Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Board Games 5E: I thought I was having fun but it was my brain tricking me

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Rockman Reserve: Oct 2, 2007; "Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Mr. Squishy posted:

Get into baseball cards

Would probably help with my crossword puzzle obsession, at least. �Baseball�s Martinez, four letters� - do you have any idea how many recent players the MLB has with the surname Martinez?!

But nah, I want a game. Just not one that feels so oppressively unfun to play as F&B, or as swingy and over saturated with cash-rich tryhards as MtG.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 07:23

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 22:24

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Morpheus posted:

Or POC. Because it's historically accurate you see of course

It's recently been discovered that there were black Vikings.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 09:21

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Rockman Reserve posted:

Just posting to say how much Flesh and Blood sucks out loud and how much I wish there was a CCG I could occasionally pop some boosters for that wasn�t Magic or licensed anime stuff.

I admit that I am sort of FAB curious, but only for the precon blitz decks. The system seems cool, but the business model doesn't. And I concur that, to my mind, most CCG-style games are either MTG or anime (Pokemon, Weiss Schwarz, Digimon, USF/Universus), dead/dying/unsure (Deadwood, L5R, a million 90s CCGs), or never contained a booster pack system (FFG's non-cancelled LCGs like Marvel Champions or The Arkham Horror Card Game).

However, if you're willing to give up on the booster pack angle, maybe you could consider hacking the Gibson, fellow teenager? To quote myself from the last thread:

Magnetic North posted:

You know what's a card game that's not a rugpull on gullible collectable speculators, and also not a massive flaming pile or turds where Wendy from Wendy's can equip a Meltagun to attack the planewalker Seven of Nine?

Netrunner. Or rather, the products compatible with the discontinued game Android: Netrunner being produced by the fan-run nonprofit volunteer collective NISEI. There is a thread for it, but I wanted to mention it here since I first heard about it here from either gutterdaughter or maybe it was actually Panko on the discord, I honestly forget.

I finally got to play a few weekends ago. We had a great time. The onboarding product, System Gateway, was very helpful in learning the rules. We're still learning, but I am super excited to play more.

This is not your average fan project where everything sucks, is OP, breaks up because friendships end, or where it's all stolen copyrighted art from DeviantArt. They've created their own assets, commissioned art which is mostly quite good in System Gateway (and perfectly serviceable before that). It's been going two years and they seem to have been the best stewards a dead game could ask for.

Thanks to whichever goon it was that turned me on to this, because this is exactly the methadone I was looking for to cure my MtG withdrawl. Now I just have to convert the rest of my CCG friends.

You can also try before buying. NISEIs cards are available print on demand (for cost-money) or print and play (for free), and proxies are allowed in all levels of play due to some scarcity at the game's original end of life. It can also be played online for completely free on another fan project https://www.jinteki.net/.

They've had a strong year since my previous post, seemingly gaining a lot of mindshare and making several convention appearances. At the start of this month, their profile was raised again by Shut Up and Sit Down doing a review of their project as it stands right now.

Personally I haven't gotten to play tons, but what I have gotten is great. There is a Netrunner thread if you want to talk more about it.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 10:15

Rockman Reserve: Oct 2, 2007; "Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Jedit posted:

It's recently been discovered that there were black Vikings.

, I thought

Magnetic North posted:

I admit that I am sort of FAB curious, but only for the precon blitz decks. The system seems cool, but the business model doesn't. And I concur that, to my mind, most CCG-style games are either MTG or anime (Pokemon, Weiss Schwarz, Digimon, USF/Universus), dead/dying/unsure (Deadwood, L5R, a million 90s CCGs), or never contained a booster pack system (FFG's non-cancelled LCGs like Marvel Champions or The Arkham Horror Card Game).

However, if you're willing to give up on the booster pack angle, maybe you could consider hacking the Gibson, fellow teenager? To quote myself from the last thread:

You can also try before buying. NISEIs cards are available print on demand (for cost-money) or print and play (for free), and proxies are allowed in all levels of play due to some scarcity at the game's original end of life. It can also be played online for completely free on another fan project https://www.jinteki.net/.

