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Koos Group posted:That is true and as such I've probed'em. Free Discendo Vox
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Jun 4, 2022 20:29
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theCalamity posted:One doesn't have to make guesses, although from the context, it's pretty obvious. One could simply ask for clarification instead of saying that the posters have "a level of cultivated ignorance of current events that borders on a lack of object permanence." I agree that it's preferable, but communication is a multi-way lane. If someone isn't sure what another is saying, they could simply ask. If they don't answer, just move on. If someone knows they're posting vague stuff that will require clarification in order to actually discuss, why not provide that clarification in the first place? It's not really that hard to just add an extra sentence or two explaining what the hell they're talking about. Whether it's vagueposted one-liners intended only for those who already agree, sarcastically saying the exact opposite of what you mean, or just shooting snippy questions at people, posting just to try to get people to ask you what you mean is a pretty poor substitute for just saying what you mean in the first place. Bar Ran Dun posted:There is a persistent failure by the democrats to communicate what they are doing. This is combined with major defeats internally from two D senators. Add to this that they are attempting to sell the economy as good when the experience of the economy by many people is food is becoming overly expensive and I can’t afford rent or a house. It's not really surprising that some Dems are trying to point the economy as good. As campaign trail messages go, "the economy dropped into the toilet on our watch and we weren't able to do anything about it, but if you reelect us, we'll be totally be able to fix things after the election even though we couldn't fix them before the election" is a tough one to sell to voters, regardless of whether it's true or not. It's no surprise that they'd like to talk about unemployment trending down and wages trending up, and not just the bad inflation news.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:54
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Bellmaker posted:I regret to inform everyone that the Pizza Hut Book It! literacy program is now woke: It's especially funny because I think Book It! is older than Jack Posobiec is.
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Jun 4, 2022 21:00
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Main Paineframe posted:It's not really surprising that some Dems are trying to point the economy as good. As campaign trail messages go, "the economy dropped into the toilet on our watch and we weren't able to do anything about it, but if you reelect us, we'll be totally be able to fix things after the election even though we couldn't fix them before the election" is a tough one to sell to voters, regardless of whether it's true or not. It's no surprise that they'd like to talk about unemployment trending down and wages trending up, and not just the bad inflation news. Yeah for sure but the problem with only wanting to talk about the things that make you look good are that the people you're talking to can see how bad things are and it makes you look like, not to put too fine a point on it, a lying, out of touch rear end in a top hat. It doesn't matter how good the economy is if people are still hurting and claiming otherwise is just re-running "america is already great" probably to similar results. If these losers wanted to actually try and win for once they'd be out there acknowledging things are bad, it's true, they're bad all over the world, and here are the concrete actions we will take to make them better. of course that would require Dems to actually want to take power and use it
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Jun 4, 2022 22:43
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Koos Group posted:That is true and as such I've probed'em. Personally I think that conflating disagreement with abuse was the more offensive post than just calling posters dumb but I guess maybe that isn't against the written rules?
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Jun 4, 2022 23:23
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Main Paineframe posted:If someone knows they're posting vague stuff that will require clarification in order to actually discuss, why not provide that clarification in the first place? It's not really that hard to just add an extra sentence or two explaining what the hell they're talking about. Whether it's vagueposted one-liners intended only for those who already agree, sarcastically saying the exact opposite of what you mean, or just shooting snippy questions at people, posting just to try to get people to ask you what you mean is a pretty poor substitute for just saying what you mean in the first place. I’ll state the obvious: it’s because posting vague claims makes it easy to justify the position of Democrats aren’t any better than Republicans
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Jun 4, 2022 23:43
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some plague rats posted:Yeah for sure but the problem with only wanting to talk about the things that make you look good are that the people you're talking to can see how bad things are and it makes you look like, not to put too fine a point on it, a lying, out of touch rear end in a top hat. It doesn't matter how good the economy is if people are still hurting and claiming otherwise is just re-running "america is already great" probably to similar results. There's hope on the horizon, with Harvey Weinstein advisor & PR pro Anita Dunn rumored to be taking over from Ron Klain as chief of staff sometime soon. Since messaging seems to be such an overarching concern to the administration, and since the White House has been doing such a lousy job at it, surely an ace at it like Dunn will be able to turn things around. MODS: Let me know if I need to provide sources for these rumors & I'll edit them in.  eta per mod directive: https://www.businessinsider.nl/biden-white-house-chief-of-staff-ron-klain-is-rumored-to-be-leaving-after-the-2022-midterm-elections-report/ https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-white-house-adrift-rcna30121 Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 23:59
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Discendo Vox posted:This is a level of cultivated ignorance of current events that borders on a lack of object permanence. It takes seconds with Google to find out the various things the DoJ is actually doing. Garland was meeting with his EU counterpart yesterday over coordinated responses to the invasion of Ukraine. whats he doin to help citizens here though (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 5, 2022 00:17
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Willa Rogers posted:There's hope on the horizon, with Harvey Weinstein advisor & PR pro Anita Dunn rumored to be taking over from Ron Klain as chief of staff sometime soon. Okay, I'll grant you the Weinstein thing was a bust, bit of a mark on her record, but he was a lost cause from the start. In comparison, look at her success running the catch-and-kill op that suppressed the Tara Reade story- Joe Biden is president! Never let it be said the Dems don't recognize results
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Jun 5, 2022 00:22
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some plague rats posted:Okay, I'll grant you the Weinstein thing was a bust, bit of a mark on her record, but he was a lost cause from the start. In comparison, look at her success running the catch-and-kill op that suppressed the Tara Reade story- Joe Biden is president! Never let it be said the Dems don't recognize results I think you might be confusing something. "Catch and kill" means they bought the exclusive rights to the story from the individual, had them sign an NDA, and then declined to release the story. That never happened.
