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Automata 10 Pack posted:Pretty much, the Dems are using this to let any active Republican off the hook. We’ll may see Giuliani tier republicans get named, and they will continue to center this on Trump, but they won’t go after anybody they can perceivably gain cache with and they certainly won’t point out that the current GOP are coup supporters who’re working towards a second one by way of dismantling our democracy. Yeah, they might trot out a few Proud Boys and one or two of the more egregious examples of crazy poo poo from people in the crowd but doubtfully anyone connected in DC or that can afford a team of lawyers. I cant help but keep trying to picture how this would play out had it been BLM reacting to, say, an attempt on Barrack Obama's life or something similar. The difference to me is that BLM has legitimate grievances but all this poo poo we're watching now is based on the false belief that widespread election fraud swung the 2020 election and driven by a bunch of fanatical weirdos that actually buy into this poo poo. That many people turning out with that much rage and anger over something that never happened is the scariest part. BLM isn't trying to assert white cops and republicans barbecue black children at clan cookouts and drink Sangria made from their blood. They're protesting murders documented on video and want police to stop killing people. They're also not trying to say that all the Targets that were burnt down or bricks that got hurled were really MAGA Proud Boy undercover operatives - even though SOME of that poo poo actually happened.
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Jun 11, 2022 18:12
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It’s hard to compare because very few of the “crazies” actually believe the conspiracies they spout. The conspiracies are a means to an end. There are no good faith Republicans anymore.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:03
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I am not stupid enough to think any of this will quell MAGA. That genie is out. I am stupid enough to believe the GA DA and the DOJ are going to nail the gently caress out of DJT and lots of other people from his administration. I base that on the requirements of law and the evidence I have already seen. I am confident the GA GJ and the DOJ will have everything they need to not only prove the crime but also intent. Don't forget Eastmann has at least two hand-written notes from Trump in his Federal case in CA. I think odds are good there are more, and possibly better, smoking guns out there.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:06
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I don’t believe this will mean anything significant, at least not for Trump and the higher ups. If it did, that would mean that the president is actually beholden to some laws, and we can’t have that.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:12
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Dr. Faustus posted:I am not stupid enough to think any of this will quell MAGA. That genie is out. At this point in time just getting Trump convicted is enough for the Dems. Block him out from running ever again, I can see that as their endgame. MAGA is going to still be around flipping poo poo when that happens.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:23
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If you can lock Trump out of the election, you can split the Republican vote between those loyal to the party and those loyal to Trump, who would "fight like hell" to get him elected when it's literally impossible. And maybe then democrats can win a few seats with their dumb uninspiring "centrist" bullshit they refuse to move on from.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:34
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Seems like one of those things where if you panned over a couple feet there’d be a set of stairs.
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Jun 11, 2022 19:55
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mik posted:Seems like one of those things where if you panned over a couple feet there’d be a set of stairs. It's exactly that. There was no reason for anyone to climb the wall like that, they just wanted to.
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Jun 11, 2022 20:06
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Judge Schnoopy posted:If you can lock Trump out of the election, There is a lot of room in that but it seems reasonable to me that with a clearly written and factual finding that a civil court can find that sufficient to exclude people like Greene, Boebert and maybe even Cruz and Trump off the ballot in enough areas to cripple them. I’m hopeful that one of the hearings will be CPD video footage of “here’s X who has plead guilty to seditious conspiracy, with others who have been charged, being shown how to get around the capitol by congresspersons on Jan 05, an act in furtherance of the conspiracy.” Edit: Because we also know that Eastman was also talking to congresspeople about their role in the objection plan and so if show it’s the same people then you can start to draw a line between the conspiracy to siege the capitol and the conspiracy to defraud the US and make them part of the same seditious conspiracy. Murgos fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 20:14
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mik posted:Seems like one of those things where if you panned over a couple feet there’d be a set of stairs. Correct, but they were barricaded: https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1347304138099535874
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Jun 11, 2022 20:22
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Automata 10 Pack posted:It’s hard to compare because very few of the “crazies” actually believe the conspiracies they spout. The conspiracies are a means to an end. There are no good faith Republicans anymore. Depends on what you mean by "believe." I'm pretty sure a lot of them "believe" in the existence of the Vast Left-wing Conspiracy in the same way they believe in God, life after death, and fetal personhood -- as an article of faith, rather than a rational conclusion based on empirical evidence. It's revealed wisdom from on high, and doubting is a sin. It's not a matter of logic to them, it's a matter of morality. This kind of political fundamentalism isn't unique to the far right, of course, but it's currently most dominant in the Republican Party.
