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Just turn off sending gold by mail. I can't think of a single legitimate reason to allow that. And trading gold in-person.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:52
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You ban even a single innocent player and the bad press will do a lot worse than the bots would to your reputation.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Ban any account that is above X ilevel while below Y value for island stronghold, time played, roster level, maybe some more easily flagged stuff I am forgetting. I mean, when you see someone at ilevel 1460+ and their roster level is below 100 and their stronghold is level 20 it's pretty obvious they hit up the RMT. I am not going to say RMT is not an issue, because it obviously is. But you do realize that people can buy gold in game in a legitimate manner right? A lot of the whales you see are just people who threw thousands of $ at the in game shop. I said come in! posted:Just turn off sending gold by mail. I can't think of a single legitimate reason to allow that. And trading gold in-person. Most of the RMT is happening in the auction house anyways, just look at T1 jewelry sales and sort by price. But I have used the in game mail and personal trading to give friends gold multiple times, either as a loan to buy a piece of jewelry or just to help them get started in the game. Cinara fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 20:53
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Hellioning posted:You ban even a single innocent player and the bad press will do a lot worse than the bots would to your reputation. Which has already happened, AGS has reverse coursed on thousands of bans already multiple times. Just turn off the ability to send players gold, this seems like it should be an ultra obvious solution.
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Jun 14, 2022 20:53
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Cinara posted:I am not going to say RMT is not an issue, because it obviously is. But you do realize that people can buy gold in game in a legitimate manner right? A lot of the whales you see are just people who threw thousands of $ at the in game shop. Whale A spends 2k ingame and gets to whatever ilevel while having low stronghold / played / roster level. No ban. Whale B spends 2k offsite and barely any ingame. This gets them to a much higher ilevel while also having low stronghold / played / roster level. Ban. Surely they can track how much money each account has spent. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 21:06
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I said come in! posted:Just turn off the ability to send players gold, this seems like it should be an ultra obvious solution. And you seem to keep missing that most of the gold transactions arent just sent via mail or trade. They do them through the auction house.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:13
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Ougher posted:And you seem to keep missing that most of the gold transactions arent just sent via mail or trade. They do them through the auction house. It's not about stopping it out right, but making it majorly inconvenient. This is still something that should be done.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:17
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Surely they can track how much money each account has spent. Ougher posted:And you seem to keep missing that most of the gold transactions arent just sent via mail or trade. They do them through the auction house. Khorne fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jun 14, 2022 |
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Jun 14, 2022 21:23
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I said come in! posted:It's not about stopping it out right, but making it majorly inconvenient. This is still something that should be done. Turning off gold trades/mail for regular players would do zero to stop 3rd party rmt, so its a non-starter. There is no reason to put the hassle on any legit players for something that isnt going to help at all.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:28
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Ougher posted:Turning off gold trades/mail for regular players would do zero to stop 3rd party rmt, so its a non-starter. There is no reason to put the hassle on any legit players for something that isnt going to help at all. I rarely see gold sellers offering the auction house as an option to buy their gold, so I don't know where you're getting this from. All the trust worthy ones only deal through mail because the chances of something going wrong is far less likely.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:33
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Jun 14, 2022 21:35
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I said come in! posted:I rarely see gold sellers offering the auction house as an option to buy their gold, so I don't know where you're getting this from. Now you just must be joking. There are literal hundreds of listings of t1 jewelery and low level gems priced for hundreds of thousands of gold each, IN THE RECENT SALES, meaning they are completed auctions. And as mentioned above they can also do it via the item bids in abyss dungeons. 
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Jun 14, 2022 21:37
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Ougher posted:Now you just must be joking. There are literal hundreds of listings of t1 jewelery and low level gems priced for hundreds of thousands of gold each, IN THE RECENT SALES, meaning they are completed auctions. And as mentioned above they can also do it via the item bids in abyss dungeons. So then we just accept that this is going to be a problem that won't go away?
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Jun 14, 2022 21:39
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No but the answer is not to prevent methods of trading gold, but instead to work on increasing their methods of detecting fraudulent trading.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:41
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Well Lost Ark is in the wrong hands for that. AGS doesn't have the ability to do that.
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Jun 14, 2022 21:42
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Amazon is some combination of incompetent/unable to unilaterally fix the problem, and Smilegate I increasingly believe has no clue how to fight bots because the only version of the game they take responsibility for basically requires a social security number to register an account. I still think they should totally prohibit any steam account that hasn't met some low threshold of money spend from downloading the game, or at the very least bar them from interacting with the economy at all.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:05
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Scoss posted:Amazon is some combination of incompetent/unable to unilaterally fix the problem, and Smilegate I increasingly believe has no clue how to fight bots because the only version of the game they take responsibility for basically requires a social security number to register an account. Ironically enough they did do this, but it didn't help. The threshold seems to be too low.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:10
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Without digging up the blog post they made, I'm pretty sure all they did was prevent those unprivileged accounts from stuff like initiating trades or sending mail attachments, but there are still a ton of obvious ways to move the gold off those characters.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:13
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Scoss posted:I still think they should totally prohibit any steam account that hasn't met some low threshold of money spend from downloading the game, or at the very least bar them from interacting with the economy at all. They already do this, it's the Steam Trusted Account system. It does nothing because they can buy already trusted accounts in bulk.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:13
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Scoss posted:Amazon is some combination of incompetent/unable to unilaterally fix the problem, and Smilegate I increasingly believe has no clue how to fight bots because the only version of the game they take responsibility for basically requires a social security number to register an account. Cinara posted:They already do this, it's the Steam Trusted Account system. It does nothing because they can buy already trusted accounts in bulk.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:21
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I guess I do have to look up the blog. This is what they banned:Lost Ark posted:
You can still have a "clean" account run around and withdraw every penny from your untrusted bot accounts, and the bots have unfettered access to the AH. We are not even at the point of speculating about mass-buying trusted accounts when this first hurdle is so trivially defeated.