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Jun 5, 2022 00:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I think you might be confusing something. "Catch and kill" means they bought the exclusive rights to the story from the individual, had them sign an NDA, and then declined to release the story. That never happened. I was using that in a loose sense, referring less to that specific method than the general setting up of a cul-de-sac that hoovers up all the money and attention to make themselves the only game in town for the metoo movement while refusing to help anyone who makes their team look bad, which there isn't such a snappy term for. You're correct that catch-and-kill wasn't the specific method they used, but I meant it more in an effect sense than an operational one.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:17
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Personally I think that conflating disagreement with abuse was the more offensive post than just calling posters dumb but I guess maybe that isn't against the written rules? this has come up before, I believe Discendo Vox is using the first definition of "abuse" below: Oxford English Dictionary posted:1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse. and not conflating disagreement with doing violence to someone: quote:2. treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly. Koos has asked D&D to use common dictionary definitions to avoid confusion. In the future, Vox might consider using a synonym for the sake of clarity.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:23
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"The Economy" is poo poo and has been for a good long while now. I don't think it ever truly rebounded from 2008 unless my eyes are lying. You can give me all the traditional metrics you want but if none of that has any real positive impact on most people, it's 100% meaningless. And it's built with a house of cards on a thin pane of glass. Don't show me stick market gains and unemployment rates when everyone I know is leveraged up to their rear end and riding credit. It's like saying that actually your 4-12 football team is really good because they gained a lot of yards or set attendance records so please ignore all the games we're losing. Any democrat that tries to run on the strength of THIS economy with a straight face is going to get loving destroyed and laughed out of office. Rightfully so.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:30
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Fritz the Horse posted:this has come up before, I believe Discendo Vox is using the first definition of "abuse" below: Considering DV included "abuse" and "target" in the same breath, they are clearly referring to the second definition you provided: Discendo Vox posted:It is very difficult to have a discussion when it is contingent on wading through the constant insults of people who take the position that whatever they don't want to talk about is automatically "nothing" or "not of value". It's not a subtle method of abuse: whatever isn't happening becomes the only thing that "matters", and anyone who disagrees and wants to acknowledge other events becomes a target. quote:2. treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly. They're literally equating people disagreeing with them with harm. That kind of hyperbole has no place in a forum for very serious debate and discussion.