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Jun 11, 2022 20:39
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DSPaul posted:Depends on what you mean by "believe." I'm pretty sure a lot of them "believe" in the existence of the Vast Left-wing Conspiracy in the same way they believe in God, life after death, and fetal personhood -- as an article of faith, rather than a rational conclusion based on empirical evidence. It's revealed wisdom from on high, and doubting is a sin. It's not a matter of logic to them, it's a matter of morality. This kind of political fundamentalism isn't unique to the far right, of course, but it's currently most dominant in the Republican Party. But even then I think what you said is dubious. No one goes to church anymore, they aren’t religious. Actually talk to these people about abortion and you’ll realize they just think it’s loving sick they get to be on the team that imposes their will on 150,000,000 people. Its all about climbing or retaining their position in whatever hierarchy the dumb chimp in their brain tells them, and they want to do it through dominance. Will over reasoning. That’s it. That’s all there is. Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 11, 2022 |
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Jun 11, 2022 21:03
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Dr. Faustus posted:I am not stupid enough to think any of this will quell MAGA. That genie is out. I wish I shared your optimism. You're not wrong. I just don't see a road forward for anyone in a position of power caring enough to do what's right and doing anything about what we've all seen with our won eyes. If 1/6 had somehow led to a huge group of rich people people having their money taken from them then I think we'd see action. But as it stands now, 1/2 of our two viable political parties finds these morons fairly useful and only needs to figure out a way to kind of sort of control them. I think the fact that they can't worries them and the smarter republicans can see the Frankenstein monster for what it is but none of them are getting elected without that creature making his way to a ballot box. Hell, some of them are getting primaried from the right for not buying into it. Seven out of every ten Republicans think the election was stolen.
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Jun 11, 2022 22:52
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Automata 10 Pack posted:Its all about climbing or retaining their position in whatever hierarchy the dumb chimp in their brain tells them, and they want to do it through dominance. Will over reasoning. That’s it. That’s all there is.  They genuinely are about on the philosophical level of cavemen. Community is just a vector for proving strength and defining who to test your strength against. There's a nasty Punisher comic from about 15 years ago, give or take, where he disrupts a human trafficking ring. There's one of those trademark scenes where he lays out one of the ringleaders and talks about exactly why she's a piece of poo poo. I won't post the whole thing but there are three panels that really sum up why that philosophy is inherently broken at the firmament:  And out of context, you can see why MAGA CHUDs map to that-- they're the hyperindividual strong man standing up to the corrupt power structure! Look at her, she ran a sex slave ring. She is objectively a bad person! He's just doing what strong men should do! The Good Guy with a Gun! Except, the entire point of this is that ol' Punisher here is just showing where that philosophy ends. Every time. If the only thing you build is a culture of strength, all you've ever done is create a timer for when some nastier brute just charges in and wrecks your poo poo-- maybe for the right reasons, or maybe because he feels like it, but it's just a neverending cycle. There's no hope. There's nothing being built. It's just senseless, mindless brutality for gratification's sake. But it's what they want. Because it'll make them feel good.
