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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Inflation is good because it means people are spending more is for sure a take I would expect from an economist. I swear to god Economists are the astrology or acupuncture of legitimate fields of study. just complete woo horseshit with a veneer of truthiness and sheer momentum from legacy. People believing economists are scientists and "the markets" are like forces of nature that they analyze might just be the most damaging falsehood believed by most people.
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Jun 10, 2022 17:44
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Abner Assington posted:I think about this all the time, and it's especially true for those of us who are alone. There was a good article (in maybe Atlantic or Economist?) a year or so ago about how ridiculously tough it is to live alone in this country in terms of finances. Was this the one you were talking about? Agreed, it's got a lot of salient points.
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Jun 10, 2022 17:46
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BiggerBoat posted:Yeah, and from the sound of it, it looks like we're going to get back to sucking up to the Saudis instead OPEC+ does not have the spare capacity to meet the increased output they already promised.  Removing the Venezuela and Iran sanctions will not fix the problem either. The best part is the longer the Russian sanctions stay in place, the longer and more severe the energy pain will be. This is because as Russia fills up all available storage because they can not ship oil or refined products fast enough they will have to reduce production of crude and refined. This stuff doesn't just turn back on when it is turned off either. It can take years to get fully back online. Anyway here is some increasingly bad news related to inflation. It wouldn't have mattered if regular cpi had gone down if sticky had continued to rise. 
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Jun 10, 2022 17:48
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Mr Hootington posted:OPEC+ does not have the spare capacity to meet the increased output they already promised. Yeah I get the feeling something is coming for the US economy and we're just kinda stuck like deer in a headlights about it.
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Jun 10, 2022 17:52
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Bel Shazar posted:I'm trying to find the headspace to think prosecuting a criminal is a worse precedent than NOT prosecuting them and while I get what you are trying to say, making a slippery slope argument in the face of actual treason and other high crimes and misdemeanors is, quite simply, illogical. Unfortunately so is about half the country, and that half has constant reinforcement in the form of Fox News and rightwing media to tell them that yes, their fears and persecution complexes are valid and they are very much being targeted for their beliefs, look at how they're going after your former president who was on your side. Is it correct? No, but if you haven't figured out by now that just because something is false doesn't mean people won't act on it as if it were true, I don't know what to tell you. Did Trump actually commit the crimes he's being accused of? After last night it sure as hell looks that way. But the perception of targeted prosecution is a consideration regardless of whether or not its true, and it can be drummed up to be persecution and political quite easily. I'm hoping this hearing lights enough of a fire under Garland's DOJ that they demand a special prosecutor from Biden to fully investigate it on their own, assuming it unveils anything not already covered by the seditious treason case. Gumball Gumption posted:No legal document can because fascists don't believe in the law. And they're correct, the law is fake and only works because we believe in it and agree to follow it. In the same way that tolerance only works if you swiftly eject anyone who is trying to push non-tolerance, rule of law only works if you swiftly eject anyone who doesn't believe in it and agree to it. Historical precedent has shown again and again that fascist groups rising to power need to be swiftly outlawed and pushed out or else they will keep trying to subvert the law until it works and they have control. The problem is, you have one side on the side of law and order (and objective reality) and the other side on the 'reality is what I say it is gently caress your rules' and your suggestion for the law and order side is to follow the same precepts as the 'might makes right' side at which point, what's the difference between them? One side saying they're breaking the law for the right reasons while those other guys are doing it for the wrong ones? Either way you're still going to end up with authoritarians in power, they'll just be YOUR authoritarians and that's ok. Until you know, they decide that something you like is a problem. That's just destroying the village in order to save it, and that doesn't have a very good track record, historically. The Dems hands are tied in this to a certain extent because of that. Sure Biden could just declare martial law, arrest Trump and his entire coterie and kick off Civil War II, Electric Boogaloo. But one side of this equation has a lot more guns and a lot more sympathy among the police and other local armed powers that be than the other and are waiting for an excuse. The federal armed forces in general seem to be more on the side of democracy still. Whether you want to burn it all down or not, there are plenty of other people who know drat good and well that a civil war is going to result in suffering for the vast majority of people, a hell of a lot of pointless destruction and death. I can see why they'd want to thread that needle very carefully to avoid that result. I think unless things super duper change a lot in the next couple of years its just kicking the can down the road until there's a reckoning (the Roe v. Wade overturning will factor in a lot as we get to re-enact the Fugitive Slave Act except for abortion) but I cannot fault those in charge of the nation's best interests to want to avoid it if at all possible. The problem is there are no good options that'll fix this right now. There's going to be a lot of painful choices ahead, and historically America is not good at making painful choices.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:16
