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Fuzz posted:Have you checked out H5? It has a different system, but maybe it's good? I've heard that the overall vibe is very much like Vigil 1.0. To be fair, the thing about Hunter is that it's all about playing relatively normal people, so you can have this conversation about literally any game about normal people fighting monsters whose mechanics you like more than nWoD. Any system you end up using should work well, because HtV 1e is a very basic concept executed very well. EDIT: Sniped, editing in a bit more context.
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Jun 19, 2022 15:53
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Fuzz posted:Have you checked out H5? It has a different system, but maybe it's good? I've heard that the overall vibe is very much like Vigil 1.0. It's actually more stripped down than even Vigil 1e at Tier 1, from what previews and discussions of the pre-release copy show. It's laser focused on the experience of "You and a bunch of obsessed weirdoes against the world, up to and including the organized hunter groups, who are niusances at best and collaborators at worst." It's also going ask to a bit more out of a new group since Edges practically demand reskinning (for example, there are only four explicitly supernatural abilities with generic effects to detect, keep away, or resist monsters, or just having a device that does supernatural things) and solid on-the-fly narrative explanations for some of their effects, and STs will need to do some mechanical lifting for monsters since only Vampires, Werewolves, and Sorcerers/Warlocks (they don't use the word "Mage," interestingly enough) get a very slim template. It seems like a bit of an oddity: its a standalone (aside from some discussion on what the WoD is in the intro and some vague references to things in the antagonist section, there's no actual requirement for it to be set in the World of Darkness!), immensely low power DIY game in the big sweeping multimedia WoD5 landscape. It's not quite a beginner friendly WoD game but it might be one with the potential broadest appeal? I wonder how it'll do upon full release. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 17:01
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Anonymous Zebra posted:I'm at a bit of a loss on how to proceed with introducing Hunter to my group. Previously I mentioned my disappointment with the 2e book, so I tracked down a "like new" copy of the original HtV splat (this was surprising easy and literally cheaper than buying the goddamn lovely print-on-demand 2e book), and I've now read the majority of it. I was going to do a long-form review of the two books, but that's too much work for a tiny sub-forum of a dying comedy website, so TLDR the original HtV book is better written and blends the feeling of Hunter with detailed rule descriptions in a manner that makes the game very easy to understand while still giving plenty of fluff for both players and the GM to work with. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/114078/World-of-Darkness-GodMachine-Rules-Update?cPath=8329_20641 Just use the 1e HtV and give them this free pdf and tell them this is how the rules are going to basically work for combat and skills. That way you have all the Vigil-ness you want, and you have the better rule set. They didn't really need a HtV2e, but at the same time it did need a facelift in a few areas. You can still use all the conditions/tilts/combat merits from 2e then without issues. It's still less book than handing a new D&D player the Players Guide and a setting book for a new game and most of it won't need to be read.
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Jun 19, 2022 17:12
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Free Cog posted:It's actually more stripped down than even Vigil 1e at Tier 1, from what previews and discussions of the pre-release copy show. It's laser focused on the experience of "You and a bunch of obsessed weirdoes against the world, up to and including the organized hunter groups, who are niusances at best and collaborators at worst." Whoa, this actually sounds kinda cool. Lurks With Wolves posted:To be fair, the thing about Hunter is that it's all about playing relatively normal people, so you can have this conversation about literally any game about normal people fighting monsters whose mechanics you like more than nWoD. Any system you end up using should work well, because HtV 1e is a very basic concept executed very well. But yeah, this is basically what I was getting at. You're just regular people fighting weird poo poo. Hell, just play Delta Green and call it Hunter.