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Jun 11, 2022 22:56
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https://www.reuters.com/world/us/dc-disciplinary-office-files-ethics-charges-over-rudy-giulinis-false-election-2022-06-10/ Giuliani hit with ethics charges by Washington D.C. authorities over false election claims "WASHINGTON, June 10 (Reuters) - The District of Columbia office that polices attorneys for ethical misconduct filed charges on Friday against President Donald Trump's former attorney, Rudy Giuliani, over baseless claims he made in federal court alleging the 2020 presidential election was stolen. The complaint says Giuliani sought an emergency order to prohibit the certification of the presidential election, an order to invalidate ballots cast by certain voters in seven counties, and other orders that would have permitted the state's assembly to choose its electors and declare Trump the winner in Pennsylvania. The charges say his conduct violated two professional conduct rules in Pennsylvania that bar attorneys from bringing frivolous proceedings without a basis in law or fact and prohibit conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice."
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Jun 12, 2022 00:10
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What Maga and Jan 6th proved to me more than anything is that red hats are embracing Orwellian levels of doublethink. They believe some of their conspiracies, sure, but simultaneously know it's bullshit, but love how angry it makes liberals. I'm sure some would say these people are stupid, or deluded, or just believe their own hype. But I think it's way more dangerous. I think we've cultivated a group of people for whom the very idea of belief is flexible. They know the conclusion they want - To be right, to be in power, to deny power to those who don't deserve it, and to return to a kind of sedated normalcy that never existed - and they will embrace any ideology that lets them arrive at their conclusions. This is why they can believe simultaneously in denying abortion rights to people, but also believe birth control is a sin and that living children don't merit taking care of. This is how they believe in charity when it's convenient but hate the idea of governments caring for the undeserving. This is how they believe in personal responsibility but hate it when any study shows how we impact the environment. And on and on. These people want a story that allows them to be right. They don't care if it's true. The next person to tell them their story loud enough and with enough authority will be embraced. Maybe it's Trump and maybe it's not.
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Jun 12, 2022 01:20
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BiggerBoat posted:Kind of a fluff piece but whatever I can't believe the guy running the Trump merchandise store wasn't swayed.
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Jun 12, 2022 01:48
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AsInHowe posted:I can't believe the guy running the Trump merchandise store wasn't swayed. Yeah this seems like a pretty cherry picked sample of both sidesism
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Jun 12, 2022 02:54
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Mendrian posted:What Maga and Jan 6th proved to me more than anything is that red hats are embracing Orwellian levels of doublethink. They believe some of their conspiracies, sure, but simultaneously know it's bullshit, but love how angry it makes liberals. I'm sure some would say these people are stupid, or deluded, or just believe their own hype. But I think it's way more dangerous. I think we've cultivated a group of people for whom the very idea of belief is flexible. They know the conclusion they want - To be right, to be in power, to deny power to those who don't deserve it, and to return to a kind of sedated normalcy that never existed - and they will embrace any ideology that lets them arrive at their conclusions. Conservatives are people who believe that violence is the first and best solution to most if not all problems, but still believe that violence is just that - a means to an end. Fascists are "people" who believe that violence is an ends unto itself and that power and cruelty require and permit no justification. Republicans are, and have been for at least the better part of a decade now, fascists. They do X to own the Libs. The cruelty is the point in the most literal and concrete sense possible. They do not have coherent goals that a sane person empathize with, not anymore. All they have is their hatred. "We must oppress the Jews because they are a threat to the German way of life." is a factually and morally incorrect statement, but it is something anyone can understand. If the German way of life is worth protecting, and if Jewish people threaten it, then it is clear and logical that the Jewish people must be confronted. "I enjoy hurting people." is not really something anyone who isn't also a fascist or sadist can understand or process. And it's the latter, again, that we are now at.