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Jun 5, 2022 01:32
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2008 destroyed a lot of good jobs and allowed employers to replace lots of people with interns or desperate people Then during the recovery a lot of jobs that replaced those jobs were part of the ‘gig economy’
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Jun 5, 2022 01:33
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BiggerBoat posted:"The Economy" is poo poo and has been for a good long while now. I don't think it ever truly rebounded from 2008 unless my eyes are lying. You can give me all the traditional metrics you want but if none of that has any real positive impact on most people, it's 100% meaningless. And it's built with a house of cards on a thin pane of glass. Don't show me stick market gains and unemployment rates when everyone I know is leveraged up to their rear end and riding credit. It feels to me on a lot of ways that this is the real "late stage capitalism" people keep talking about where price gouging has run rampant and everybody with the power to set prices has realize nobody can really argue with it. I feel like there's no ceiling on how high life necessities might rise in cost and that the market will absolutely try and find out. Of course the only way for the market to adjust for how much people are willing to pay for bread and milk is for people to starve but who cares.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:02
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It was before 2008, honestly. I remember in like 2005 the biggest driver of employment numbers in the US was home construction and nursing. Everything else was hollow. Obviously that wasn't sustainable.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:21
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It's been a slow crawl over decades: Reagan pushing back retirement age for full benefits & subsequent presidents further penalizing the elderly poor; Clinton eradicating welfare, and the subsequent rise in people going on disability; the increase in college tuition & student debt; the "gig economy" taking hold; massive increases in healthcare costs while bestowing more rights on private insurance in the form of governmental services & the right to deny care; the bipartisan decimation of public K-12 education with charter schools & weakening teachers' unions; the weakening of trade unions through offshoring manufacturing & trade agreements; the bipartisan efforts toward decimating tax revenue, thus having excuses to pare state & federal social services; the privatization of government via NGOs & consultancies; the erosion of bodily autonomy thanks to Casey and subsequent state laws restricting abortion; the ever-increasing MIC & the security state; the ginned-up generational wars to get people blaming each other instead of the government; the criminalization of public protests; the "reform" of bankruptcy law, making it harder for people to discharge debt & start anew; hedge funds running the rental market. It's no wonder that idpol & culture wars have come to dominate political discourse among both major parties; without them politicians would be forced to address the utter rot they've created & perpetuated. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 02:42
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Don't forget the complete eradication of meaningful materialist discourse from education so people don't even have the language to talk about how they're being hosed.
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Jun 5, 2022 04:00
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Mendrian posted:It feels to me on a lot of ways that this is the real "late stage capitalism" people keep talking about where price gouging has run rampant and everybody with the power to set prices has realize nobody can really argue with it. I feel like there's no ceiling on how high life necessities might rise in cost and that the market will absolutely try and find out. How long does the store continue to chronically understaff before people just start filling their bags directly (*) and walking out without paying? (*) Another increasing problem for both my small local chains and the bigger ones in the city is lack of baskets and carts requiring one to spend any amount of time hunting them down. Again, an understaffing problem. But again, the alternative customer solution in my plastic banned state is simple: just fill your bags. That makes the "walk out without paying" option even more frictionless.
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Jun 5, 2022 11:55
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Mendrian posted:It feels to me on a lot of ways that this is the real "late stage capitalism" people keep talking about where price gouging has run rampant and everybody with the power to set prices has realize nobody can really argue with it. I feel like there's no ceiling on how high life necessities might rise in cost and that the market will absolutely try and find out. Of course the only way for the market to adjust for how much people are willing to pay for bread and milk is for people to starve but who cares. Despite no longer eating them I've been keeping an eye on the price of eggs each time I go out and get groceries. The absolute cheapest eggs at the store I go to, that were usually about 99 cents for a dozen 2 years ago, are now about $3.49. A gallon of milk at my local stores has doubled in price over that same time period too, from $2 to $4. And sure, some of that poo poo can be chalked up to supply issues, inflation, etc. But I have no confidence that those prices are gonna fall anytime soon even after those factors are no longer an issue.
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Jun 5, 2022 12:51
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BiggerBoat posted:"The Economy" is poo poo and has been for a good long while now. I don't think it ever truly rebounded from 2008 unless my eyes are lying. You can give me all the traditional metrics you want but if none of that has any real positive impact on most people, it's 100% meaningless. And it's built with a house of cards on a thin pane of glass. Don't show me stick market gains and unemployment rates when everyone I know is leveraged up to their rear end and riding credit
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Jun 5, 2022 13:57
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Srice posted:Despite no longer eating them I've been keeping an eye on the price of eggs each time I go out and get groceries. Mendrian posted:It feels to me on a lot of ways that this is the real "late stage capitalism" people keep talking about where price gouging has run rampant and everybody with the power to set prices has realize nobody can really argue with it. I feel like there's no ceiling on how high life necessities might rise in cost and that the market will absolutely try and find out. Of course the only way for the market to adjust for how much people are willing to pay for bread and milk is for people to starve but who cares. Hello you will want to look at this.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:46
