Blue Footed Booby posted:

I think treating the panic as projection by religious conservatives or some kind of orchestrated distraction paints child abuse as specifically a religious or right wing problem rather than the inevitable result of any deeply hierarchical organization putting adults in positions where they have power over children without oversight that actually gives a poo poo.

Craptacular! posted:

I'm generally pro queer capitalism. I'd rather see it than NOT see it, anyway (I'm also more neoliberal than most of D&D, so this revelation is probably not news). You don't have to change your cell phone provider to the one that rainbows up their logo in June, but it's nice just to feel included. It also sends a message to middle-management that intolerance won't be supported. This might be something only olds remember but Denny's had to pay $54m in 1994's money to settle many many claims that black customers around the country were unwelcome; one of the bigger events being some of Clinton's Secret Service detail going to one and the whites being served right away. That kind of thing could be avoided if corporate told managers and directors that the company doesn't tolerate this poo poo.

I'd rather see Disney make money selling rainbow mouse ears than go back twenty years when a representative was exasperatingly telling Bill O'Reilly that Gay Day At Magic Kingdom is some organizer's convention and not something the company can control or do anything about, or worse go back to the 70s when same-sex dance partners were outright bounced. Sometimes I think the zoomers (particularly outside of the states still hostile to LGBT people's right to exist) have been raised in the comfort of so much acceptance that they sacrifice too much to support the class war. In some people's lives, the pride flags at some big national chain outlet are the only pride flags in the whole town.

Aesop Poprock posted:

I mean Peter Thiel is basically the modern day Elizabeth Bathory except she probably didn't actually do any of that stuff whereas Thiel definitely doses himself in young men's blood so there's some definite uh, twisted supervillain vibes that I don't think gay capitalism comes off looking great off of

Aesop Poprock posted:

Ah gotcha. Like burger king's weird pride burger thing

some plague rats posted:

Yeah you got it. It's any kind of corporate nonsense, generally involving splashing rainbows around, that's designed to LGBTQ people and our allies feel like the companies are "on our side".

oh god oh gently caress posted:

I feel like this was already mentioned earlier but the classic example is Disney splashing a bunch of "everyone is welcome love is love" poo poo in june while explicitly shutting down queer poo poo in movies/tv behind the scenes and donating to politicians trying to force us out of public life. All the superficial pride poo poo smooths over the awful poo poo for queers and allies who aren't paying attention.

doingitwrong posted:

Here is Levi's definitely understanding the essence of gender.

doingitwrong posted:

Quorum posted:

This Pride month, Once-ler Industries is proud to stand with the LGBTQ+ community! To celebrate, we're offering a special rainbow Thneed. And the best part is, we're donating 1% of the profits from this fabulous Thneed to the Trevor Project!

doingitwrong posted:

Here is Levi's definitely understanding the essence of gender.

Aesop Poprock posted:

Wow can't say to buy my my non-race specific possibly genderless shirt from company

Fritz the Horse posted:

huh?

quote:

A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the group’s previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment.

The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues.

Starting treatment earlier allows transgender teens to experience physical puberty changes around the same time as other teens, said Dr. Eli Coleman, chair of the group’s standards of care and director of the University of Minnesota Medical School’s human sexuality program.

But he stressed that age is just one factor to be weighed. Emotional maturity, parents’ consent, longstanding gender discomfort and a careful psychological evaluation are among the others.

“Certainly there are adolescents that do not have the emotional or cognitive maturity to make an informed decision,” he said. “That is why we recommend a careful multidisciplinary assessment.”

The updated guidelines include recommendations for treatment in adults, but the teen guidance is bound to get more attention. It comes amid a surge in kids referred to clinics offering transgender medical treatment, along with new efforts to prevent or restrict the treatment.

Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma.

Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning.

Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about “sloppy” treatment given to kids without adequate counseling.

She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesn’t always happen.

“They tell me horror stories. They tell me, ‘Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor’” before being offered hormones, she said. “The parents leave with their hair on fire.”

