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Wanderer posted:I think they mean Silver Fox, not Mariko Yoshida. Logan never actually managed to tie the knot with Mariko in the 616. Silver Fox is such a continuity nightmare I can understand stories wanting to gloss over her - did we ever actually get confirmation that she and Wolverine really were together, or is it still in the 'potentially Weapon X implanted memories' category?
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Jun 6, 2022 13:58
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Skwirl posted:What was Peter Parker doing in 75, because he was 15 when he got Spider Powers and Scott and Jean were both 16 at the time. Peter's age at the time of the spider bite is a bit of a mess. There are stories that claim the age is higher and just the comics themselves make him seem older. He graduates high school before the series is even thirty issues in and we never get the impression he has gone through a couple entire years of schooling in that time. And he also dates working woman Betty Brant during part of that. We can imagine that smart guy Peter skipped a grade or two and is younger than his classmates and that Betty dropped out to work full-time but I think we'd be doing that just to pretend OG Spider-Man has as much teen hero cred as possible.
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Jun 6, 2022 14:18
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Angry Salami posted:Silver Fox is such a continuity nightmare I can understand stories wanting to gloss over her - did we ever actually get confirmation that she and Wolverine really were together, or is it still in the 'potentially Weapon X implanted memories' category? They were originally together but she comes back running part of HYDRA (like you do) until Sabertooth kills her.
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Jun 6, 2022 16:46
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Gripweed posted:Wait, there's a part in the comic where Teen Cyclops says he's going to go talk to Jean, and Wolverine stops him and says "this isn't your Jean. You never knew her, you never loved her" But she wasn't his Jean either? What the gently caress? She was significantly less old Wolverine's Jean than she was teen Cyclop's Jean! When I thought it was an old version of the real Wolverine I was like, I don't like this because the Wolverine/Jean pairing has always been bad to me, but at least he had a point that he had known Jean a lot longer than teen Cyclops. But he never even knew that Jean, and teen Cyclops did Did Old Man Logan then go talk to her instead? If not, I could see him advising Teen Cyc because he's in the same situation, having to constantly remind himself that this Jean isn't the Jean he knew, just like all the other people around him aren't the people he knew from his reality. I don't care much for the Wolverine/Jean pairing, but think if it's going to happen on any level that Hickman's throuple is the most interesting an innovative way to do it. That said, even in the current books it seems like every write but Percy focuses more on Scott and Jean as the core relationship of that polycule.
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Jun 6, 2022 17:56
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glitchwraith posted:Did Old Man Logan then go talk to her instead? If not, I could see him advising Teen Cyc because he's in the same situation, having to constantly remind himself that this Jean isn't the Jean he knew, just like all the other people around him aren't the people he knew from his reality. Oh yeah I should've said, the old Wolverine is the one who goes to talk to her. Even though there's like 20 X-men there, and all the rest (as far as I know., assuming there weren't other reality swaps I'm not aware of) actually had known that Jean. That's why I was surprised that old Wolverine is from a different reality instead of a different timeline, no one questions that he should be the one to go talk to her.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:16
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I will admit, I do just in general think Wolverine gets too much focus. But that's unavoidable.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:23
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Gripweed posted:I will admit, I do just in general think Wolverine gets too much focus. But that's unavoidable. Logan gets too much focus and the best Wolverine--Laura--should be getting far more of it. All of the other Wolverines are better than Logan and I like Logan.
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Jun 6, 2022 18:25
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Endless Mike posted:In 1975, Peter was in college being cloned. So Jean is early-mid twenties and definitely not a teenager when she first meets Logan.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:29
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Lobok posted:Peter's age at the time of the spider bite is a bit of a mess. There are stories that claim the age is higher and just the comics themselves make him seem older. He graduates high school before the series is even thirty issues in and we never get the impression he has gone through a couple entire years of schooling in that time. And he also dates working woman Betty Brant during part of that. We can imagine that smart guy Peter skipped a grade or two and is younger than his classmates and that Betty dropped out to work full-time but I think we'd be doing that just to pretend OG Spider-Man has as much teen hero cred as possible. First few years of Marvel comics basically happen in real time, Peter graduates high school in less than thirty issues because that's 2 and a half years we've been reading about this character. It wasn't until Stan and Jack and Ditko weren't writing everything that there was a concept of a "status quo" that poo poo needed to return to. And Betty Brandt was clearly supposed to be a teenager when Peter was dating her, older, but like 19 at most.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:35
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Gripweed posted:Oh yeah I should've said, the old Wolverine is the one who goes to talk to her. Even though there's like 20 X-men there, and all the rest (as far as I know., assuming there weren't other reality swaps I'm not aware of) actually had known that Jean. Ah. Then I agree, that's weird and bad writing, even if you where to ship Jean and Logan.
