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Devils Affricate posted:Tank controls weren't copied from one game to another because people liked that system. They were used because that was the best/only thing developers could come up with at the time. Making the player character move according to the current location of a moving camera is something that feels very intuitive to the player but is actually very complicated to implement. okay but RE1 did in fact literally copy AITD in more than just that one way lmao
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Jun 6, 2022 01:29
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precision posted:okay but RE1 did in fact literally copy AITD in more than just that one way lmao Ok great, thanks for the info
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Jun 6, 2022 01:33
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Lmao!!
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Jun 6, 2022 01:33
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Why hasn't an re1 remake happened?
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Jun 6, 2022 01:45
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KrunkMcGrunk posted:Why hasn't an re1 remake happened? Not sure if this is a joke question
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Jun 6, 2022 01:47
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Devils Affricate posted:Tank controls weren't copied from one game to another because people liked that system. They were used because that was the best/only thing developers could come up with at the time. Making the player character move according to the current location of a moving camera is something that feels very intuitive to the player but is actually very complicated to implement. Resident Evil 1 had tank controls because they were literally just copying Alone in the Dark and adding more combat to it, I thought everyone already knew this
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Jun 6, 2022 01:58
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Devils Affricate posted:Tank controls weren't copied from one game to another because people liked that system. They were used because that was the best/only thing developers could come up with at the time. Making the player character move according to the current location of a moving camera is something that feels very intuitive to the player but is actually very complicated to implement. This is totally wrong though. Doom in 1993 had keybinds to strafe left and right relative to the camera's current facing. But they weren't often used. The default control scheme had the arrow keys as tank controls and alt+left/right (or comma/period) as the strafe buttons, with the understanding that players would probably only use them occasionally. Multitasking between moving and aiming was just not a skill most gamers had at the time since the FPS genre was so new, so trying to turn and strafe at the same time just felt weird and awkward. I don't know when techniques like circle-strafing first came in vogue. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 02:03
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You didn't know re borrowed from aitd? Haha oh my, how gauche.
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Jun 6, 2022 02:06
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:This is totally wrong though. Doom in 1993 had keybinds to strafe left and right relative to the camera's current facing. But they weren't often used. The default control scheme had the arrow keys as tank controls and alt+left/right as the strafe buttons, with the understanding that players would probably only use them occasionally. Doom was an FPS. In a first person perspective, the camera location and the character location are one and the same, so this is a moot point. Tank controls are mainly defined by what pressing the "forward" button entails. If pressing forward/backward makes the player character walk forward or backpedal from their own perspective, that's tank mode. If pressing forward/backward makes the player character move away/toward the camera, that's the intuitive modern system popularized by Mario 64. The presence of the ability to strafe has no bearing on which control scheme a game uses. Hell, I'm pretty sure you couldn't strafe in Mario 64.
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Jun 6, 2022 02:12
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RE1 copying AITD and tank controls being one of the main ways developers hosed around with 3d environments at the time can both be true 
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Jun 6, 2022 02:15
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Good soup! posted:RE1 copying AITD and tank controls being one of the main ways developers hosed around with 3d environments at the time can both be true I don't think anyone ITT is making the claim that RE didn't borrow/copy anything from AITD. Pretty sure one of the original devs of RE stated that AITD was a source of inspiration.
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Jun 6, 2022 02:18
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Devils Affricate posted:Doom was an FPS. In a first person perspective, the camera location and the character location are one and the same, so this is a moot point. Tank controls are mainly defined by what pressing the "forward" button entails. If pressing forward/backward makes the player character walk forward or backpedal from their own perspective, that's tank mode. If pressing forward/backward makes the player character move away/toward the camera, that's the intuitive modern system popularized by Mario 64. The presence of the ability to strafe has no bearing on which control scheme a game uses. Hell, I'm pretty sure you couldn't strafe in Mario 64. OK but "figure out which direction the camera is pointing and move in that direction (or perpendicular to it)" isn't any more difficult mathematically in a third-person game vs a first-person game. I don't see what the technological barriers would be that make it more complicated to implement in non-FPSes.
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Jun 6, 2022 02:21
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:OK but "figure out which direction the camera is pointing and move in that direction (or perpendicular to it)" isn't any more difficult mathematically in a third-person game vs a first-person game. I don't see what the technological barriers would be that make it more complicated to implement in non-FPSes. It was never really a technological barrier (in the sense that the technology at the time couldn't handle it) as it was a more complicated system that game developers took a while to formulate and figure out. Basically you're taking two distinct locational perspectives (the player character and the player camera) and melding them together in a seamless control scheme. Previous efforts had only considered the game character's perspective (which is why FPS games got a natural free pass on this issue, since that's where the camera was already) while leaving the player's view as something that just provides a visual output of what's going on. Giving the player's locational view a direct influence over how the character is controlled was a massive "aha" moment in gaming that pretty much everyone started adopting after it had been introduced. Devils Affricate fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 02:38
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Devils Affricate posted:Ok great, thanks for the info do u need a hug my friend come here and give us a hug
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Jun 6, 2022 02:52
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I'm still waiting for that Sweet Home reference
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Jun 6, 2022 02:58
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precision posted:do u need a hug my friend shut up nerd
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Jun 6, 2022 02:59
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can I have a hug too?