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Jun 19, 2022 17:27
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Fuzz posted:Whoa, this actually sounds kinda cool. It's intriguing, at the very least! I'm not sure if there's a lot in there for the majority of Hunters Hunted, Hunter the Reckoning Classic, or even Hunter the Vigil fans, but I can easily see this finding a niche among brand new people who want a monster hunting game so street level it's crawling on the asphalt. It seems like it's got some Cyberpunk 2020 or Shadowrun vibes at times: the recommended structure of the H5 narrative spends way more time investigating and planning for the hunt than actually doing it, living in the shadow of the government and private sector organized hunting, an understanding that becoming a hunter means an inevitable slide into some kind of hard living. Danger is genuinely a neat mechanic, its one part narrative pacing tool, one part doom clock. Edges are some slick design, it's one roll for a base effect and a number of additional automatic effects a player buys with Experience, some of which use the roll's win margin as fuel. On the other hand, it looks like it cuts so much more out of the WoD5 engine we've seen so far that it's genuinely eyebrow raising. There's no coterie-style rules to build a cell? Hunters don't get core rulebook access to Loresheets, one of the most popular aspects of Storyteller 5? Not even in a reskinned form more fitting for how hunters don't know a whole lot about the setting? No Morality/Integrity system in a game where it brings up how morality is an important factor in the Gothic-Punk aesthetic the game considers as default? It won't matter to new players, I think, but it might give people coming in from V5 pause. There's also some setting funkiness, even in this mostly standalone game. The dividing line between what makes a capital-H Hunter and a regular little-h hunter is Drive, a concept that is and yet is not a thing in the game's fiction. It's never referred to by name in-fiction and it's not something that every person who hunts a monster explicitly has in the setting, but it is not only described as something that awakens in a Hunter, but that it also irrevocably changes a person and as a mechanic provides access to Desperation Dice. That's not an inherent problem but I could see how a protagonist dividing line of "dude, trust me" might drive some players up the wall. It doesn't help that in one or two spots the game refers to H5 protagonists as "the Driven," which probably isn't an in-fiction term either? Creeds are also mentioned as a social group but we don't really see how that works, or how Hunter societies work outside of some generalities. With all the cool stuff from the Philippines in the core, it feels like there was a missed opportunity for a 1e CofD style setting section for Manila or Quezon City. I'm going to give it a spin with my V5 group once it fully releases and see it how it goes.
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Jun 19, 2022 18:31
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Free Cog posted:There's also some setting funkiness, even in this mostly standalone game. The dividing line between what makes a capital-H Hunter and a regular little-h hunter is Drive, a concept that is and yet is not a thing in the game's fiction. It's never referred to by name in-fiction and it's not something that every person who hunts a monster explicitly has in the setting, but it is not only described as something that awakens in a Hunter, but that it also irrevocably changes a person and as a mechanic provides access to Desperation Dice. That's not an inherent problem but I could see how a protagonist dividing line of "dude, trust me" might drive some players up the wall. It doesn't help that in one or two spots the game refers to H5 protagonists as "the Driven," which probably isn't an in-fiction term either? Creeds are also mentioned as a social group but we don't really see how that works, or how Hunter societies work outside of some generalities. With all the cool stuff from the Philippines in the core, it feels like there was a missed opportunity for a 1e CofD style setting section for Manila or Quezon City. This is definitely my least favorite part of H5 I've seen thus far, especially with the way they seem to be casting it in this silicon valley startup disruptivator mold.
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Jun 19, 2022 18:57
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Also the rpevious storyline being simultaneously canon and not canon so we don't know if the Imbued ever existed or what happened to them. Maybe they all hosed off to the Middle-East like all the Elders. Cause no one would ever set a game in that area, right?
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Jun 20, 2022 17:10
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MonsieurChoc posted:Also the rpevious storyline being simultaneously canon and not canon so we don't know if the Imbued ever existed or what happened to them. Well yeah it's full of- *Slur is drowned out by feedback as the microphone is yanked out of my hands at a con event*
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Jun 20, 2022 17:16
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Old editions had some good books set in the area like Veil of Night for Dark Ages and Cairo by Night. So they made it completely unplayeable in V5. Lol.
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Jun 20, 2022 18:04
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MonsieurChoc posted:Also the rpevious storyline being simultaneously canon and not canon so we don't know if the Imbued ever existed or what happened to them. We don't talk about the Imbued because they're tied with that other game were not talking about in 5e. Kindred of the where now? keu-who? 
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Jun 20, 2022 18:06
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The Imbued existing or not existing is a major (the BEST!?!) part of HtR, most people think they're literally psychopaths. You can snip out the objectionable ties to the Kindred of the East super easy, have it be the God-Machine instead. Hell, it was the God-Machine all along as far as I'm concerned.
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Jun 20, 2022 20:28
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The ties to KotE are so hidden deep within metaplot that no one knew about it before I brought it up in this thread. That’s not why they’re mysteriously gone and maybe never were.
