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OwlFancier posted:Post a pic of the area you're working with, it might just be very inconveniently located, usually you pick a gravel patch that is located on flatter terrain but finding ways to get roads into hills for mines is one of the challenges. Here is the area I'm trying to tap into. Any time I flatten an area enough for a mine, the game tells me "hahah get hosed" when I try to hook it to a road.  E: why for some things, usually roads, do I have to select batch start construction and highlight it before I can assign it to a construction office? Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 17:58
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Demon_Corsair posted:This was it, thank you! Not sure I missed it. The easiest way is to just find a bare stone patch on flat ground. But if your map doesn't have those, also remember that working mechanisms don't require human input, so you don't have to worry about the whole walkable from bus stop/short trip back down thing; you can sink a pit directly in the rock face and have a cheap low-speed bridge coming directly out of it, send a fuel tanker up once every month or two, and have a fleet of dumptrucks circling between it and the nearest semiflat ground for a road aggregate unloader, then build a conveyor line from there down to a storage/road aggregate loader on level ground, and finally run dumpers from that to the processing plant on level ground and near a bus stop. IIRC the dump trucks will even refuel while at the quarry, but even if they don't you can just do a staggered overprovision (add a third and fourth to the route when the first two are at half tanks) and it'll continue to run at near-full capacity while half are meandering down to a gas station. E: Throw the quarry down almost at the bottom of the face, build a bridge to fill the gap so it's still on the face and not on flat ground itself, go from there. No quarried stone aggregate storage/conveyor setup even necessary, just put the gravel processor there. I'd also like to see, since there are already a range of wood-or-brick, brick-or-prefab, and prefab-or-concrete materials choices for residential in base and many buildings in mods, a use for quarried stone other than turning it into gravel. Maybe allow building of things that look somewhat like the map generator ones, or incorporate it into certain monuments. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 18:04
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Demon_Corsair posted:Here is the area I'm trying to tap into. Any time I flatten an area enough for a mine, the game tells me "hahah get hosed" when I try to hook it to a road. OK so the auto flattener you get with buildings will make literally just enough flat space for the building, and will happily leave the road connection hanging off a cliff. You will likely need to use the actual terraforming tools to flatten a little shelf out for some quarries and a road. It doesn't need to be massive but you do basically need to plan out where the road will go as well. Specifically there if you alread have a road set up, get the "flatten from center" tool and click on the road, then hold and drag over the stone to raise/lower that to the road height. Stone is very hard to terraform though so it may be easier to move the road back away from the stone a bit and flatten that terrain instead. Also the contour tool on F2 might help with visualizing how the terrain looks if you aren't using it already. Essentially you do generally need to actually prepare the ground using the terrain tools before laying out infrastructure. Constructions do need to be "started" rather than suspended I think before you build them. But they normally are placed "started" unless there is an option somewhere to toggle that? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 18:09
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Demon_Corsair posted:Here is the area I'm trying to tap into. Any time I flatten an area enough for a mine, the game tells me "hahah get hosed" when I try to hook it to a road. You should be able to just place that quarry right there and then try and create a small section of road out from it. Keep jiggling your mouse around until you find the exact millimeter position that turns the section yellow and use the road to flatten and place it down, then repeat until you get somewhere workable. Edit: I also like to flatten with a slightly larger building and then place the smaller one. sloppy portmanteau fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 18:14
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You usually really don’t need anything more than like 20% purity for a gravel mine either - the mine isn’t usually the throughput limiter and even if it is it’s easier to get two going. You might be able to shift them much closer to the edge of the rock.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:26
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Demon_Corsair posted:How the gently caress do you deal with hills and poo poo to get gravel up and running? This post is relevant to your interests: Anime Store Adventure posted:Switchbacks and You: An Anime Store Adventure.. Adventure
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Jun 3, 2022 18:26