Estimates on the number of transgender youth and adults worldwide vary, partly because of different definitions. The association’s new guidelines say data from mostly Western countries suggest a range of between a fraction of a percent in adults to up to 8% in kids.

Anderson said she’s heard recent estimates suggesting the rate in kids is as high as 1 in 5 — which she strongly disputes. That number likely reflects gender-questioning kids who aren’t good candidates for lifelong medical treatment or permanent physical changes, she said.

Still, Anderson said she condemns politicians who want to punish parents for allowing their kids to receive transgender treatment and those who say treatment should be banned for those under age 18.

“That’s just absolutely cruel,” she said.

Dr. Marci Bowers, the transgender health group’s president-elect, also has raised concerns about hasty treatment, but she acknowledged the frustration of people who have been “forced to jump through arbitrary hoops and barriers to treatment by gatekeepers ... and subjected to scrutiny that is not applied to another medical diagnosis.”

Gabe Poulos, 22, had breast removal surgery at age 16 and has been on sex hormones for seven years. The Asheville, North Carolina, resident struggled miserably with gender discomfort before his treatment.

Poulos said he’s glad he was able to get treatment at a young age.

“Transitioning under the roof with your parents so they can go through it with you, that’s really beneficial,” he said. “I’m so much happier now.’’

In South Carolina, where a proposed law would ban transgender treatments for kids under age 18, Eli Bundy has been waiting to get breast removal surgery since age 15. Now 18, Bundy just graduated from high school and is planning to have surgery before college.

Bundy, who identifies as nonbinary, supports easing limits on transgender medical care for kids.

“Those decisions are best made by patients and patient families and medical professionals,” they said. “It definitely makes sense for there to be fewer restrictions, because then kids and physicians can figure it out together.’’

Dr. Julia Mason, an Oregon pediatrician who has raised concerns about the increasing numbers of youngsters who are getting transgender treatment, said too many in the field are jumping the gun. She argues there isn’t strong evidence in favor of transgender medical treatment for kids.

“In medicine ... the treatment has to be proven safe and effective before we can start recommending it,” Mason said.

Experts say the most rigorous research — studies comparing treated kids with outcomes in untreated kids — would be unethical and psychologically harmful to the untreated group.

The new guidelines include starting medication called puberty blockers in the early stages of puberty, which for girls is around ages 8 to 13 and typically two years later for boys. That’s no change from the group’s previous guidance. The drugs delay puberty and give kids time to decide about additional treatment; their effects end when the medication is stopped.

The blockers can weaken bones, and starting them too young in children assigned males at birth might impair sexual function in adulthood, although long-term evidence is lacking.

The update also recommends:

—Sex hormones — estrogen or testosterone — starting at age 14. This is often lifelong treatment. Long-term risks may include infertility and weight gain, along with strokes in trans women and high blood pressure in trans men, the guidelines say.

—Breast removal for trans boys at age 15. Previous guidance suggested this could be done at least a year after hormones, around age 17, although a specific minimum ag wasn’t listed.

—Most genital surgeries starting at age 17, including womb and testicle removal, a year earlier than previous guidance.

The Endocrine Society, another group that offers guidance on transgender treatment, generally recommends starting a year or two later, although it recently moved to start updating its own guidelines. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association support allowing kids to seek transgender medical treatment, but they don’t offer age-specific guidance.

Dr. Joel Frader, a Northwestern University a pediatrician and medical ethicist who advises a gender treatment program at Chicago’s Lurie Children’s Hospital, said guidelines should rely on psychological readiness, not age.

Frader said brain science shows that kids are able to make logical decisions by around age 14, but they’re prone to risk-taking and they take into account long-term consequences of their actions only when they’re much older.

Coleen Williams, a psychologist at Boston Children’s Hospital’s Gender Multispecialty Service, said treatment decisions there are collaborative and individualized.

“Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option,” Williams said.

