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gradenko_2000 posted:A defensively minded playstyle just isn't compatible with a lot of ARPG principles. You can keep the theme but there's some arm-twisting involved in making it work as far as being able to delete screens of enemies while zipping at max speed like everyone else This is only true if you don't consider D2 an arpg. Pretty much all the paladin builds used an off-shield to block tank. Then again D2 is a fairly slower game than D3.
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Jun 16, 2022 13:37
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Speaking of good older ARPGs, reading this thread got me to go do another play-through of Grim Dawn. About half way through and can confirm: game still good.
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Jun 16, 2022 13:38
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Hammerdin was one of the fastest clearing MF builds in D2, you just needed an Enigma like 90% of everybody else.
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Jun 16, 2022 13:41
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of good older ARPGs, reading this thread got me to go do another play-through of Grim Dawn. About half way through and can confirm: game still good. Games really good yeah, and there's also a mod that lets you up the internal game speed multiplier so if it's a little slow for you, you can make it like 1.3x faster so everything feels snappier. Or just go ham and set it at 2 or 3x to zip through stuff.
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Jun 16, 2022 13:43
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Paladins get Charge which can get you moving at speeds comparable to teleport but it is more of a PvP cheese tactic to desync. That said, Charge is nice to have early ladder when no one has an Enigma and you need to get into a mob to bonk them with hammers. Faster cast rate and the class cast breakpoints are super important, it's essentially impossible to make a fast casting Amazon which forced them to stack run speed. Assassin traps feel fast and responsive compared to D3 sentries or PoE traps/totems. Traps are a bit of an odd one because they are based on attack speed rather than cast but as long as you hit the max breakpoint they are really smooth. I miss Diablo 2 but I am not playing any iteration that isn't bottled to hell and full of high runes.
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Jun 16, 2022 14:09
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bij posted:I miss Diablo 2 but I am not playing any iteration that isn't bottled to hell and full of high runes. It's really unfortunate that corporatism means we'll never see Eastern Sun for D2R or D3
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Jun 16, 2022 14:14
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as someone who never played it until resurrected, I had a great time playing diablo 2 but once it became apparent that the end game was just MFing the same couple of spots in hell over and over again (or trading for high runes lol) I kind of peaced out except to pick it up every now and again to try out a class I hadn't reached hell with. The balance update that came with ladder was nice but I didn't bother to really try any of the builds that were a bit more viable in hell with it
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Jun 16, 2022 14:15
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of good older ARPGs, reading this thread got me to go do another play-through of Grim Dawn. About half way through and can confirm: game still good. I keep forgetting to grab the DLCs every time it goes on sale.
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Jun 16, 2022 14:50
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It's a weird ask considering the nature of ARPGs, but are there any good ones out there that are more slow/methodical/difficult? I like the character building aspect of D3 etc, but the "zip around at 1000mph exploding screens of enemies" gets a bit samey, something with a different, slower pacing would be interesting.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:20
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Razakai posted:It's a weird ask considering the nature of ARPGs, but are there any good ones out there that are more slow/methodical/difficult? I like the character building aspect of D3 etc, but the "zip around at 1000mph exploding screens of enemies" gets a bit samey, something with a different, slower pacing would be interesting. grim dawn is definitely more d2 speed than anything, its real good.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:24
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Razakai posted:It's a weird ask considering the nature of ARPGs, but are there any good ones out there that are more slow/methodical/difficult? I like the character building aspect of D3 etc, but the "zip around at 1000mph exploding screens of enemies" gets a bit samey, something with a different, slower pacing would be interesting. Diablo 2 and Grim Dawn are ones that I'd put in the realm of being more deliberately paced.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:34
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Deaths Door is a lot more strategic and slow, loot basically doesn't exist though. Also there's not much character customization. More of an isometric souls like.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:41
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gradenko_2000 posted:Diablo 2 and Grim Dawn are ones that I'd put in the realm of being more deliberately paced. Is there a Grim Dawn thread? Taking a break from D2R, tried PoE a bit but Grim Dawn seems more up my alley.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:46
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The “A” in ARPG is almost synonymous with “going really fast”, a slow paced ARPG… is just an RPG
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Jun 16, 2022 15:47
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Sir Dingleby Dapper posted:Is there a Grim Dawn thread? Taking a break from D2R, tried PoE a bit but Grim Dawn seems more up my alley. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3758855&perpage=40&pagenumber=194#pti15
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Jun 16, 2022 15:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:Diablo 2 and Grim Dawn are ones that I'd put in the realm of being more deliberately paced. Seconding Grim Dawn for that grimdark demon invasion flavor but don’t sleep on Titan Quest. Same engine as GD (think it came first) but in Ancient Greece. Well act 1 is Ancient Greece then you go gently caress up Egypt and China. They released an expansion out of nowhere a few years back that covers the Vikings but I haven’t tried it yet. Instead of the usual “ancient evil beyond mortal comprehension is going to eat our souls - please stab it” plot and setting its “yo the gods are hosed and the underworld is broken please punch things until it’s fixed.” It’s a fun romp. All in all I think I prefer GD because killing blood cultists is my jam but TQ is well worth picking up and playing.