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OwlFancier posted:OK so the auto flattener you get with buildings will make literally just enough flat space for the building, and will happily leave the road connection hanging off a cliff. You will likely need to use the actual terraforming tools to flatten a little shelf out for some quarries and a road. It doesn't need to be massive but you do basically need to plan out where the road will go as well. I knew about contour mode, but I didn't know how much it helped with leveling. I was able to get a road in! It is kind of annoying to constantly have to remove roads to level around it, but so far everything is mud so it's not a big deal. Next dumb question. Will my people take a bus to the grocery store or does it have to be walkable? I see a fully stocked grocery store and a lot of people complaining about not being able to get food and meat. And is a pub worth it? I see videos saying it's bad to have one because of alcoholism, but there are lots of happiness complaints. I'm on easy mood, so it doesn't really matter, but it feels weird to build my socialist utopia without any vodka.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:30
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As far as I understand, "passengers" as a variety of people waiting at stands, are people who are looking to go somewhere to get their needs fulfilled. You can, as far as I know, use transport to do this. However I would strongly suggest just building all your residential units in walking distance of all necessary services. It's just much easier and less likely to result in people starving when it snows and the roads are slow. I disable passengers on all stands and just use walking, not least because it helps reduce the number of lines you have to set up. Pubs are fine, I think. They push up alcohol addiction a bit, but as long as people are otherwise happy, they tend not to actually develop it I find. Alcoholism is more what you get when people are miserable and pubs are a major recreation source. I think, though, that if you run a dry republic people will eventually just stop wanting it? It's like religion, you can't build religious buildings and people will eventually stop wanting it if you give them other things to do. You will still get the complaints but I think they are just basically meaningless, as I believe if they aren't very religious then not being able to fulfil it doesn't mean much to them? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 18:33
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Mandoric posted:While we're on the subject of connectors, I wonder if it's possible to mod in utility tunnels, Prague style. Something with a notably higher labor and concrete/steel/electrical components cost than a single buried segment, and limited capacity on the water/sewer/heat ends than a full pipe, but less labor and more space-efficient/less finicky about lines crossing than burying all four (for now) services separately. Also coming back to this, I just remembered that prague also has a giant pneumatic tube system as well. Is there just some weird praguean obsession with overengineered infrastructure?
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Jun 3, 2022 19:04
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I mean there's probably a reason bohemian means arty and unconventional. A lot of engineering, art, and needful living intersecting there over the centuries.
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Jun 3, 2022 19:18
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OwlFancier posted:As far as I understand, "passengers" as a variety of people waiting at stands, are people who are looking to go somewhere to get their needs fulfilled. You can, as far as I know, use transport to do this. However I would strongly suggest just building all your residential units in walking distance of all necessary services. It's just much easier and less likely to result in people starving when it snows and the roads are slow. I disable passengers on all stands and just use walking, not least because it helps reduce the number of lines you have to set up. Any tips for making walkable areas? I think I'm always trying to pack too much stuff in one block. I just noticed that a chunk of my new block can't reach the school. Lazy soviets, can't walk more then 3 blocks? 300 drat meters following the worst paths and it's too far.  E: you can see the white pipe at the bottom of that screen shot. I can't just assign a construction company to it, I have to use the batch start construction option first. Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 21:40
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Demon_Corsair posted:Any tips for making walkable areas? I think I'm always trying to pack too much stuff in one block. I just noticed that a chunk of my new block can't reach the school. What you're missing is that road type and paths modify walk speed and effective distance. The "ideal" city has streets with sidewalks, but you can get away with just making sure you have gravel paths that are as close to a direct shot to the various services as possible, and you're going to want to use those for shortcuts even when you do have sidewalks.
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Jun 3, 2022 21:47
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Yeah, gravel path artery through the middle and connecting everything is almost a cheat. Also worth noting (someone PLEASE correct me if this isn't the case) emergency vehicles and construction vehicles will use walking paths, so anything that doesn't need restock from the distribution center (e.g., kindergarten, school, movie theater) doesn't actually need its road connection established to function.
