfortunate 2nd ggf also had multiple illegitimate children and if people's public trees are up to date, they too remain fatherless to this day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 11:42
|
|
|
Seagull Fiasco posted:I hear ya, I'm sort of in the same boat. My 2nd (maternal) ggf was also illegitimate, so was his (likely half-) brother and so far not a word on the father anywhere in the church records I have access to online. I've been in touch with distant cousins on the 2nd ggf half-brother side and on my grandfather's side (he had several brothers who in turn had several sons, so at least we've got that going for us) and I know they've done some DNA testing already without any luck. I'm tempted to give it a go as well though I'm not sure how much it will accomplish at this point. Are there maybe civic courts she could have sued for paternity in?
|
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2022 17:25
|
|
|
Link-Lives search has launched! https://link-lives.dk/danmark-bliver-foerende-indenfor-data-om-historiske-livsforloeb/ 64 million registrations of people living in Denmark from 1787 to 1901, which are being chained into life courses (ie the person in these censuses is identical to the person in this baptismal record, this marriage, and this burial). It is still a work in progress, but these are exciting times! Doesn't look like the search is available in English yet, but you can click "Søg" up top to try it in Danish.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 08:11
|
|
|
Also my cousin's 13yo kid just texted me for some "funny stories" for a school project 
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 15:09
|
|
|
Carthag Tuek posted:Also my cousin's 13yo kid just texted me for some "funny stories" for a school project I LOVE those calls.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 17:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
told her about the time two of her great-9 grandfathers got in a knife fight 300 years ago 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 05:54
|
|