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Yeah, this is a big point to mention. W&R is very good at letting you make access roads that run parallel, placing a dirt or gravel road alongside there lets your bulldozer trundle along instead of holding up traffic.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:47
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Someone make the mod that lets me port my map into Snowrunner and I can build the buildings in WR by driving the bulldozers there.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:13
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Also re CO progression: The most efficiency is in having 4-6 in an area, but the most fun is cash building one since you're forced to, putting up the second near your basic gravel chain once it's done and moving aggregates and highway mechanisms there, putting up the third near your first Big Four factory once it's done and dedicating it to framing/engineering, and so on.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:19
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How do you make it through winter? As soon as snow hits my city dies. I have no workers available, so no one goes to the heating plant so everyone's health and happiness plummet. This round I even had snow plows clearing the roads. I have 10% unemployment and 0 workers in any job. At first I though I needed more busses, but they are just running empty. I don't understand how I have unemployment but no workers waiting at bus stops. Lol 900 deaths. Guess that's game over for another city.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:06
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Demon_Corsair posted:How do you make it through winter? As soon as snow hits my city dies. I have no workers available, so no one goes to the heating plant so everyone's health and happiness plummet. Your population stats include the whole map, so it will also count any pre-spawned villages and they don't have jobs. Otherwise unemployment can be because of other things than "there is no job to go to" people can be unemployed due to not having the right education, having a kid to look after cos you didn't provide enough kindergartens or schools. If you have no workers available you need a lot more population, also heating and power can be worth installing a cable car for, very good for reliably supplying specific locations with a steady stream of workers within about 4km of a city.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:15
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OwlFancier posted:Your population stats include the whole map, so it will also count any pre-spawned villages and they don't have jobs. As far as I can tell the map is empty. Should I have a dedicated bus stop that goes to an isolated hearing plant? That way they can't go into the concrete and asphalt plants I usually have near by? Do it sounds like I should be aiming for 1k people by winter? Mandoric posted:A decent rule of thumb is that vehicles move at half-ish speed in snow, so if you don't either have tech services provisioned or a sacrificial black lung house, coming into October you'll want to increase the bus coverage on your heating plant route. But also note that if it's over a 2.5 game-hour drive, snow will make it over 5 and people will just peace out. Is there a good rule of thumb for how long a bus route should be and how many buses I should have on it? Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 18:42
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A decent rule of thumb is that vehicles move at half-ish speed in snow, so if you don't either have tech services provisioned or a sacrificial black lung house, coming into October you'll want to increase the bus coverage on your heating plant route. But also note that if it's over a 2.5 game-hour drive, snow will make it over 5 and people will just peace out. With education enabled, when workers enter the job system daily their first check is whether they have a child; if they do they will either place it in a kindergarten instantly and then latch onto another job, or take the "job" of caring for it which counts as unemployed. So if ie your kindergarten staff are calling out sick due to cold, your other workers will then be unemployed but not at bus stops. Since you can't set separate plow priority for specific roads, but can set it for road classes, and since technical services does not require workers, if snow is giving you trouble with getting workers to utilities, you can: * Build the actual technical services building beyond one of them, and the bus stop feeding it before the road forks again. This forces every plow to scrape that route, at the cost of every plow spending probably a significant amount of time on it. * Use a road type specifically for routes to utilities. Of these: - Dirt, don't unless you have to. At least your BZ-252 as a hauler doesn't mind it for heat or coal-fired electric plants. - Gravel is extremely cheap to do, especially given that these are long hauls if they're causing trouble, and lets you use asphalt for most routes, but the various microbuses and taxis you'd want to use for low-capacity/high-frequency routes are the vehicles that benefit the most from asphalt. Most midsize haulers max out around here so that side isn't a problem. - Asphalt is great for staffing, but overbuilding for fuels unless you're also using small haulers or have progressed into the mid-70s or so where faster trucks come in. - Asphalt with lights, probably a no since you'll want to reserve that for downtowns. - Trolleybus is the most expensive option, and not hugely suitable for actually staffing the plant; you don't even catch up to the speed of 1960 start microbusses until 1979. However, how awkward it is to convert existing cities to use trolleys and how limited their application is (still need fuel for industrial vehicles, lower-density platforms, etc) means you probably won't be using them at all--and this means trolley catenaries/tracks can be established solely as guides for plow drivers if you're willing to tank the added cost. - One-way roads is entirely a question of traffic flow elsewhere in your plan. If you're not using them elsewhere you can simply build a short one-way loop beyond each utility and plow drivers should beeline for it if set to prioritize one-ways; if you are using them elsewhere (say, to simplify traffic flow at the border) this doesn't help at all. E: And yes, definitely a dedicated stop (and housing set to report only to it) at low local population relative to jobs available. If you're not interacting much with micromanaging where people work, you need a little baseline unemployment, and if you're using a populated map and haven't moved everyone out of their villages, you have to either build and staff a city hall and rely on its local figures, or do the math yourself. It's only once you set up a system where there's always someone to keep utilities running that you can then overbuild jobs and let everyone who doesn't get picked up filter down to the steel mill or aircraft plant. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 18:43