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Jun 16, 2022 15:52
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Bust Rodd posted:The “A” in ARPG is almost synonymous with “going really fast”, a slow paced ARPG… is just an RPG Perhaps Divinity original sin 2 then
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Jun 16, 2022 15:54
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queeb posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3758855&perpage=40&pagenumber=194#pti15 Thanks! Excited to get into this one.
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Jun 16, 2022 16:02
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Razakai posted:It's a weird ask considering the nature of ARPGs, but are there any good ones out there that are more slow/methodical/difficult? I like the character building aspect of D3 etc, but the "zip around at 1000mph exploding screens of enemies" gets a bit samey, something with a different, slower pacing would be interesting. Last Epoch is still in EA but in my experience (and by their explicit design statement) it's definitely at a slower pacing than D3/POE, though not as slow as TQ/GD which are both complete (barring yet another expansion out of nowhere that TQ got last winter) and absolutely worth a try.
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Jun 16, 2022 16:36
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Grim Dawn is great. Get it on sale for 5 bucks and get the expansions. Maybe not crucible but the others sure.
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Jun 16, 2022 16:37
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Suburban Dad posted:Grim Dawn is great. Get it on sale for 5 bucks and get the expansions. Maybe not crucible but the others sure. Pretty sure crucible added the green fire area as a big expansion north of the first act town. Which is solid and worth playing. It's not like the sale price of it is high enough that you really need to pick and choose like it's a Paradox title. Just yolo and upgrade that $5 splurge to a whole $7.
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Jun 16, 2022 17:16
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Cyrano4747 posted:Pretty sure crucible added the green fire area as a big expansion north of the first act town. Which is solid and worth playing. nah thats ashes of malmouth, crucible is just the little arena wave thing, which is cool but now that shattered realms exists its not necessary.
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Jun 16, 2022 17:17
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Mu favorite part about Diablo threads is talking about all the games that we'd rather be playing.
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Jun 16, 2022 17:22
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Suburban Dad posted:Grim Dawn is great. Get it on sale for 5 bucks and get the expansions. Maybe not crucible but the others sure. drat it's only $5? I've got a bunch of complaints with the game, but that's a ton of quality game for $5
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Jun 16, 2022 17:58
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Thanks for the reply - I'll give Grim Dawn a shot. I guess my ideal game would be something with Diablo's loot system and character building (well, maybe a bit more complex) and the combat of a souls game. Then again if I saw a game branded as Diablo soulslike I'd assume it was a trashcan of buzzwords.
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Jun 16, 2022 19:36
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Razakai posted:Thanks for the reply - I'll give Grim Dawn a shot. So Nioh and Nioh 2? Diablo loot system, harder difficulties on New Game+ which drop more loot and plays like a fast paced Souls game where you manage stamina (or Ki) to dodge or deflect attacks as well as attack.
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Jun 16, 2022 19:44
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Razakai posted:I guess my ideal game would be something with Diablo's loot system and character building (well, maybe a bit more complex) and the combat of a souls game. This is Godfall both in the sense that it fulfills your first paragraph, but also IS a trashcan of buzzwords
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Jun 16, 2022 19:51
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Razakai posted:Thanks for the reply - I'll give Grim Dawn a shot. sounds like what you really need is to kill chaos it's even a perfect fit for the loot system because number go up in a mishmash of gear is how you get through the story and then when you get to the end game it's impossible to find any real upgrades but then when you finally get the piece that ties it all together hooo boy does it rule.
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Jun 16, 2022 20:12
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I'm getting hyped for Diablo 4
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Jun 17, 2022 06:52
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there is always more, and it is always worse https://youtu.be/SuCUIBuGDnQ
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Jun 17, 2022 15:29
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Wheeee posted:there is always more, and it is always worse What's the tl;dr? Not in a great place to watch a half hour video.
