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Arquinsiel posted:Solid odds he went to the board and said "this guy wants an answer now" and they said "fine, tell him to gently caress himself" when you set a deadline. Considering that getting anything from their board seems to have a turnaround of multiple days, I doubt he managed to get a gently caress off in half an hour or however long it was between my email and his call.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:24
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SEKCobra posted:Considering that getting anything from their board seems to have a turnaround of multiple days, I doubt he managed to get a gently caress off in half an hour or however long it was between my email and his call. You can get a no way faster than you can get the whole board to meet.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:31
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SEKCobra posted:Considering that getting anything from their board seems to have a turnaround of multiple days, I doubt he managed to get a gently caress off in half an hour or however long it was between my email and his call. You'd be surprised. Hiring decisions where you're deciding between a few candidates can take a while if people have opinions and different needs. Striking one from the list can take minutes.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:31
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Huh, guess so. Rather not work at a place that works like that in any case, so if that is the reason I wouldn't mind.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:44
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Arquinsiel posted:Solid odds he went to the board and said "this guy wants an answer now" and they said "fine, tell him to gently caress himself" when you set a deadline. Eh, I think more likely he got the bad news a while ago and was pushing off delivering it.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:44
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Thanks for all the good advice, though I probably like this one the most  Lockback posted:Or just say you can't take the job because you're going to jail.
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Jun 10, 2022 13:59
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I have seen at least one situation where the hiring team was struggling to decide and one small thing seemed to tip the scales real quick (something along the lines of “I look forward to working with you,” which I think had an overconfident feel). They dropped that person really quickly. Even a small detail to help swing things is less stress for them to decide in the end, so I could see that happening pretty frequently. Intangibles, indigestion, whatever tips the balance.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:00
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So, they dodged a bullet there? e: to clarify, that phrase was probably uttered by ~80% of the candidates I interviewed and seems to be up there with "tell me a little bit about the company/team?" as their opening question. gbut fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 16:10
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:I have seen at least one situation where the hiring team was struggling to decide and one small thing seemed to tip the scales real quick (something along the lines of “I look forward to working with you,” which I think had an overconfident feel). They dropped that person really quickly. Harsh beans - dropping someone who looked forward to working with them? No, everyone must be miserable at all times to work here!
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Jun 10, 2022 16:13
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:I have seen at least one situation where the hiring team was struggling to decide and one small thing seemed to tip the scales real quick (something along the lines of “I look forward to working with you,” which I think had an overconfident feel). They dropped that person really quickly. In other words they just didn't like the guy and their brain rationalized it with whatever material was handy, as brains do.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:21
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Realistically if you've got a few top candidates they would probably all do a fine job and there's really not much other than tiny bullshit or flipping a coin left to decide.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:39
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Xguard86 posted:Realistically if you've got a few top candidates they would probably all do a fine job and there's really not much other than tiny bullshit or flipping a coin left to decide. THUNDERDOME - Two men enter, one man leave.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:51
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Xguard86 posted:Realistically if you've got a few top candidates they would probably all do a fine job and there's really not much other than tiny bullshit or flipping a coin left to decide. We always invite candidates to a meet and greet/look at our stuff day if we are considering them seriously, we would not drop a candidate before that or make a decision without it.
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Jun 10, 2022 17:01
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deported to Canada posted:Harsh beans - dropping someone who looked forward to working with them? No, everyone must be miserable at all times to work here! I always felt like it could’ve been read as presumption they’d be the one picked but obviously cannot be sure. But absolutely rationalizing, yes.
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Jun 10, 2022 17:03
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There's a good chance I may get an offer for a technical recruiting position focusing on mid to senior level dev ops. I keep up with the thread, but would some of you mind sharing your frustrations with recruiters and what you look for in an offer (besides salary of course)? Would you consider a lower paying position with better benefits if the total comp came out higher, or is the current market just so bonkers there's no reason to do so?