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1k pop is pretty small depending on what you’re trying to feed with workers. Even just a few decent sized sinks would eat up the pop trying to work at any given time. My first town usually needs to crest about 2k before I’m not fastidiously micromanaging/watching my power+heat workers busses. Again, though, a lot of these things aren’t going to be easy to answer in general ways because “why aren’t people working my heating plant” has a whole ton of answers based on your set up.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:49
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Demon_Corsair posted:As far as I can tell the map is empty. Should I have a dedicated bus stop that goes to an isolated hearing plant? That way they can't go into the concrete and asphalt plants I usually have near by? You can set what workplaces a destination bus stop will send received workers to, same as you can set what places residents from a house will go to for work (including preferentially bus stops) and you can do this by percentage, if a workplace cannot take any more workers then workers will try to go to one of the other possible worksites instead, so you can set high priority workplaces to take a high percentage of workers and they will overflow to other workplaces. But the big thing you should do is if you do not have enough people to staff all jobs, is build more housing and get more people. It is much better to simply have enough workers than to try and ration them. If you hover over the unemployment stat it will tell you why people are unemployed. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 18:52
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Speaking of prepopulated maps--if you're worried about heating, the unbuildable old houses come with furnaces. So you can do year 1 with a limited population and the limited goal of getting basic services up and running, and only commit to modern housing once the basic design proves itself. But yes, the easiest solution is simply to have enough people that there's always something available. If you overbuild housing and risk ending up in an unemployment-driven crime spiral, that's where your staffing-only CO comes in--lay down five aircraft plants or something next to each other, assign only staffing, and you'll have 2500 or so people happily employed to stand in a field and wait for gravel that will never arrive. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 19:17
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Demon_Corsair posted:As far as I can tell the map is empty. Should I have a dedicated bus stop that goes to an isolated hearing plant? That way they can't go into the concrete and asphalt plants I usually have near by? Buses with destinations that have open jobs should be thought of worker-miners They mine workers from bus stops holding workers, and deliver them to businesses needing workers Your routes need balanced and prioritized assuming they are going to get off at the first relevant stop unless its full This leads to the advice like because heating plants need first right of refusal, have frequent (and maybe small) worker deliveries to ensure staffing. But more generally helps with the design that you just need to pay attention to throughput and frequency specific to the businesses that need workers, their priority, and if you're able to satisfy everything at once or need a dwindling delivery to lower priority type businesses to make up for the lack of workers. There's no simple easy throughput designs like Cities Skylines or train game passenger routes. You're fine tuning every delivery of workers for every case you need workers.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:18
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Demon_Corsair posted:Should I have a dedicated bus stop that goes to an isolated hearing plant? This is what I do. One dedicated bus stop by where the workers live, one by the heating plant, and a bunch of microbuses. Tell one living structure to only go to that bus line, so there's essentially one building in the residential zone dedicated to making sure the heat stays on.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:22
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Blowjob Overtime posted:This is what I do. One dedicated bus stop by where the workers live, one by the heating plant, and a bunch of microbuses. Tell one living structure to only go to that bus line, so there's essentially one building in the residential zone dedicated to making sure the heat stays on. I would say if you're going to do this, this is a description of what a cable car does, except without filling the road with microbuses and also without care as to how snowy it is.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:24
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OwlFancier posted:I would say if you're going to do this, this is a description of what a cable car does, except without filling the road with microbuses and also without care as to how snowy it is. Is the cable car viable that early with so few people? I haven't ever looked into one, but if it's feasible to have it going year 1, I definitely will.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:28
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Blowjob Overtime posted:Is the cable car viable that early with so few people? I haven't ever looked into one, but if it's feasible to have it going year 1, I definitely will. They're genuinely one of my favourite forms of transport. Specifically because depending on the car size they can be throttled down to deliver literally like, three people every couple of minutes, they are super ideal for serving things like power plants, heating, and construction where you need very few workers, but delivered very regularly and without interruption. The downside is they need dedicated stations and can only go from point A to point B, but if you know that point B is going to be needing workers indefinitely, yeah they are worth the investment I think. If you want to increase throughput, add more cars and use the big cars and big station. You can easily shovel hundreds of workers through one if you want to feed a coal mine or something, or throttle them down as low as you like. They don't seem to get many people waiting at the station IME, so you shouldn't be wasting a lot of workers by operating them at low usage, but I would certainly try to find other things to put near the heating plant because they can certainly serve other things as well such as a light industrial district. But yeah, they're pretty cheap to put together and use, only issue is you need to build a road anyway to build the towers, but it can be a lovely road if all it's doing is servicing them, or you can build it alongside an actual road for shits and giggles. It is, admittedly, an extra thing you need to build, but it's not especially pricey. And I absolutely love the dependability. They're also electric of course so that's generally a plus.
