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It will pull hard all the way through 1st and 2nd but third when its really built up is when it happens
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Jun 10, 2022 00:55
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OK but be specific. Does it make more boost in first and second vs third or does the acceleration just fall off. What makes you think the boost controller is the issue? What are you doing for engine management? Crome, uberdata, hondata etc should let you data log. That would show gear, rpm, manifold pressure and a whole lot more. If possible post logs.
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Jun 10, 2022 02:23
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Fallows posted:My friend says a tune will fix this. This tells me that you don't have the correct tune, aren't doing it yourself, and don't have a shop lined up. This points to you driving it with a mismatched or base tune. You'll blow poo poo up if you keep doing that. You need to get a wideband and datalogging setup going immediately.
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Jun 10, 2022 03:35
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sharkytm posted:This tells me that you don't have the correct tune, aren't doing it yourself, and don't have a shop lined up. This points to you driving it with a mismatched or base tune. You'll blow poo poo up if you keep doing that. You need to get a wideband and datalogging setup going immediately. Pretty much my thoughts as well. I'd want to know what AFR and fuel pressure are doing.
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Jun 10, 2022 04:38
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Fallows posted:I have a 10lb spring in right now, and after a second or two of wot and full boost at 10lbs it just starts stuttering and drops boost then builds back up. My friend says a tune will fix this. I also have a 5lb spring I am going to put in, which was in originally and I don't think I had the boost cutting out issue with it but I want more than 5lbs. Iirc this wasn't the post I read earlier. OK, forget the boost level for now. If you floor it and it goes from lag to wheee to stutter you have a tuning issue not a wastegate issue. Step 1 quit flooring it until you have a plan to measure and personally adjust what's going on in your engine. That stutter says to me something is so off that the engine is no longer making any power and that's a bad sign. For a canned tune (or "chip") to work everything has to be identical. Same engine, turbo,injectors, fuel pressure, cam, etc. This is never the case when making an NA car turbo unless you buy a complete turbo kit and tune for a stock engine. You will need 1. The tools to persoannly adjust your ecu 2. A wide band o2 sensor 3. Dyno time You can skip all that by going to a tuner that does Hondas and telling them to figure it out. Possibly expensive or unsatisfying. So for #1: http://support.moates.net/honda-compatibility/ Start there. I've got a friend that's into the cheap Honda ecu thing and swears by the demon+Neptune setup. I'm a hondata nerd. They're very similar, ones homebrew the other is expensive. For #2: Aem wide bands are very popular. Inovates are too. The most important thing is it should measure 10:1 to 20:1 air fuel ratio and output a 0-5 volt signal. Once setup and tied into the ecu you can track your air fuel ratio vs boost in real time and after the fact. This can replace your stock o2. It's just a more sensitive version of the factory one. With 1 and 2 sorted you can street tune. This is wildy imperfect but it can work. It's a hell of a lot better than a canned tune. My preference is to build a car. Tune for start and idle. Do minimum street tuning at the lowest boost possible to confirm everything's sound, and then dyno tune. Then street fine tune for a long time. #3 dyno tuning. Number 1 and 2 are I can balance out the base setup of engine, injectors, etc. Dyno tuning is all about that igniton map. Suck squish bang blow. All the magic happens at the bang. Spark plugs are actually fired before TDC on the compression stroke. The pistons on its way up, plug fires setting everything burning, piston hits TDC and starts its power stroke, and the fire turns into an explosion. Get this just right and the explosion part hits right when the piston/rod/crank geometry can make the best use of that oomph. Get it wrong and it's wasted or tries to reverse the engine direction. On the dyno you set it on the safe (wasted power) side and make a pull. Advance the timing and make another pull. Hp goes up. Advance and pull, hp goes up. Advance and pull, hp goes up. Advance and pull, HP STAYS THE SAME. Back off to the previous setting. You have found minimum timing for maximum best torque. This is the goldilocks zone. This is done for the whole manifold pressure vs rpm range. So at 6k rpm and 10 psi you'll have an ideal. 6500 at 10 psi a different ideal. Etc for all of it. Mix the right timing with good air fuel ratio and you get a fast car. Off the dyno you drive around with a friend and laptop and tweak air fuel and economy. I love this stuff and this is a super condensed version so ask questions and I'll happily go into the rabbit hole about honda tuning, how engines work, what any of this means, what dynos are good vs suck etc.