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Circutron posted:Was this the one you were talking about? Agreed, it's got a lot of salient points.  as hell for someone like me.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:17
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Bishyaler posted:What do you recommend for the next steps considering the fascists are about to permanently assume control of our government? Well, there's two viable paths. The first and most ideal one is to undermine their actual political support by winning away the people who support them. A grassroots rejection of fascism would significantly erode their actual staying power - it's a lot easier to take extraordinary measures against fascists when the broader populace doesn't actively sympathize with said fascists. Note that this strategy is not something that is restricted solely to Democratic leadership - smaller political movements can do it too! If that's not seen as being realistically possible, then the only alternative option is to put everything we have into winning the hearts and minds of police departments and military leaders, no matter how much sucking up and praise and special privileges and bribery it takes. Because if peacefully convincing half the population to not support fascists is seen as outright impossible, to the point where we laugh it off without even seriously considering it, then the only ways to stop fascism are military dictatorship or civil war. And both options are absolutely hopeless without the strong support of law enforcement and the security state.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:19
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Ginni Thomas was personally emailing lawmakers to overturn the election results. https://twitter.com/roigfranzia/status/1535295261244792835?s=21&t=L5y3t8drRItjhK_SohLmtw Paywalled and I’m phone posting. 29 of them. Twenty. Nine. quote:Virginia “Ginni” Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, pressed 29 Republican state lawmakers in Arizona — 27 more than previously known — to set aside Joe Biden’s popular vote victory and “choose” presidential electors, according to emails obtained by The Washington Post. Now she used some Fox News grandpa email spammer to send them all and didn’t (as far as we know) personally dictate individual letters. Still another wtf mark for her husband not recusing himself. I’m old enough to remember when Colin Powell never ran for office because of concerns about his wife.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:21
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Oracle posted:Unfortunately so is about half the country, and that half has constant reinforcement in the form of Fox News and rightwing media to tell them that yes, their fears and persecution complexes are valid and they are very much being targeted for their beliefs, look at how they're going after your former president who was on your side. Is it correct? No, but if you haven't figured out by now that just because something is false doesn't mean people won't act on it as if it were true, I don't know what to tell you. Did Trump actually commit the crimes he's being accused of? After last night it sure as hell looks that way. But the perception of targeted prosecution is a consideration regardless of whether or not its true, and it can be drummed up to be persecution and political quite easily. It's of 0 value to worry how the right might frame something given that they'll just as happily make it up out of whole cloth. The thoughts of the right wing are meaningless and buying into their framing only makes bad arguments. Law and order is not now and has never been a thing. Bel Shazar fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 18:24
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Oracle posted:Unfortunately so is about half the country, and that half has constant reinforcement in the form of Fox News and rightwing media to tell them that yes, their fears and persecution complexes are valid and they are very much being targeted for their beliefs, look at how they're going after your former president who was on your side. Is it correct? No, but if you haven't figured out by now that just because something is false doesn't mean people won't act on it as if it were true, I don't know what to tell you. Did Trump actually commit the crimes he's being accused of? After last night it sure as hell looks that way. But the perception of targeted prosecution is a consideration regardless of whether or not its true, and it can be drummed up to be persecution and political quite easily. Yeah, flip that. The people who believe in might make right understand reality. That is the reality of the world. Laws are a big fantasy we create because that reality sucks and is cruel. The longer we stay in that fantasy without taking action that will outlaw fascists and push them to the fringe the worse the reckoning will be. Look at Russia as an example, Putin's regime is the direct result of not properly punishing failed right wing coups in an attempt to keep peace. Stopping the laws to be a fascist and stopping the laws temporarily to kick out the fascists is not the same thing and is a lie taught to you by fascists so that you don't punish them. You're afraid of civil war so you're arguing for what will end in a peaceful transfer of power to fascists. That's not going to be better.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:24
