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Khanstant posted:Why didn't Pike spit back: "no, we got rid of that child suffering poo poo, post-scarcity life rules ya dingbat!!!" Because they haven't yet
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Jun 10, 2022 03:34
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Aeolusdallas posted:Because they haven't yet Yeah, this. We’re still in the yee-haw days of Starfleet and humanity is probably still getting its poo poo together. At least when it comes to things not directly on Earth.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:42
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HD DAD posted:Yeah, this. We’re still in the yee-haw days of Starfleet and humanity is probably still getting its poo poo together. At least when it comes to things not directly on Earth. I was just about to say this is a very "Earth ≠ The Federation" situation. Yeah, that stuff is gone from Earth, but even into TNG there's still hosed up poo poo going on in even some "core worlds" territory of the Federation let alone the far fringes and new member worlds/colonies.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:43
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Aeolusdallas posted:Because they haven't yet I'm yelling that exact phrase two or three times a week and it's not true now either, doesn't mean you can't say it to people.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:43
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Wheeee posted:surely no civilization would prioritize its existence over the suffering and death of a single child, i say from my home in the imperial core where my lifestyle is built upon the enslavement and immiseration of billions Shortly after watching the episode I got a delivery of Chinese made clothing and electronics.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:58
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Ha, that's the mansion from BIlly Madison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGeFi3Ap61E&t=106s (Parkwood Estate, Oshawa)
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Jun 10, 2022 04:43
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I Am Fowl posted:This episode owed Le Guin a writing credit. Yeah so did Avatar. People talk about Dances with Wolves but Avatar's whole 5th act is ripped straight from The Word for World is Forest.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:07
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Final shot of the episode summarizes my feelings about the episode.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:07
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Doesn't Pike have a girl back home? Back in the first episode, she had breakfast with him in that cabin in the mountains, before he went back to the Enterprise. Although as I recall she was a starship captain too, so perhaps she understands the necessity of boinking any attractive (and optionally green) aliens you might run across out there.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:31
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Man, Lower Decks is so good. I love this.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:33
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CLAM DOWN posted:Man, Lower Decks is so good. I love this. RIP Spock 2
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Jun 10, 2022 05:36
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CLAM DOWN posted:Man, Lower Decks is so good. I love this. It’s so loving good.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:38
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Powered Descent posted:Doesn't Pike have a girl back home? Back in the first episode, she had breakfast with him in that cabin in the mountains, before he went back to the Enterprise. Oh yeah! What the hell??
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Jun 10, 2022 05:55
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Hey man don’t put your 21st century hangups about monogamy on Captain Pike.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:57
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Yeah, the other Captain seemed like a very casual “whenever we’re both on the same planet” thing.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:10
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Well, that was certainly a pretty neat episode. It really hearkens back to the TOS and TNG days; it's basically a purely episodic installment. Well, almost. We don't really need the "Previously on" bit, as none of it seemed like stuff that we needed to keep fresh in our heads in a certain order of events. Uhura is making the rounds, but the order isn't important; I don't recall her mentioning her time in engineering in this episode. And we know that Doc Fisherman has a kiddo in the pattern buffer. Also, there's no need to stop the show to tell us that Pike is gonna melt for us. I've seen the difference between this show and DIS-CARD, and it's getting better. Like, all the time. It was chilling to find out at the end that Dr. Venture's descendants apparently dusted off the blueprints for the Joy Can when they did some contract work for the Magellans. But at least this one isn't powered by just the heart of a foresaken child. They finally figured out how to use the whole thing!
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Jun 10, 2022 06:34
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Wow, the kid playing the First Servant absolutely nailed it.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:40
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The next time Rukiya comes out the transporter buffer she's gonna ask her dad what happened to the cool kid she played neon hopscotch with and M'Benga's just gonna lunge right for the transporter control panel.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:48
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Atlas Hugged posted:As much as I love B5, that episode is season 1. It should have ended like a different S1 episode, namely Deathwalker, but I get why they couldn't.
