|
zedprime posted:I think this is still accurate and is useful for planning purposes https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2419120517 This is exactly what I was looking for. Now I can at least ballpark how mamy coal mines I need. Holy gently caress I wish there was a level for road option. Trying to balance out raise lower and level terrain to get a road in some hills is awful. I may say gently caress the natural terrain and just terraform anywhere I want to develop something. This iron conplex hurts my heart to lool at.
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 03:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:This is exactly what I was looking for. Now I can at least ballpark how mamy coal mines I need. F3 or something turns on topographic view, another one turns on grid view. Right click when dragging a road to smooth the path out if the angle is too strong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:F3 or something turns on topographic view, another one turns on grid view. Right click when dragging a road to smooth the path out if the angle is too strong. I do a lot of that, but what's the best way to deal with this sort of nonsense.  I also run into a ton of issues when I level ground for a building, and it raises it enough that I can't connect a road, but now that the building blueprint is there I can't level out the ground to get a road hooked up. I'm really dealing with all the worst case hill nonsense while I work on gravel, iron, and next coal. Should I just mass level everything first, or just do miles long conveyor daisy chains to move ore to a more suitable location for processing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 04:14
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:I do a lot of that, but what's the best way to deal with this sort of nonsense. I'm not really sure what you're asking about for the screenshot. You're building something up a steep mountainside, use switchbacks to be able to reduce the grade you're running for trucks, or say gently caress it and build a wooden bridge all the way. There's the curving bridge types which may be extremely helpful depending on which way you plan to go, but bear in mind that it's all expensive. As far as buildings go, if the blueprint doesn't work, delete it, fix things up, and try again. Use the leveling tool to drop the height down a bit, or the prospective road height up a bit. As far as how to get it down, conveyors really aren't the worst option, ESPECIALLY for hillsides, since they're very happy to go at any angle (vertically, weep when placing and dealing with roads). Cable cars are, potentially, a good idea here; unsurprisingly they shine on hillsides and can carry either passengers or freight (the conveyors are probably a better option in total, but logistically may be more challenging). You can spec out the costs while paused and see whether it's worth it, but since conveyors can't carry people it might be good for passengers. Worth noting, you can potentially use paths and pedestrian stairs (or even a tunnel!!) to get people up the mountain; it doesn't matter that it's an exhausting climb as long as it's only 300m!
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 07:07
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:This is exactly what I was looking for. Now I can at least ballpark how mamy coal mines I need. Just to reinforce, as a mindset thing, you need zero coal mines--what you need is at least one working heating plant, and ideally one working brick plant and one working coal power plant. Flagging coal access is far more important than how much coal you access. Now, it's always good to be mentally tracking your eventual layout as to how the other eventual mines where the resource availability splotch is may fit in a condensing network (4-to-1 for the various aggregates, 3-to-1 but not tied to straight lines for oil), ie put a storage on the edge and then run along the edge for the first couple if possible, but if nothing else it's extremely easy to work yourself into "let's actually build 36 oil rigs to power the refinery, except whoops let's actually build 144 oil rigs because at that density they're 25% at best" mistakes, or thinking you actually want the 20 chemical plants to "optimize" one plastics plant, and in turn 20 of these complexes per woodcutter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 09:45
|
|
|
Volmarias posted:I'm not really sure what you're asking about for the screenshot. You're building something up a steep mountainside, use switchbacks to be able to reduce the grade you're running for trucks, or say gently caress it and build a wooden bridge all the way. There's the curving bridge types which may be extremely helpful depending on which way you plan to go, but bear in mind that it's all expensive. You can run bridges up steep slopes?!? Holy gently caress that's exactly what I need. In that screen shot I was at a point where it was too sleep even for switch backs, so I would have had to spend a painful 30 minutes raising and then leveling terrain to get a road down it. Also good to know elevation doesn't affect walking distances. Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jun 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 15:31
|
|
|
Terrain adjusts faster if you have more bulldozers in range parked at construction offices. Buy like ten of them and you can level quite fast. Honestly that bit could probably be leveled in 30 seconds or so I would have thought? Terrain modification is fairly trivial if you buy a few bulldozers and it is a big part of the game, you don't have to level everything but some basic priming work to create workable slopes in advance is advisible. Also rock adjusts very slowly, try to prioritize areas without rock texture on them. Bridges still have a grade limit unfortunately, but they can help with steep cliffs, or if you want a level road along the side of a steep cliff without cutting a shelf into it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 21:36
|
|
|
Is it still true that pausing to do the terrain modification means the bulldozer won't actually use any fuel, but it will if time is moving? Pretty sure that was the tip from bballjoe in his tutorial. Also happy to report I'm a convert to using a cable car for heating plant workers. My only complaint is I wish I could just cap how many people can be waiting at the stop. There are always like 60 people chilling there who want to work, and only a handful of spots at the heating plant. I don't want to get into the weeds with telling which buildings to go where. Also also, will educated people preferentially go to spots needing an education if they're available, or will they happily stand and work at the mall handing out food and clothes while my school sits teacherless?