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Jun 10, 2022 21:10
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Parallelwoody posted:There's a good chance I may get an offer for a technical recruiting position focusing on mid to senior level dev ops. I keep up with the thread, but would some of you mind sharing your frustrations with recruiters and what you look for in an offer (besides salary of course)? Would you consider a lower paying position with better benefits if the total comp came out higher, or is the current market just so bonkers there's no reason to do so? Only thing that matters is total comp and split of base vs equity. And the timing of equity. "Benefits" like lunch do not typically factor in a whole lot. I do not calculate medical benefits in my total comp, but also do not have any persistent long term health conditions. If you try to use medical benefits in your comp discussions I will laugh at you.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:14
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leper khan posted:If you try to use medical benefits in your comp discussions I will laugh at you. Does it not matter in some countries? I’m in Canada so I don’t care apart from pharma/dental care, but if I were in the states I expect it’d be a huge deal in case I got cancer or had a bad car accident or whatever.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:19
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Evis posted:Does it not matter in some countries? I’m in Canada so I don’t care apart from pharma/dental care, but if I were in the states I expect it’d be a huge deal in case I got cancer or had a bad car accident or whatever. Basically every position has fully paid medical and dental. I'm not going to shave corners on a 15 vs 20 copay or 8000 vs 10000 out of pocket max or w/e
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Jun 10, 2022 21:20
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Not every employer has fully paid medical, it's not uncommon to have the employee pay some of the cost, less common for single but extremely common for partners and dependents. Both deductible and max OOP can add up if you have any expected medical expenses. The other two benefits that are worth a lot are vacation and 401k matching. In total, a difference in benefits could be $20k+ and is definitely something that you should be looking at and comparing. If offers are close and one offers trash benefits then it may be better to take the lower offer with better benefits and telling the higher offer that you need more if they want you to accept is perfectly acceptable. Edit: Benefits are part of comp. Laughing at someone that is using them in the negotiation is completely out of touch unless you know for a fact that your benefits are better than anyone else. asur fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 21:29
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leper khan posted:If you try to use medical benefits in your comp discussions I will laugh at you. Medical that is 100% covered with no deductible is better than a job that pays you 10k more but you'll end up spending 15k more on healthcare costs. Why would you laugh at that? Look at everything and assign everything a value. Salary isn't a high score, find a job that maximizes your happiness.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:41
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And I just saw the post about how "every company gives fully paid medical and dental?" My dude, what?? Lots of people don't work West coast tech jobs.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:42
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PTO schedules would also be a lever Parallelwoody might be able to use, right?
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Jun 10, 2022 21:45
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Wait what? Good god this thread and subforum is out of touch sometimes. Fully paid medical is not even close to the majority of situations... I work for a $bigcompany and my employee share is a bit under $100 / mo for a HDHP. I imagine this is far and away the most common arrangement for white collar US workers. (employee/employer cost share of premium with deductibles and copays fully under responsibility of the employee)
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Jun 10, 2022 21:45
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Parallelwoody posted:There's a good chance I may get an offer for a technical recruiting position focusing on mid to senior level dev ops. I keep up with the thread, but would some of you mind sharing your frustrations with recruiters and what you look for in an offer (besides salary of course)? Would you consider a lower paying position with better benefits if the total comp came out higher, or is the current market just so bonkers there's no reason to do so? I'm a software engineer, not devops, but I imagine this still applies: our internal recruiters were surprised to hear from my team recently that we get numerous recruiter emails a week and delete 90% of them without reading past the subject. My advice is to include the comp range and any noteworthy benefits (especially WFH) in your initial email.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:46
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Parallelwoody posted:There's a good chance I may get an offer for a technical recruiting position focusing on mid to senior level dev ops. I keep up with the thread, but would some of you mind sharing your frustrations with recruiters and what you look for in an offer (besides salary of course)? Would you consider a lower paying position with better benefits if the total comp came out higher, or is the current market just so bonkers there's no reason to do so? One frustrating thing is when people send me messages on, say, LinkedIn without showing they've even bothered reading my profile. If you're recruiting for a cloud computing position, I want to know that you're doing this aware that I have no experience in the field, and that the position will include on-the-job training for it because it's more important that I've done C++ dev for several years, say, or anything else I have actually done. I can read companies` boilerplate job postings myself, I don't need that in my inbox.
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Jun 10, 2022 21:52
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Edly posted:I'm a software engineer, not devops, but I imagine this still applies: our internal recruiters were surprised to hear from my team recently that we get numerous recruiter emails a week and delete 90% of them without reading past the subject. My advice is to include the comp range and any noteworthy benefits (especially WFH) in your initial email.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:17
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I'm kind of over WFH. It's preferable to open plans, but I'd much rather have a private office or team room outside my house. Way easier to set boundaries.
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Jun 10, 2022 22:23
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I appreciate the replies. I figured starting off with the comp range would keep from wasting time, and thankfully this company is focused on quality over quantity, so I'd have time and reason to actually review LinkedIn profiles vs shotgunning job ads out to anyone with dev in their title. Out of further curiosity, what would the offer need to be to consider a contract position? Texa$ money and a lovely current work environment? Or are there enough offers floating around that's not even necessary?
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Jun 10, 2022 22:28
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Oilfield is the only fully paid insurance I’ve had/seen. Lots of big companies really seem to pass the buck to the employee with high premiums and high deductible, etc. so I’d be wary of getting screwed over versus finding that golden goose.
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Jun 11, 2022 00:00
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Parallelwoody posted:I appreciate the replies. I figured starting off with the comp range would keep from wasting time, and thankfully this company is focused on quality over quantity, so I'd have time and reason to actually review LinkedIn profiles vs shotgunning job ads out to anyone with dev in their title. Out of further curiosity, what would the offer need to be to consider a contract position? Texa$ money and a lovely current work environment? Or are there enough offers floating around that's not even necessary? I knew a guy that was a pretty good dev and only wanted contracts. He had insurance through his wife and wanted the extra cash + zero corporate bullshit that comes with contracting. So, I'm guessing that's probably the demo you're looking for, although I have no idea how to find that from scratch. This guy was on the director's list from previously working together.
