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Umbreon posted:Holistic analysis is cool and BSG already does a bunch of that Hahahahha good one
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May 16, 2022 03:42
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I am mediocre, so everyone else must be. I'm mediocre but I've haven't run a raid without a slick and a reap in three months
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May 16, 2022 06:13
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A lot of cheaters tonight. Shot through walls while motionless and silent by people who had never even seen me.
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May 16, 2022 06:45
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AlternateAccount posted:A lot of cheaters tonight. Shot through walls while motionless and silent by people who had never even seen me. map knowledge 
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May 16, 2022 19:21
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Shooting one shot into a random room right into my head at the resort where Id ducked in two minutes before 100% outside their sight? No.
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May 18, 2022 04:42
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AlternateAccount posted:Shooting one shot into a random room right into my head at the resort where Id ducked in two minutes before 100% outside their sight? It seems improbable but yes.
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May 18, 2022 15:44
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AlternateAccount posted:Shooting one shot into a random room right into my head at the resort where Id ducked in two minutes before 100% outside their sight? There are a lot of people ITT who will tell you that it's a skill issue and no one cheats in tarkov; but the fact that the devs are spending so much of their time on anticheat measures combined with the publicly available stats on various cheating websites/subscription services don't seem to jive with that.
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May 19, 2022 05:46
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110% of players without EoD that kill you are cheaters, probably, maybe, hopefully
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May 19, 2022 06:33
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Shumagorath posted:How is the game even playable under the load you're describing? I don't see how lag prevents detecting the vacuum hack to extremely high certainty, either. If one player loots >X% of the cash value of the map, and several of those transfers occur near-simultaneously at extreme physical separation, and they do it consistently raid to raid, no one needs to review that. If you run the stats once the raid ends and there's a coherent timeline, then all of the timing issues you're describing go away. It's basically unplayable but that sure as gently caress doesn't stop people from trying to play anyway. I don't know how long you've been playing, but I've experienced the servers going through exactly that more than once, and it was always a hilarious hell to play through. Under situations like that, everyone's clients are reporting all kinds of impossible numbers that would set off heuristics/sanity checks, which is fine currently because all that does is flag an account at best. You also need to be reminded that most hackers are not the instant vacuum around everything in the map hackers, they simply turn on wall hacks and know the loot is and go over to it while being able to see whoever they want and avoid anybody(or kill them). Even if we had your magical solution in place, at best it's only going to ban a small portion of hackers and take a hell of a lot of innocents with them. If you're going to take anything out of this conversation, I want you to understand that FPS games are innately vulnerable to hackers because they have to place so much trust in the client to facilitate a smooth experience, and thousands of online FPS games have all been trying different solutions and have still not found the permanent answer. BSG isn't going to find that answer either, and your suggestions have been tried before, I promise. If they worked and things really were that easy, everyone would be doing it already.
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May 19, 2022 10:57
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You have to remember that cheating is way more rampant because people RMT this game. There is also no kill cam so you’ll never know if you just did something stupid or not. I mean there is plenty of cheating in popular shooters like Warzone where there is no monetary gain unless you are a popular streamer, so now you gotta triple that number.
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May 19, 2022 14:45
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Yeah, veritas and jessekazaam did a 'pogcast' ep about it a few days ago and veritas suggested the actual solution (don't send the contents of every bag to the client at the beginning, only send the contents to the client when someone searches the containers) and nikkita/bsg basically said no they won't implement it because it would require them to rework the looting system entirely and they'd rather spend the effort on other poo poo and make the hamfisted and possibly ineffective solutions we see today.
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May 19, 2022 19:35
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Bohemian Nights posted:110% of players without EoD that kill you are cheaters, probably, maybe, hopefully EoD?
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May 19, 2022 20:45
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Edge of Darkness edition. Aka Bad With Money Edition. Just the most expensive form of the game. Comes with plenty of perks.
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May 19, 2022 20:49
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In a game where they don’t generate additional revenue after the first purchase, banning Chinese barcode users for hacking only to sell them a new account later is the business model.
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May 19, 2022 22:46
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Cheating is way more rampant in online games than people want to admit. Warzone had a number of cheat producers consistently citing 10-20% as the percentage of the population that was cheating. Let's say they were doubling the real number in an attempt to pressure potential customers into justifying cheating... 5-10% is still an absolutely huge number of players. In games like tarkov or Warzone you can just use information based cheats like Walls / radar hacks and still have an absolutely massive advantage that will likely go undetected forever, as long as you're smart about how you use them. Cheating is a permanent fixture of online games these days. You just have to accept it. There's so much money at stake for both the producers and the players -- Especially with the rise of pay-to-enter cash prize tournaments and money made via streaming. Just take your licks and move on cos it's a game.
