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Phy posted:Who was it that described "soul" as applied to vehicles as meaning only that it doesn't do precisely what you ask of it at all times? I deliberately avoided the s-word because to me it's not about that, it's just about want. I don't want to ride another F900XR. If someone gave me one with the expectation that I keep it, I wouldn't be disappointed, but I'd probably sell it after a while anyway. It wouldn't get ridden much if I had something else I liked better. But ask me to point to something specific I don't like? I can't. Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jun 16, 2022 |
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Jun 16, 2022 18:13
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I found a cute boy to plop onto the back of my bike! If one of my suits and helmets fits him, we're going for a ride tomorrow
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Jun 16, 2022 18:23
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LimaBiker posted:I found a cute boy to plop onto the back of my bike! Result!
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Jun 16, 2022 18:32
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Finger Prince posted:I deliberately avoided the s-word because to me it's not about that, it's just about want. I don't want to ride another F900XR. If someone gave me one with the expectation that I keep it, I wouldn't be disappointed, but I'd probably sell it after a while anyway. It wouldn't get ridden much if I had something else I liked better. But ask me to point to something specific I don't like? I can't. To continue the Clarkson references, there was one particular Ferrari which he said was one of their best cars. Ferrari then convened a focus group of its owners, asked them what else they would like, what they would change, etc., and the car successor was just completely terrible (maybe 355->360?). Basically designers should design things to be good and people will like them, instead of asking people what (they think) they want and designing around that, because then you end up with a RAV4 (or whatever the bike equivalent is here, a Versys 650?).
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Jun 16, 2022 18:41
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LimaBiker posted:I found a cute boy to plop onto the back of my bike! OP delivers!
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Jun 16, 2022 18:51
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Toe Rag posted:To continue the Clarkson references, there was one particular Ferrari which he said was one of their best cars. Ferrari then convened a focus group of its owners, asked them what else they would like, what they would change, etc., and the car successor was just completely terrible (maybe 355->360?). Basically designers should design things to be good and people will like them, instead of asking people what (they think) they want and designing around that, because then you end up with a RAV4 (or whatever the bike equivalent is here, a Versys 650?). OTOH the rav4 was the best selling car last year so if they want to make money hand over fist… Also I am actually struggling to think what ferrari that’s actually referring to within top gear time, I think it would have to be 360->430 since 360 was a pretty big diversion from 355 but 430 was the new engine block family with maserati that absolutely was focus grouped
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Jun 16, 2022 18:54
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Toe Rag posted:To continue the Clarkson references, there was one particular Ferrari which he said was one of their best cars. Ferrari then convened a focus group of its owners, asked them what else they would like, what they would change, etc., and the car successor was just completely terrible (maybe 355->360?). Basically designers should design things to be good and people will like them, instead of asking people what (they think) they want and designing around that, because then you end up with a RAV4 (or whatever the bike equivalent is here, a Versys 650?). Nc700 Versys Cb650 Every bmw New monster Every metric cruiser All of these are focus group bikes and I swear to god I wasn't just putting together a list of stuff I don't like but wow, it's so clear now. I'm not arbitrarily crazy.
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Jun 16, 2022 19:30
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(oops, posted in wrong thread) Leaving aside bike reviews, I want to say that southern France, especially the mountains, are like God's own riding country. It's unbelievable the amount of beautifully paved, winding, twisty gorgeous roads there are. You could spend a month here and not scratch the surface. If you think you might want to try though, I can heartily recommend https://www.we-rent-motorcycles.com in Nice. They were so helpful and accommodating for our last minute plan B (or were we plan C at that point?) half hour before closing rental. They've got a great variety of bikes and are an easy walk from the station. They speak English and there were no issues with our Canadian driver's licenses once we showed the guy what the class rating meant. They're also the place I found that offer unlimited mileage, which is great if you plan on covering a lot of ground and not having a nasty surprise when you bring the bike back. As I learned, as someone who doesn't plan for poo poo and leaves everything to the last minute, if someone had told me "definitely use this place" weeks or even months ago, it would have probably (maybe) given us another day of two of riding, so hopefully this helps some fool like me in the future. Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jun 16, 2022 |
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Jun 16, 2022 19:30
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LimaBiker posted:I found a cute boy to plop onto the back of my bike! Hell yeah!