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
I didn't think they used fuel either way but that seems like it would be a trivial difference. They will I think generally take the most educated job, which can be an issue if you have limited staffing but lots of open jobs in a workplace that requires both types of worker, as all the big brain boys will show up and get nothing done because nobody is working in the necessary support roles.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 00:50
|
|
|
That makes sense. He was doing the start with $1M hard start, which is not a level of difficulty I have interest in, but the callout stuck with me. My second "real" attempt at cosmonaut is progressing well, but I forget to uncheck whatever option auto-populates new residential structures *every* time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 14:08
|
|
|
Blowjob Overtime posted:That makes sense. He was doing the start with $1M hard start, which is not a level of difficulty I have interest in, but the callout stuck with me. I think cosmonaut-ish the the way to play this game. Although I do auto buy any short chunks of road, stuff I accidentally delete with careless use of the delete tool, and and power lines when I have to move them for the thousandth time. They block so many things Is there a way to make a decent power grid, or is it endless medium splitters all over the place? Is there a setting to turn off auto buy for everything? Doing it in all new buildings is tedious as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
Bottom right when building, lets you set how a thing is built, either with roubles, dollars, or via labour. I don't think there is currently a way to disable buying resources by default for all buildings. Power grids should be hierarchical. Use high voltage lines as the trunk, branch off transformers where needed. It should be treated like a pipe system though, it doesn't like "backflow" basically, so try not to connect multiple power producers to each other, multiple sources should be shared at the substation level but not above, so put two substations from different sources covering the same area if you want to use multiple sources. Generally though most power generators will produce a lot of power and have HV connections so you should be able to use one to power a wide area, especailly a NPP which can easily power the whole country. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 14:42
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:I think cosmonaut-ish the the way to play this game. Although I do auto buy any short chunks of road, stuff I accidentally delete with careless use of the delete tool, and and power lines when I have to move them for the thousandth time. They block so many things  My rule with roads is I'll do the main chunks with labor. Once a building connection has either gravel or asphalt on either side of it, it gets purchased to match. Electrical stuff I do labor building new, but when adding a new split upstream I'll just re-buy any existing connections I have to delete.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 14:52
|
|
|
It's relatively easy to avoid instant building roads if you follow one golden rule: any segment that is not detourable is built straight away as asphalt. This way you never close down a facility to upgrade the driveway. Or create any tight weird alleys future proofed. There's corollaries too. Short stretches, especially driveways, have no reason to go above gravel cause it's not like you enter the facility at 50km/hr. So just make it one and done gravel and done forever. My instant build week spot is definitely power lines. 100% because it's boring to watch.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I didn't think they used fuel either way but that seems like it would be a trivial difference. They do, or did at least. I would build a CO and buy a couple of vehicles, and use it to modify terrain. The vehicles will go for a while, but then stop being available for a bit as they drive off to gas up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 15:59
|
|
|
zedprime posted:There's corollaries too. Short stretches, especially driveways, have no reason to go above gravel cause it's not like you enter the facility at 50km/hr. So just make it one and done gravel and done forever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 18:32
|
|
|
Wolfy posted:yeah but...aesthetics
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
Also many places that were originally asphalt when they were laid, but that was forty years ago and the repeated traffic of HGVs, dust, and sun bleaching has turned it back into gravel. Yes I do live in post industrial hell, why do you ask.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 19:07
|
|
|
I've finally managed to be stable long enough to actually get a building project done, and now have all my building materials other then bitumen and steel are produced locally. It is an ugly abomination, but it's my ugly abomination!  Now it time to attempt a steel facility....