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May 20, 2022 14:19
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Fart Car '97 posted:Cheating is a permanent fixture of online games these days. You just have to accept it. There's so much money at stake for both the producers and the players -- Especially with the rise of pay-to-enter cash prize tournaments and money made via streaming. Just take your licks and move on cos it's a game. I'm somewhat convinced that where money (competitive, not RMT) is on the line, the rate of cheating is lower than people expect, and that it is in less competitive tiers where cheating is way more rampant. My reasoning comes more or less from having played some games competitively and for money in the past, and having dealt with cheating investigations and that sort of thing for a long time, and seeing outcomes over time. It wasn't too uncommon to have some 'rising star' turn out to be entirely fake, and it was ludicrously common to have "talented" pubstars be full of poo poo - but long-time fixtures would show up on LAN and be able to play on essentially strange computers with nothing but their mice (and even those checked out) and be fine). Similarly looking at high-profile streamers, I see little out of the ordinary. Some are very good, some are strictly mediocre and play with other strong players. None of them seem suspicious. But no-name streamers that are clearly looking at a 3rd party tool or that simply seem to score more hits than the quality of their aim predicts etc are numerous. Likewise, I've noticed the semi-casual level of gaming has gotten harder and less predictable. I have to actually be awake to not die sometimes even in scrubby games like WZ, because 1/10 people could despite no indications otherwise (cracked movement, aggro squad etc.) suddenly turn out to shoot like absolute monsters. This is kind of a departure from the past where scrubs overall just felt more consistent. Of course none of this is quantitative, but it does lead me to suspect that with the rise in popularity of online games, cheating by casual players has been on the rise as well. Anyway, Tarkov, having virtually only a small, informal semi-competitive scene, is probably riddled with casual cheaters beyond belief. And it not being a focus of the game's architecture to prevent cheating just kind of means it'll be here forever. Edit: WZ is extra hard to tell though because of the allowance for low-recoiled guns and controller autoaim (particularly with non-factory controllers/input) can make people jump between having trouble tracking to railing 6 shots into your dome depending on more-or-less luck of the draw. Idiot Doom Spiral fucked around with this message at 09:00 on May 21, 2022 |
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May 21, 2022 08:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEbJjN6rtQE Tarkov Arena trailer. Looks like they put a lot more effort into the map(s?) than I was expecting.
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Jun 3, 2022 21:52
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It just looks like a COD game. Hopefully it'll pull the PVP shift-w players out of most servers and leave me to loot in peace. Lol
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Jun 3, 2022 22:02
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I thought it wasn't your pmc pool?
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Jun 3, 2022 22:05
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I thought it wasn't your pmc pool? I missed it since it's in the description and not the actual video, but apparently it's a standalone game with separate progression. EoD gets it free but it'll be a separate purchase for everyone else.
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Jun 3, 2022 22:07
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Ah, I didn't realize it was entirely separate. I think the last I heard about the game mode they were talking about players farming for gear in raid to then use in arena mode.
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Jun 3, 2022 22:10
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Dr_0ctag0n posted:Ah, I didn't realize it was entirely separate. I think the last I heard about the game mode they were talking about players farming for gear in raid to then use in arena mode. Is this factory? 🦋
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Jun 3, 2022 22:19
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Phoix posted:I missed it since it's in the description and not the actual video, but apparently it's a standalone game with separate progression. EoD gets it free but it'll be a separate purchase for everyone else. EoD paying dividends, hot drat.
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Jun 4, 2022 03:17
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I wish it'd be just a mode in the same game. It is gonna use same assets and files, why make it separate?
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Jun 4, 2022 03:38
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it feels weirdly misplaced to me, but I feel the same way about in-raid traders and map connectivity and basically everything they're planning to do with the game so I'm just kinda shrugging and watching to see how it goes.
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Jun 4, 2022 04:21
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I'm at least interested, the biggest reason I fell off of Tarkov was the whole ability disparity if you weren't willing to play a wipe like a job and the shooting in the game remains world class. I still think armor and medical and a billion other Tarkov things really get in the way of Shooting A Man but who knows, maybe CoD Tarkov is in fact what I want.
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Jun 4, 2022 05:57
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The only thing that interest me about it is that if the mechanics are identical, it lets me practice a lot more a lot faster. It’s easy to learn from fights but you just can’t jump right back in easily.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:11
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Vahakyla posted:I wish it'd be just a mode in the same game. It is gonna use same assets and files, why make it separate? Maybe it's a play towards e-sports? Something more match oriented instead of the pvpve-stalker collectathon that it is.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:03
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Meatlong Football posted:Maybe it's a play towards e-sports? Something more match oriented instead of the pvpve-stalker collectathon that it is. While I wouldn't put it past them to try an e-sports push I think it's more likely just "Some people really like shooting people and some people really like loot, why not try and please both masters?" Especially since co-op PvE only is something people have been asking for for a long time, though "You get co-op PvE but you lose the loot aspect" is a bit of a monkey's paw. Alternatively it's not any particularly good reason and Nikita just wants a CoD mode. 
