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Just Another Lurker posted:Patiently waiting for the latest load of shite to dribble from the mouth/anus (i think it's all one orifice on him) of Boris. Watch number go down while you wait. It's satisfying. Bitcoin has dropped below $23000, that's $8k in 2 weeks. Down from $68000 since December lol
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Jun 13, 2022 15:59
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Grey Hunter posted:It's hopefully Labor realising the current tide is people voting against the Tories, not for them. Finally, an absolute weapon to surpass metal kier.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:05
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SixFigureSandwich posted:It's still funny that every time the Tories bring up the NI protocol and how terrible they think it is, someone goes 'wait didn't you guys negotiate and sign this' forkboy84 posted:Watch number go down while you wait. It's satisfying. Bitcoin has dropped below $23000, that's $8k in 2 weeks. Down from $68000 since December lol https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1510988474215772162?t=geVhotTZO_m__5k-7jWBWA&s=19 Ah. Nevertheless.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:28
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Wow, even i'm impressed at the sheer speed at which Weetman has gone from being suspiciously quiet on trans stuff to jumping full body down the terf rabbit hole. There seems to be a strange overlap between the kind of 'centrist' sensibles who went for corbyn's blood and so called 'gender critical' types. Almost as if they've always been garden variety reactionaries using a token amount of progressive language so they can pretend to be the good guys. Why the actual left wingers in labour insisted on taking them seriously and tried to argue with them in good faith and apologised for not being good enough when they spouted their malicious garbage I'll never understand. I honestly think corbyn would have won if we'd all just called them out and laughed in their faces when they started waffling on about us hero worshipping Hitler or whatever else. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 16:28
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Bobby Deluxe posted:That's very much an 'ah no, that was the other guys' situation. Sort of like when a company commits horrible crimes, fires the CEO and says the matter is closed. Even though they're happy to be considered the same legal entity when it suits them. Yes but it's not even that thinnest of excuses, it's Johnson's own signature that's on the paper which is why it's so funny
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Jun 13, 2022 16:34
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Communist Thoughts posted:blindsight is like 30% of a really good scifi idea then 6 other less good scifi ideas including vampires, then the sequel is all about the bad ideas This is actually a very strong case for reading Blindsight. Because if you get some people saying "this is transcendentally amazing in ways I cannot express" and others saying "this is irredeemable trash" then at least you know it'll be an experience. This same logic lead me to reading Malazan twice after throwing book 3 at the loving wall.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:45
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ThomasPaine posted:Wow, even i'm impressed at the sheer speed at which Weetman has gone from being suspiciously quiet on trans stuff to jumping full body down the terf rabbit hole. e: The first one is apparently RIley's Law, I guess the second one would be like Icke's Law or something?
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Jun 13, 2022 16:48
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As in most similar cases it's probably both.
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Jun 13, 2022 16:53
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What compels a person to become obsessed with being critical of trans issues and discourse. The chance that trans issues will affect your life in any way if you aren't trans yourself or are close friends with a trans person are tiny. In lighter news I'm looking forward to the first immigration flight to Rwanda leaving with pilot, crew and no one else. Maybe Priti can ask for some mannequins to be placed in the passenger seats so it looks like anyone is on the plane.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:11
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ThomasPaine posted:Wow, even i'm impressed at the sheer speed at which Weetman has gone from being suspiciously quiet on trans stuff to jumping full body down the terf rabbit hole. I wonder a bit if the reason for this is the right are getting good at using centrists to fight the left on their causes by proxy. The right benefits from using a centrist as managed opposition, and benefits again from them keeping the left down. Because the centre never learns lessons you can rinse and repeat for whatever your cause de jour might be. Weetman is a known grifter who needed some other grift after brexit/corbyn went away, and a lot of tervery is being funded by christian fundies from the US. Maybe she's smart enough to see that there's money in it, or maybe someone with a terf agenda clued her in?