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BiggerBoat posted:"The Economy" is poo poo and has been for a good long while now. I don't think it ever truly rebounded from 2008 unless my eyes are lying. You can give me all the traditional metrics you want but if none of that has any real positive impact on most people, it's 100% meaningless. And it's built with a house of cards on a thin pane of glass. Don't show me stick market gains and unemployment rates when everyone I know is leveraged up to their rear end and riding credit. You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel. Very broadly speaking, the economic rebound over the last decade was split across blue collar vs. white collar lines, with most of the gains going to white collar folks, though there are some exceptions in both directions. People who have had white collar jobs with a 401k, subsidized health insurance, and own a home are doing very well right now compare to back then. They probably have had their net worth doubled or tripled even after adjusting for inflation. If you have an even semi-desirable skill your salary has also probably gone up by 50-100% in the past decade, so your purchasing power is also looking pretty good. It's important to note that these jobs represent about 40-50% of the workforce, depending on how exactly you define white collar. The opposite end of that coin is blue collar workers who have largely had their purchasing power decayed by stagnant wages and rising inflation and healthcare costs. They don't have nearly as many assets (if any) so they have not enjoyed the gains of a rising stock market and housing prices. I'm guessing this is where you and most of the people you know are. I think it's an important distinction to make because the former group makes up a significant and growing chunk of the Democrats' base. Especially in the elite coastal states where the money comes from. So this messaging will resonate with a lot of people, especially the ones who have money to donate. A lot of people in this class barely look at food prices, so maybe they have an academic understanding that inflation is happening, but it's not having the same visceral impact as it would for someone in a worse economic situation.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:56
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Seph posted:You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel. I make like 60 bucks an hour and I’m not too stupid and ignorant to tell the economy is hosed and sucks for most people (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 5, 2022 15:14
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ellasmith posted:I make like 60 bucks an hour and I’m not too stupid and ignorant to tell the economy is hosed and sucks for most people You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:17
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ellasmith posted:I make like 60 bucks an hour and I’m not too stupid and ignorant to tell the economy is hosed and sucks for most people
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Jun 5, 2022 15:18
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ellasmith posted:I make like 60 bucks an hour and I’m not too stupid and ignorant to tell the economy is hosed and sucks for most people You are also a poster on D&D who is probably more politically aware than like 95% of the population. My point is that there are a lot of people who are actually doing quite well, about half of the work force give or take. They look at higher gas prices and think "that's annoying" not "how will I survive to my next paycheck?" People living under those circumstances are basically in another reality compared to those living in poverty, so the messaging to them will be different as well.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:47
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Seph posted:You are also a poster on D&D who is probably more politically aware than like 95% of the population. My point is that there are a lot of people who are actually doing quite well, about half of the work force give or take. They look at higher gas prices and think "that's annoying" not "how will I survive to my next paycheck?" People living under those circumstances are basically in another reality compared to those living in poverty, so the messaging to them will be different as well. I dispute that it's about half because housing costs have skyrocketed to the point where just about everyone is feeling it. The issue with people who are "doing fine" and rising prices is that they have less money to put into the economy, less money to save for a problem, which means they might have to do something like draw from their retirement if there is an emergency or they can't keep up their lifestyle- pretty much retirement vehicles are tied to the stock market, which is insane. They can't break into the housing market or, if they do, might end up underwater because of it
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Jun 5, 2022 15:52
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel. 12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.(D) 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:57
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Cranappleberry posted:They can't break into the housing market or, if they do, might end up underwater because of it In many places since the pandemic things like home health care, childcare, and extra curricular activities for ones kids have been nearly unobtainable at any price. Things like swim lessons are stay up until midnight when the sign ups open now. Preschool is the same and nearly a year to reserve.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:00
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Cranappleberry posted:I dispute that it's about half because housing costs have skyrocketed to the point where just about everyone is feeling it. The national rate of homeownership is over 60%. Most of those people have mortgages that were locked in years ago. For those people, the increase in housing prices has increased their net worth, not hurt it. Just to be clear, I'm not denying that the economy is total poo poo for millions of people. But I don't think it's worthwhile to act like the economy is a dumpster fire for everyone when the reality is that a significant chunk of the population is doing very well, and many of those people are also Democratic voters.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:08