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 22:50
|
|
|
Anyone know a good map for making a big port and exporting lots of stuff by water? But not an actual island.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 03:33
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:Anyone know a good map for making a big port and exporting lots of stuff by water? But not an actual island. As always, I highly recommend The Passages. There’s a maps collection on the workshop called “Mini Nations” or something of that sort that has a lot of maps that kind of fit this bill. Once I’m on my home computer I can dig up the link if you don’t find it first.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:Kaugsaare (populated) is an island but does have a small “customs area” border checkpoint if that’s your hangup about an island. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2349706377 The Passage? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1939507219 Little nation map collection?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 19:38
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:I've finally managed to be stable long enough to actually get a building project done, and now have all my building materials other then bitumen and steel are produced locally. W&R Soviet Republic: It's ugly, and an abomination, but it's MY ugly abomination!
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2022 23:17
|
|
|
VostokProgram posted:https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2349706377 The Passage? Yes and yes, thank you!
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 08:29
|
|
|
Is there any view or map mode that will show the flow of power through power lines? I just had to spend 10 solid minutes zoomed in as much as possible slowing following my power lines to see where a break way. Staring at my screen following the wires on the power line to see where there is a gap is not riviting game play E: dammit, I think it's time to restart. I can't seem to get people to any jobs, so nothing is running above 1/3rd full. Any tips on how to design effective bus depots and routes? Well this probably isn't a good sign...  I think building the industries from scratch was the problem, I'm just trying to move too many people by bus. Think this time I will listen to the thread and start by building steel first that just imports the materials, so I can get rail running, then I can train in the workers to work the mines and smelters. If I want workers to transfer buses, do I need a second stop, or will they wait where they get off? My last game I had a bus run from stop A to B, then I forced a bunch of workers to walk to stop C to take another bus to stop D, where they occasionally made it to. Demon_Corsair fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jun 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2022 15:21
|
|
|
I strongly advise not using transfers if at all possible, the more layers of complexity you add to your transport the more likely it is to break because someone needed fuel/there was a snowstorm/an excavator went for a drive. If you are going to use them I would limit it to shovelling people into a central rail station via bus or something, but otherwise I would really consider trying to find some other way to do it. Transfer makes workers get off at their stop (which must be a station of some description) and get on any other forms of transport that will accept them at that station as if they had walked there from home, however it does not reset their timer for how long they are willing to spend travelling or waiting for a pickup. There is an overlay that will show you power but I can't recall exactly how to get to it, I think it's somewhere in the map controls or on the left side bar. It shows how much power is available and generally green means connected to power. There's a bunch of visualization tools actually but they're all in a particular menu I rarely use. From what I can see there, everyone seems to want the petrol station, so I would probably suggest not putting the petrol station on a T junction connected to the main road. If you're going to put one in you probably want a Y junction so they can turn on/off easier, or a roundabout. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2022 01:00
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I strongly advise not using transfers if at all possible, the more layers of complexity you add to your transport the more likely it is to break because someone needed fuel/there was a snowstorm/an excavator went for a drive. So basically you need to rush trains asap so you can expand for gravel/coal/iron? All that stuff is outside of easy bussing range of my starter city. The current plan is to build the steel mill first and import iron and coal, but I still want to build the mill close to where I will be getting the coal from. Or should I just say gently caress that, drop the mill in my starter industrial area and figure out how to train in coal and iron later?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2022 16:03
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:Or should I just say gently caress that, drop the mill in my starter industrial area and figure out how to train in coal and iron later? This is usually how I handle things. Just give it enough space and build close to a rail line.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2022 16:14
|
|
|