Orv fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 19:42
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Orv posted:While I wouldn't put it past them to try an e-sports push I think it's more likely just "Some people really like shooting people and some people really like loot, why not try and please both masters?" Especially since co-op PvE only is something people have been asking for for a long time, though "You get co-op PvE but you lose the loot aspect" is a bit of a monkey's paw. Yeah it's pretty obvious that their vision for the main game involves a lot less firefights than what a lot of people want. So making a game mode that caters to those people specifically allows them to do more of what they want with the main game.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:45
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Meatlong Football posted:Maybe it's a play towards e-sports? Something more match oriented instead of the pvpve-stalker collectathon that it is. I doubt they'll be willing to keep up with updating, balancing and maintaining the game on the level that an esports title requires but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. They're clearly quite dedicated to the MMOShooter game as it currently exists but my friends and I have always maintained that Tarkov has the best fundamental hardcore shooter mechanics in the industry right now so I very much welcome Arena, as I'm sure many others would. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Arena eventually surpassed traditional Tarkov's popularity, I really think the mechanics are that good.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:04
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Vahakyla posted:I wish it'd be just a mode in the same game. It is gonna use same assets and files, why make it separate? Also the answer to this is probably A. money and B. eyes on. I can handily imagine the number of people who have tried Tarkov and gone "Okay this is cool but I just kinda wanna do the shooting and the [looting/gear/wipe] aspect just drives me away" and if they just put a button in the main game that says Arena on it they'll get way less press and less of those people will return to try it out than if they release a whole new thing. Whether they're playing on the fact that the main game is still in 'beta' or whatever their trick here is, it's not a bad idea. And then also yeah, it makes them more money. Depending on how they price Arena they'll likely manage around half an EoD's worth of money out of the people who bought base edition Tarkov originally and come back to try Arena.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:34
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The Clap posted:I doubt they'll be willing to keep up with updating, balancing and maintaining the game on the level that an esports title requires but who knows, maybe I'm wrong. They're clearly quite dedicated to the MMOShooter game as it currently exists but my friends and I have always maintained that Tarkov has the best fundamental hardcore shooter mechanics in the industry right now so I very much welcome Arena, as I'm sure many others would. Call of duty would have things like hotscan sniper rifles for months. Lmao Rofl Roflmao
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Jun 4, 2022 21:03
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I have a low amount of faith that BSG can both make a good standalone shooter and not gently caress up or totally neglect Tarkov proper. With that said the concept honestly sounds pretty fun. Tarkov has hands down the best shooting and customization mechanics there are, and applying this to a different type of game could be fun as hell. I’d they do it straight up “fast respawns small maps” COD style it will probably be trash - that sort of game requires a very specific style of map design that I think is so wildly different from EFT that it would be tough to pull off. I think it is most likely that we get this, and it’s middling. Alternatively, something more open and objective based, similar to Battlefield, Rising Storm 2, or Insurgency could own. Those games are all on the “faster paced, meat grinder, objective based” side of things where you still are very much more on the arcade-y side of things but it tracks better with the current weapon design in Tarkov.
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Jun 4, 2022 22:00
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causticBeet posted:I have a low amount of faith that BSG can both make a good standalone shooter and not gently caress up or totally neglect Tarkov proper. With that said the concept honestly sounds pretty fun. Tarkov has hands down the best shooting and customization mechanics there are, and applying this to a different type of game could be fun as hell. Parts of the map in the Arena trailer are just straight lifted from CoD maps from the last decade which is extremely funny. Not that they'll necessarily be able to put it into the most cohesive package but with a few rough edges here and there I'd say Tarkov's level design delivers really interesting firefights that mostly get broken down by abuse of the game's other mechanics, notably the skill system. Doesn't translate directly to a more arena style map design but I'd have a little more faith because of that. I just straight up don't think their system could handle even a Rising Storm level number of people but I agree that a more open objective thing might be fun, we'll see whether it just stays shootmans or not.
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Jun 4, 2022 23:16
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It will be nice to be able to practice shooting & fighting without having the time sink of a raid attached to it
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Jun 5, 2022 00:44
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If it's being sold as a separate product that launches separately, it's only a matter of time until the gameplay in the arena diverges from the gameplay in Tarkov. The Tarkov patches won't be ported back to arena, that would be a logistical nightmare, and the needs of an arena shooter are very different from those of a game like Tarkov's. I am not convinced that the arena will be a good place to get good at normal Tarkov.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:52
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aniviron posted:The Tarkov patches won't be ported back to arena, that would be a logistical nightmare, and the needs of an arena shooter are very different from those of a game like Tarkov's. If BSG were a sane company, sure.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:52
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Is there even any other shooter that at least measures ammo by magazines as god intended? I was interested in that Tarkov-like Marauders but it does that “infinite mags as long as you have bullets” which sucks.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:27
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Squad does but it's also a distinctly different type of shooter, being a 50v50 combined arms shooter with two hour rounds and a FOB building and resupply resource system.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:30
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