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Jun 17, 2022 15:49
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Cyrano4747 posted:What's the tl;dr? Not in a great place to watch a half hour video. Will let you know once I finish, unfortunately I keep getting ads for this new diablo mobile game so that’s slowing me down. e: the first half of the video is an overview of how legendary gems give +magic find and how much work (or really, money) it takes to level a legendary gem to rank 5, where they start giving magic find bonuses. He shows a little math that suggests it would be a month or two of dedicated play for a f2p character to reach 30% or so magic find, but a paid character can max out at 90%, not quite sure how expensive that is. They guy seems to think it’s hundreds of dollars to max the 5 star gems to rank 5, but from the other stuff I’ve seen that’s several zeros below the truth. The second half is an explanation that magic find doesn’t necessarily “increase the amount of drops you get” (though it might, they don’t seem certain) but rather it “increases the quality of the drops you get” which is analogous to increasing the chance that a legendary drop in d3 would be ancient or primal. This matters because after 6 legendary drops in a day, your deop rate falls off a cliff. Other things have hard caps on the amount of drops they give, which means that if you have a high magic find… you’ll have a much higher quality of gear after a couple days, not because you’re getting more legendaries but because you’re getting better quality legendaries. This all dovetails into the Combat Rating system, which you need a certain score in to access the hardest stuff with the best rewards. He concludes by reminding you that pvp will be impossible for any non paying character. Also, I got the d:i ad again so I managed to snap a pic and then howled in laughter when I saw what the text was. 
Chakan fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jun 17, 2022 |
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Jun 17, 2022 16:01
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Cyrano4747 posted:What's the tl;dr? Not in a great place to watch a half hour video. There was some other thing about magic find not working as expected, and another thing about how there are actually two types of legendary drop boosters despite the game showing it as one. And they don't share pities. And only one can drop tradable items. But I don't think the video is about this topic because it was found out a few days ago.
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Jun 17, 2022 16:05
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you're limited to x amount of legendary drops a day, but having paid money for whatever boosters, your 6 drops will be significantly better than anyone elses.
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Jun 17, 2022 16:16
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Magic Find stat is tied to legendary gems, which means a f2p player will have vastly less MF than someone throwing money at the game. MF affects quality of drops rather than quantity, and each day you are limited to a certain number of drops, so paying to obtain and upgrade higher tier gems directly results in you getting better drops, and due to daily limits a f2p can’t just do extra grinding to make up the difference. Basically you pay to get better gear drops, which adds a layer of abstraction again keeping wyatt’s ‘you can’t buy gear’ technically true-ish
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Jun 17, 2022 16:24
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having watched the video: * legendary gems only get MF if they're been ranked up to rank 5 * and ranking up gems to 5 is a tremendous grind if you try to do it via the free-only methods * on top of that, five-star legendary gems are always going to have more MF than one/two-star legendary gems * so not only do players who spend money get to access MF earlier/faster, they're always going to have more MF than non-paying players * MF increases the quality of drops, not quantity of drops * a lot of the activities in the game are soft-capped such that you can really only do them five times a day before the drop rate gets so bad that they're not worth doing anymore * if you have MF, then your chances of getting nice items from your five runs a day is better than if you had no MF (or if you had more MF, relative to less MF) * and since everyone is working with the same soft-cap, then players who have more MF, accelerate through the gearing process faster than those who have less MF * but the people with more MF are invariably going to be the people who spend money on the game * therefore, the rich get richer
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Jun 17, 2022 18:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:drat it's only $5? I've got a bunch of complaints with the game, but that's a ton of quality game for $5 It's weird to see that Grim Dawn is always like a dollar on PC, but is consistently full price on console (Xbox, at least). I want to replay it while on my couch, but it never goes on sale on the Xbox Store.
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Jun 17, 2022 18:06
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gradenko_2000 posted:having watched the video: This poo poo really makes me appreciate d2. Yeah it's a massive grind after a certain point. But that's the whole fuckin point and the game is designed around your only impetus to engage with the grind, is for the sake of the grind itself. Fuxkin capitalism bro. I wonder how many hours of learning and practice it takes to be able to code a simple (elementary, nearly no features) arpg. I have been looking for a new hobby for awhile and trying to find a beginner class in coding that's accessible for idiots like me is sounding more and more like a fun project
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Jun 17, 2022 18:13
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I'm just sitting here trying to get my mind around a diablo game that soft-caps drops so if you do more than a few runs a day you don't get anything more. poo poo, there were entire afternoons in high school where I'd just put a TV on and grind pindleskin over and over and over and over and over and over "Let's make it so players can't endlessly grind for gear" - a genius Diablo:I dev
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Jun 17, 2022 18:41
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That's still how I've played D2 and D3 for over a decade now. A fun mindless thing to run around in while I catch up on podcasts and TV, and recharge my mental batteries. They are excellent for that and I was hoping D:I would let me do that on the couch
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Jun 17, 2022 18:52
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