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Jun 11, 2022 00:37
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leper khan posted:I'm kind of over WFH. It's preferable to open plans, but I'd much rather have a private office or team room outside my house. Way easier to set boundaries. I'd be down for a private office, but without becoming a manager that is nearly impossible around here, so wfh is a must for me.
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Jun 11, 2022 03:24
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SEKCobra posted:I'd be down for a private office, but without becoming a manager that is nearly impossible around here, so wfh is a must for me. Just become a manager! Bing bong so simple. Trouble is even with a swanky private office the company will probably still buy some garbage chair that sucks to sit in for more than a couple hours so it'll still suck.
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Jun 11, 2022 03:39
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I don't care how nice their chairs are or how awesome the office is or how private my amazing corner office with a panoramic view of the downtown of your favorite high COL city is. Unless I can walk to my kitchen in like fifteen seconds, naked, eat lunch while I'm working, and then decide to take a nap on my couch during my lunch, all without ever managing to put pants on, it's not going to be as good as WFH. We'll just ignore the fact that I'm not sacrificing two and a half hours of my life per day on the altar of commuting, not paying hundreds of dollars a month in travel expenses, and that this is the healthiest I've been in YEARS (holy poo poo no annual cold/flu/etc cycle has been great) as irrelevant for now. Even just being able to work in a loving t-shirt is just wonderful. I've got a button down that lives on a chair near my work desk that I throw on if I need to be on camera but goddamn that's rare too. People have just gotten used to my black screen.
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Jun 11, 2022 03:52
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Cyrano4747 posted:I don't care how nice their chairs are or how awesome the office is or how private my amazing corner office with a panoramic view of the downtown of your favorite high COL city is. Oh, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. Hell, even just being able to open the windows and get some fresh air is amazing. I suspect that windows in high-rises don't open. I get the value of in-person collaboration, but I feel it's incredibly overstated. Could probably get 80%+ of that with just 1-2 days in person a month, if everyone was just scheduled to meet up at the same time or whatever.
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Jun 11, 2022 03:59
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Having done so many interviews, the real gems are the companies that either don't have or dissuade wfh, it really is a blaring red alarm of 'our leadership needs to be in control of your life or we might not be able to maximize our perceived work'. Like, the fact that wfh is "not really allowed" for IT because the head of the company (which includes bus drivers and all types of jobs) dislikes it is just insane to me. I am real glad to see that most places allow 50% and I have put it on my requirements list now.
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Jun 11, 2022 04:05
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Zarin posted:Just become a manager! Bing bong so simple. I recently left my WFH job for one where I get my own office, and my biggest complaint is that the chair is an uncomfortable piece of poo poo. Second biggest is probably "Whatcha do this weekend? Whatcha doin this weekend?" water cooler talk questions.
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Jun 11, 2022 04:20
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Salami Surgeon posted:I recently left my WFH job for one where I get my own office, and my biggest complaint is that the chair is an uncomfortable piece of poo poo. Second biggest is probably "Whatcha do this weekend? Whatcha doin this weekend?" water cooler talk questions. Ask for a different chair? I guess I am spoiled by legislation that requires companies to buy ergonomic equipment.
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Jun 11, 2022 06:53
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SEKCobra posted:Ask for a different chair? I guess I am spoiled by legislation that requires companies to buy ergonomic equipment. In theory, you can do this in the US. In practice, most people aren't going to. I'm sure that the chair in that Goon's office is some "ergonomic" chair (as opposed, to, say, the cheapest Task Chair from Staples) but that doesn't mean it still isn't garbage and/or fits them well.
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Jun 11, 2022 07:22
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Zarin posted:In theory, you can do this in the US. In practice, most people aren't going to. I hate chairs that swivel or move. I like chairs with an upright back. I spend the majority of the workday on my chair cross legged, so I hate weird sculpting shapes on the seat and armrests that get in the way. Currently I use an old dining room chair that works fantastically for me. I once found a chair they still had from the 50s at an in person office a couple jobs back that hit all my requirements and was ideal for me. No currently manufactured "office chair" is comfortable for me, and no company hasany sort of system to get around that. But it doesn't matter, wfh means I can get what I need anyway.
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Jun 11, 2022 15:06
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SEKCobra posted:Ask for a different chair? I guess I am spoiled by legislation that requires companies to buy ergonomic equipment. Zarin posted:In theory, you can do this in the US. In practice, most people aren't going to. Yeah, companies are required to make reasonable accomodations, and you should be able to get a doctor note for whatever ergo stuff you want. Doesn't mean the company won't get the worst accommodating thing for whatever category (sit/stand attachment instead of desk, any chair other than the one you want, cheapo Microsoft 'ergonomic' keyboard)
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Jun 11, 2022 17:12
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