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Jun 3, 2022 22:47
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Blowjob Overtime posted:Yeah, gravel path artery through the middle and connecting everything is almost a cheat. They use it if and only if there's no viable road connection, so you can build a residential building without requiring roads, but it will still prefer roads AIUI
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Jun 3, 2022 22:50
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Demon_Corsair posted:Any tips for making walkable areas? I think I'm always trying to pack too much stuff in one block. I just noticed that a chunk of my new block can't reach the school. If you leave before committing to them, they stick around as a white ghost instead of a yellow ghost. It needs to be yellow to assign to a CO. They've since added the batch start interface that starts both planned infrastructure as well as buildings you've paused. zedprime fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 22:58
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Demon_Corsair posted:E: you can see the white pipe at the bottom of that screen shot. I can't just assign a construction company to it, I have to use the batch start construction option first. Oh white stuff isn't actually built, it's planned, you have to press the button that confirms it and it will place it down in the world like a building.
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Jun 3, 2022 23:00
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Demon_Corsair posted:Any tips for making walkable areas? I think I'm always trying to pack too much stuff in one block. I just noticed that a chunk of my new block can't reach the school. Pro Tip: Citizens will walk to a bus stop within range, and are able to walk from there to any other job in range to the bus stop.
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Jun 3, 2022 23:41
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Demon_Corsair posted:Any tips for making walkable areas? I think I'm always trying to pack too much stuff in one block. I just noticed that a chunk of my new block can't reach the school. There's a tug of war between centralizing key services to avoid duplication, and avoiding downtown traffic. In general, kindergarten/store/entertainment/utilities need to be right in the middle, but also kindergartens eventually have to be duplicated at max density. As an illustration, here's my current not-quite-right-but-works experiment:  I've taken the word микрорайон too literally and built a quite literal man-hive, but it actually works decently well, with around 10k happy, healthy, employed citizens. Places for improvement are: * Remember to not crowd the main street with buildings so hard that I can't fit a footbridge--my people don't seem to mind playing chicken and, perhaps because it's designated a no heavy traffic area, nothing much gets slowed down, but it's irking. * Leave a corridor behind the mall to run an industrial connector to a warehouse, to further avoid a need for cargo down the middle * Ideally, eventually tear out main street and replace it with tram+footpaths. * Bus platforms can live in small suburban hexes as the 400m walk radius gives you room around halfway in to cover all of the neighbor plus that entire sextant-plus of the central district. Alternately, they can also exist offset in the main one; the new second platform to the south can feed from anything closer than the football pitch/hotel, and is used to segregate the mass amounts of traffic going to a dedicated commuter train to my steelworks. * Power usage for this density eventually requires 2x substations; I used one of the cheater look-ma-no-wires ones in the modpack due to spaghetti underfoot, but planned it's just a small switch connected to two normals. * Figure out how to sustain enough passenger throughput from suburbs in adjoining hexes. Then, put suburbs in adjoining hexes. The long diagonal of the hex is ~500m and sides are ~250m, meaning around 430m side-to-side. Electric doesn't really overlap, heat/sewage/water do.
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Jun 4, 2022 00:08
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OwlFancier posted:Oh white stuff isn't actually built, it's planned, you have to press the button that confirms it and it will place it down in the world like a building. But it only seems to apply to some things and not withers? Is that just because you frequently place and replace roads and pipes? Just to prevent all your construction crews from springing into action prematurely? Dammit, now I want to build everything on a hex.
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Jun 4, 2022 01:04
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It has its downsides. Apart from being fiddly to set up, curves mean road traffic around it has more distance to cover and does it at slower speeds, and of course overhead infrastructure where you have say 15m between support pillars gets real tetchy crossing roads at a 30° difference to it. Also the game's grid isn't exactly on 5-10m blocks so there's probably a little deformation that will show up eventually. That said, to do it: * Plan an asphalt or gravel road 245m in length. * Build a short dirt stub directly on from it to create an intersection that you can later build road directly to, rather than it curving to try to make a loop. {Sadly, dirt roads don't report distance so you can't just use them.) * Plan another non-instant road 245m in length from the opposite end, and also build a stub from it. * At 90° angles from the intersection, plan roads 215m in length. Give them stubs too. * From the ends of the paved portions of the shorter roads, go off each direction 127m at a 90° angle. Give them, as usual, stubs. * Now you should have a sort of Ж shape. Connect the paved-dirt intersections. If everything's even, each of these connections should be 245m. * Delete the stubs and any of the central pieces you don't want, then build. * Expand using the same process from there; each 60° internal angle just gets matched by another 60° internal angle across the road orthogonal to the grid and a １２０° internal angle across the road heterogonal to the grid. Sometimes you'll have 250s or 254s instead of 245s, the grid just doesn't play perfectly nice. I'd probably limit it to a 7-hex complex for a downtown to avoid skewage messing things up; this can presumably house 70k-100k people depending on how many you can funnel into services with local transit, which feels more than enough for a downtown/county seat-ish centerpiece city on a 16kmx16km rural map anyway. * Or delete the entire hex after using its yellow ghost to lay out an area safe to be fed by a single power substation. 