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https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1535311120734429184?t=atAK_u1OGGwPTqQrP-Fm8Q&s=19 An insane detached statement. I think now is a good time to point out that decreasing the government deficit by decreasing government spending lowers GDP. One of the big lines they are currently touting is they plan to reduce spending in this summer aka Q2! You also do not want to decrease spending while heading into or being in a recession. Unless you are purposely causing that recession. The tax increases would help. Usa refining production is running over 95%. It has been for about 2 months now. It is not keeping up with demand and will cause more breakdowns like what happened in Freeport if this continues. Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 18:24
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Mr Hootington posted:https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1535311120734429184?t=atAK_u1OGGwPTqQrP-Fm8Q&s=19 But like...... What has this administration done to slow inflation?
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Jun 10, 2022 18:30
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, there's two viable paths. Alternately leftists could start mass joining said police departments which are having historic staffing issues (up to 30% vacancies in some places). The military seems to be more reasonable (at least some branches) when it comes to upholding democracy (and LGBT issues, and climate change). Probably has something to do with understanding the dangers of believing your own propaganda (as Russia is finding out to its detriment in Ukraine).
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Jun 10, 2022 18:31
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Gumball Gumption posted:Yeah, flip that. The people who believe in might make right understand reality. That is the reality of the world. Laws are a big fantasy we create because that reality sucks and is cruel. The longer we stay in that fantasy without taking action that will outlaw fascists and push them to the fringe the worse the reckoning will be. Look at Russia as an example, Putin's regime is the direct result of not properly punishing failed right wing coups in an attempt to keep peace. Stopping the laws to be a fascist and stopping the laws temporarily to kick out the fascists is not the same thing and is a lie taught to you by fascists so that you don't punish them. You're afraid of civil war so you're arguing for what will end in a peaceful transfer of power to fascists. That's not going to be better. Like I said, there are no good options to fix this right now.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:32
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FizFashizzle posted:Ginni Thomas was personally emailing lawmakers to overturn the election results. So are they going to do anything about her?
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Jun 10, 2022 18:35
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The Bananana posted:But like...... With the stock market going down they’ll probably print another 3 trillion, flush it down the toilet to billionaires then blame people earning more for inflation
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Jun 10, 2022 18:37
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Mr Hootington posted:https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1535311120734429184?t=atAK_u1OGGwPTqQrP-Fm8Q&s=19 Given what people like Powell and Summers are saying, it honestly seems like the administration is embracing the idea of forcing a recession to fight inflation.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:39
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Oracle posted:Alternately leftists could start mass joining said police departments which are having historic staffing issues (up to 30% vacancies in some places). The military seems to be more reasonable (at least some branches) when it comes to upholding democracy (and LGBT issues, and climate change). Probably has something to do with understanding the dangers of believing your own propaganda (as Russia is finding out to its detriment in Ukraine). I think my brain is bleeding from No, we can't just put Trump in jail because it's a slippery slope but yes, we can have leftists join the police to sabotage until we're in a position where we can comfortably remove fascists from society without it hurting too much.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:40
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Nucleic Acids posted:Given what people like Powell and Summers are saying, it honestly seems like the administration is embracing the idea of forcing a recession to fight inflation. Biden has called for it in weasel speak repeatedly in economic speeches during the couple of months. Most recently this last week he said he wants and will let the fed do its job to get inflstion under control. Powell is going to engineer one because the fed can only control inflation by demand destruction. It has been the plan since December 2021.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:45
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Oracle posted:Alternately leftists could start mass joining said police departments which are having historic staffing issues (up to 30% vacancies in some places). The military seems to be more reasonable (at least some branches) when it comes to upholding democracy (and LGBT issues, and climate change). Probably has something to do with understanding the dangers of believing your own propaganda (as Russia is finding out to its detriment in Ukraine). If I am remembering right the cop that stood by and watched as George Floyd was murdered was one such person that wanted to make a difference from within?
