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Valve Steam Deck posted:Hold up, are you calling a create-a-character a "Mary Sue" now? Do you know what a Mary Sue is? Isn't that what an all-powerful self insert is? Or does it have to be a self-insert of the author (i.e. the devs) and not the player?
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Jun 10, 2022 21:44
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Kibayasu posted:Well the ending cutscene of the first game was some amount of time after the end of the game part of the game so that’s probably the “directly” it’s following. I’m also assuming it’s a very much “we have to hide what you can do” situation and you won’t be flinging rat tornadoes at not-Catholics PT1 was so good 
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Jun 10, 2022 21:46
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deep dish peat moss posted:(Edit: Oops there's one gameplay screenshot which shows that it's also a deckbuilder
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Jun 10, 2022 21:53
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deep dish peat moss posted:Just a heads up, if anyone is expecting this to be a Marvel X-Com temper your expectations now: Ooof, I want to be positive, but none of this sounds good.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:55
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I mean create a characters are Mary Sues, I thought that was the point. If they aren’t then a named character works better in ever situation
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Jun 10, 2022 21:56
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Propaganda Hour posted:PT1 was so good I had some issues with the stealth but rats-as-magic is a very good hook.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:06
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Well for one a Mary Sue is a woman, and create a characters can be men or women or maybe even more. For another, a Mary Sue has specific narrative conventions and requirements attached and while a create a character is necessarily a player self insert around which the narrative will revolve, the other conventions may not necessarily apply. The whole point of a game is challenge and growth after all, so by definition you're not going to start out with everyone loving you or thinking you're great and being competent at everything, otherwise there's no game there.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:06
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Valve Steam Deck posted:Hold up, are you calling a create-a-character a "Mary Sue" now? Do you know what a Mary Sue is? The reason I said Mary Sue is because the character in question is: 1) An unheard-of young woman 2) That you don't create, you just pick her powers 3) And she is the key to defeating an ancient power that all of the marvel superheroes combined couldn't defeat without her 4) Because she is (iirc) the big bad evil villain's daughter who is secretly thousands of years old, or something like that (going off an interview I read a year ago here) I was going with the fanfic theme since I also called the game Disney-sanctioned fanfic, and The Hunter is the mary sue that the fanfic writers (Firaxis) inserted as the new-to-the-superhero-business-but-all-powerful protagonist who solves everything 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 22:15
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I have never seen a create a character we’re you have to grow unless you are being literal and mean gain more levels. They are just the characters that come in and solve all the situations the previous characters are unable to solve for no real reason other than they are the player insert. The definition of a Mary Sue
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Jun 10, 2022 22:20
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I honestly don't really care about the new Marvel Xcom but I especially don't care about those reasons not to care about it.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:25
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Mary Sue is supposed to refer to the author's incongruous self-insert character, not the reader's (or in this case player's). If anything, the player character is the one character in the game that fundamentally cannot be considered a Mary Sue.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:29
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But most create a characters give you options that let you pick how your involved how is that in any way different outside just trying to adhere to a strict definition for no real benefit
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Jun 10, 2022 22:31
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Volte posted:Mary Sue is supposed to refer to the author's incongruous self-insert character, not the reader's (or in this case player's). If anything, the player character is the one character in the game that fundamentally cannot be considered a Mary Sue. What if the self-insert character is also the first person narrator? Then the video game player's actions could still be the self-insert gratification of the creator. This is getting into some deep epistemological poo poo.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:31
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the last time I read a Marvel comic it was about a character named Cindy Moon, a.k.a. Silk, whose superpower was that she and Spider-Man really really wanted to gently caress
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Jun 10, 2022 22:31
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Hwurmp posted:the last time I read a Marvel comic it was about a character named Cindy Moon, a.k.a. Silk, whose superpower was that she and Spider-Man really really wanted to gently caress That was Dan Slott and once the character got out of his hands that plot line died quickly
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Jun 10, 2022 22:33
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Volte posted:Mary Sue is supposed to refer to the author's incongruous self-insert character, not the reader's (or in this case player's). If anything, the player character is the one character in the game that fundamentally cannot be considered a Mary Sue. This argument is extremely dumb all around and I'm sorry for making a post that started it but the character in this case is explicitly not a character created by the players and it is not a character representative of the player, it is the writer-inserted protagonist that is one of 12 characters that the player plays as, and the that the narrative centers around because they can defeat a foe too strong from the entire Marvel Superhero universe to defeat, despite them being a complete unknown with secret ancient demon girl powers. e: I think maybe what caused confusion is that I said "Mary Sue self-insert" but the "self" I was referring to is not the player, it is the writer of the metaphorical fanfiction that this game is which I didn't make much more clear initially and I can totally see how in the context of a video-game discussion the phrase "self-insert" makes one think of create-a-character deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 22:33