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Jun 16, 2022 19:40
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Finger Prince posted:I deliberately avoided the s-word because to me it's not about that, it's just about want. I don't want to ride another F900XR. If someone gave me one with the expectation that I keep it, I wouldn't be disappointed, but I'd probably sell it after a while anyway. It wouldn't get ridden much if I had something else I liked better. But ask me to point to something specific I don't like? I can't. Oh yeah no I get that. I didn't elaborate cause I genuinely don't remember if that was a Clarkson thing, but to my mind "no soul" means no surprises, for ill or for good. You twist your wrist and your velocity increases in a manner entirely predictable with the angle your hand is at. You make a steering input and your forward vector gains a tangential acceleration. You turn it on in the morning and gasoline is fed into a piston and a crankshaft turns. It is a thing that exists. It may even technically be a motorcycle, in that it has two longitudinally positioned wheels, one of which is driven by an engine, and operated by a human sitting on top of it. But that's all. And that's what your description makes it sound like. Phy fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jun 16, 2022 |
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Jun 16, 2022 21:09
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Nah that's not it. There are loads of perfectly reliable bikes that just ooze character. It's what I'm always banging on about: philosophy. If your philosophy is 'I have dreamt up a vision of an amazing thing and when we build it, people will love it' then for better or worse you're going to build an interesting bike, the reliability or not is just down to the production reality of the company. If your philosophy is 'we will carefully calculate a device designed to please everyone on average' you end up with an appliance, but appliances can also be poorly made. Random reliable bikes with loads of character: Zrx1200 Vmax Zx10 Hayabusa Tlr1000 Random unreliable bikes with no character: Cagiva alazurra Virago Basically any china bike Any victory Street triple
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Jun 16, 2022 21:25
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Now do unreliable bikes with loads of character!
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Jun 16, 2022 21:27
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TheBacon posted:Now do unreliable bikes with loads of character! Sounds like you need an sxv
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Jun 16, 2022 21:30
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Slavvy posted:Nah that's not it. There are loads of perfectly reliable bikes that just ooze character. And to be fair, people do love those bikes. There were loads of BMW twins of various tallness and fatness on the road. It's like Yoda said, do or do not, there is no try. BMW tried to make the perfect bike in the XR, and I don't think they succeeded, so they failed. When you look at a big GS, they've been developing that bike organically for decades. That's why it's so good at what it is. Slavvy might disagree, but personally I think they're good bikes. Then look at something like my Suzuki GSX-S750. Suzuki just took a known good engine, stuck it in a decent chassis with good enough components, and they'll sell that bike unchanged for a decade. They know its decent, they didn't try to make it hit any specific target. And you know what? God love 'em for it. The lesson is, never try.
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Jun 16, 2022 22:15
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Slavvy posted:Nah that's not it. There are loads of perfectly reliable bikes that just ooze character. I think we're actually talking about the same thing but from different angles, because not once did I mention reliability. Although I understand how reliability gets tied up in the concept of "no surprises", as breaking down is a nasty surprise. You're talking about the philosophy, the intent behind the design. I'm saying the label of "character" or "soul" is dependent on the bike's capacity to engender surprise in the rider while using it, and again, I mean good or bad surprise. A design with a narrower intent, or one in which several design choices serendipitously combined to produce an experience better (or worse) than the numbers would suggest, is more likely to go further than you ask. Or shorter. It gives you that half-second of wide-eyed "oh HEY now!", or disgusted "oh, fuckin really?" And it takes some work to learn how to best use it, or to figure out that it's best moved along to someone else. A focus-grouped bike will likely be appealing, on paper, to the broadest group possible - and as such, much of the surprise it might otherwise generate will be flattened out. It won't do less than you ask of it, but it also won't do more. There is nothing to be learned about it, nothing to come to terms with. It takes the inside of your head and spits it back out at you. I've realized I'd rather have that negotiation with the thing, those moments of "ahaha holy poo poo". But if someone else were to find that what they really want is a thing that does exactly what they tell it to, that's okay too. Phy fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 17, 2022 |
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Jun 17, 2022 01:01
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Found this in the neighbor's yard. It's probably been there for 20 years. No carb in it And yes the crank rotates via the kick starter
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Jun 17, 2022 01:23
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Will I have fun on my Versys X 300 at a track day? The bike is tall, can it handle it if I learn or should I rent a ninja 400 on site?