Steel plants are expensive undertakings and you should only really build them once you're prepared to handle the logistics of it. In the stock map, there's an area that has very large coal deposits relatively near an iron deposit that's on a hillside. Coal is important to several different industries, while iron is only useful to steel. I generally plan out an entire industrial sector with buffer storages etc with most of it marked to not be built yet, then have the iron come down the hill to a processing plant via conveyor, then from that processing plant to a large storage via conveyor that sits outside the steel mill. Since things like bricks, power, prefab panels, etc all use coal, I would recommend building the steel mill near the coal source and trucking the iron in for the short term (consider adding the large storage and a vehicle unload paint connected to it) if you really do need it up and running, otherwise I would recommend worrying about it later since importing it is only a problem financially.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Full entitlement steel plants need connected to coal and iron mines just up the hill, and then trains coming in from other coal and iron mines or from border import. They eat dirt at unfathomable speeds. Luckily you don't need full entitlement steel plants and if you can connect it by belt to even one of either a coal processor or ore processor you can truck in the rest and make a decent dent into your steel import which will let you build more mines or more trains to take the steel plant incrementally up capacity.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2022 18:05
|
|
|
I abandoned this game last year out of frustration, but kept it installed and said I'd go back to it. I fell down a hole for 5 hours today and apparently definitely went back to it. I have no idea what I'm doing and my economy is completely falling apart, but I'm following the eternal wisdom to  . I don't even know what I'm doing wrong to ask for advice on how to do it better, so I'll just offer a few snapshots. The center of industry so far, Eulergrad (a friend gave the name for this one, the rest just caught random names I don't even remember). Home to 2500-odd people, host to a university and various amenities, and also pseudo-host to the start of my construction industry - gravel, asphalt, and concrete production. (The latter two are permanently full while I can't make my gravel production catch up to consumption whatsoever.) Starting to continue road expansion along the coast.  The theoretical beating heart of this fledgling republic's economy, pumpjacks... actually produce far less oil than I expected they would, and it's a serious struggle to make any money whatsoever here, especially to match all the rubles outflow. Nonetheless, producing bitumen and fuel, using the fuel to supplement international purchases and the bitumen for asphalt, and at least in theory I'm exporting fuel for money (in practice I couldn't fill even the smallest tanker in under multiple real-life hours). Oil power provides a large share of the baseload for the republic.  I figured I'd figure out the farming mechanics and work on a food supply, since that's kind of essential for things like "living". That didn't really work out, but the food factory operates nonetheless.  But I needed coal to kickstart other industries, and so my second "town" began. Dysfunctional corner of hell that also hosts one end of my only rail line so far. Just barely started piecing together the construction office and storages here. I'm down 80% of my starting rubles and no longer breaking even like I used to be. I have asphalt and concrete very reliably produced locally, gravel unreliably produced locally, a semi-stable food and fuel supply, and... pretty much everything else has to be imported still. Power hasn't been stable enough to keep exports going, fuel exports are going extremely slowly and unsuccessfully, and in general the economy is kind of just falling apart. Sitting at >90% happiness at least, I guess! That said: I can only really play this game later in the day when my ADHD medication has already mostly worn off, and holy hell this is a time-hole. I don't think I can play this game long term just from the perspective of self-care and keeping this poo poo under control. I'll see if I can manage it another way, but man...
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 05:50
|
|
|
It looks good! There’s always going to be fights with learning in this game - I still find out ostensibly new information when I approach things slightly differently than I had in my hundreds of previous hours. Don’t be scared by the curve, you’re absolutely through the worst of it if you have functioning industries. Re: time-vampirism… eh, it is just sort of that type of game. When I start a brand new save I’ve spent gaming-hour heavy weekends entirely paused before I ever let the game run. (Now granted, I spend way too much time on minor aesthetic decisions that inflate that pause time a lot.) I don’t have a good solution for keeping yourself from dumping tons of hours in, only that you’re probably in a weird spot where it’s much easier to want to dump a dozen hours on a Saturday. When a management game just starts to click with me and I can feel that treadmill toward mastery of it, it’s hard to put down. Once you get to a more comfortable level it might be more manageable? For me these days in W&R I have a long save that isn’t actually that mature in terms of ingame time passed, but I like to open it up, throw on some trash TV or a podcast, and design a city block or small industrial complex for an hour or two and then dump it. Eventually stuff gets done and built but it’s just kind of a slow burn. It definitely isn’t really “playing” in many ways until I get to a spot to unpause and let the vehicles go, but it’s got a fun zen to it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 06:13
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:So basically you need to rush trains asap so you can expand for gravel/coal/iron? Generally you would found your city within reach of at least one useful resource. If you want to connect patches from all over the map then yes you do need trains for that. You can cover a three kilometer radius from a residential area with cable cars quite easily though and those are good for staffing industrial plants and mines. You can also build single track railways quite easily which will allow you basic reliable access for heavy goods transport.