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Jun 10, 2022 05:09
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honda whisperer posted:OK but be specific. Does it make more boost in first and second vs third or does the acceleration just fall off. What makes you think the boost controller is the issue? It makes the same boost in all gears(10 lbs) just when it makes it for more than a few seconds it feels like its dumping all the air somewhere and it just hesitates for a quarter second and doesnt want to go any more. Stutter was a bad word. The AFR when it is doing this is at 10. I do not have any engine managment yet, I want to do hondata though maybe I need to do it sooner than I think. The p28 ecu that came with the car was chipped and tuned for a smaller turbo and different wastegate set up and different fuel set up as well. I will reply to the longer post when im back later. Suburban Dad posted:Pretty much my thoughts as well. I'd want to know what AFR and fuel pressure are doing. I got boost, AFR, fuel pressure and oil gauges. Fuel pressure sits between 60-80 at all RPM and AFR sits between 15-10 at all RPM in all gears. Fallows fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jun 10, 2022 |
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Jun 10, 2022 12:17
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10 afr is the end of the chart so it is even richer than that. Fuel pressure should vary with engine vacuum. 38 psi with no vacuum line is stock pressure. It's a very broad brush but you could try reducing fuel pressure until it's 11.5:1 afr under boost. Don't drop it to 38 and do a pull, back it down slowly 2-5 psi at a time. If it's holding 10 psi your wastegate is working fine. If your ecu has a socket to easily remove and install that 28 pin rom chip it has enough to be tuned as is. I've actually got a spare ostrich I could send you. Pm me your address and I'll toss it in the mail.
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Jun 10, 2022 12:39
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Fallows posted:It makes the same boost in all gears(10 lbs) just when it makes it for more than a few seconds it feels like its dumping all the air somewhere and it just hesitates for a quarter second and doesnt want to go any more. Stutter was a bad word. The AFR when it is doing this is at 10. I do not have any engine managment yet, I want to do hondata though maybe I need to do it sooner than I think. The p28 ecu that came with the car was chipped and tuned for a smaller turbo and different wastegate set up and different fuel set up as well. Gauges are for spot checks. Things happen way too fast that you can't really capture while also driving simultaneously. You need logs and data. Sounds like what HW said, super rich and it needs tuned badly, at minimum. Might be boost leaks and other issues as well.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:31
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honda whisperer posted:10 afr is the end of the chart so it is even richer than that. Pm'ed! I have 2 ecus and one does have the socket! Its also has 2step and boost by gear, I got to fix a pin on it cuz my idiot boss kept swapping it out, will probably pay someone so I dont gently caress it up more my hands are shaky. I'll post pictures tomorrow. Yea it never goes above 15-16afr since I hardwired the fuel pump into the alternator with a relay. I do not have a way to lower fuel pressure currently, I only have a gauge indicator. My injectors are 550cc with a golden eagle fuel rail. honda whisperer posted:Iirc this wasn't the post I read earlier. No more flooring! Yea going to street tune either by professional or do it my self since your generosity and my buddy helping me was super psyched at the prospect of self tuning. I have a bunch of base turbo maps to start off and besides running stupid rich and the boost cut or whatever issue it is really healthy all things considered. I only get on it after making a change to something to see if the boost issue is fixed but now im just fixing poo poo to get ready for the tune. It's got an adjustable cam gear but it's set to 0 offset and haven't even considered changing it. I have an good supply of AEM identical widebands we get from autozone for 60 bucks. I forgot the year/model/make of the car we found has them but I will post that here too, it's such a good deal. I got the new boost controller, the reason I think mines bad is because my boost doesnt change no matter how i route the lines to it and no matter what setting i adjust it to. So this new one im gonna turn down and hopefully get my boost capped at 5lbs for the time being. Putting it in this weekend probably in between all my lights and mirrors. I am looking now for hondata deals on facebook, if i dont find one soon i will purchase new I know how important it is. And I am looking forward to the future.   Not as pretty as your stuff but I still have to wire the headlights/tail lights so will tighten all the loose wires up then. 14v to a new big radiator and fan and 14v to the fuel. With the new radiator the car barely goes above 1/4 temp.
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Jun 11, 2022 01:12
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Suburban Dad posted:Gauges are for spot checks. Things happen way too fast that you can't really capture while also driving simultaneously. You need logs and data. Sounds like what HW said, super rich and it needs tuned badly, at minimum. Might be boost leaks and other issues as well. I don't think theres any other engine issues besides maybe small boost leak, i last boost leaked checked it when i put the precision turbo on but its been 1.5 year since i did that and they beat it on it every day at the shop. Compression is good in all cylinders, no oil leaks, after a few flushes my coolant stays nice and clean. I know I need logs. And new axles, and rear disc break deletes, new fiberglass for all the windows, seatbelts/harness bar at the minimum, door panels, and a few other misc things though before I street tune and take it to the track.