They've had a strong year since my previous post, seemingly gaining a lot of mindshare and making several convention appearances. At the start of this month, their profile was raised again by Shut Up and Sit Down doing a review of their project as it stands right now.

Personally I haven't gotten to play tons, but what I have gotten is great. There is a Netrunner thread if you want to talk more about it.

Oh, friend, Android: Netrunner is by a huge margin my favorite game of all time - I broke even (7 and 7) at the last Worlds tournament. While I�m happy it�s continuing with fan support via NISEI, it�s not really doing it for me compared to the initial run. I�ve got a steady group to play AH LCG with but obviously as a co-op adventure game it doesn�t scratch the same itch at all, and despite my best efforts (and significant product buy-in) I have never played out a full game of L5R LCG, it�s just�not very fun. And of course, none of them let me pop a few boosters open while gaming at the local store.

F&B�s main issue is that your hand is also your resource to pay for cards and effects, and (to my knowledge) every hero released so far has a hand size of 4�.which makes you feel entirely too constrained and limited to your specific draws for the turn. It just feels stifling and bad to play, you�re very very rarely making serious decisions as opposed to figuring out how to squeak some damage through while hopefully holding onto some cards to block with. The Blitz decks are a cheap enough way to try the game (and are honestly better-tuned than something you�re likely to build yourself early on), so there�s really no harm in at least giving it a shot I guess. There�s some interesting ideas there and it�s obviously designed by people who have played a lot of card games, but it just feels really constrictive in play in my experience.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 10:26

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

I suppose I should have figured, but (small child voice) "I'm doing my part" (audience laughs) to proselytize the game.

Rockman Reserve posted:

And of course, none of them let me pop a few boosters open while gaming at the local store.

Yeah, I know of zero non-anime non-magic specigically "C"CGs that exist, are alive, and are worth talking about. (Like, Metazoo looks like absolutely poo poo.)

You could try Millenium Blades which is a board game about playing a CCG. I've never played it but I think goons like it.

Or you could pick up some Keyforge boxes for a song? Think of them as very large cardboard booster packs. The fact that the game might be dead or at least comatose matters less when you can't actually alter the decks anyway.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 10:40

Rockman Reserve: Oct 2, 2007; "Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

I am a huge fan of Keyforge as well but most of my crew bounced off of it hard. I really want a postmortem or insider scoop about how, exactly, someone sabotaged the algorithm or whatever the gently caress happened. I still have a stack of decks in various states of unopened, between still in the box to box-opened-but-still-in-shrink.

Keyforge, like Netrunner (and Magic) is designed by Richard Garfield.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 11:25

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

FFG got ransomwared and that�s what caused them to lose the algorithm.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 15:44

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

nvm too complicated of a recommendation for Mtg alternative. PM me if you want to know it.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Mayveena fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jun 17, 2022

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:09

FirstAidKite: Nov 8, 2009

Mayveena posted:

It's digital and 'free to play' but Hearthstone is in a pretty good place right now. I spend $60 a year on the Tavern pass and get enough gold to make several decks. Blizzard makes it and if you don't want to support them that's understandable but I do want to throw it out there as a choice. Legends of Runeterra is more MtG like but Riot Games has had its issues as well.

There is a thread somewhere to discuss these issues regarding video game companies btw. Board game companies seem to be all white and all male so maybe that's why we haven't heard much on this front.

Obviously I can't make anyone do anything but I would strongly urge against giving activision-blizzard any cash. While there is the whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing and how basically every corporation is evil and headed by evil, activision-blizzard is particularly infamous due to, among other things, their continued support of China in regards to the Hong Kong protests and the rampant sexual abuse of women working there which even led to the suicide of one of their victims. It's like on a whole 'nother level compared to other bad companies.

tl;dr if someone wants to play an activision-blizzard game then ok but they should definitely be aware of what the things they are involved in and also please don't give them any money.

FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jun 17, 2022

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:31

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

FirstAidKite posted:

Obviously I can't make anyone do anything but I would strongly urge against giving activision-blizzard any cash. While there is the whole "no ethical consumption under capitalism" thing and how basically every corporation is evil and headed by evil, activision-blizzard is particularly infamous due to, among other things, their continued support of China in regards to the Hong Kong protests and the rampant sexual abuse of women working there which even led to the suicide of one of their victims. It's like on a whole 'nother level compared to other bad companies.

tl;dr if someone wants to play an activision-blizzard game then ok but they should definitely be aware of what the things they are involved in and also please don't give them any money.

I deleted the original message because of the implications that really don't have a place here. There is a thread as mentioned that discusses the issues.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:36

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Blizzard seems to be more about making games that are addictive than making games that are actually fun, and this seems to be more and more their emphasis as time goes on. Maybe there are exceptions but personally I would not want to bother playing any Blizzard games at this point anyhow.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:41

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

the holy poopacy posted:

Blizzard seems to be more about making games that are addictive than making games that are actually fun, and this seems to be more and more their emphasis as time goes on. Maybe there are exceptions but personally I would not want to bother playing any Blizzard games at this point anyhow.

I am sorry I made the post, very sorry. Please let's move on from my incredibly stupid post.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:50

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

In better news, the Wave 5 All Aboard Games crowdfunding will continue later on this year on Gamefound for those who don't want to give Kickstarter money.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 16:50

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

I'm giving myself a 6 hour probation for that stupid post. Be good while I'm gone

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:02

an iksar marauder: May 6, 2022; An iksar marauder glowers at you dubiously -- looks like quite a gamble.

You're too hard on yourself

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:20

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Hearthstone does seem like it's kind of the elephant in the room when talking about MtG-likes, so I don't think there's any shame in bringing it up.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:24

FirstAidKite: Nov 8, 2009

Yeah it's really not that big of a deal that you rec hearthstone, I just think people should be informed so if they already have stuff then whatever or if they receive one of their games as a gift then whatevs and be very mindful about giving them money

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:25

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Alice over at Rage Badger made a "gently caress Kickstarter" video.

She usually does Gloomhaven stuff, so this is focused on Cephalofair, but not entirely.

https://youtu.be/RJhS7BKxbbc

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:26

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

V:tES has been brought back! Again!

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:29

Toshimo: Aug 23, 2012; He's outta line...

But he's right!

MonsieurChoc posted:

V:tES has been brought back! Again!

There's always another first chance for it to be good.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:32

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

MonsieurChoc posted:

V:tES has been brought back! Again!

The work Black Chantry is doing looks good, but it's hard to suggest because it takes 4 other players and the games take like 2.5 hours at least and contain player elimination and politicking. Think 'the most complainy EDH game' but in a good way? Still, it's the best 5 player CCG-style game that I have ever played by a huge margin.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:32

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Blue Moon Legends might scratch that CCG-esque itch.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147154/blue-moon-legends

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:44

Mr. Squishy: Mar 22, 2010; A country where you can always get richer.

Anyone recommending a video game in the board game thread should be banished, so IMO she let herself off lightly.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:48

the holy poopacy: May 16, 2009; hey! check this out; Fun Shoe

Mr. Squishy posted:

Anyone recommending a video game in the board game thread should be banished, so IMO she let herself off lightly.

What if it's a video game of a board game?

# ? Jun 17, 2022 17:58

Arzaac: Jan 2, 2020

If anyone's sincerely looks for a digital card game I'd probably recommend Eternal. It's fairly magic adjacent and I don't think the developers (Dire Wolf Digital) have done anything ethically horrible yet.

For that matter, they also did a physical board game version of Eternal. It's a pretty solid deckbuilder.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:15

Back Alley Borks: Oct 22, 2017; Awoo.