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Jun 20, 2022 22:06
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MonsieurChoc posted:The ties to KotE are so hidden deep within metaplot that no one knew about it before I brought it up in this thread. That’s not why they’re mysteriously gone and maybe never were. The main references aside from, what was it, the Storyteller's Guide or whichever book is in the fiction an Imbued running across a Keui-Jin and the KJ freaking out but that wasn't really uncommon amongst the splats.
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Jun 20, 2022 22:27
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Wait is the new H:tR not the same splat/setting as the original?
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Jun 20, 2022 22:45
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I mean they're just going to reveal that Drive is the lambent embers of old-fashioned Imbued-ness, right? It's gotta be coming.
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Jun 20, 2022 22:46
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Dawgstar posted:The main references aside from, what was it, the Storyteller's Guide or whichever book is in the fiction an Imbued running across a Keui-Jin and the KJ freaking out but that wasn't really uncommon amongst the splats. Pretty much, it's revealed in the Storyteller's Handbook that the Imbued were created by the two Archangels who also created the Kuei-Jin back in the day, the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen. So it's merging Vampire/Demon/Kuei-Jin lore. But aside from that, which was noted as easy to change for your own game (something rare in those metaplot days, the Reckoning Storyteller Handbook was good stuff), it only got like two or three easily ignored references in other books. I'm the first one to say Canon doesn't exist and doesn't matter, and yet it bugs me the way V5 wants everything in the past to both be true and flase at the same time. All the old storylines simultaneously happened and didn't happen.
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Jun 20, 2022 22:50
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait is the new H:tR not the same splat/setting as the original? No. It's just some randos. It's basically just Hunters Hunted with less powers and boring, but they threw a 5th ed on it to pretend they are doing something with the brand.
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Jun 20, 2022 23:23
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Pope Guilty posted:Wait is the new H:tR not the same splat/setting as the original? No, H5 doesn't focus on the Imbued and does not address them in any way. It's still technically in the greater WoD setting. In addition to monsters who have some ties to similarly named ones in the setting (and some who are in the basket of a "vampire" but don't fit the Kindred standard at all), some of the antagonists H5 Hunters face are the Special Affairs Division, the Society of Leopold, the Arcanum, and the Orpheus Group. However, it makes no mention of the Imbued whatsoever, and it seems like there will be no mention of the Imbued whatsoever. The protagonists of H5 do have Edges, but these are abilities like Assets and Aptitudes, things like "I have access to some good guns," "I have a drone," "I can hack stuff like in the movies," or "I have a really cool animal." The only explicitly supernatural abilities, the Endowments, are "I can detect a monster nearby," "I can freeze a monster in its place," "I'm resistant to a monster's tricks," and "I have a supernatural object that makes me better at certain tasks." Internet discussions refer to these protagonists as the Driven, but again, that doesn't seem like an actual in-fiction thing. They're just capital H-Hunters, because they have a Drive. V5: Camarilla is the only real hint at the Imbued in WoD5, which implies that they have a frosty relationship with the organizations that Kindred believe are the Second Inquisition, but that was before the creative head switched over to Justin Achilli, so I'd be very surprised if anything in the early V5 books like that got a follow-up. Ferrinus posted:I mean they're just going to reveal that Drive is the lambent embers of old-fashioned Imbued-ness, right? It's gotta be coming. Probably not, because Drive seems to just be a out-of-character element for why these Hunters are different from the hunters in organized groups, who, while they may have common ground sometimes, do not and cannot ever have the best intentions of a Hunter at heart. The chapter that establishes the mostly-standalone setting makes it clear that Drive and its associated terms are explicitly mechanical terms only. A Hunter would say that they're driven by vengeance, but no one in-setting says, "my Drive is Vengeance." The book talks about how Drives awaken, and how they don't necessarily awaken in anyone who does battle with the supernatural, but it takes great pains to keep that talk out of the fiction itself. Hunters are different from regular people because of their Edges and how they'll pursue monsters in their unique ways to the ends of the earth, but there's no unified supernatural source for a Drive, and Edges do not necessarily come from a Drive. An Edge could be an expression of a character's faith in divine power (and it says that True Faith is basically an Endowment Edge), or it could just be really good connections, or it could be just hastily put together prototype tech. Edges are intentionally made to have the players give them a fictional "skin." All Drive seems to do is just give a character-based explanation for how you access the group-wide dice bonus everyone gets access to for certain tasks determined by the character's Creed. Said group wide dice bonus, Desperation, rises when Hunters do badly, and falls when they succeed. It can also cause Overreach, which increase the Danger level of the hunt, or induce Despair in a character, cutting them off from accessing their Drive (and the group wide dice bonus) until they can "redeem" themselves as determined by their Drive. Free Cog fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 23:48