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 12:18
|
|
|
Anime Store Adventure posted:It looks good! There’s always going to be fights with learning in this game - I still find out ostensibly new information when I approach things slightly differently than I had in my hundreds of previous hours. Don’t be scared by the curve, you’re absolutely through the worst of it if you have functioning industries. At this point, with the industries mentioned, is it worth going with partial local construction and just using rubles for the materials I don't have yet (steel, electronics, etc)? Not sure how much that will actually stretch the remainder of my money, but it sure doesn't seem like there's much way to recover spent rubles easily...
|
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 14:23
|
|
|
Yeah by a long shot, import whatever you need and produce what you can, and export any excess production back to the border. Generally it is easier to scale up production in an existing industry than to build a whole new one as well, so depending on the industry this can be a better way to do things, just exporting more and buying in stuff you need with it. That's why you generally want to set up near some sort of industry so you can get a money maker online as soon as possible, or failing that you can go tourism but that's hard to do as your main source of income, worth doing though if you're already connecting to the border and building the amenities for your own people. Resources aren't actually the biggest cost in construction, most of the time, you generally spend the most money on labour hours, which you can supply yourself if you don't mind the time it takes. There is an opportunity cost as to whether having a thing built now will let you make money back faster, but if you're going strict cosmonaut that isn't as much of a consideration. Ether way you absolutely should just buy in anything you can't make. You can set a distro office to stock a storage depot with open storage, gravel, and a warehouse, for your construction offices to draw from. Then as you bring domestic production online you can swap out the sources for those from the border to your own industry. One thing you can do, is set your fuel tanker to import oil on the return trip. You will make a net profit on imported oil, by refining it into fuel and bitumen, although obviously less than domestically produced oil, and you are already making the trip to the border with a compatible vehicle. I do this while supplementing the oil refinery with the occasional trainload of domestic oil production, but I just buy a big pile of oil in every time I send a shipment out and refine that too, because the refinery can handle a huge amount of throughput if you supply it with enough workers, compared to how much oil you actually get out of an oil field. Another good cash crop is bauxite, because you can mine it without using workers, the mines are just excavator stations, so you can dig it out of the ground basically anywhere you can send fuel to, and then export it via any bulk transport. If you have a patch near a river you can use boats or you can build a train line. You can also part-refine it if you want to, you don't have to go the full length to making an aluminium plant, and this will increase its value per-tonne by shaving off waste material. Raw minerals are generally only worth exporting in huge quantities and with efficient transport systems, if you try to do it with trucks you will create a traffic jam and burn a lot of fuel to little effect. Nuclear fuel is also a good one because you can fit the whole refinement process right next to the mine in a little compound, and it produces very expensive but very small little fuel packets, which you can sell for a fortune via truck or you can use it to fuel your own nuclear plants for infinite electricity. It's good specifically because you don't need any heavy infrastructure to operate it, the fuel refinement process is the entire thing and it just uses uranium and a bit of chemicals, and you can mine the uranium and ship the chemicals in with trucks. Only challenge is getting the workers to the mine and having enough university graduates to work in the refinement process, but if you can do that you don't need any trains or anything to run to the site (unless that's your worker supply system, I like to use cable cars though) OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jun 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 18, 2022 19:48
|
|
|
What do the end line bus buildings do ? I think they are new.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 17:08
|
|
|
euphronius posted:What do the end line bus buildings do ? I think they are new. They function as a gas station and line spacer, basically.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 17:09
|
|
|
Can you explain the line spacing bit. do you add them as a stop on a line ?
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Can you explain the line spacing bit. do you add them as a stop on a line ? yes, then your buses will hang out there when the timing gets messed up instead of slowing down and causing traffic jams.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 18:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:07 |
|
|
SkyeAuroline posted:At this point, with the industries mentioned, is it worth going with partial local construction and just using rubles for the materials I don't have yet (steel, electronics, etc)? Not sure how much that will actually stretch the remainder of my money, but it sure doesn't seem like there's much way to recover spent rubles easily... Yes, 100%. Bear in mind that the materials used to build will be at the import prices, but will also add a transportation fee based on distance from the border. You also have to pay for foreign contractors. Given that the fee is the rate per distance per ton regardless of material, and is also per distance per person, that means that having your own gravel, workers, etc infrastructure will massively reduce your costs over direct import building. Even just the workers make a difference, but you should at some point create an open storage yard to fill with materials from importing even if you cannot produce them yourself, just so that you don't have to pay the transport costs (although you sort of still do via opportunity cost + fuel etc etc etc) Cosmonaut effectively requires that you do this, for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2022 19:15
|
|