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i think "mary sue" and "self insert" are terms that can overlap but don't necessarily mean the same thing as each other. mary sues are characters that can do anything and everything and whatever flaws they have are superficial. a self-insert is someone explicitly sticking a stand-in for themselves in something. a character can be one or the other or both or neither
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Jun 10, 2022 22:38
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The 7th Guest posted:
This seems like a decent Slay the Spire clone. It has pretty good production values. It could use some tooltips, but that's probably an EA thing. The demo let's you run through a single level, stopping right before the "Tyrant" at the end. Very StS.  The string of icons at the bottom is the map of the level, sometimes you can choose between forks, much like StS.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:50
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deep dish peat moss posted:The reason I said Mary Sue is because the character in question is: deep dish peat moss posted:3) And she is the key to defeating an ancient power that all of the marvel superheroes combined couldn't defeat without her
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Jun 10, 2022 22:55
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Mary Sue is also anymore very overused in online discussions and too often just as a lazy way to say someone dislikes something. In this context it is definitely not the writer's weirdo insert character but the bog-standard game dev concept of making the player powerful and impactful. In a game full of Iron Mens and what have you unless you are playing those heroes the player is likely relegated to watching them do the big stuff ala WoW where the player's party/raid fight a bunch of things and then watch a powerful character actually solve it. You could make a fine game around that concept but it's not terribly appropriate to a dumb super hero story so you need to make the player uniquely powerful and not just Captain America's weapon caddy. In these kinds of games since the writing generally sucks I don't think premade characters are worth the loss of gameplay flexibility. I'd be excited about assembling my own squad of super powered weirdos but everything about this seems boring to me. City of Heroes the tactical rpg would be way goofier and more fun. edit: posted below that the character is actually player designed makes this pretty straightforward to me
FuzzySlippers fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 23:06
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Valve Steam Deck posted:Wait a sec, they said back when they revealed it that you can create and design your own character, and they've used gender neutral language and called said character "the hunter" ever since. Did this change at some point? Is your create a character now stuck to the design on the box? Oh, you're right - all the preview material showed a specific female character but it turns out you can choose their gender and skin tone but nothing else about them. My mistake, I didn't know that! Anyway my post that stemmed all of this was making fun of the game for being a fanfic, because it is literally a fanfic, there was no writing collaboration with Marvel, Firaxis are fans of the "Rise of the Midnight Sons" comic series and wrote their own fictional version of it, and created the character The Hunter as their fanfic protagonist who all the superheroes of the Marvelverse need to ask for help. This was posted with a comedic slant because this is a comedy website forum and therefore I tend to post with a comedic slant, so I continued the fanfiction metaphor by calling the author-created protagonist a Mary Sue - a term that is adjacent to author-created insert characters in fanfiction. I'm sorry that this caused such a big derail but most of this discussion happened at least one full page after my post and nothing from my original post was quoted except for me saying "mary sue" so most of the people now discussing it should know that what they are discussing is a joke about the game being fanfic, which is now impossible to find comedic because it has been explained with such granularity. I will avoid using terms like "mary sue" in the future because it's clear that it sparks derails and debates and precision of language grows increasingly important in humor in order to more clearly demarcate it from ignorance and bigotry 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 23:14
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deep dish peat moss posted:Anyway my post that stemmed all of this was making fun of the game for being a fanfic, because it is literally a fanfic, there was no writing collaboration with Marvel Ah yes, the internally consistent Marvel Universe which has never had retcons, contradicting publications, spin-offs or alternate dimensions
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Jun 10, 2022 23:26
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They could fill two slots with Jonny Blaze and the Spirit Of Vengeance.
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Jun 10, 2022 23:30
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Here is the real reason I'm so mad about Midnight Suns, when I first heard about it I thought "superhero x-com is one of the best ideas I've ever heard!" and then I found out that's not what it is:deep dish peat moss posted:Marvel Midnight Suns would be one billion times more exciting if they didn't use iconic Marvel superheroes and instead either dropped the license or gave us nameless nobodies that can actually die.
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Jun 10, 2022 23:35
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ten months later and you are still put-out that you cannot slaughter your forces
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Jun 10, 2022 23:37
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deep dish peat moss posted:Here is the real reason I'm so mad about Midnight Suns, when I first heard about it I thought "superhero x-com is one of the best ideas I've ever heard!" and then I found out that's not what it is: I dunno, you seem to hate the created character aspect while also lamenting the fact that it's not an entire team of created characters. I'm curious about Midnight Suns as I like tactics and superheroes, I haven't played one of those since Freedom Force.