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Jun 10, 2022 06:50
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Giving it some more thought, it seems to me there's a possible resolution waiting. Pike's girlfriend said they'd been looking for ages for an alternative to the child torture device. And other than the child torture device, it seems to be a very reasonable race. Well, that's a good start. The Federation could completely ignore this world from now on but that wouldn't be helpful. The child torture would continue. Instead, start diplomatic talks. They seem to have good medicine but a rather bad grasp of engineering otherwise, seeing how weak their ships are. So the Federation proposes to send some of their best engineers to find an alternative to the child torture device that keeps the planet running. This, by itself, is in the best interest of both groups. It's quite possible that with such a proposal, even that colony is willing to help, and that with some diplomatic help from the Federation, the people on the planet and those in the colony could even become allies again. When those basics are handled the Federation could start talks about exchanging something like Federation shielding tech for their medical tech. If they don't want to join the Federation that's fine but a trade relationship sounds quite feasible. Just tell them that without Federation shields they wouldn't stand a chance against the Klingons or whatever. Cooperating on ending the child torture should be a hard demand from the Federation of course. Since Pike's girlfriend seems at least somewhat open to this idea, it may be necessary to order Pike to lead the initial talks, as much as he may hate it. After all, this seems to be the most logical course of action, Captain. --- I'd watch an episode like that but sadly I expect the writers aren't really gonna come back to it, or at least not in this way.
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Jun 10, 2022 07:04
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Taear posted:It just doesn't feel like it's long enough. And also Uhura socialises with them as a member of the bridge crew. Or she's got one or two former trainees on board, and they will NOT shut up about it.
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Jun 10, 2022 07:25
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Finally watched the episode and yeah, it’s probably my least favorite of the season thus far. But you know what? It’s also the episode I’ve been the most impressed with. It’s a middling moral drama with a lackluster conclusion that was still compelling enough that I wasn’t bored or waiting for the episode to just end, perfectly in keeping with at least 1/5th of TNG. And in that way it’s oddly the closest modern Trek has come to replicating a straight up circa TNG season 6/DS9 season 1 episode. That’s great! I still liked moments in this one. Chapel and M’Benga with the kid, Uhura and La’an investigating, even the guest stars turned in pretty decent performances. Telling your hookups post-coitus about your horrific future accident has gotta be a bit of a bummer though. Maybe try something a little lighter next time, Pike.
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Jun 10, 2022 07:28
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Carbon dioxide posted:Giving it some more thought, it seems to me there's a possible resolution waiting. Problem with this is that it was heavily implied if you don't switch out the kids basically immediately, the society dies right then and there. At the very least, the Federation would have to be complicit in any number of children being sacrificed while they worked on the solution.
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Jun 10, 2022 07:44
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That unsatisfying conclusion is a hallmark of some of the best Trek and itself a key part of the morality play here. We've seen Pike succeed in intervening where he really wasn't supposed to in the first episode, it's important to think about when it might not be possible to intervene, even when your morals are screaming at you to do so. Pretty much what anyone in NATO who cares about Ukraine is feeling right now, or anyone outside the US watching the gun control issue. I think even just one outburst from Pike that he then cuts himself off from would have been good at that final talk. But I agree with the take that he was both so hurt and so vexed by the situation that he couldn't think of anything to do or say other than "get me the hell off this planet". And the other parallels with modern society are apt; death lava planet but they live in paradise above it but for 1 small sacrifice for their comforts. The Majalans have a thousand different ways they could live somewhere else, maybe even better if they get the Federation's help, but no... it's tradition and status quo or death. Including moral considerations so they can pat themselves on the back for the thoughts and prayers to the sacrificed, and baseless accusations of "but you do it too" to excuse their behavior. This is one they could definitely come back to but I'd want it in season 2. Stay episodic I do not trust modern Trek writers to be within a lightyear of serialized TV. I'd be fine with Pike mentioning how it's messing with him in the next few episodes, it would be nice to get a bit more of his reactions he didn't have a lot of time at the end here. I'm pretty sure at this point Earth is the utopia Gene envisioned, aside from the occasional crazy space disease that like 1 in a million people get. So the accusation of "aren't kids dying on your planet" is baseless, but I think in universe she's simply projecting, assuming everyone else has these problems, and for the moral play this is certainly true of every society we know of today. Orthanc6 fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 07:57
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Wheeee posted:surely no civilization would prioritize its existence over the suffering and death of a single child, i say from my home in the imperial core where my lifestyle is built upon the enslavement and immiseration of billions There's a difference between abstract suffering of people and the specific suffering of a single person I'm sure that they'd be all down with it after years of propoganda anyway I'm just saying
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Jun 10, 2022 08:04
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Honestly, I cant say I would be against sacrificing one child to turn the world into paradise.
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Jun 10, 2022 08:08
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I feel like they could have done a bit of polishing to it overall, but it's classic trek in the vein of The Cloud Minders and maybe a little bit of that other one where people get chosen to be vaporised at random. Lindy Booth does excellent "good on the surface" here with some subtle acting choices.