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Jun 11, 2022 01:20
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Ok I've got some more questions. Rear disc delete? What's that. When you say hardwired straight to the alternator what do you mean. Using a relay and fuses puts you in the top 1% of car modders on wiring, that's good. But alternators vary output. Your battery is like the water tower of the electrical system and buffers the highs and lows for voltage. You want your fuel pressure stable. If you went to the battery you're good. Anything weird with the thermostat? No matter how much radiator you have the thermostat should get you up to operating temp. Hondas can take a while though. On the boost controller, they can only increase boost above the spring level. They can't turn it down. They're basically a controlled air leak. For example you have a 10 psi spring. Vac line straight to the wastegate and 10 psi. Install a boost controller and turn it up. It leaks so that at 20 psi manifold your wastegate sees 10 psi. It opens at "10 psi" giving you 20 irl. The ecu stuff I'm sending you will be basically hondata but open source. Its a pretend chip your laptop can update in real time. Give it a shot before you spring for hondata. I love hondata but also have a ton of experience with it. Once I get it shipped I'll send you a tracking number. Back to Ford news I've 3d printed a terminal cover.   Fits on both sides too! Second is printing now. Failed attempts.  Small guy was round 1. To small all around and the print went bad. Big guy almost fit and was to big. I flipped it 180 to print to fix some issues. The good one mixed being the right size, printed in the ideal order, and with design changes to make it more printable. The stock ender 3 does not like large air gaps it has to bridge. Flat on the bottom and skinny goes up seems to work well. The other way not so much. I see online there are foxes for this.
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Jun 11, 2022 03:57
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honda whisperer posted:Ok I've got some more questions. Every post is more interesting than the last. Fallows posted:Yea it never goes above 15-16afr since I hardwired the fuel pump into the alternator with a relay. I do not have a way to lower fuel pressure currently, I only have a gauge indicator. My injectors are 550cc with a golden eagle fuel rail. I know gently caress all about hondas but don't most NA engines with added turbos need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to get rising fuel pressure with added boost? Sounds like you need a different spring in the wastegate also so your baseline is 5-6 psi maybe. Then up it from there with tuning. Are you doing any compensation with the ECU for the injectors? Really need to get all that dialed in as a baseline before you bother tuning it. What is the AFR on a decel, foot off the gas? I would assume you'd go into fuel cutoff and it would peg the gauge lean (20+).
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Jun 11, 2022 04:29
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Suburban Dad posted:I know gently caress all about hondas but don't most NA engines with added turbos need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to get rising fuel pressure with added boost? Sounds like you need a different spring in the wastegate also so your baseline is 5-6 psi maybe. Then up it from there with tuning. Are you doing any compensation with the ECU for the injectors? Really need to get all that dialed in as a baseline before you bother tuning it. What is the AFR on a decel, foot off the gas? I would assume you'd go into fuel cutoff and it would peg the gauge lean (20+). Honda EFI of that era is reliable as hell, but fairly primitive - but can still compensate for a lot of stuff. Don't really need to tune unless you've gone with boost and/or cams usually. MAP only, no MAF. Depending on year they may or may not have a knock sensor (IIRC a P28 ECU is the 92-95 SOHC VTEC ECU, pretty sure they didn't get a knock sensor until the 96 model year in the US). You ABSOLUTELY need to tune with a turbo, the stock ECU doesn't take kindly to positive pressure in the manifold. I don't think the sensor does either, or if it does it can only handle a very low amount of boost. I seem to remember a particular GM MAP being a common swap with chipped ECUs; there's a dirt cheap MAP that can handle 3 bar (~45 PSI - I want to say it was the MAP from the 3800? I haven't played HondaLegos in a long, long time tho) Stock, it should cut fuel on decel until about ~1000 RPM. And yeah, they do need an adjustable FPR once boost is in the equation. The stock FPR will give rising pressure under load...... until boost is added. But there's a chance he's popped the diaphragm on the stock FPR; it's attached to manifold vacuum and not meant to deal with boost. It may already be feeding it straight from the fuel pump with no regulation (sounds like it is with how rich it's running). I don't think the stock one is replaceable without changing the fuel rail, but I may be wrong; if it's popped, then it'll need to be replaced even if it's not used anymore, otherwise it'll wind up spraying gas out of the vacuum port.
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Jun 11, 2022 05:02
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honda whisperer posted:Ok I've got some more questions. Rear disc conversion, my bad from the current drum breaks. Yea I used relay and fuses but to the post on the alternator, i read its the same as putting it on the battery. I can easily switch it. The thermostat hasnt given me any issues in the past but it is old and probably worth changing but it's just barely getting to operating temp since putting the new alternator on. Ok so if I want 8-10lbs boost I should put a 5lb spring on and turn up the last few lbs with the controller. I have the spring and new controller, gonna go switch it today. Ok cool, I just looked up what youre sending me some more and I see now what it does. Ok thank again, yea hondata is out of the budget for the moment realistically so is a lot of other stuff but thankfully d series stuff is cheap.