I wrote the Flesh & Blood OP so I obviously am biased, but I think it's a great system that really pressures the player to seriously think about both every turn and the overall game in a way MtG never did for me. The tug of war feels close to how Netrunner made me feel in its prime.

Now, if you're choosing between NISEI and FaB, play NISEI. Netrunner is still king, but if you want something new FaB is a fun time. Nothing will ever dethrone Netrunner for me, probably.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:27

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

From everything I've seen people are pretty positive on the F&B game but extremely negative on everything surrounding it from the community, speculators, shady business stuff, etc.

Biggest hit for my MtG friends has been Battlecon and Sakura Arms, though Blue Moon Legends is probably best in class for 2p card duelers. It sneaks in by looking like a MtG style game but is a very different beast.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 18:32

Jcam: Jan 4, 2009; Yourhead

Rockman Reserve posted:

F&B�s main issue is that your hand is also your resource to pay for cards and effects, and (to my knowledge) every hero released so far has a hand size of 4�.which makes you feel entirely too constrained and limited to your specific draws for the turn. It just feels stifling and bad to play, you�re very very rarely making serious decisions as opposed to figuring out how to squeak some damage through while hopefully holding onto some cards to block with. The Blitz decks are a cheap enough way to try the game (and are honestly better-tuned than something you�re likely to build yourself early on), so there�s really no harm in at least giving it a shot I guess. There�s some interesting ideas there and it�s obviously designed by people who have played a lot of card games, but it just feels really constrictive in play in my experience.

I�ve been playing since last September and the first few weeks felt like this, and then the ebb and flow of the game opened up to me when I started to learn how to seize tempo, predict opponent�s plans, sequence turns properly, sideboard interesting alternative strategies, etc. On the surface, it feels like every hand just plays itself out at first, but the game definitely isn�t like that after the learning hump.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 22:05

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

Back did you miss me?

One thing I want to make clear: I wouldn't have probed anyone else for what I said. I'm an IK and I was asked to get the thread back on track. So for me to post something that would likely derail the thread was not acceptable. I've done this before unfortunately so this time I decided to take a time out.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:05

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

With the golden age of LCGs being over, I don't really know what to recommend, either. (Especially since 'has exciting booster packs' and 'isn't cash-fueled' are basically mutually exclusive.)

If you want recommendations about old, defunct TCGs, the ancient Decipher LotR CCG is way better than a card with 'movie still' card art has any right to be. Just, uh, don't touch anything past Return of the King block, that was when the power creep got stupid ridiculous.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:21

PerniciousKnid: Sep 13, 2006

girl dick energy posted:

With the golden age of LCGs being over, I don't really know what to recommend, either. (Especially since 'has exciting booster packs' and 'isn't cash-fueled' are basically mutually exclusive.)

If you want recommendations about old, defunct TCGs, the ancient Decipher LotR CCG is way better than a card with 'movie still' card art has any right to be. Just, uh, don't touch anything past Return of the King block, that was when the power creep got stupid ridiculous.

Even MTG players will tell you boosters are a sucker bet and you should just buy singles.

Maybe build a cube and draft your own boosters to be excited about?

Mayveena posted:

Back did you miss me?

One thing I want to make clear: I wouldn't have probed anyone else for what I said. I'm an IK and I was asked to get the thread back on track. So for me to post something that would likely derail the thread was not acceptable. I've done this before unfortunately so this time I decided to take a time out.

You're making me feel kinda bad for not caring at all about this.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:27

Mayveena: Dec 27, 2006; People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

PerniciousKnid posted:

Even MTG players will tell you boosters are a sucker bet and you should just buy singles.

Maybe build a cube and draft your own boosters to be excited about?

Pauper cubes are cool. And cheap too. My 31 year old son does those and he and his group really enjoy them.

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:35

Quote-Unquote: Oct 22, 2002

I just picked up the expansion for Taverns of Tiefenthal, which is one of my favourite games. There's a wine cellar and guest rooms for nobles, awesome! Excited to play this.