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Jun 12, 2022 07:15
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Conservatives are people who believe that violence is the first and best solution to most if not all problems, but still believe that violence is just that - a means to an end. A year ago I probably would have skimmed right over this post as over-the-top hyperbole. At this point, though, I'm pretty sure you're correct. My parents are boomers, in their mid-70s. They've always been "conservative" (whatever the gently caress that means). The first votes I ever cast were for Ron Paul in the 2008 GOP primary (where are my old school D&D peeps at??), and then for Obama shortly thereafter in the 2008 presidential election. After Obama's heel turn circa 2010 I've turned increasingly towards the left, and unashamedly describe myself as a Marxist these days. All that backstory to say; a year ago, I could have a political conversation with my parents. Keyword: conversation. We rarely agreed but could at least have a cordial discussion. Not anymore. They're both Tucker acolytes and it's almost impossible to have ANY type of conversation with them - everything, no matter how innocuous, comes back to something they heard from Tucker. Paint on the stop sign chipping? Must be Antifa. They're retired millionaires who own their home in the suburbs. They drive 50 miles a month in a brand-new Lexus and send me pictures of the gas pump when they fill up, hoping it will get a rise out of me. I stopped talking to them a month or so ago. Just waiting for the inevitable Q-anon turn.
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Jun 12, 2022 08:04
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That's rough. During the George Floyd protests I was able to finally ween my step-dad off of Fox News and it was amazing how much his attitude and demeanor improved . The channel had completely changed his personality. What Fox News does to people is pure strain poison.
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Jun 12, 2022 10:02
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-Blackadder- posted:That's rough. During the George Floyd protests I was able to finally ween my step-dad off of Fox News and it was amazing how much his attitude and demeanor improved . The channel had completely changed his personality. What Fox News does to people is pure strain poison. Fox is by a wide margin the worst, but really any of the 24/7 news channels (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) as well as most social media news will gently caress your brain up. I remember back in high school I ended up tuning into a fuckton of CNN during the 9/11 and early Iraq War period and I could feel it loving with my brain and how I perceived the world around me.
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Jun 12, 2022 10:36
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One of Fox’s more effective tactics is to just straight up attack stories on other channels. “CNN said 6 police died as a result of the capitol attack and that is a lie, the event was peaceful” And you will never see Proud Boy Briggs push aside the barriers; assault a police officer, knock them unconscious, take their riot shield, run to a preselected window on the capitol and use the shield to smash it open. Since it’s all US v Them this sets up that if you watch Fox for a period of time then anything not the fox narrative becomes manipulated media, deep fakes or whatever and not to be believed.
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Jun 12, 2022 13:57
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Today's hearing starts at 10am https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/13/politics/watch-january-6-hearing-online-tv-streaming/index.html The hearing is expected to detail how then-President Donald Trump “engaged in a massive effort to spread false and fraudulent information” even though “Trump and his advisers knew that he had, in fact, lost the election,” according to panel Vice Chair Liz Cheney, a Wyoming Republican, who outlined on Thursday what the committee plans to unveil over its seven June hearings. Monday’s hearing will include testimony from conservative Republican election attorney Ben Ginsberg and former Trump campaign manager Bill Stepien, according to a press release from the committee. Additional testimony is expected from BJay Pak, the former US Attorney for the North District of Georgia, and Al Schmidt, a former Philadelphia city commissioner. Chris Stirewalt, the former Fox political editor who was fired from the network in January 2021 after right-wing backlash to Fox’s call of Arizona for then-candidate Joe Biden during the 2020 presidential election, will also appear as a witness. The hearing will be aired live on CNN and a livestream will be featured on CNN.com without requiring a login.
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Jun 13, 2022 13:24
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BiggerBoat posted:Today's hearing starts at 10am So apparently Fox News WILL have it on today. quote:The X-factor on cable is Fox -- since the network pointedly ignored last week's prime time hearing. Tucker Carlson falsely accused other networks of "colluding" with Democrats to air "propaganda." Sean Hannity said it was an irrelevant "sham." But this time around, Fox is going to show the hearing: As Los Angeles Times reporter Stephen Battaglio noted, "Fox News plans to cover the hearings on its main channel when they resume on Monday."