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:The Imbued existing or not existing is a major (the BEST!?!) part of HtR, most people think they're literally psychopaths. Wrong game line. God Machine is Chronicles, Hunter the Reckoning is World of Darkness. It's nice that they're removing all the terrible poo poo at least in Reckoning, but I don't know how much the version 5 edition of it will have in common with the old ones. I'm not sure how much utility this edition will have. I suppose it'll be really nice if you're used to the ruleset already, but it's probably not going to draw in a lot of new players like the main splats would. Someone said up thread that the new street level Reckoning would suit Cyberpunk2020 well, but I just don't buy it. CP2020 doesn't really have any sort of morality struggle and it's really just about survival in a poo poo world while being as awesome as possible. Style over substance all day choom. The good/bad parts are defined pretty well there. It's about 99% bad and you might do a good thing once in a while, but only if it doesn't get in the way of collecting eddies and being able to pay your bills for the next month. Shadowrun is closer in the way that there's elves and monsters and stuff, but even that has a much different vibe.
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Jun 20, 2022 23:49
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I think the surface explanation for H5 being essentially Hunters Hunted is that the Imbued were very much tied to the End Times metaplot. Which is something that could be easily retconned like Gehenna was in V5. The real explanation is that White Wolf belongs to Paradox, so the Imbued will likely be a I do have hope that Orpheus will come in a supplement, since they did get a few pages in the book which are consistent with its corebook premise and pays a few nods to the events in the supplements (Kate Dennison leading Lazarus Redux as a wing of Orpheus that rehabilitates bad ghosts and the Pigment Death Rave).
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Jun 21, 2022 00:23
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The Beckoning isn't just to the Middle East, the last few books have mentioned that several elders have been Beckoned to South America, Central Africa, the Far East, etc. It's basically a, "they're not here anymore, they could have gone wherever the hell you want them to in your game."
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Jun 21, 2022 00:50
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Fuzz posted:The Beckoning isn't just to the Middle East, the last few books have mentioned that several elders have been Beckoned to South America, Central Africa, the Far East, etc. They're not here, they went to Foreignerland, because no one would want to play in these areas. ...I like the Ashirra and the Laibon, ok?
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Jun 21, 2022 01:56
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Fuzz posted:The Beckoning isn't just to the Middle East, the last few books have mentioned that several elders have been Beckoned to South America, Central Africa, the Far East, etc. lol, that's somehow even worse "the elders have hosed off from all the white countries to the non white ones" At least Middle East (which was bad too, mind) had the excuse of being the place where the First and Second City were and theoretically the area with the greatest density of really loving old 4th and 5th generation fangs
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Jun 21, 2022 03:11
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ZearothK posted:lol, that's somehow even worse
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Jun 21, 2022 03:19
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Zereth posted:Imagine if you go to one of those locations trying to track down an elder you know and you find that they think all their local elders went to your home area. I'm envisioning a sidebar ad on vampire.net. "Find low generations elders in your area"
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Jun 21, 2022 04:10
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ZearothK posted:lol, that's somehow even worse They've hosed off to Russia and the Canadian wilderness too. Basically wherever. Antarctica if you want, and the implication from the book is specifically talking about them loving off FROM Northern Africa to somewhere else, so it's pretty clearly just a conceit of "play the game wherever you want, the really old immovable object vampires have all hosed off and left leaving the politics actually approachable by Neonates." EDIT: honestly at this point we should just make two separate threads for CoD and WoD, since they're different enough and the same discussions over and over is getting old and sucking all the air out of the room for people actually wanting to discuss like, the actual games. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 04:24