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Jun 10, 2022 23:39
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AngryBooch posted:I dunno, you seem to hate the created character aspect while also lamenting the fact that it's not an entire team of created characters. As I've pointed out in my posts, you may want to temper your expectations (edit: spelling out the context to help alleviate your confusion: temper your expectations about it being a tactics game) because Midnight Suns is a narrative-focused friendship simulator and deck builder, and firaxis has hinted at it not being much of a tactics game. Also it doesn't feature any player-created characters. If you read my posts you would also probably recognize that there's not much "hate" in them beyond jokes about how bad the game is going to be 
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 23:44
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deep dish peat moss posted:As I've pointed out in my posts, you may want to temper your expectations because Midnight Suns is a narrative-focused friendship simulator and deck builder, and firaxis has hinted at it not being much of a tactics game. Also it doesn't feature any player-created characters. If you read my posts you would also probably recognize that there's not much "hate" in them beyond jokes about how bad the game is going to be Yeah, I like all that poo poo.
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Jun 10, 2022 23:45
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Oh, cool, it sounds like you might like the game then and I'm sorry for mistaking the part of your post about you liking tactics games as meaning that you were hoping it was a tactics game 
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Jun 10, 2022 23:49
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What the gently caress is a "create a character" and is it like a Character Creator?
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Jun 11, 2022 00:04
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I think the key thing to get mad or glad about regarding Midnight Suns is that it was rumored as "Marvel Superhero Xcom from Firaxis, the makers of Xcom" and then they confirmed the rumors but it turns out that it's a Slay the Spire type of game instead and Slay the Spire is a fun and well designed game, perhaps less so its many clones, but if you were hyped for "Marvel Superhero Xcom" this ain't it and that's a shame since we're not getting any other Superhero Xcom games on the horizon. On the other hand if you love Slay the Spire and wanted a Marvel Superhero version of that you have every reason to be glad. deep dish peat moss posted:Oh, you're right - all the preview material showed a specific female character but it turns out you can choose their gender and skin tone but nothing else about them. My mistake, I didn't know that! deep dish peat moss posted:Here is the real reason I'm so mad about Midnight Suns, when I first heard about it I thought "superhero x-com is one of the best ideas I've ever heard!" and then I found out that's not what it is: Sab669 posted:What the gently caress is a "create a character" and is it like a Character Creator? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJaioZiBn7Y Assepoester fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 00:04
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It is starting to sound a little like X-Men: Destiny, from the character perspective at least.
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Jun 11, 2022 00:08
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deep dish peat moss posted:Oh, cool, it sounds like you might like the game then and I'm sorry for mistaking the part of your post about you liking tactics games as meaning that you were hoping it was a tactics game I mean the gameplay video makes it look like at least somewhat like a tactics game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R7_mrxDEeA
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Jun 11, 2022 00:17
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Lissen here bud if the game is moddable and i can eventually play goku teams up with spider man while he dates dr doom i will buy it e: Cyclops mod where all of his dialog lines are changed to "JEAN!!!!" Diephoon fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 00:33
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Zachack posted:I mean the gameplay video makes it look like at least somewhat like a tactics game: I've been meaning to post this video. Based on what they show, it still sounds pretty good to me besides the whole "Talking to characters around the base to build relationships so you can unlock cards" and having a creatable character as a protagonist. Should have just made Blade (or whoever was the main POV in the original comic) the main character.
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Jun 11, 2022 00:47
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Midnight Suns looks cool and I appreciate Magik and Nico Minoru getting some drat screentime. Other than that bad movie that had Magik. And I guess the Runaways show I didn't watch.
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Jun 11, 2022 00:47
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So other than this Marvel game which will apparently be amazing what are other good nu Xcom style games?
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Jun 11, 2022 00:47
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deep dish peat moss posted:Oh, cool, it sounds like you might like the game then and I'm sorry for mistaking the part of your post about you liking tactics games as meaning that you were hoping it was a tactics game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Qf1ueyh1w Here's a 30 minute mission with Magik, Spider-Man and a custom Hunter. Very evocative of Slay the Spire with a lot of positioning elements within each skirmish, especially with Magik as her main skills look like they are about placing portals in a location, then kicking an enemy through the other side so they collide with other enemies or environmental hazards. It seems pretty tactical to me but I do enjoy the occasional card games like Spire, Inscryption, Magic the Gathering, etc.
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Jun 11, 2022 01:06
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AngryBooch posted:Here's a 30 minute mission with Magik, Spider-Man and a custom Hunter. Very evocative of Slay the Spire I don't see it at all.
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Jun 11, 2022 01:09
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ChrisopherOdd's video took me from super meh on the game since it was announced to at least mildly interested. If the systems seem to hold up across the entire game I could see picking it up a bit on sale instead of just never buying it. A lot of the abilities look fun to use and like good puzzle pieces.
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