Also got the expansion for Star Wars: Outer Rim that was suddenly released a couple of weeks ago. I like sandboxy games as a chill activity where nobody really cares who wins, it's more about the journey we all had (see: Western Legends, Tales of the Arabian Nights, Talisman) and I enjoyed the base game so I'm looking forward to playing this.

Finally, I got the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: Bureau of Investigation. I've never played any of the SHCD series before, but this one is Lovecraft themed and given how much I love Mansions of Madness and also Detective: A Modern Crime Story, I'm sure I'm going to have a blast with this one.

(I also did an all-in on both seasons of Final Girl on Gamefound, because I love horror films. I have spent way too much money on board games this week).

# ? Jun 17, 2022 23:44

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Arzaac posted:

If anyone's sincerely looks for a digital card game I'd probably recommend Eternal. It's fairly magic adjacent and I don't think the developers (Dire Wolf Digital) have done anything ethically horrible yet.

Ethically no, but I recall that DWD have done something poo poo. I'm just not sure what. I know them as the original team behind The Elder Scrolls: Legends digital CCG (which is still alive, albeit in maintenance mode these last three years).

The best 5-player LCG is Shadowfist, which was designed for multiplayer free-for-alls with minimal downtime between player activity.

# ? Jun 18, 2022 00:17

PRADA SLUT: Mar 14, 2006; Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

the tanto cuore publisher booth was packed at sakuracon, more so than any other publisher

Seems like empirical checkmate

# ? Jun 18, 2022 00:32

FirstAidKite: Nov 8, 2009

PRADA SLUT posted:

the tanto cuore publisher booth was packed at sakuracon, more so than any other publisher

What other board game pinlishers would even go to sakuracon tho

# ? Jun 18, 2022 01:07

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

I�m sure there is a large showing of board game publishers at an anime con. Their booth is largely ignored at Origins and Gencon, as it should be.

# ? Jun 18, 2022 01:09

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Jedit posted:

The best 3-player LCG is Shadowfist

Fixed that for you. loving five player Shadowfist games? 4 player games already take like 3 hours! I admit, I've never dared to try it with five, but how the hell do you ever have a successful attack if four players can gently caress with you? You want to talk about downtime? How about if I have to spend all my power and turn all my characters trying to forestall the end and there are still two player's entire turns before I get to unturn?

V:TES doesn't have that problem for several reasons. Directed actions mitigate the amount of opposition you face in most circumstances, and the game has a natural decay because the win condition (not being reduced to zero pool) means your resources are being moved to vampires where it is more vulnerable. That pool needs to be getting you more pool in the form of ousting and earning you VP. Whereas, in Shadowfist, the game is basically at 'game point' or it's not, so it's time to throw the kitchen sink at someone when they could win because there might not be a tomorrow. Sure, in V:TES this does mean that table position matters hugely so you can, but honestly in Shadowfist turn order is de facto is important anyway; if you attack backwards in turn order and damage someone's site, you've probably just given that site to a later player, but if you fail to take the site of the player next in turn order, they can recover and protect it before anyone else can get act.

I much prefer the balance of three player Shadowfist. You have a full hand and generated power against two players who probably slightly more depleted. And yet the one to your left knows that if they can survive while not using every trick they have, they'll be very well positioned to strike on their turn. That's the poo poo I live for in that game.

For the sake of argument: Magnetic North's CCG-style games by player count:
2: Netrunner / NISEI
3: Shadowfist
4: The Garbage Trash Brand Management Wasteland Hellhole, formerly known as Magic: The Gathering (looking for a better candidate, answers on a postcard)
5: V:TES

As I said, despite it being on the best at 5, I don't think I could suggest it to most people for the time and the politicking. I would love to see a faster 4-5 player CCG somehow break onto the scene, but there's just no way that'll happen.

# ? Jun 18, 2022 01:22