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Jun 10, 2022 18:49
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Gatts posted:With the stock market going down they’ll probably print another 3 trillion, flush it down the toilet to billionaires then blame people earning more for inflation I know what you mean here, but I like to think you are being literal in that billionaires live in the sewer system like menacing clowns.
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Jun 10, 2022 18:50
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Oracle posted:Alternately leftists could start mass joining said police departments which are having historic staffing issues (up to 30% vacancies in some places). They'd have to be very determined liars to make it past the interview stage or psych profile let alone fabricating the "background check" aka "did they play high school football?"
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Jun 10, 2022 19:05
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Man, this thread is always down on Biden and anyone to the right of Bernie. Look, Biden is tackling inflation. For one he asked companies not to charge more. Also the January 6th investigation might have a huge impact on the election in November. People might be so riled up that Republicans will be punished by only taking the house.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:07
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Push El Burrito posted:Man, this thread is always down on Biden and anyone to the right of Bernie. Look, Biden is tackling inflation. For one he asked companies not to charge more. 
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Jun 10, 2022 19:12
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Keyser_Soze posted:They'd have to be very determined liars to make it past the interview stage or psych profile let alone fabricating the "background check" aka "did they play high school football?" I'm not sure this idea is really a winner, but any path to actually surviving this poo poo is going to require a lot of determination.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:17
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think my brain is bleeding from No, we can't just put Trump in jail because it's a slippery slope but yes, we can have leftists join the police to sabotage until we're in a position where we can comfortably remove fascists from society without it hurting too much. Right? I can't think of a more stupid strategy. Maybe the centrists who insist on shoveling more & more money to police till they stop murdering people should join instead & enjoy the fruits of their unconditional support. Keyser_Soze posted:They'd have to be very determined liars to make it past the interview stage or psych profile let alone fabricating the "background check" aka "did they play high school football?" This too.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:21
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Main Paineframe posted:Well, there's two viable paths. There's a non-voting population in America too. Pretty large one, I think. A third option is to turn them against fascists. Ultimately Republicans are a minority, and from recent results, a clear one. But they're united and reliable, whereas Democrats are a self-consuming hydra with vastly differing priorities, and their voting behavior is based on anything from comfortable self-interest to massive desperation. The answer to that is to look at what GOP uses to build it's unified, reliable voter base, then increase that same thing in everyone who isn't them.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:36
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Gumball Gumption posted:I think my brain is bleeding from No, we can't just put Trump in jail because it's a slippery slope but yes, we can have leftists join the police to sabotage until we're in a position where we can comfortably remove fascists from society without it hurting too much. I didn't say we couldn't put Trump in jail, I said Biden appearing to sic the DOJ on Trump and his cronies would not end well. Oracle fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 19:40
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Srice posted:If I am remembering right the cop that stood by and watched as George Floyd was murdered was one such person that wanted to make a difference from within? A cop is not going to do much. 30% of the force would be in a position to do a lot more than one cop.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:40
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Oracle posted:I didn't say we couldn't put in Trump jail, I said Biden appearing to sic the DOJ on Trump and his cronies would not end well. Making it explicitly legal for politicians to break any laws they want is worse
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Jun 10, 2022 19:42
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Oracle posted:I didn't say we couldn't put in Trump jail, I said Biden appearing to sic the DOJ on Trump and his cronies would not end well. Your slippery slope is "making sure our legal system keeps people accountable is a bad look," right? Is the main point that we can put Trump in jail but Biden being in charge is a bad look? This is unclear. Oracle posted:A cop is not going to do much. 30% of the force would be in a position to do a lot more than one cop. There were three cops watching so that one person is 25% of the cops. Why is 30% the magic number? The Sean fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 19:45