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Jun 4, 2022 02:04
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Demon_Corsair posted:But it only seems to apply to some things and not withers? Is that just because you frequently place and replace roads and pipes? Just to prevent all your construction crews from springing into action prematurely? It applies to roads, pipes, and wires, infrastructure, it does not apply to buildings because buildings are just one unit, it's to help facilitate planning out networks of infrastructure in advance. There is a toggle to make it so that stuff is automatically placed when drawn or held in planning mode until finalized.
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Jun 4, 2022 12:23
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Does anyone have tips at what I should be putting in various construction offices? Should I just do a standard mix of things or should my build for my my gravel processing be different then my city construction teams? I do have a specific road crew already. Any is there a way to see what vehicles would affect construction of a given building? E: lol snow is breaking this city. No one can get anywhere on the dirt roads, and no one seems to be getting on a bus to go work at the heating plant. Guess I know what roads I should have upgraded to gravel first... Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 16:29
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Demon_Corsair posted:Does anyone have tips at what I should be putting in various construction offices? Should I just do a standard mix of things or should my build for my my gravel processing be different then my city construction teams? I don’t know if there’s a specific list, but you can kind of deduce what uses what. Most buildings are going to use dumpers, excavators, cement trucks, open haulers, and cranes. (And busses, obviously.) some factories will need closed hulls for mechanical or electrical parts. Only roads use pavers or rollers. Buildings and roads never require excavators, pavers, rollers, or cranes, but they dramatically improve the construction speed. I tend to have a few construction offices in a small group and organize them as such: Office One: open haulers large enough to haul other vehicles Rollers, pavers excavators/bulldozers Tower cranes (if I have them) Then I check the box to only deliver mechanisms. This helps keep traffic in check so a roller isn’t puttering across half the map to go pave a road. If this isn’t a large office I sometimes have some “overflow” from this grouping at another office, ur I use two. You’ll want a decent amount of mechanisms, but more importantly you need a good chunk of open haulers too. Office two: Dumpers, Cement Mixers You need a whole lot of these if you’re building a lot, so they get their own little group. Office three: Busses, covered trucks, overflow You don’t need too many of these, usually, so this office often stocks whatever I feel I need more of out of the above groups. This organization just helps me see at s glance what’s being heavily used, the only downside is that I need to make sure buildings get targeted by all 3 offices else they’ll stall out for not having all the vehicles and thus resources they’ll need.