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Jun 5, 2022 19:34
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They and trains (and helicopters) are the only vehicles not affected by snow, and will be both dramatically cheaper than creating a dedicated train line, and will provide a more steady drip of passengers. The only frustrating aspect is how much you need to pay to droop lines everywhere when you could perfectly well have a cable car trolly system or similar instead. Ah well.
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Jun 5, 2022 20:00
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I will say, most of the advice we're giving on heating plants we'll be giving again on power plants, and that's one circumstance where electric isn't a plus. Never leave yourself in a position where the next shift of workers for a plant is stuck at home, or in transit, because the last shift left early, especially with electricity where you can't have a DO continue to top off fuel with imports even after your start cracking it yourself. (This also does depend on map position; if you're hooked to a foreign grid it's fine as long as you're cool with your #1 job being to throw the export/import switch during blackouts.)
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Jun 5, 2022 20:02
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I've got a real basic question now. How do you assign workers from a bus stop to a building to work? I see the buttons for workers on the bus stop, but clicking it doesn't let me click on a building to assign to. And I can't get it away from unspecified. E: and how does game time relate to real time. If workers give up after 5 hours on a bus, how does that relate to a 235 second average lap time? Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 20:16
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Demon_Corsair posted:I've got a real basic question now. How do you assign workers from a bus stop to a building to work? You can assign further destinations from the destination bus stop, but not the originating one. That destination bus stop also must be within walking range; note that dirt paths etc only count for 65%(?) of the max distance. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 20:22
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Mandoric posted:I will say, most of the advice we're giving on heating plants we'll be giving again on power plants, and that's one circumstance where electric isn't a plus. Never leave yourself in a position where the next shift of workers for a plant is stuck at home, or in transit, because the last shift left early, especially with electricity where you can't have a DO continue to top off fuel with imports even after your start cracking it yourself. (This also does depend on map position; if you're hooked to a foreign grid it's fine as long as you're cool with your #1 job being to throw the export/import switch during blackouts.) I would say generally that the reliability of a cable car will probably lead to fewer blackouts than a bus line, but there's nothing stopping you making a backup bus line or car park for your power plant if you would like to, just so if the worst happens (or you maybe get a fire at the power plant) it doesn't cut off the supply of workers. This is also a good use case for renewables too, placing a wind turbine near your heating plant/cable car stations can give you some backup in case of emergencies.
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Jun 5, 2022 20:32
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Is the distance people are willing to walk on footpaths long enough that they could walk to a heating plant without breathing in coal smoke?
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Jun 5, 2022 21:01
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Poil posted:Is the distance people are willing to walk on footpaths long enough that they could walk to a heating plant without breathing in coal smoke? Depends on how much heating needs to be done, but if the plant goes at full output, usually the pollution distance is about the length of a paved path, so while you can minimize the cost, there's currently no way to eliminate it.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:05
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You can put a residential unit within walking distance of one and not really suffer much, yeah, but you would be advised to not expand further in that direction.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:20
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Of course, helicopters can run even without electricity, so you could always have a heli-shuttle service, a true sign of your republic's wealth, capabilities, and care for its people.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:30
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Is there a minimum size road section before a excavator or bulldozer will go out to work on it? They will dump the gravel and then just ignore it. I made a road only construction crew, and every once in a while a little janky section won't be completed and I have to assign another crew. For example, the top section didn't get finished by the selected CO I had to assign another one. 
Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 21:48
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Demon_Corsair posted:Is there a minimum size road section before a excavator or bulldozer will go out to work on it? They will dump the gravel and then just ignore it. Yes, actually, they won't send mechanisms to extremely small sections for some reason. It sort of makes sense but broadly if you are laying out sections a long way away it is best to try and avoid micro segments.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:07
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Demon_Corsair posted:Is there a good rule of thumb for how long a bus route should be and how many buses I should have on it? In theory, length is just fixed by physical placement. Multistop routes are more if you're stuck with a limited number of high-capacity vehicles and want to specify, say, "everyone needed get out at the power plant, and only after that everyone left get out at the widget factory"; suited for rail or trolley truly mass transit, less suited for road vehicles where small point-to-point is an option. A bus should, in a vacuum, arrive every 8 hours carrying the entire capacity of the plant. But there's a short lag time to disembark, a walk of various length, and a short lag time to up tools, so more like 7:30. Beyond that, overprovisioning in case of traffic or snow helps--every 6 hours means each bus can safely spend 1:30 in a traffic jam or be delayed 1:30 by weather. This is where microbusses or gondolas shine. Rather than having 15 workers arrive at the heating plant just on time for their 8-hour shift, you can have 5 arrive every 2:40, and the plant will keep running even if two entire runs go missing or show up empty (say, because a construction order happened to hoover up everyone from the platform just before they arrived.) But conversely, microbusses are 3 meters of traffic for 7 people rather than 10 meters of traffic for 90 people, and gondolas need electricity and separate stations. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs, always tradeoffs, and using what you can do confidently to cover for the iffy stuff.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:08
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Demon_Corsair posted:Is there a minimum size road section before a excavator or bulldozer will go out to work on it? They will dump the gravel and then just ignore it. Let us discuss the truly frustrating elephant in the room: building construction will allow people to walk to the building and just pick up a shovel, but street construction will not.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:26
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Volmarias posted:Let us discuss the truly frustrating elephant in the room: building construction will allow people to walk to the building and just pick up a shovel, but street construction will not. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it will.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:27
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OwlFancier posted:Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it will. Is this a recent change? I'll admit I haven't played in a couple months.
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Jun 5, 2022 22:28
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Volmarias posted:Is this a recent change? I'll admit I haven't played in a couple months. I don't think so? Have you set the walk-ons low or something? I haven't looked into it super hard but they usually complete gravel paths and such real fast in cities, I find?
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Jun 5, 2022 22:49
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OwlFancier posted:Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it will. I am very certain it doesn't. CO Busses will drop off workers to build roads when assigned, but otherwise people are perfectly happy looking at a pile of gravel where a road should be and going "not my problem"
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Jun 5, 2022 23:58
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This is correct. Some buildings have a "Max workers outside CO" value set, and opportunistically provide construction jobs; roads don't, and it's not (easily) moddable as buildings have a construction coefficient relative to their type rather than flat numbers.
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Jun 6, 2022 00:20
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When will they let us add sidewalks and lampposts to streets without closing the road!!
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Jun 6, 2022 00:42
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Brain must be making poo poo up again I guess. In other news: Trams, concrete roads!
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Jun 6, 2022 00:44
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Trams!!! Real trams!!
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Jun 6, 2022 00:57
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I hope the speeds/capacities vary more from "a subset of currently-available busses" than the currently implemented trolleys, or that there's support for platform-to-platform connection with intercity rail while only using a single station. A lack of maintenance existing in the game kinda takes the shine off concrete roads, but I'm sure that at some point I'll make repaving cycles a thing I enforce upon myself and use them in places where doing so would cause too much of a mess.
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Jun 6, 2022 01:09
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OwlFancier posted:Brain must be making poo poo up again I guess. Real trams!!! I'm so happy!!!!
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Jun 6, 2022 01:09
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Trams can currently shift a lot more people than buses can, which is nice. If they could also go faster on dedicated tramways that would be nice too. I assume the appeal of concrete roads is they will be easier to lay than asphalt.
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Jun 6, 2022 01:15
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I also really enjoy having the variety. They seem like they'd be really nice to have for weird situations where aesthetically I don't want gravel or dirt, but don't need asphalt (like a small service road basically used for firefighting in paved industrial compounds)
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Jun 6, 2022 02:42
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