Timeless Appeal posted:

It is worth clarifying--because the media often does not--that there are two surgeries for "breast removal." Anyone who has developed breasts through puberty does require a mastectomy and removal of the breasts in order to get top surgery if they seek it out. However if breast development is stunted through puberty blockers, a keyhole surgery can be used that is closer to a liposuction and much less invasive.

A big flaming stink posted:

Clinton is coming out on the anti trans bandwagon because of course she is lmao

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1538154967365738496?t=2PBaCNzJhdLZp74PYCDuvg&s=19

some plague rats posted:

I mean is anyone the slightest bit surprised by this? The venn diagram of "people who idolise Hillary Clinton" and "second wave TERFs" is a circle, she's always been a hateful monster from the second she entered politics

A big flaming stink posted:

Clinton is coming out on the anti trans bandwagon because of course she is lmao

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1538154967365738496?t=2PBaCNzJhdLZp74PYCDuvg&s=19

staticman posted:

Thread's kinda quiet for a few days, why not have a taste of face eating leopard action?
https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1538217194659667968

A big flaming stink posted:

Clinton is coming out on the anti trans bandwagon because of course she is lmao

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1538154967365738496?t=2PBaCNzJhdLZp74PYCDuvg&s=19

Craptacular! posted:

The author in that Clinton quote starts off by positing their own opinion to the reader, and then verbatim quotes some aggreeable noises from Clinton. Whatever she was agreeing to is not printed verbatim. Like did the author tell Clinton that leftists are calling Rowling a fascist? (Most people I know only pull up to call Rowling stupid, but anyway...) It's like if I wrote you a huge anti-war screed and then quoted George W Bush saying something out of context about how there's too many families broken by war to make him seem like an anti-war person.

Hillary is bad, but this article snippet is just "I met Hillary Clinton as a pretext to tell you my own opinion."

some plague rats posted:

"Hilary is bad, I don't give a gently caress about her, but here's a breakdown on why this article is VERY UNFAIR to her." Cool, thanks guys. If there's one thing LGBTQ threads really benefit from, it's "well actually"ing about whether whatever notable piece of poo poo was technically being explicitly transphobic in this one interview. Good fun to litigate that, over and over. Maybe THIS time us trans people are just being too sensitive!! You never know!

DeadlyMuffin posted:

I'd ask you not to speak for "us trans people" on this one. Hillary Clinton, as secretary of state, made it possible for me to change the gender marker on my passport without surgery.

She's horrible in a lot of ways, but "Hillary Clinton has always been a transphobe" is dumb, and the article you're referring to is even dumber. There's a reason it gets readily debunked absolutely everywhere it's brought up.

some plague rats posted:

Fair enough, I will continue to say whatever I feel like about Hilary "trans rights are a legitimate concern for women" Clinton but will refrain from framing it as a community concern

DeadlyMuffin posted:

Thanks! Even better if you stick to quotation marks only around actual quotes and not made up poo poo.

some plague rats posted:

I was paraphrasing the full quote, which was "There are women who'd say [to a trans woman], ‘You know what, you've never had the kind of life experiences that I've had, so I respect who you are, but don't tell me you're the same as me. I do think there is a legitimate concern about women’s lived experience and the importance of recognizing that." Yeah really loving made that one up, didn't I.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/13/chelsea-and-hillary-clinton-disagree-on-transgender-identity/ posted:

“There are women who’d say [to a trans woman], ‘You know what, you’ve never had the kind of life experiences that I’ve had. So I respect who you are, but don’t tell me you’re the same as me.’ I hear that conversation all the time”

https://www.them.us/story/hillary-clinton-clarifies-transgender-women-comments posted:

"I do think there is a legitimate concern about women’s lived experience and the importance of recognizing that, and also the importance of recognizing the self-identification,”

DeadlyMuffin posted:

I found this one:

But I couldn’t find yours. Where’d it come from?

Edit: found this, which is kind of what you were saying, so maybe you mashed together two quotes?

A big flaming stink posted:

Clinton is coming out on the anti trans bandwagon because of course she is lmao

https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1538154967365738496?t=2PBaCNzJhdLZp74PYCDuvg&s=19