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Jun 6, 2022 19:56
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Skwirl posted:First few years of Marvel comics basically happen in real time, Peter graduates high school in less than thirty issues because that's 2 and a half years we've been reading about this character. It wasn't until Stan and Jack and Ditko weren't writing everything that there was a concept of a "status quo" that poo poo needed to return to. And Betty Brandt was clearly supposed to be a teenager when Peter was dating her, older, but like 19 at most. It's not really about a status quo, it's that when a story comes out every month but stories clearly end and begin without a month between them that real-time quickly breaks down. And Stan Lee tried clarifying that Peter was already a senior dating Betty and she was younger than him so that would put most of his pre-college issues in his last year of high school with only those first several issues before Betty a quick run-through of the couple years prior. The first several issues are already in huge retcon territory anyway so this is just something else to add to the pile.
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Jun 6, 2022 20:30
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Hey wait, I'm pretty sure I also read the return of Jean Grey mini event , and if I remember correctly (it's very possible I don't, I didn't care all that much for it) all the X-Men including the past X-Men are assembled outside of a psychic bar (as in a bar psychically constructed) where Jean is pretending to work because she's subconsciously trying to prevent herself from fully resurrecting I guess, and while Logan is the one to go in and talk to her, once she awakens as Jean Grey I'm pretty sure she instantly roasts him by saying something along the lines of "I was never yours" and then goes out to reunite with all the other X-Men while Wolverine just kinda stares sadly at the ground. I mean, it seemed really clear that it wasn't supposed to be a romantic thing.
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Jun 6, 2022 20:36
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these issues could be solved with some sort of new universe where the comics occurred in real time
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Jun 6, 2022 20:43
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Skwirl posted:First few years of Marvel comics basically happen in real time, Peter graduates high school in less than thirty issues because that's 2 and a half years we've been reading about this character. It wasn't until Stan and Jack and Ditko weren't writing everything that there was a concept of a "status quo" that poo poo needed to return to. And Betty Brandt was clearly supposed to be a teenager when Peter was dating her, older, but like 19 at most. Yeah the standard model "Floating Time Scale" Marvel uses can definitely complicate things though obviously keeping things anchored in real time wasn't feasible for more than a couple years anyways(Astro City is pretty much the only Superhero comic to pull that off long term), though I still really like the concept of what one could call a "Reverse Floating Time Scale" originated by the Original Marvel Universe blog where instead of the current method where Fantastic Four #1 is always being pulled forward in a nebulous "about 20 years before the present", instead Fantastic Four #1 is always anchored to Late 1961 and later comics get dragged back towards that more and more depending on how far afterwards they were published and as the timeline gets more compressed(so for example X-Men #1 and Avengers #1 from 1963 only get pulled back about a year to 1962, while stories published in the early 90's get dragged all the way back to around 1976*), though admittedly this does have some kinks when applied to existing comics rather than some new universe *admittedly this particular degree of compression works for OMU because they cutoff after the early 90's what they consider canon for OMU(so only compressing about 30 years of real world publications down to about 15 years of in-universe events), if one were to do a similar formula for a timeline encompassing all the way to 2022 you would probably need a different ratio since you'd be working with about 60 years of publications and would probably want to fit that into an approximately 20 to 25 year stretch of in-universe time(which would put comics published in 2022 all the way back to approximately 1986 in-universe)
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Jun 6, 2022 22:09
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that system would leave iron man permanently bound to the awesome power of transistors.
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Jun 6, 2022 22:20
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Cloks posted:these issues could be solved with some sort of new universe where the comics occurred in real time Savage Dragon takes place in real time, and Judge Dredd has tried it for a long time before getting a little fuzzy with it. It works pretty well for those books. I don't think that would fit X-Men, plus there's a big caveat in the style of very decompressed storytelling that is popular. Savage Dragon happens to be a bit more oldschool and compressed. If one adventure takes 12 issues or something, real time will mean we won't get that much development before a character ages out or whatever. Plus, while ok in some cases, I think it's cooler to follow a character or group than always replace them with legacy characters. The legacy thing is working well for Dragon, but at Marvel when you have new creative teams every couple years, it can feel like characters aren't going anywhere or developing their life story much for other reasons. Take say Spider-Man. A lot of fans would like to see him and Mary Jane have a real relationship, more supporting cast, and some momentum in their lives. These issues to me are bigger than whether or not they're 25 or 45 etc.
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Jun 6, 2022 23:37
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Yeah the truth is straight up aging characters in real time just isn’t going to happen as long as the characters themselves are the selling point in the long run
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Jun 6, 2022 23:58
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rantmo posted:Logan gets too much focus and the best Wolverine--Laura--should be getting far more of it. All of the other Wolverines are better than Logan and I like Logan. even that blonde boy from the ultimate universe???