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Jun 11, 2022 13:18
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Hoo boy, that wiring needs some love. Crimped spades on exposed relays, a bunch of grounds with questionable crimp ring terminals, no heatshrink. We can help you. I might even have some parts from my turbo D series. I sent the ECU to someone on here I think, but I might have the HuLog, a GM 3-bar, an Ostrich, and maybe my old Innovate wideband O2.
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Jun 11, 2022 13:23
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Suburban Dad posted:Every post is more interesting than the last. Yea I understand now the wastegate/boost controller situtation need to change that, I have the spring and new controller. Going to look at some regulators here in a bit, any recommendations? The tune now compensates for the current injectors, i only put a new pump(same lph) and rewired it. The rail and injectors were allready in. It stays rich now even when i clutch in and let off.
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Jun 11, 2022 13:35
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Clutch out decel it should not be rich.
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Jun 11, 2022 13:39
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sharkytm posted:Hoo boy, that wiring needs some love. Crimped spades on exposed relays, a bunch of grounds with questionable crimp ring terminals, no heatshrink. Yea I should have gotten different connectors for the relays, more like this?  What do you mean about the grounds though
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Jun 11, 2022 13:42
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Fallows posted:Rear disc conversion, my bad from the current drum breaks. I'd hook it straight to the battery. It should be the same in theory but when in doubt I look at how OEM does stuff. Everyone starts pulling power straight off the + battery terminal from the factory. The thermostat prevents coolant flow until it hits 180 degrees give or take. If you can't get your coolant to temp it's the first place to look. Getting that coolant to 180 is very important for tuning. You'll have primary fuel an ignition maps that assume the coolant is 180. At that temp they'll be 1:1. Once tuned at that temp you'll let the car cool off and do another round of tuning. There's a coolant temp offset table you'll adjust. So 0 deg +20% fuel. 40 deg +10% 80 deg +5% (these numbers are nonsense, just an example) This way the car runs its best at standard temp and is helped to get there by adjusting the whole map when it's colder or hotter. sharkytm posted:Hoo boy, that wiring needs some love. Crimped spades on exposed relays, a bunch of grounds with questionable crimp ring terminals, no heatshrink. You did it was me lol. I upgraded it to hondata so I'm paying it forward by sending Fallows the ostrich that came with it.
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Jun 11, 2022 18:06
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honda whisperer posted:You did it was me lol. I upgraded it to hondata so I'm paying it forward by sending Fallows the ostrich that came with it. LOL. My memory isn't great since baby shark came along. And Fallows, we can get that thing sorted but you're gonna need to take your time and do poo poo right. Like Honda Whisperer says, "little stuff" like coolant temp is important. Any sort of electrical fuckery is going to play havoc with tuning and reliability. It sounds like a lot of people have had their hands in/on this car, and the first step is to get everything squared away without pushing 10# of boost on an untuned ECU. It'll cost money to do it right, but you'll end up with a reliable car that makes good power instead of a car that makes crappy power and blows motors. If you're running that rich, you're washing down the cylinder walls and diluting the oil, probably pretty badly. I street tuned my EJ1, and it was way faster than it should have been. I never got the funds to Dyno tune it, but if I was in the same position now, I'd have skipped the street and just paid for a good tune. I was using CROME. poo poo's come a long way in 15 years.
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Jun 11, 2022 18:26
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Are any of the K24 drop in cams worth it on a K24 that is stock other than a 50* VTC, K20 pump, and E85? I intend to build another motor on the side, but still wondering if it is worth grabbing a set before I get this thing tuned in 3 weeks. K20A.com is like a jungle, impossible to sort through at this point.