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Jun 13, 2022 14:19
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Silly Burrito posted:So apparently Fox News WILL have it on today. Oh, so THATS how it works. Ok got it. Real news during day. Fake poo poo when the moon is out.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:23
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Murdoch owned newspapers blasted Trump over the weekend in some op eds. Will they finally turn on their monster? Aren't they still involved in several suits around election reporting? I wonder if a lawyer on their team was like, "You denying obvious facts around Jan 06 is not helping us to avoid $billions in penalties here"
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Jun 13, 2022 14:23
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Murgos posted:Murdoch owned newspapers blasted Trump over the weekend in some op eds. Will they finally turn on their monster? quote:Aren't they still involved in several suits around election reporting? I wonder if a lawyer on their team was like, "You denying obvious facts around Jan 06 is not helping us to avoid $billions in penalties here"
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Jun 13, 2022 14:27
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I could be a naïve idiot, but it feels a whole lot like over the past month or two we've been seeing cracks in the foundation of Trump's support within the party that just weren't there before. More and more chatter around DeSantis as the heir apparent, those straw poll results from out west, right-wing outlets being a bit more willing to come out against Trump ... it's little poo poo here and there, but for me it adds up to the feeling that the party's slowly coming around to jettisoning him. I wonder if what comes out of these hearings is considered the turning point — a convenient spot for the stakeholders to cut bait and start prepping the runway for DeSantis. It'd be really loving funny to see the party backstab Trump the same way he's backstabbed, like, every member of his inner circle. It'd also be really loving funny to see Trump decide to run third-party out of spite. Toaster Beef fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 14:34
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Oracle posted:Doubtful, since op eds are opinion pages and they've spewed bullshit for eons without repercussions.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:39
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Toaster Beef posted:I could be a naïve idiot, but it feels a whole lot like over the past month or two we've been seeing cracks in the foundation of Trump's support within the party that just weren't there before. More and more chatter around DeSantis as the heir apparent, those straw poll results from out west, right-wing outlets being a bit more willing to come out against Trump ... it's little poo poo here and there, but for me it adds up to the feeling that the party's slowly coming around to jettisoning him. I wonder if what comes out of these hearings is considered the turning point — a convenient spot for the stakeholders to cut bait and start prepping the runway for DeSantis. It was funny in 2016 to see him run, but it wouldn't be funny in 2024 at all.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:44
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The Bananana posted:Oh, so THATS how it works. Ok got it. Real news during day. Fake poo poo when the moon is out. It's probably also a lot to do with their highest rated show (Tucker) being on last time. I highly doubt they just had a moment of clarity or cared about the criticism they got.
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Jun 13, 2022 14:55
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I'd like to see 2 actions come from this set of hearings. 1. A recommendation to refer Trump and as much of his staff and enablers, including state and local officials and private citizens, for whom there is sufficient evidence that they helped forward the conspiracy to the DoJ for a grand jury investigation 2. A definition of sedition that fits within that held by the 14th amendment and other laws that's used to create list of Federal and State officials who are no longer eligible to hold a position under the constitution that can be used by state civil courts as evidence to remove these people from ballots
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Jun 13, 2022 14:57
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Number of Youtube channels streaming the hearing but it's been pushed back to 10:30. Bill Steppian (sp?) has declined to appear in person due to a 'family emergency' so they are restructuring or substituting in recorded testimony.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:01
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Murgos posted:Number of Youtube channels streaming the hearing but it's been pushed back to 10:30. Apparently his wife is in labor.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:03
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Oracle posted:Spoiler alert: No. My guess is its more hedging their bets in case something really damning comes out/preparing to pivot to DeSantis as the next Great White Hope. that but also its been floating around that trump is gonna start his election run in july as some 4th of july jerk off fest and that might end up hurting some GOP elections in the midterms and trump getting spooked from desantis creeping up on him and wants to make the first move.
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Jun 13, 2022 15:05
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Looks like things are starting up soon? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtM9Itv6tj8
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Jun 13, 2022 15:39
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"an apparently inebriated Rudy Giuliani"
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Jun 13, 2022 15:53
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"Followed the advice of apparently inebriated Rudy Giuliani" efb
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Jun 13, 2022 15:53
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Inebriated Rudi got a shout out. Beaten like Rudy's liver after happy hour
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