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Jun 7, 2022 00:09
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OnimaruXLR posted:even that blonde boy from the ultimate universe??? I did not hate myself enough to follow Ultimate X-Men that long.
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Jun 7, 2022 00:13
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Codependent Poster posted:Wolverine/Jean does not work on its own at all but people kept trying to push it. And there was that one scene in...I think it was HoX/PoX that kind of implied that the Scott/Jean/Logan relationship very much included Scott and Logan as a thing, too.
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Jun 7, 2022 00:24
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We Got Us A Bread posted:And there was that one scene in...I think it was HoX/PoX that kind of implied that the Scott/Jean/Logan relationship very much included Scott and Logan as a thing, too. Which is what makes it work, especially with how it puts a new lens on pretty much every Scott and Logan interaction since basically the beginning
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Jun 7, 2022 00:30
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it was a Jim Shooter's new universe joke
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Jun 7, 2022 00:35
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drrockso20 posted:Which is what makes it work, especially with how it puts a new lens on pretty much every Scott and Logan interaction since basically the beginning Hey, teen Scott was attracted to Laura so it doubly makes sense. I'm still mad they didn't go through with that.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:05
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rantmo posted:I did not hate myself enough to follow Ultimate X-Men that long. Don’t worry, I am here to bring you the exciting news that Miles Morales was not the only Ultimate U character to transition into the 616. Jimmy Hudson made it too! For pretty much just the run of X-Men Blue. I honestly don’t even remember what happened to him.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:26
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that system would leave iron man permanently bound to the awesome power of transistors. What's the downside?
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Jun 7, 2022 02:29
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Internet Wizard posted:Don’t worry, I am here to bring you the exciting news that Miles Morales was not the only Ultimate U character to transition into the 616. Jimmy Hudson made it too! Yeah, I remember him from that run, but I could not possibly tell you what he was doing or where he went and I'm fine with that.
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Jun 7, 2022 02:41
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Comics in real time can be awkward because a 12-issue arc can cover just a few days in-universe, while another issue can visit the characters months apart. The last 4 Iron Man issues covered less than 3 days in Tony's life but took about 6 months to do it. I think the entire Cantwell run starting in 2020 to now only covers a few weeks. Does the next arc have to jump forward 2 years to catch up? The X-man cometh fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 13:41
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Codependent Poster posted:Hey, teen Scott was attracted to Laura so it doubly makes sense. I'm mad they didn't try anything with teen Scott and Kamala because they clearly had chemistry.
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Jun 7, 2022 13:46
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52 attempted comics in real-time and I'm pretty sure by the end they gave up and just told the story they wanted to tell. There's definitely interviews where they talk about having trouble using certain narrative tricks (e.g. issue-ending cliffhangers) since the next issue was supposed to be the following week.
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Jun 7, 2022 13:49
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I honestly would have preferred if the time displaced X men didn’t have any relationship’s because that is kind of weird
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Jun 7, 2022 14:15
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It's more weird that a bunch of teenagers wouldn't try to get some
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Jun 7, 2022 15:27
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Dawgstar posted:I'm mad they didn't try anything with teen Scott and Kamala because they clearly had chemistry. Yeah that would've been a good pairing too.
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Jun 7, 2022 15:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:I honestly would have preferred if the time displaced X men didn’t have any relationship’s because that is kind of weird Yeah I don't think anybody wants to be in a situation where they have to explain "Yes, Cyclops is 40 years old and was in a romantic relationship with Kamala Khan who is 15. But he did it as himself from the past brought forward to the present so they were the same age, and it's not weird"
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Jun 7, 2022 16:09
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sounds pretty normal for X-Men tbh
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Jun 7, 2022 16:18
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The perfect premise on which to introduce a shocking new character, Stretchy Cable. His time displaced teenage father left his mother alone while the regular version of his father was dead. Now he's come back to the future of the past of the future past for revenge
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Jun 7, 2022 16:22
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Gripweed posted:Yeah I don't think anybody wants to be in a situation where they have to explain "Yes, Cyclops is 40 years old and was in a romantic relationship with Kamala Khan who is 15. But he did it as himself from the past brought forward to the present so they were the same age, and it's not weird" Cable, who is 60 years old, was in a romantic relationship with the Stepford Cuckoos who are 16.
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Jun 7, 2022 16:51
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Yeah but Cable was only recently just born so really it's the sisters who are cradle-robbing.
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Jun 7, 2022 16:58
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I forgot about teenage cable, I think that’s honestly much worse since he knew all these characters beforehand
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Jun 7, 2022 18:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:I forgot about teenage cable, I think that’s honestly much worse since he knew all these characters beforehand Except he didn't because Teen Cable hadn't met any of them yet.
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Jun 7, 2022 18:23
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Was this the teenage version of the real Cable brought to the present via time travel like Teen Cyclops, or was it a different Cable from a different reality?
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Jun 7, 2022 18:26
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