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Jun 13, 2022 17:16
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Flayer posted:What compels a person to become obsessed with being critical of trans issues and discourse. The chance that trans issues will affect your life in any way if you aren't trans yourself or are close friends with a trans person are tiny. Yeah, transphobia has always been a thing but it's quite strange how it has become the hot button culture war topic of the moment in 2022. Like ultimately, who cares? Just chill out and let people live their lives. It's the easiest thing in the world. All you have to do is absolutely nothing. Next time you get the urge to Log On just go watch a movie or something.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:17
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Honestly I think ThomasPaine is closest to the truth up there. People like tweetman spent their entire lives being fed right wing talking points by people pretending to be moderates their entire lives, to the point that they can no longer tell what's a sensible moderate opinion and what's a right wing talking point.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:17
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Grey Hunter posted:It's hopefully Labor realising the current tide is people voting against the Tories, not for them. Think they're more worried about the Liberals and the National Party tbqh.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:20
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Bobby Deluxe posted:ThomasPaine is closest to the truth up there. Hell truly has frozen over
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Jun 13, 2022 17:21
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ThomasPaine posted:Wow, even i'm impressed at the sheer speed at which Weetman has gone from being suspiciously quiet on trans stuff to jumping full body down the terf rabbit hole. it's not really hard to explain - there's a generation of older women who were young women in the Women for Life on Earth/Greenham Common/Women Against Pit Closures era, from a period when a majority of women voters voted Tory and also where very gendered roles as mothers and wives were strongly emphasized as intrinsic to their role in the broad left (there was also a radical feminist tradition at these events, but this was also circa the peak of anti-pornography radical feminism, so...) a generation of activists from this lot then drove a lot of writing and NGO formation that flourished in the New Labour period, where women voters moved to the Labour camp - Julie Bindel being archetypical. Big, successful activists and journalists and writers before 2015 was ever on the horizon. Things were going on very sunnily - recall the Nordic model prostitution prohibition model being apparently unstoppable in legislative momentum ~2013 - and then suddenly things started going wrong my hot take of the day is that it actually has 0% to do with the Corbynism phenomenon specifically and was more a trans-Atlantic cultural shift across the Anglosphere the moment Obergefell v. Hodges was decided
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Jun 13, 2022 17:22
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ThomasPaine posted:Like ultimately, who cares? Just chill out and let people live their lives. It's the easiest thing in the world. All you have to do is absolutely nothing. Next time you get the urge to Log On just go watch a movie or something. This is what really gets on my tits about it, yeah. It's just so intrusive. So presumptious to think they can just jump in with their Opinions that are axiomatically correct because they're Sensible People Who Know What's Best For Everyone
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Jun 13, 2022 17:28
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GCs like to appeal to people's fears, such as fears of male violence directed at women, which obviously is real, and for a lot of people produces a real visceral response, not least cos a lot of people have had to go through it, but then they frame it as "that's why people want to transition so they can attack women and if you say you don't like it you get thrown in jail these days" which is obviously false, but because you've primed people by appealing to that initial emotional response and positioned yourself as "sympathetic" to it (at least as long as it serves your GC agenda) it is surprisingly effective at convincing some people. Also because they form groups they like to subject each other to that emotional response over and over again while repeating the desired anti-trans takeaway, so if you spend time in those spaces you basically get bombarded with it all the time (for people who like to have conniptions about the existence of sissy hypno videos this is darkly hilarious btw) and this probably goes some way to explaining why GCs are so brokebrained, they're literally doing the incel blackpill thing where they constantly expose themselves to horrible emotional experiences to reinforce their political takes (this is also a behaviour you can see in a lot of places, it's just kinda how the internet works but it's particularly notable in some sections of it as being apparently the major point of the space). Repeatedly doing this also passes as "sympathy" because as we know, sympathy is when you repeatedly expose other people to things they hate while also saying how much you hate it, and thus further serves to create group bonding over the trauma and position the GCs as being on the "right" side of the argument to their audience. I think it's probably especially effective on people who are generally just... pretty unpleasant people, people who are pretty right leaning overall but who specifically may have experienced gendered violence or who are emotionally invested in appearing to oppose it, but also don't really like queer people or leftys in general. Because it allows you to espouse that specific position very loudly while also aligning yourself practically with the right in every other respect. You get to identify as left wing while manifestly not being so. And it also therefore appeals to middle class lib types who seem to desperately want something to be right about without having to actually get radical about anything. Lots of people love a moral crusade.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:29
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In a lot of cases it's literally conspiracy thinking from people who have never met a trans person, either in the way that it threatens their senses of what's simple and good in society (like with the theory of evolution, electricity transmission, relativity, quantum physics, modern art, musical theatre) or it can be pinned on a minority who lack the public presence to form a popular defence (Judeo-Bolshevism, Cultural Marxism, gay agendas). It's exactly the same lines of thinking that you got 40, 90, and 150 years ago about secret doctor's plots and so on, usually originating from people who felt their grasp on power slipping. And of course it serves to distract from the real perverts 
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Jun 13, 2022 17:29
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My personal hot take is that whenever you see a terf acting like trans people merely existing is somehow a personal affront, they're probably projecting. "How dare someone demonstrate it's possible to become your best self, It makes me look like I'm choosing to remain a massive piece of poo poo on purpose..."