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Jun 14, 2022 22:32
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I said come in! posted:It's not about stopping it out right, but making it majorly inconvenient. This is still something that should be done. My guild is doing an internal pvp tourney with gold buy in and pay out. Just because you can't think of a legit reason doesn't mean they aren't there.
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Jun 14, 2022 23:42
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Somewhat topical news post. https://forums.playlostark.com/t/incoming-bot-ban-wave/410581
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Jun 15, 2022 00:50
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Yeah this seems like very strong evidence in the column of "they COULD do something about bots, but choose not to until it becomes so bad that the community revolts over it".
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Jun 15, 2022 02:11
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King of Bleh posted:Yeah this seems like very strong evidence in the column of "they COULD do something about bots, but choose not to until it becomes so bad that the community revolts over it". i'll bite how exactly?
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Jun 15, 2022 02:30
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King of Bleh posted:Yeah this seems like very strong evidence in the column of "they COULD do something about bots, but choose not to until it becomes so bad that the community revolts over it". 
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Jun 15, 2022 02:42
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It's been an acknowledged, chronic problem since launch, but no significant announcements or change to the status quo for a month until specifically this week when queue sizes start blowing up and sentiment starts to noticeably sour? It doesn't seem at all far fetched to me that someone decided this was the line that had to be crossed before cracking down with more bans. A reactive wave of bans was what I predicted earlier in the week when queue sizes started to consistently exceed 15k on West, so this just bears out that hypothesis in my eyes.
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Jun 15, 2022 06:50
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Ah yes, the bots are only now a problem because the queue problem on uswest. We as a business that exists to make money, do not care about all the money bots arent giving us, and that they are undercutting our own in game gold by a factor of like 4, losing us even more money. There is definitely no reason we would ever care about this because we are so very generous and decided to just let the other people make some money off the game we are publishing here in the west. 
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Jun 15, 2022 07:04
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They have literally done multiple bot ban waves along with attempting to prevent their VPN usage. Also you may not have noticed but bots are no longer speedhacking and teleporting through walls like they did for the first month of the game. Fighting bots is an endless battle, and sure they could be doing a lot more but it's not like this is the first thing they are doing.
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Jun 15, 2022 07:08
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they should just hit the "ban all the bots" button, stupid evil amazon game studios who is not actually involved in the ongoing development of the game
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Jun 15, 2022 14:33
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cams posted:they should just hit the "ban all the bots" button, stupid evil amazon game studios who is not actually involved in the ongoing development of the game AGS is responsible for the western servers and how they behave/function, translations, and balance of the western version along with the direction of SmileGate. So this falls under what they get the blame for. SmileGate lends a hand to the security of the game too, but this is largely on AGS to fix.
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Jun 15, 2022 17:12
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I said come in! posted:AGS is responsible for the western servers and how they behave/function, translations, and balance of the western version along with the direction of SmileGate. So this falls under what they get the blame for. SmileGate lends a hand to the security of the game too, but this is largely on AGS to fix. The idea they can fix bots entirely server-side, without client/engine support to provide the data required to make those decisions, is wrong.
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Jun 15, 2022 17:25
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Dynamite Dog posted:The idea they can fix bots entirely server-side, without client/engine support to provide the data required to make those decisions, is wrong. Never said they did. AGS doesn't operate in a bubble.
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Jun 15, 2022 17:38
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I said come in! posted:Never said they did. AGS doesn't operate in a bubble. anywho, i'd have probably quit this game if i took it real seriously. i bounce around games a lot, i like having a game i can log in and play for either a few minutes or all day if i feel like it. i've done argos but nothing higher and i'm in no rush, it'll always be there. i feel like this game is an absolutely miserable experience if you are trying real hard to "keep up" with anything, both having to grind/spend an insane amount and the toxic attitude around high level content.
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Jun 15, 2022 20:27
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Lol the punika materials chests is such a debacle. One thing on top of another constantly.
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Jun 16, 2022 22:42
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Zotix posted:Lol the punika materials chests is such a debacle. One thing on top of another constantly.
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Jun 16, 2022 22:44
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This is the last AGS game for me for a long time. They just aren't up to the task.
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Jun 16, 2022 22:51
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Mistakes like that are not AGS though? AGS isn't handling any of the actual development of the game, Smilegate is. The issue is that AGS and Smilegate are completely different companies, one of which is completely Korean and thus there are massive communication issues. It takes them days to get answers back on simple questions like what will be in the upcoming patch. I am not sure the best way to solve the problem but I am sure there is something AGS could be doing to streamline things.
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Jun 16, 2022 23:10
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Cinara posted:Mistakes like that are not AGS though? AGS isn't handling any of the actual development of the game, Smilegate is. The issue is that AGS and Smilegate are completely different companies, one of which is completely Korean and thus there are massive communication issues. It takes them days to get answers back on simple questions like what will be in the upcoming patch. Generally, the publisher handles deployment of artifacts provided by the development studio. In this specific case it very likely was AGS unless they have people from SG directly accessing NA/EU to perform updates. Which could be the case given SG seems to decide everything about what AGS gets with only some input from AGS. e: I don't really care who did it. I wouldn't buy the mat pack either way, but removing it was very clearly going to cause a shitstorm. Especially after hours of people being mostly positive about it and tens of thousands of people buying it. Khorne fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 16, 2022 |
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Jun 16, 2022 23:35
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AGS Smilegate. I don't care. It's a gently caress up after gently caress up after gently caress up. I play this game far more than I should and I'm starting to lose faith.
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Jun 16, 2022 23:36
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