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Jun 4, 2022 16:48
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Demon_Corsair posted:Does anyone have tips at what I should be putting in various construction offices? Should I just do a standard mix of things or should my build for my my gravel processing be different then my city construction teams? I would say generally, it is useful to have 1 helicopter CO that is kitted purely for building roads, with pavers, rollers, and bulldozers, which can be assigned all over the map and be used to construct non-streetlight roads with no worker input required, albeit slowly. For normal construction depots however I would say I usually go a little heavier on dumpers, concrete trucks, and open hulls. You don't need much covered hull because that's only used to transport electronic/mechanical components which you need in very small amounts. You will generally be shifting a lot of gravel/asphalt/concrete and steel/prefab panels however, which use dumpers, mixers, and open hulls. Dumpers are also the lion's share of road building equipment for ground based construction offices too so if you have an office used mostly for roads it can still help with other buildings too. For actual building, excavators are used for the groundworks phase, then it usually moves on to cranes for raising the building. It is a very good idea IMO to have a couple of tower cranes because they massively accelerate that phase of construction when you supply workers as well. Also consider setting your offices to only deliver mechanisms via truck, as excavators driving down the road will slow everyone down. Bulldozers are also very useful for increasing the speed at which you can level terrain without paying for it. Also be aware that people will walk to nearby construction sites as if they were any other job, so for city expansion you generally do not need buses, people can just walk to the thing you're building. One or two can help, but they are low priority as you can quickly outpace material deliveries with only a few workers. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 17:31
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Apart from the other tips, many job phases are both unbalanced and internally gated; that is, they take x loads of resource class a and y loads of resource class b, and x is far larger than y; and further resource b works on resource a faster than it can be delivered. In general this always shows up for groundworks, which require copious asphalt and concrete, resources which are further rate-limited in a way most aren't. Many big buildings also require a few hundred tons of prefab or bricks onsite, which workers will prop up faster than they can be unloaded, and the longest connectors take surprising amounts of mechanical/electrical components. For this reason, a dedicated staffing CO is great. Give it only busses, and only set it to work a site once a buffer of materials are built up. Maybe put cranes here as well since they also rely on framing materials being onsite. Conversely, a highway CO can take advantage of all highway work being doable by mechanisms and not needing staff at all. And unlike most CO vehicles, these are slooooow rollers so you don't want them to take a trip to the gas station; segregating them all neatly in their own CO lets you DO fuel to it and only it, saving entries on that 20-site table. Aggregates can go with highway to begin with, they're needed for highway construction, but as you expand you'll want more dumpers than can fit with excavators and more pavers than can fit with dumpers. Framing also needs large bulks, though it's not as throughput-constrained at pickup as aggregates. Early engineering can work from the framing CO; engineering in general rarely justifies a full CO, maybe for long ski lift or power line hauls, so I often go through combined→one framing, one engineering→one framing, one combined as I scale up flatbeds faster than covered. You can also reduce total drive distances by keeping them near the sites they pull from, which suggests staffing near downtown and aggregates near the gravel complex; framing and engineering pull from multiple of resources that aren't particularly close to each other on the map, so are best placed in a central warehouse district that pulls via DO from each of gravel/iron/coal/oil districts during downtime.
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Jun 4, 2022 17:59
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I usually set up a depot with the asphalt and concrete plants, a big gravel storage connected to those plants and a loader, and an open storage and warehouse in there somewhere. For starters you can just buy stuff in to fill it, as time goes on you can connect it to your domestic industries with truck lines (or more likely a DO) as you bring them online. Or if you're going strict cosmonaut you can use a DO from the start and shift it over to domestic production sources. By the time you're setting up your own industries you will probably need more COs so you don't need to worry, generally, about making your first CO/depot super high throughput, later ones you can sprawl out a bit and do things like dedicated rail connections for stuff, and big helicopter pads as well, but to start with it does help to have all the sources near the CO itself and to connect the concrete/asphalt up to a gravel storage and to add a dedicated loader so you can load gravel faster. Just streamlines it a lot.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:36
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I’ve been thinking about doing it this way for my next republic. I’m probably going to do another easy mode one but maybe turn on electricity and fuel just to have a little more to worry about. I remember seeing your little compounds in an LP and really liking the idea so I am going g to go right and nick it.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:32
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I would say it's not really much harder to do strict cosmonaut, the main issue is really just that because it's not much harder, you keep wondering why you bother and using the autobuyer. I think once they let you turn off the buy with cash option it will be more interesting. Mostly you just need to remember to set up DOs for everything.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:48
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Ok but some of the other things affect quite a bit in unexpected and frustrating ways. I strongly recommend turning fire no higher than the lowest setting, it's just a giant frustration afaic.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:12
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Yeah fire is just... do you have fire station y/n, frankly you could probably turn it off, honestly? It's probably one of the least interesting mechanics.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:28
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Fire keeps me honest away from doing really egregious exclave building. Can make cool looking ranger stations dotted through your backwoods to cover remote oil or even small mining communities. Ultimately your choice in difficulty settings, personal conduct, and mods is whatever helps you slip into the story telling mindset of your constructions. You need a little pain for this game to just not be More Complicated Tropico (or Extra Fiddly Skylines, sometimes) and turn into where you're really proud of your city centers and or industrialplexes for getting over some pain point. I am also the crazy person who thinks fully elevated conveyors look bad and try to avoid them until its necessary. On the flip side I am really wary about ever turning on heat, water, etc. until I feel ready (I never actually end up feeling ready) because its very all or nothing collapse points so who am I to talk about avoiding paint points by difficulty settings.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:37
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Having a bus only construction office is genius. I was losing so much time to buses picking workers up when I was trying to build out a remote quarry. What's the best way to manage an industry that I want to supply domestically and export any surplus. Is there a way to set a limit to keep a set amount amd export the rest?