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Jun 13, 2022 17:34
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ThomasPaine posted:Like ultimately, who cares? Just chill out and let people live their lives. It's the easiest thing in the world. All you have to do is absolutely nothing. Next time you get the urge to Log On just go watch a movie or something. People will argue there’s more to it and it’s worth understanding the root cause of their problems but TBH terfs and their ilk never argue about their obsession in good faith so I don’t see the point in wasting energy trying to figure out exactly what’s gone wrong with them. You’re not going to change their minds with debate.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:35
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ronya posted:it's not really hard to explain - there's a generation of older women who were young women in the Women for Life on Earth/Greenham Common/Women Against Pit Closures era, from a period when a majority of women voters voted Tory and also where very gendered roles as mothers and wives were strongly emphasized as intrinsic to their role in the broad left I am a little bit confused here - are you asserting in any way that the Greenham Common types were typically Tory voters? And if not, how are the wider demographics of women voters at the time relevant? If you are claiming Julie Bindel is 'archetypical' and 'moved to the Labour camp' are you asserting she voted Tory before, because whatever else I can say about her I don't think that's true.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:37
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OwlFancier posted:Also because they form groups they like to subject each other to that emotional response over and over again while repeating the desired anti-trans takeaway, so if you spend time in those spaces you basically get bombarded with it all the time (for people who like to have conniptions about the existence of sissy hypno videos this is darkly hilarious btw) and this probably goes some way to explaining why GCs are so brokebrained, they're literally doing the incel blackpill thing where they constantly expose themselves to horrible emotional experiences to reinforce their political takes (this is also a behaviour you can see in a lot of places, it's just kinda how the internet works but it's particularly notable in some sections of it as being apparently the major point of the space). Yeah if you're not familiar enough with how online rabbitholes and radicalisation works you likely won't see any harm in repeatedly looking at stuff that just happens to show up on your feed/recommended/posted by your reasonable friend/etc. They don't have to tell you to be transphobic, there just has to be enough wildly biased content out there that you casually see every so often for you to come to that conclusion yourself. And once you've come to a conclusion then it's much more difficult to admit to being wrong even if actual evidence comes to light. Like how newspapers keep showing isolated incidents/misleading stories of people cheating benefits so now a significant chunk of people are convinced a benefit cheat lurks around every corner stealing 120% of your salary from you personally
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Jun 13, 2022 17:39
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There was plenty of talk at the time about the phallic nature of cruise missiles, so maybe some of them thought that the root issue was that Greenham Common was a ladies' restroom.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:39
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Distance from the issues is kinda the middle class liberal curse though isn't it I mean, pick your topic; if people aren't curious about issues that don't directly float across the skin of their bubble then it just makes them useful idiots when the right come along whispering about how it's all a big threat and finding out about things is just such darn hard work, lets just badly synthesize a "in short: the answer is somewhere in the middle" answer and beep boop oops we voted with the fascists again because those other people are loud and angry and just aren't being *reasonable*.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:41
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feedmegin posted:I am a little bit confused here - are you asserting in any way that the Greenham Common types were typically Tory voters? And if not, how are the wider demographics of women voters at the time relevant? If you are claiming Julie Bindel is 'archetypical' and 'moved to the Labour camp' are you asserting she voted Tory before, because whatever else I can say about her I don't think that's true. I interpreted it to mean most women voters were Tory not that the greenham common women were. I knew a lot of women who went to greenham (I didn't due to health issues at the time) and they were all very left.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:42
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feedmegin posted:I am a little bit confused here - are you asserting in any way that the Greenham Common types were typically Tory voters? And if not, how are the wider demographics of women voters at the time relevant? If you are claiming Julie Bindel is 'archetypical' and 'moved to the Labour camp' are you asserting she voted Tory before, because whatever else I can say about her I don't think that's true. naw - rather, they were activists who located their place in the left tent as principally about feminism and female identity, at a time when a majority of women voted Tory and so this was a relatively uncontested field to assert. By the 1990s the UK "women's activism" NGO space is therefore dominated by feminists from this generation and tradition. It is at this point that women begin to vote majority Labour so the growing Labour/feminist space is likewise ruled relatively uncontested (compare USpol where women move across the aisle around Kennedy; by the time of the feminist sex wars it's a given that both sides of the war are post-Schlafly* and that both sides claim the radical left mantle, even as some flirt with Jerry Falwell * the Kennedy generation's own abrupt feminist-politics shock when the Equal Rights Amendment moved from bipartisan/unstoppable/uncontroversial, to dead in the water)
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Jun 13, 2022 17:48