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Jun 11, 2022 18:32
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No idea, I got out before k motors got cheap enough to swap.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:09
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Fallows posted:Going to look at some regulators here in a bit, any recommendations? Looks like stock works with boost 1:1 so an oem would be ok. What you need to do is math out how your injectors will handle the max power you want to make. If they won't reach it you can turn up the fuel pressure to force them to make it requiring an adjustable fpr. Or get bigger injectors. 500cc will pop a d16 no problem. There are tons of calculators online. Leave some headroom. You want to hit your target hp at no more than 80% duty cycle. Before you order anything confirm you have an issue. Measure the pressure at idle with the vacuum line disconnected. It should be around 38 psi. With vac connected it should drop by whatever a vacuum gauge is reading at the intake manifold. So with vacuum reading -10psi fuel pressure should be 28 psi. If the new pump is over pressuring everything it will shift correctly vs vacuum but be to high. Adjustable will let you fix that. If it doesn't move with vacuum it's no good and needs replaced. AEM ones are fine, aeromotive is fancy but $$$$. I've seen a ton of cars with $30 ebay specials. I'd lean towards aem since they have a reputation to protect and sell rebuild kits so you can use it forever. For budget I'd just get stock style off rock auto provided there is an issue with yours. Make sure the vacuum line is connected and pulling vacuum too. Use a second fule pressure gauge to verify yours. Autoparts store will rent you one. This is a rambling mess so: Verify vacuum on line to regulator. If no vacuum fit that then continue. Check your pressure at idle no vacuum. Check with vacuum. Verify gauge. If regulator is failed pick replacement If fuel pressure adjustment is required pick aftermarket replacement. If regulator works but over pressure pick aftermarket replacement. If gauge reads wrong replace gauge. What pump did you install again? Walbro 255s can overwhelm the stock regulators ability to bypass. Basically it sits at the end of your fuel system like holding your thumb over the end of a hose to control the spray. More thumb more pressure. The line out the back returns the fuel to the tank. If the flow is to high for the bypass to let enough past the pressure is forced up. Adjustable ones have a screw to set a base level of restriction. honda whisperer fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 20:01
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Put the 24 hours of le mans on in thr garage today and started in on the suspension. Still on ATM so good racing is on of you want it. Motor trend on demand has the official stream. The rears dead simple so I started there. One trick on these cars is to use a much thinner grease than poly bushings come with. You couldn't go full bearing or heim joint but you could make the bushings more slick. But poly bushing grease is a sticky hell for a reason. Switching to something like red and tacky greatly increases how often it needs serviced. It does come with zerk fittings so normally you just hit it with a grease gun and wipe off the excess. After 5 years of sitting after ??? years since it was new it's time to take it apart, clean and repack everything.  I always used the red stuff. Owner must have been using marine after I quit cars. Glad he was greasing it but it smelled like rotting diff fluid. Wtf.  They're pretty blown out too. Probably gonna order replacements .  I think this is caused by the zerks not having a path for the grease to flow through. There were definitely grease pockets. These pushed the bushings out and I think caused this issue. With everything cleaned up and a sticky mess I shoved them back in and checked/marked every bolt from the rear bumper to thr transmission. Now the front suspension.  This is very different from the original ffr. They did an update package for the class that changed the front suspension heavily. New upper a arm mounting locations, new sway bar, bigger front brakes. Also they added trick flow heads, a cam, and a new ecu. Iirc the cars went from 280whp to 340whp. The upgrade was largely enjoyed by all but it did make for some not designed to be serviced changes.  Not pictured the upper a arm bolts... the rear one isn't very accessible. Also not pictured where the a arms pivot. The steel mounting part has some galling on it. But it does have a clear grease channel. It's on the sort at a later date list but I don't think will be an issue yet. Good fit, smooth motion once cleaned out. Fresh grease pushed through the upper ball joint. This was done, then worked, then done again a few times.  And then the lower a arm. My ball joint tool wasn't big enough. Harbor freight run tomorrow for pickle forks. And a 1" box end wrench. My sae taps out at 7/8. These bushings do have grease channels and how they looked and came apart have sold me on that being the issue in the back.  Last buy not least I cleaned off all the crap on the coilover and tried to get fresh grease in the joints top and bottom. Fresh zip ties too.   After f1 and Harbor freight tomorrow I'll reassemble and start on the other side. Next week brakes and alignment.