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BiggerBoat posted:"There. See what happens when we pay workers more money?" You're confusing political "economists" with economists. Most economists think people should be paid more money and that's good for the economy. But policy setters don't.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:46
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The Sean posted:Your slippery slope is "making sure our legal system keeps people accountable is a bad look," right? Is the main point that we can put Trump in jail but Biden being in charge is a bad look? This is unclear. This is not rocket science; people are calling for Biden to 'sic the Justice Department on Trump.' That is patently illegal and dangerous to boot and a reason Trump was impeached the first time (and why Comey was fired). The Attorney General is not the president's attack dog.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:50
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Oracle posted:This is not rocket science; people are calling for Biden to 'sic the Justice Department on Trump.' That is patently illegal and dangerous to boot and a reason Trump was impeached the first time (and why Comey was fired). The Attorney General is not the president's attack dog. Can you source how the justice system prosecuting crimes is illegal? That part isn't making sense to me. Also, engineering has nothing to do with this. Not sure why you brought that up. Also this is completely different than what Trump did. You can't prove that but I invite you to do so. Hillary didn't inspire an insurrection. The Sean fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 19:51
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Oracle posted:This is not rocket science; people are calling for Biden to 'sic the Justice Department on Trump.' That is patently illegal and dangerous to boot and a reason Trump was impeached the first time (and why Comey was fired). The Attorney General is not the president's attack dog. Yes, it would be bad for the AG to be explicitly partisan and go on fishing expeditions on any political opponents. I don't think anyone here is asking for that, because Trump is blatantly criminal and broke a lot of laws flagrantly and publicly. It would be worse to turn a blind eye to politicians committing crimes in plain sight.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:52
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Lemming posted:Yes, it would be bad for the AG to be explicitly partisan and go on fishing expeditions on any political opponents. I don't think anyone here is asking for that, because Trump is blatantly criminal and broke a lot of laws flagrantly and publicly. It would be worse to turn a blind eye to politicians committing crimes in plain sight. I think the ship sailed on this one with "we tortured some folks".
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Jun 10, 2022 19:56
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Jaxyon posted:You're confusing political "economists" with economists. How can I tell the difference? Larry Summers was (is?) at Harvard and he has been braying to impoverish the people to reduce inflation for months now.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:57
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I think the ship sailed on this one with "we tortured some folks". Obviously the present reality is that politicians are above the law, it's bad though, and that example shows how hosed it is. It's stupid to keep it up! I know it's because both sides are riddled with criminals who don't want to be investigated, but that's also the real reason, not because decorum is intrinsically important, that's just the excuse they give the public to use
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Jun 10, 2022 19:58
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Lemming posted:Yes, it would be bad for the AG to be explicitly partisan and go on fishing expeditions on any political opponents. I don't think anyone here is asking for that, because Trump is blatantly criminal and broke a lot of laws flagrantly and publicly. It would be worse to turn a blind eye to politicians committing crimes in plain sight. Yes, it would be bad for Biden to ask the AG to out hunting for a political opponent. It would also be good for the Justice Dept to go after blatant criminals. Biden doesn't need to get involved, but the justice dept should.
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Jun 10, 2022 19:58
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Oracle posted:This is not rocket science; people are calling for Biden to 'sic the Justice Department on Trump.' That is patently illegal and dangerous to boot and a reason Trump was impeached the first time (and why Comey was fired). The Attorney General is not the president's attack dog. It would be so weird if the Attorney General worked for the president. Oh, wait. "The Judiciary Act of 1789 created the Office of the Attorney General which evolved over the years into the head of the Department of Justice and chief law enforcement officer of the Federal Government. The Attorney General represents the United States in legal matters generally and gives advice and opinions to the President and to the heads of the executive departments of the Government when so requested." https://www.justice.gov/ag/about-office
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Jun 10, 2022 19:58
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