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TACD posted:There’s equally no normal reason for people to get so worked up about homosexuality, or kinks, or interracial marriage, or any of the other aspects of people’s private business that certain people get obsessed over. Some people are just damaged in a particular way that makes them feel like everybody else has to be like them to be Normal, and not being Normal cannot be allowed. Yeah, honestly I'd be half willing to argue with them if I thought they were speaking in any kind of good faith. I don't even necessarily think that 'gender critical' takes need to be awful. We absolutely should engage critically with ideas about what gender actually is etc and I'm even somewhat sympathetic to the idea that in an ideal world the whole idea of trans-ness would make no sense because the whole concept of gender had become meaningless, and the term had become redundant. That seems to be where a lot of TERFs end up if you really push them on their ideas, and ok maybe there's an interesting discussion to be had there. HOWEVER, in practice they absolutely never have any interest in contributing productively to that kind of conversation. Instead, they spend their whole time aggressively reasserting traditional gender binaries and being openly hostile to people who have literally done nothing to them, while also making up ludicrous bullshit to paint them as somehow dangerous. It's pure reactionary garbage, and it's laughable that lots of them consider themselves to be fighting some grand progressive fight while armed to the teeth with insanely biased literature handed to them by insane Christian think tanks from the US.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:52
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Yeah the few that are honest in wanting a post-gender world seem to just want to immanentize the eschaton and get there by shouting a lot about the small bit that they can control (kicking off about trans issues) rather than realizing that you have to get there through synthesis with the current contradictions of gender which means a whole lot more genderfuck and nonbinary stuff in the short term and they might never get to see postgender world. Which of course is catnip for the Christian nationalists and conspiracy theorists who know a shortcut around all the tricky parts if you just watch this bitchute video.
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Jun 13, 2022 17:56
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Guavanaut posted:
I'm confused. Is keeping your ketchup in the cupboard wrong? Or are they keeping it in the wrong cupboard? (like putting it in with the dishes) Or are they keeping it in the cupboard in some type of nebulous wrong way? (On it's side.)
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Jun 13, 2022 18:01
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I would agree that gender is bad and people shouldn't be so affected by it that they feel the need to go through the tremendous effort required for transitioning, or doing any of the awful things a lot of cis things people do as part of their gender performance, but clearly people do feel that way and the terf brigade aren't doing anything to make gender less of a weight on people's lives. If you want to abolish it then I think pretty clearly the best way to get to that point is to give all autonomy to people who want to transition or be enby or anything else that puts the lie to the conventional conception of it. Gender roles doing horrible things to people's brains are not the invention of trans people and the best way out is through. If everyone's doing whatever then rigid roles will become meaningless just as I expect discrete sexuality to become meaningless if we continue apace. And hopefully the people alive then (if any there be) will be much happier about it than we are.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jun 13, 2022 |
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Jun 13, 2022 18:02
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The Question IRL posted:I'm confused. Ketchup can be stored at room temperature, technically, but most people I know would keep it in the fridge once opened. Mayonnaise also, technically, does not need to be refrigerated.
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Jun 13, 2022 18:04
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Flayer posted:What compels a person to become obsessed with being critical of trans issues and discourse. The chance that trans issues will affect your life in any way if you aren't trans yourself or are close friends with a trans person are tiny. imo it's basically NORMAN!!!!!!!
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Jun 13, 2022 18:05
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and cunts wanting brownie points from other cunts on twitter
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Jun 13, 2022 18:05
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That generation of anti-porn feminists never quite liked the civil libertarian take even back during the lad mag/page three wars in the early 2010s (Object and UK Feminista went straight on toward toward trans-exclusionary feminism subsequently)
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Jun 13, 2022 18:07
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The Question IRL posted:I'm confused. (I think what they're claiming is that you should keep it in the fridge, which is itself dubious because you shouldn't keep herb vinegar or similarly acidic dressings in the fridge (nor potatoes) but not everyone has a cool pantry that's between fridge temperature and room temperature (except in winter when for many people that's your house))
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Jun 13, 2022 18:07
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What do you think the drawer in the fridge is for if not to fill with mayonnaise? Take it out of the fridge and down to the weighouse and fill it with condiment.
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Jun 13, 2022 18:09
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Christ I sometimes forget how insane the early 2000s were Someone actually suggested this in a marketing meeting and everyone present just sagely nodded, what a wild time 
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Jun 13, 2022 18:10
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ThomasPaine posted:Christ I sometimes forget how insane the early 2000s were They did a whole line of "it's not for girls" poo poo. Which I agree with, yorkies are not for girls, or men, or anyone else. Because nestle chocolate is utterly disgusting. Yorkies are for war criminals.
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Jun 13, 2022 18:11
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I actually really like them 
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OwlFancier posted:What do you think the drawer in the fridge is for if not to fill with mayonnaise? 
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