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Jun 10, 2022 10:49
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I Am Fowl posted:This episode owed Le Guin a writing credit. This show has been pretty good all things considered but oof, this was a miss for me. The captain directly enabled them to torture the child and they conclude on like, how bummed he is about it without doing anything? I thought this stood in stark contrast to the B5 episode, which I did like, where Franklin did everything he believed he needed to do to stop the awful tragedy. He still failed, by virtue of not anticipating or understanding how deeply-rooted the parents' belief system was and how far they'd take it, but he still did went way above and beyond to find and force his solution. I'm totally fine with them failing at the end, that's how the story goes and all, but Pike just failed to show any leadership at all in this one. I second that it should have been a core federation world and perhaps even the only source of like, space fluxium or whatever - force the federation to make a call and walk away from omelas or not, rather than just weakly staying out of it.
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Jun 10, 2022 10:54
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Came here to post this. Pretty brazen not to acknowledge it. I had not heard of Those Who Walk Away from Omelas before this but I drat well am reading it now. I thought Pike did a decent job of letting his emotions show when he started trying to break through the guards, and showing his utter contempt for the situation when he responded to their justifications with "Number One, now", just completely unable to communicate how horrified he is and abandoning any pretense of reason.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:23
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Powered Descent posted:Doesn't Pike have a girl back home? Back in the first episode, she had breakfast with him in that cabin in the mountains, before he went back to the Enterprise. They end their scene together with Pike telling her to look him up when her ship gets back in six months or something because he may still be around and she responds by saying she hopes he's back on Enterprise far from Earth by then. It's definitely a casual "if we happen to be in the same solar system" sort of thing. As far as the current episode goes, it's probably my least favorite of the ones we've had so far but I still enjoyed it quite a bit. I did get the impression that the Child-TortureMatic-9000 ran all of their tech, so they couldn't just leave and take their stuff with them. They seemed like a weird lost colony who didn't really understand all of their technology, given that there's no chance this could be their homeworld and they had no idea why their founders had set things up this way or how to stop it. Polaron fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 13:33
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Episode was good. A little slower than previous eps but there's nothing wrong with a little slow trek. On par with a mid season TNG. The fact that they could just evacuate the planet, keep their tech and not have to deal with the child torture computer kind of diminishes the whole "you don't understand, it's just our culture" thing.
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Jun 10, 2022 14:04
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I'm glad they are releasing one episode a week, because the whiplash between this and Spock Amok during a binge session would be killer.
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Jun 10, 2022 14:19
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I really should have had "Middling adaptation of a classic Sci Fi story" on the star trek bingo sheet.
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Jun 10, 2022 14:28
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Wait a second, Omelas spelled backwards is Spocko
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Jun 10, 2022 14:31
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zoux posted:Wait a second, Omelas spelled backwards is Spocko 
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Jun 10, 2022 14:38
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I would have preferred it if Alora had looked directly at the camera and pointed at us, the audience, when she was telling "Pike" that actually what they do is at least not worse than what we do to children. and also Khanstant posted:Why didn't Pike spit back: "no, we got rid of that child suffering poo poo, post-scarcity life rules ya dingbat!!!"
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Jun 10, 2022 14:50
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Jun 10, 2022 15:05
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Khanstant posted:Why didn't Pike spit back: "no, we got rid of that child suffering poo poo, post-scarcity life rules ya dingbat!!!" That would be nice, but remember that at least 74% of the crew on any starship has a tragic backstory involving their horrible childhoods that were apparently full of everything from regular suffering to "monsters are trying to eat us and/or breed inside of our carcasses" levels of suffering. Lots of suffering. Nothing but childhood trauma. I would be amazed if there was a single crew member on the Enterprise who had a happy childhood.
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Jun 10, 2022 15:05
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chief kyle had a boring childhood and that’s why he’s so mean to everyone he outranks
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Jun 10, 2022 15:09
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tarlibone posted:That would be nice, but remember that at least 74% of the crew on any starship has a tragic backstory involving their horrible childhoods that were apparently full of everything from regular suffering to "monsters are trying to eat us and/or breed inside of our carcasses" levels of suffering. Lots of suffering. Nothing but childhood trauma. I would be amazed if there was a single crew member on the Enterprise who had a happy childhood. That would be relevant if any of that childhood trauma was foundational to the functioning of the Federation. If the Federation can be blamed for anything its not being able to prevent those tragedies, not willfully causing those tragedies to occur.
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Jun 10, 2022 15:16
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