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Jun 12, 2022 00:54
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Found the ostrich. The cable that goes from it to the ecu has a couple busted pins. 9 bux should fix that though. http://www.moates.net/emuc2818-emulation-cable-28pin-18inch-p-64.html?cPath=32 TUNING EFFORT POST There are probably things I'm missing and or are out of date. This is based on some quick googling and 10 year old knowledge. But it should be a good starting point and offer some keywords to search with. Back in the day there was a weird and beautiful arms race to gently caress with the stock 92-95 honda ecu. You could mess with an 89-91 using turbo edit, but the obd1 was where it was at. Any ecu from a 92-95 civic or 94-95 integra could be modified into doing whatever you wanted to an 89-2000 honda or acura with a 4 cylinder. B/D/H/F series engine, you could have a factory stand alone and on the cheap. If you have thoughts on that fight lay them out. All I remember is hondata just worked, and everyone who didn't want to drop $700 hated them and there were accusations of idea theft or something like it. Hondata was the pro version. It went s100/s200/ and finally today we have the s300. I got into it during the s100 and s200 days. This meant still burning custom roms and installing a physical chip when the tuning was finished. The other options from free to cheap were (and it looks https://tunewithcrome.com/ I just downloaded and installed crome. It's exactly how I remember it. You can make it work for free but it's $50 for datalogging. Datalogging is required so its $50. Crome sucked. It looks like freelog could overcome the datalogging issue? http://forum.pgmfi.org/index.php THIS IS THE SOURCE FOR FREEISH HONDA TUNING Uberdata hasn't been updated in forever it looks like. It was the hotness but doesn't seem to be the case any more. There seems to be downloads for uberdata on pgmfi Oh no pgmfi.org most of your sub forums haven't had a post in years. ectune seems to be dead as well. Neptune looks like the current (its not hondata) hotness. It's $400 with all hardware to add to the ecu. One of the people I autox with has a small honda dyno shop and this is all he uses. What you can use, can find, and still works I don't know. This was always my problem with anything other than hondata. If you have unlimited free time to gently caress around with forums and trying 10 different versions of the same software till something works fine, but you cant charge people for dyno time and spend all day fighting bugs. There were 2 people in the area that specialized in cheap honda tunes. We would point people to them when they were very budget sensitive. They would also come and rent the dyno from time to time. If you can sort the ostrich and software you can become that person. Just plug your ecu into someone elses car, tune it, burn them a chip, and slap it in their ecu. Ok so the software side has gone to hell. What is this software? Why? Whats a "chipped" ecu. What is even happening here? Inside every obd1 honda ecu (and in a similar form every ecu ever) there is a 28 pin ROM chip.  This little guy holds all the secrets your ecu needs to make your engine run right. How much fuel? Fire the plugs when? What should I do if its cold? All here. The stock guy was Read Only Memeory (ROM) A "chipped" ecu has a new one of these with new values burned onto it. As far as I ever saw most of these were more fuel, higher redline, all check engine lights that could be turned off. New ROMs were also cheap so after tuning a final one would be burned (programmed) and installed. The fancy one in the early days was the EEPROM or electronically erasable programable read only memory. This was the CD-RW of the chip world. If that's to old for you, its like a weird thumb drive. You could change the data on it unlimited times but it was a process. Seriously, the hardware to do this used to need a parallel port (old printer) to work. Then the future hit (in the early 2000s), the ROM EMULATOR! This plugged into the pins the rom used to live in and pretended to be a rom. Any time the ecu asked the rom for data this mini computer had values on hand for it to read, BUT YOU COULD CHANGE THEM LIVE! This was a game changer. It used to be like this. Make a pull, shut off the car. Pull the EEPROM out of the socket and plug it into the chip burner. Update the maps based on what the dyno said. Burn new maps to the chip. Install chip in the ecu. Start the car and make another pull. Now you could make a pull, change the map, pull again. GAME CHANGING. Add in datalogging and the software would highlight the exact cells the ecu was looking at so you knew you were changing the right thing. You could even change what it was looking at in real time. At the end of the day we were messing with basically an excel spread sheet that ran an engine. These were called tables. The software decided what tables you could see and how you could interact with them. The hardware (rom/eeprom/emulator) decided what save as felt like. The tables. What am I actually trying to adjust here? So we have a weird rectangle that holds the secrets to run an engine. What are these secrets? There are 2 main ones. The fuel table and the ignition table. These 2 images are the stock NA fuel and ignition tables in hondata. RPM (column on the left) and engine load (row at the top) In these images the rpm makes sense and the load is dumb. Load is measured here in inches of mercury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch_of_mercury It makes sense as an old timey thing but its stupid in the future. Thank god you can change it.   Much better, almost. This image I have turned on boost, and swapped inches of mercury for kilopascals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(unit) Only one issue, it resets at atmospheric pressure. This is needlessly confusing. Ill explain next.  Ahh perfection. This is how you should tune your car. With the load set to absolute kpa (kilopascals) it starts a zero (outer space pure vacuum), goes to 101 (atmosphere at sea level, will be rounded to 100 for all future posts), and then above 100 for boost. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.7 psi. Also known as 1 bar. Scale this out and at 2x the air you breathe now you get 200kpa, 29.4 psi, or 2 bar. How your engine behaves will scale really well with kpa. The more you fine tune it the better your guess for the next area will get.  You can use any units for load you want, I don't care. But throttle shut = 0kpa. Full throttle NA = 100kpa. 14.7psi boost = double atmosphere = 200kpa. I'm not sure if this is a lot or not enough posting about loads for SA but anyway, why does this matter? The golden age Hondas are what's called speed density aka they use a map sensor (MAP) aka manifold absolute pressure sensor. The other option is a mass airflow sensor (MAF). A map sensor is all about pressure. That's it, it measures the pressure in the intake manifold after the throttle body. I will save debating the pros and cons if anyone pokes me about it. For this level of what is ecu tuning, they're both telling the ecu how much oxygen is getting into the cylinders. And that's it. How much fuel do I spray and when do I fire my spark plug comes down to a table that shows how fast am I spinning vs how much o2 am I sucking down. The fuel numbers are nonsense, but more = more. The ignition tables are degrees before top dead center when the spark plug fires. This post is getting out of control so here's a YouTube video that shows how you can figure out where to adjust those tables. Basically you record what the ecu is looking at while making a pull and then replay it. It will show exactly what cell its looking at for fuel and exactly what air fuel the ecu is reading from the wideband and you can adjust up or down. Hell you can give it a table of targets and it will auto adjust it for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7GJ-HZ_Sqo Ill stack on more effort tuning posting later but its late and I'm tired.