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Mendrian posted:It feels to me on a lot of ways that this is the real "late stage capitalism" people keep talking about where price gouging has run rampant and everybody with the power to set prices has realize nobody can really argue with it. I feel like there's no ceiling on how high life necessities might rise in cost and that the market will absolutely try and find out. Of course the only way for the market to adjust for how much people are willing to pay for bread and milk is for people to starve but who cares. I feel the exact same way. It's probably a tired comparison but it all feels like the last hour of a game of Monopoly where you have no chance but keep rolling dice and moving around the board to your inevitable doom. As bad as COVID threw a lot of gas on the things we've already touched on (Reagan, 2008, etc.), it burns my rear end that corporate profits went through the loving roof during all that. Everyone got some meager help, CEO's and big companies made out like bandits and, now, the common belief is that giving people $1400 - $2000 sent us into this inflation spiral. I never get tired of the argument that "the lazy poor people took all the money" It really is the "pie video" writ large (I'll post it but assume most people here are familiar with it). There's simply just not enough pie left when one guy takes 90% of it. Doesn't matter what meager extra size is added to your tiny slice. I also think that our traditional models for measuring the health of the economy are outdated at this point and simply don't the reality for 90% of the population. E And it what way is our economy "diverse"? Or at least for the average person. I'm genuinely curious.  This shows me that 80% of poo poo that directly effects people is: Housing, transportation, food, insurance and healthcare, none of which your typical person has a ton of control over and are simply basic needs. I keep haring Dave Ramsey types telling everyone to cut out their entertainment budget and poo poo but that's less than 10% of what they spend on. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 16:08
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Slugworth posted:I saw that the credit companies are about to stop counting cleared medical debt from your credit score, which seems as tacit an admission we'll ever get that so many folks are going into collections over medical debt that it's breaking the concept of the credit system. Things are never gonna be good again, folks. Lol, even that medical-debt measure is a half-hearted nod to consumers while being a blowie to capital: quote:Here are the details of the new changes effective July 1: So just get the hospital or lab to bill out each service in <$500 chunks & you're good to go! eta: Mr Hootington posted:Hello you will want to look at this. Holy crap, what a visual. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 16:18
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Seph posted:The national rate of homeownership is over 60%. Most of those people have mortgages that were locked in years ago. For those people, the increase in housing prices has increased their net worth, not hurt it. One out of five single-family housing sales are now by institutional investors who plan to rent it out. There is no area of our economy that is operating on behalf of people rather than profits.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:33
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Srice posted:Despite no longer eating them I've been keeping an eye on the price of eggs each time I go out and get groceries. There's a major outbreak of severe bird flu right now, and tens of millions of chickens and turkeys have been culled, so the prices of poultry products are especially high right now.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:49
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Yes, we've discussed the bird flu & the poultry shortage, but the food inflation goes waaay beyond eggs & chicken, unless Srice was talking about the price of chicken milk. It's pretty striking to see responses that say "  most Democrats are fairly well off" or " poultry prices are increasing bc of bird flu," since in a nutshell that's what started off the convo: the Biden administration's fervent belief that things are great right now; why, just look at the job growth and tell me people can't afford housing or food or heating fuel--and if you can't afford those things the odds are in favor that you're a blue-collar chud.It's just the messaging that's the problem, and if we hire a PR pro like Anita Dunn we'll finally be able to convince voters that either their eyes are lying to them about their material conditions or they can shrug it off as well-deserved.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:12
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Seph posted:You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel. This is where the disconnect is happening. Democrats are saying that the system is working and everything is fine while a good chunk of people are at the whims of a failing system and everything is totally not fine. Democrats denying that reality come off as elitist or out of touch. When gofundme has to come out with a statement pleading for the government to make healthcare better because there are simply too many campaigns for medical expenses, it’s not fine. There are so many donation drives for everything from medical stuff to paying rent and bills online that it is insane. So many people need help out there, so many people are struggling that when democrats say that everything is fine, those struggling people are going to ask “fine for who?” and ask themselves if the democrats are truly representing them.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:30
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And if the Democrats keep saying this poo poo and apparently mean it, it raises a lot of questions about who the Democrats are and who they're actually listening to.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:37
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Willa Rogers posted:Yes, we've discussed the bird flu & the poultry shortage, but the food inflation goes waaay beyond eggs & chicken, unless Srice was talking about the price of chicken milk. Yeah, you're posting some good stuff here and i agree with most of it. Things like housing, education and health care were already very hard to afford and, ok, so I got a raise from $17 up to $19/hr. Now let's take a look at my grocery bill and how much it costs to fill up my car, let alone buy a new (or used) one. I keep saying that people can throw all the graphs and charts at me they they want but that's increasingly meaningless to a growing percentage of the population. The point is that the growth doesn't help most people and hasn't been for a long time. Seph posted:You are taking your personal experience and extrapolating it across the entire country. Remember that our economy is very large and diverse, so your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of how others feel. It's not just my personal experience. It includes everyone I know, from my coworkers up to my bosses. People are pissed and sad and the mood and perception are absolutely palpable. Even the people I know who HAVE money don't have any loving money, home owners or otherwise. I suppose it's a "who am I gonna believe, the stats or my lying eyes?" sort of thing and even if I'm being anecdotal, it's a rather large personal sample size. Good for the home owners I guess? Now that that gate is closing for that option, that's a real relief for over half the country who can't even muster up a down payment.
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Jun 5, 2022 17:37
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