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Jun 4, 2022 21:16
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Demon_Corsair posted:Having a bus only construction office is genius. I was losing so much time to buses picking workers up when I was trying to build out a remote quarry. Yes, that is how distribution offices work, each office can be set to pick up only when the source is above a certain fullness. You can also, if you like, set up a route to pick up from the primary output storage of the industry, attempt to fill a "reserve" storage location that will be your domestic stockpile, and then go to the border and sell any remaining cargo.
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Jun 4, 2022 21:39
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Demon_Corsair posted:What's the best way to manage an industry that I want to supply domestically and export any surplus. Is there a way to set a limit to keep a set amount amd export the rest? This is maybe the greatest use for distribution offices. Distro offices can be set to "only load from this source when greater than a set percentage." You can use this to basically have them only grab when you're over a certain percentage. The only major pitfall with this method, though, is if you're doing it with say food and run out of crops way too soon because you exported more than what was *actually* surplus, it was just a momentary surplus. You can also use conveyor priorities: The storages in the back stay full, the ones in the foreground fill up afterward and export directly to the dock. 
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Jun 4, 2022 21:41
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Oh yeah conveyor priorities are really good for that too if you're doing something that uses conveyors, basically a built in version of the two-step export route I mentioned above.
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Jun 4, 2022 21:43
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Yeah by “easy mode” I mean turning off a bunch of needs and turning down fires and stuff. I go cosmonautish by default because it’s way more fun that way!
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Jun 4, 2022 22:39
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The only real mechanical influence of fire is holding down the cash potential of a fully-automated oil or bauxite field off in metaphorical (possibly literal?) Siberia--no workers means no firefighters means an occasional cash-rebuilding tax. It makes me inordinately proud, though, when I hear a sudden whop-whop-whop and some hero of the people is off to save his simulated comrades. (Longterm, maybe post-1.0 even, I'd love to see a degradation mechanic to encourage a choice between repairing in place or redeveloping my oldest stuff; fire, governed by the speed of response, could provide this. It'd also be nice to be able to build buildings pre-degraded at a lower cost to get big industries off the ground for little settlements.)
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Jun 4, 2022 22:58
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How do you find a miniscule break in a road that has just been upgraded? I appear to have upgraded every section of a road, except no one will drive on it. And since it looks done, I deleted the dirt access road and now my economy has ground to a halt. E: OK, now I'm even more confused. I put the diet access road back and now the gravel road is perfectly fine. Wtf?  I watched this truck take the gravel side to the border, but it takes the dirt road back. I'm going to gravel the other side asap, but why wouldn't the truck take the faster road? Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 23:04
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Anime Store Adventure posted:
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Jun 4, 2022 23:05
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Demon_Corsair posted:How do you find a miniscule break in a road that has just been upgraded? I appear to have upgraded every section of a road, except no one will drive on it. Mighty BZ-252 dumper of moderately-great uncleland is driven at maximum speed of 300 border versta per day. Humble yet dedicated people's road has speed limit also of 300 border versta per day. Considerate Comrade Driver blah blah blah the Perfect Strangers-tier gimmick accent has already stopped being funny anyway. (Particular slow vehicles will preferentially run on roads they don't cap out on in order to improve traffic on roads where others can run faster. The BZ-252 exactly matches dirt roads anyway, so given at worst nearly equal lengths it will seek out dirt side roads to take; most medium-to-large haulers will do this for gravel.)
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Jun 5, 2022 00:54
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