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Jun 12, 2022 04:05
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Holy poo poo, CROME is back. John Cui disappeared for a while and it was abandonware. It looks exactly the same. It worked but was kinda kludgy. Somewhere I have a laptop with a legit license, but for $50, that's awesome.
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Jun 12, 2022 04:30
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sharkytm posted:Holy poo poo, CROME is back. John Cui disappeared for a while and it was abandonware. It looks exactly the same. It worked but was kinda kludgy. Somewhere I have a laptop with a legit license, but for $50, that's awesome. Yeah I'm utterly floored that crome was the survivor. Browsing pgmfi.org feels like playing fallout.
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Jun 12, 2022 12:50
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honda whisperer posted:Yeah I'm utterly floored that crome was the survivor. Browsing pgmfi.org feels like playing fallout. I was on homemade turbo more than pgmfi. HMT was about what you'd expect for that era of the Internet. Is Xenocron still around doing tuning and sales? He was in Jersey, iirc. I wonder who took over CROME.
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Jun 12, 2022 14:28
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The links to it were all dead last night. Might have changed names.
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Jun 12, 2022 14:31
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honda whisperer posted:This is a rambling mess so: So ok tomorrow that is going to be the first thing I do. I have not ordered a FPR yet. I did put a walboro 255 in and 550 cc injectors. And I also noticed there was an adjustable clamp tightened on my fuel return line that one of the guys at the shop put on at some point so I took that off. And good idea with using a second fuel pressure gauge, I have no idea at all how accurate the one in is at this point. There is a lot in that tuning post for me to digest. I have all day today to read and research thankfully. One last thing, the zip ties on the spring/perch on your coilovers is a trick I never learned. edit: Calculator says 407cc/min for 190hp on 4 cyl turbo, so im at 73% duty cycle on these 550 injectors i believe. Fallows fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 17:50
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Idiot coworker next to me got fired. Excellent machinist, made good parts, threw a bag of parts at another coworker over some dumb poo poo and got canned. He was the only other person at work that knew how to program/run a 5 axis. Finally caught up on the honda whisperer can you run both short term and started training his replacement this week. Ahhh it's over. Gotta give my work credit they were quick to promote a replacement and were solid on the "that's assault get out". Also I'm now going to cross train multiple people down the road so it doesn't happen again. Got back out to the garage and did some stuff. My coworker with the ITR swapped EF has a set of hub stands. He let me borrow them.   It's ready to align. Kind of. Back in the day I'd do my best with toe plates and a camber caster gauge. Numbers would be written down and then the car would go to a shop with an alignment rack and really dialed in. Then at the track we'd mark a spot (not level), measure it there as a baseline, and adjust from that baseline. It wasn't perfect at all but it was cheap and it worked. 9 years in a machine shop later I look back and cringe. I took some measurements of my floor and it's a cluster gently caress. Needs some kind of leveling. Option a: do it on the lift. I can level that on the cables easy. Problem: it's got that diamond plate texture, hub stands won't work I'd need to make or buy toe plates and camber caster gauge. Also dangerous with hub stands, lift alignment would be no hub stand only. Option b: make leveling pads. Or buy them. Make is $$ and buy is $$$$. Option b problem: hub stands could roll off the leveling pads. Would have to design to prevent that. Off the shelf setups do not seem to be designed with that in mind. Option c: stack paper/tiles/something to make 4 "level" spots and go from there. Goons what do you think? Googling with toe plates and camber caster gauge they stack stuff. Hub stands seem to either trust the floor or its formula cars and they're doing setup on a granite slab. Quick and dirty one off now then a perfect high effort later would be ideal. High effort later version I'd like to be able to use at home and at the track.
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Jun 24, 2022 02:43
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I know a guy that just made 4 sturdy wooden boxes and left the tires on to align it. You could shim them however much from whatever side you need and then use trash bags or thin greased metal plates on the top to let them slide as you make changes. No idea if this is better or worse than any of your options but it's an idea. 