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Jun 6, 2022 03:03
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everyone can have hugs 
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Jun 6, 2022 03:03
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Jun 6, 2022 03:05
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KrunkMcGrunk posted:Why hasn't an re1 remake happened? they did it's on gamecube
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Jun 6, 2022 03:21
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whats a dolphin
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Jun 6, 2022 03:42
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pc is best because you can stair skate and use the door skip mod. that's like 35 minutes off your run combined, no bullshit
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Jun 6, 2022 03:50
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:OK but "figure out which direction the camera is pointing and move in that direction (or perpendicular to it)" isn't any more difficult mathematically in a third-person game vs a first-person game. I don't see what the technological barriers would be that make it more complicated to implement in non-FPSes. The difficulty is not really in the character, it's in the camera. There's a lot of work involved in making the camera move in a way that feels good. Then there's clipping and whatnot. FPS camera is a piece of piss really.
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Jun 6, 2022 04:36
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I mean, see also early FPSes. 'Mouselook? Why would you want that on all the time?' Though I got Doom on Switch and it actually works shockingly well as a twinstick shooter. I mean, it basically is one in disguise.
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Jun 6, 2022 05:48
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:I don't know when techniques like circle-strafing first came in vogue. I recall reading an article about HL1(so circa 1998) that mentioned circle-strafing, so probably Quake/Quake 2 era.
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Jun 6, 2022 06:03
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I remember my friends and I using circle strafing in Duke Nukem 3D multiplayer, but less as a real strat and more a combination of panic and the steroids power up making you run way too fast to be able to aim properly.
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Jun 6, 2022 06:12
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all pc gamers wanna do is circlestrafe monsters in keycard mazes for the rest of their lives, playing doom wads until their last dying breath, demanding every game is just doom with better graphics
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Jun 6, 2022 06:30
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And eat hot chip
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Jun 6, 2022 06:31
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Caesar Saladin posted:all pc gamers wanna do is circlestrafe monsters in keycard mazes for the rest of their lives, playing doom wads until their last dying breath, demanding every game is just doom with better graphics gently caress yeah I'm rad as hell all the time, you are correct 
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Jun 6, 2022 06:38
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I think RPATDO_LAMD was talking about circle strafing as a built-in movement/targeting feature in certain 3rd person games like Zelda OoT, Megaman Legends, or Dark Souls, not the act of manually strafing while maintaining a target in first person shooters.
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Jun 6, 2022 06:52
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Caesar Saladin posted:all pc gamers wanna do is circlestrafe monsters in keycard mazes for the rest of their lives, playing doom wads until their last dying breath, demanding every game is just doom with better graphics you had me until the "better graphics" part
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Jun 6, 2022 07:12
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Justin Godscock posted:Resident Evil 1 was made back when developers were trying to figure 3D games out and were having so many issues with camera and controls (if you read old gaming magazines from the era these are the two biggest things critics jumped on in every review). They eventually figured it out and unless you grew up in that era and appreciate history and all that it's hilariously unplayable to the current generation. You really do need a remake of those games in that sense because it's a product of it's time that needs to be updated to get current gamers into the series (as the argument goes because post-RE4 games continue the story from those games). Tomb Raider had the same issue where the first game is seriously a relic from another time. Core Design never got the memo to loving UPDATE the series and drove it into the ground before millennium arrived. Crystal Dynamics eventually updated the series for the current day and now it's a series that's chugging along (despite Square-Enix incompetence with their North American developers). edit: It is kind of too bad that the potential for artistic expression given by dynamic camera angles is limited by such an infamously crappy control scheme. lurker2006 fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 07:24
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I want a real new resident evil game not some 3rd person action game. the tank controls and fixed camera angles are what makes it a horror game. the controls are part of the atmosphere
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Jun 6, 2022 07:29
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Rutibex posted:I want a real new resident evil game not some 3rd person action game. the tank controls and fixed camera angles are what makes it a horror game. the controls are part of the atmosphere Agreed, which is why it should be 1st person.
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Jun 6, 2022 08:01
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Tank controls in resident evil are goofy because people are actually really good at turning around at quite a speed
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Jun 6, 2022 08:29
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Resident Evils should have more large monster mommies with huge bazongas in tight dresses telling me what to do imo
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Jun 6, 2022 09:01
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Justin Godscock posted:Resident Evil 1 was made back when developers were trying to figure 3D games out and were having so many issues with camera and controls (if you read old gaming magazines from the era these are the two biggest things critics jumped on in every review). They eventually figured it out and unless you grew up in that era and appreciate history and all that it's hilariously unplayable to the current generation. You really do need a remake of those games in that sense because it's a product of it's time that needs to be updated to get current gamers into the series (as the argument goes because post-RE4 games continue the story from those games). Tomb Raider had the same issue where the first game is seriously a relic from another time. Core Design never got the memo to loving UPDATE the series and drove it into the ground before millennium arrived. Crystal Dynamics eventually updated the series for the current day and now it's a series that's chugging along (despite Square-Enix incompetence with their North American developers). Yeah, trying a classic RE for the first time feels like the character’s head is screwed on backwards. RE4 and Tomb Raider feel much better despite still using tank controls just because the camera is always behind you. I do want a TR game with more realistic climbing and less shooting like the classic games. Proper momentum when jumping and not allowing you to swivel 180 degrees in mid-air like the recent games. Make climbing a puzzle and not just following the glowing handholds. I wouldn’t blame Core Design for how samey they felt. They were desperate to get out of the yearly schedule Eidos were forcing on them so they could develop better tools and refine the gameplay. That strict schedule caused a lot of burnout and meant the first PS2 TR game was released completely unfinished.
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Jun 6, 2022 09:49
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What does realistic climbing involve? Slower and more annoying?
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Jun 6, 2022 09:56
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In what world does Tomb Raider for the PS1 control better than Resident Evil?
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Jun 6, 2022 09:58
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Caesar Saladin posted:What does realistic climbing involve? Slower and more annoying? Realistic always means slower and more annoying except for graphics, there it means more expensive and uglier
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Jun 6, 2022 10:12
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