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Jun 17, 2022 02:21
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stgdz posted:Found this in the neighbor's yard. It's probably been there for 20 years. No carb in it Are you going to restore it?
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Jun 17, 2022 02:23
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Will I have fun on my Versys X 300 at a track day? The bike is tall, can it handle it if I learn or should I rent a ninja 400 on site? I’d stick to a bike you’re familiar with for your first time. Can you rent a ninja 400 for just one session or is it all day?
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Jun 17, 2022 02:29
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Toe Rag posted:I’d stick to a bike you’re familiar with for your first time. Can you rent a ninja 400 for just one session or is it all day? It's all day. I'll do that, then. Kinda excited, doing it with a few friends, never did it before.
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Jun 17, 2022 02:55
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Which track?
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Jun 17, 2022 03:10
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Are you going to restore it? I would like to get it running and trade it for a supermoto. Not sure if the riders would want something like that. Not sure if he would even part with it. 
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Jun 17, 2022 03:20
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Will I have fun on my Versys X 300 at a track day? The bike is tall, can it handle it if I learn or should I rent a ninja 400 on site? Your versys can drastically outperform you, at race track especially so. It can definitely 'handle it' in the sense that you'll crash or break psychologically long before the bike has any mechanical issues. A tall bouncy bike with skinny tyres is actually ideal to start with. stgdz posted:Found this in the neighbor's yard. It's probably been there for 20 years. No carb in it 
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Jun 17, 2022 03:31
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If that thing has Yamahas first gen CDI on it, stay far away
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Jun 17, 2022 03:39
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:If that thing has Yamahas first gen CDI on it, stay far away I think it's the type that still has points, but it's Yamaha points so a lateral move at best.
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Jun 17, 2022 04:01
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Yeah Yamaha electrics back then were pretty not great
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Jun 17, 2022 04:34
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Yeah Yamaha electrics back then were pretty not great Honestly the r1's stator remains a lovely design to this day.
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Jun 17, 2022 04:43
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Slavvy posted:Nah that's not it. There are loads of perfectly reliable bikes that just ooze character. Fixed that for you
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Jun 17, 2022 10:04
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LimaBiker posted:I found a cute boy to plop onto the back of my bike! It’s a thread title success story!!
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Jun 17, 2022 13:04
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All went well! Helmet fitted, suit just barely. We had a lovely ride and many cuddles after  I am apparently a good kisser and great to cuddle.
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Jun 17, 2022 13:05
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Jun 17, 2022 13:06
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Two-up riding is great because you get to be the little spoon even if you're taller 
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Jun 17, 2022 13:08
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LimaBiker posted:All went well! Helmet fitted, suit just barely. We had a lovely ride and many cuddles after  Motorcycle dates are always the best dates.
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Jun 17, 2022 13:54
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And if you’re ATGATT, you always show up for your date with knee pads on.
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Jun 17, 2022 17:03
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lol what the gently caress
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Jun 17, 2022 17:05
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Toe Rag posted:Which track? New York Safety Track, there's another in Pennsylvania I think.
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Jun 17, 2022 17:10
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Geekboy posted:And if you’re ATGATT, you always show up for your date with knee pads on. Haha, nice one, Punchy
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Jun 17, 2022 17:14
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Haha, nice one, Punchy 
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Jun 17, 2022 17:20
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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:New York Safety Track, there's another in Pennsylvania I think.  Looks like a good one. I love tracks with lots of elevation change. One thing I'll say, not that you ask, is don't follow anyone too closely. People in the beginners group brake way too early, and if you're slow to react, you'll collect them in a hurry.
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Jun 17, 2022 17:54
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Slavvy posted:I think it's the type that still has points, but it's Yamaha points so a lateral move at best. Nah, the early year DT250 had points, but the 400 had CDI from the start.
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Jun 17, 2022 18:59
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