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Jun 24, 2022 13:56
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Those are some purdy stands. Option C seems like the easiest/safest method to me but doing it on the lift is probably faster in the end and yea seems more sketchy or for Option A is there something you can put over the diamond texture to make that part level? I assume your talking about the lift points honda whisperer posted:Verify vacuum on line to regulator. If no vacuum fit that then continue. Did this and I am overpressured by 12psi at idle so ordered an AEM. Regulator is not failed though which is uprising considering the abuse. The 20 dollar ebay specials look good tho tbh but what the heck Fallows fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 03:34
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Suburban Dad posted:I know a guy that just made 4 sturdy wooden boxes and left the tires on to align it. You could shim them however much from whatever side you need and then use trash bags or thin greased metal plates on the top to let them slide as you make changes. No idea if this is better or worse than any of your options but it's an idea. That covers elevation but not being level. Well ot could make it level but they would only work in that one spot. Fallows posted:Those are some purdy stands. The wheel stands sit on 4 roller bearings. The diamond texture would keep them from moving freely. If I had the tools to do it on the tires the lift would be an easy choice though. Sorry I haven't done more effort posting on tuning. This is a surprisingly good primer on tuning in general and excellent specific to Hondas. https://www.hondata.com/s300-help I've decided alignments are going to come up a lot. Gonna make my own leveling pads. I stopped by the recycling center Saturday and picked up L channel steel. They will take a bit though. Meanwhile, brakes! And other stuff. It's close enough for new seat belts. They're only good for 2 years so you want to buy them near the finish.  I only had to pull out the seat twice! Transmission blanket is back in too.  Rock auto dropped some Amazon grade packaging. Air packets vs brake rotors had an obvious winner.  Plan is new pads all around, new front rotors, rebuild the front calipers, new master, and bleed the whole mess. I haven't rebuilt calipers before but $5 for parts vs $75 for calipers per corner it's worth a shot when labor is less of a concern.   They came apart easy enough and cleaned up pretty well. Trying to get the pistons back in with the dust boots installed was not happening. I came up with a plan b though. Step one boots on the piston.  Step two slide the boot down so the part that goes in the caliper hangs free over the bottom. I've been on the internet to long.  Stick the boot in thr caliper.  And slide it all home.  These calipers are weird. 2 piston but floating, kind of. They don't have slides in the traditional sense. The pads actually hold everything together.   The top tabs of the pads slip into the caliper bracket and a pin holds the bottom together. I thought I took a picture but didn't. Master cylinder wasn't bad. I do love that a few rivets prevent crawling under the dash.  Ahhh access. Hopefully I can bleed them tomorrow.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:52
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Brakes are bled, it went well. Was still getting those "is this from the bleeder or in the line?" rare bubbles at the end. Will bleed it one last time as the final touch before the first event. All that remains, or is required at least, is aligning it and putting the front back on. Yesterday at work I cheated and let an extra cnc machine make 16 L shaped pieces for the levelers. Then started tacking them up on the much nicer welding table there.  Got to work this morning and the powers out. Grab the stuff and go home. Finish welding there. McMaster feet came today too.   I've got a plan to keep the hub stands safe and i think it's a good one. That's this weekend though. It'll make these pads only work with hub stands but I doubt I'll go back after messing with them a little bit. Also no scale mods needed.
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Jul 1, 2022 02:07
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Those came out nice!
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Jul 1, 2022 13:40
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Uh, why does the metal say RR and the sticker says LF? Looks really great though.
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Jul 1, 2022 23:55
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Thanks! I was wondering if someone was going to call me on that lol. I checked very carefully that I got each corner when I milled them. Then I got into a rhythm tacking them together and got 2 of the marked ones together in one frame. Caught it before I had to cut it apart thankfully.
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Jul 2, 2022 01:40
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honda whisperer posted:Yesterday at work I cheated and let an extra cnc machine make 16 L shaped pieces for the levelers. Then started tacking them up on the much nicer welding table there. Pretty honda whisperer posted:That covers elevation but not being level. Well ot could make it level but they would only work in that one spot. Ahh I got what your saying about the wheel stands. Take your time on the tuning posts, me and my friend are putting a ton of effort into learning all we can about honda tuning so we can do it our selves down the line so it's super appreciated but your projects def take precedence over little old me. I had just been dailying the civic for grocies and fixing everything(switched to 5lb wastegate spring, new boost controller, wired all the lights, redid the fuse and relays for my 14v stuff, new rear brakes and lowers). What I want to do is a rear brake conversion to discs from these stock drum breaks. Will post some pics soon.
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Jul 4, 2022 01:00
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Word. If you have any specific questions fire away. I'll be much faster with that vs big effort posts.
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Jul 4, 2022 05:55
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