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Free Cog posted:Probably not, because Drive seems to just be a out-of-character element for why these Hunters are different from the hunters in organized groups, who, while they may have common ground sometimes, do not and cannot ever have the best intentions of a Hunter at heart. The chapter that establishes the mostly-standalone setting makes it clear that Drive and its associated terms are explicitly mechanical terms only. A Hunter would say that they're driven by vengeance, but no one in-setting says, "my Drive is Vengeance." The book talks about how Drives awaken, and how they don't necessarily awaken in anyone who does battle with the supernatural, but it takes great pains to keep that talk out of the fiction itself. Hunters are different from regular people because of their Edges and how they'll pursue monsters in their unique ways to the ends of the earth, but there's no unified supernatural source for a Drive, and Edges do not necessarily come from a Drive. An Edge could be an expression of a character's faith in divine power (and it says that True Faith is basically an Endowment Edge), or it could just be really good connections, or it could be just hastily put together prototype tech. Edges are intentionally made to have the players give them a fictional "skin." This points the exact opposite way for me. They can pretend Drive is a purely out-of-character element, but if it makes you different in capability from hunters in organized groups - if, in fact, it's basically a given that any hunter participating in a large organization doesn't have Drive, because Drive means you're a special self-motivated go-getter, not like those normies and sheeple - then they're drawing unbridgeable distinctions between inherent kinds of people such that some drive like this and others drive like that and that means something even if they claim otherwise. EDIT: I suppose there's another way they can go, where the Imbued eventually come back as antagonists for the Driven, and the Driven are better, when you think about it, because they don't even need the sparkly powers or whatever since they have pure bootstrapping gumption on their side. ZearothK posted:lol, that's somehow even worse The real problem with the Beckoning is that it doesn't overturn the basic conspiratorial assumption that the world runs because of secret, powerful, invisible people pulling the strings. V5 can't conceive of elders not being superbeings whose machinations trump basically all other material concern; the only way it can let you play the game is by inventing a reason why all those elders are busy (even stronger and more secret elders, undoubtedly). Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 04:31
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Fuzz posted:They've hosed off to Russia and the Canadian wilderness too. Basically wherever. Antarctica if you want, and the implication from the book is specifically talking about them loving off FROM Northern Africa to somewhere else, so it's pretty clearly just a conceit of "play the game wherever you want, the really old immovable object vampires have all hosed off and left leaving the politics actually approachable by Neonates." That's dumb though, there was a billion other better ways to get rid of the elders. IF they even were that big a problem, since the way the oWoD works cosmic power won't save you from getting murdered by a group not playing fair. What does the Beckoning ADD to the game? It gets rid of Elders, sure, but there's way to thin out of the Elders that can serve as plot ot be handwaved. Now instead they all magically hosed off to Foreignisthan. Ok, what if I want to play in these areas? What does the influx of a bunch of mind-controlled Elders do? What is the Beckoning? No answer. I can think of a couple better ways to do the same: - The Near-Gehenna. All the big Epic Storyline Events from the previous editions happen, leading to an Elder bloodbath. New Vampires have to contend with the weakened surviving elders. You got your political vacuum waiting to be filled, you didn't create all kinds of weird side-effects, you even get better continuity with previous editions. - Retcon that there were never that many elders. Vampires play to win, and that leads to dead vampires. Only a few manage to stay alive for more than a couple of centuries. Add to this the fact that human population has grown over time and that every vampire generation is bigger than the previous one, this is easy peasy. - Simply make Elders less powerful. If Elders really are that big a problem (like I said, I don't think they were, I think it's a problem created by bad gms, bad aventures and maybe stories focusing too much on a couple of fan favourites), just make them easier to gank. Hell, V5 already makes vampires way less able to Discipline bloat with the way they reworked Disciplines, are Elders even that scary in V5? The Beckoning is part of Swedracule's dumb ideas and should be discarded/reworked like other stuff he did that doesn't work for V5.
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Jun 21, 2022 06:03
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Ferrinus posted:The real problem with the Beckoning is that it doesn't overturn the basic conspiratorial assumption that the world runs because of secret, powerful, invisible people pulling the strings. V5 can't conceive of elders not being superbeings whose machinations trump basically all other material concern; the only way it can let you play the game is by inventing a reason why all those elders are busy (even stronger and more secret elders, undoubtedly). Another good point. Revised and V20 stressed that Elder Vampires were never as in control or as powerful as they thought. The 1400s Anarch revolt is like the ultimate proof that they're not as powerful or entrenched as they think they are.
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Jun 21, 2022 06:04
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Ferrinus posted:The real problem with the Beckoning is that it doesn't overturn the basic conspiratorial assumption that the world runs because of secret, powerful, invisible people pulling the strings. V5 can't conceive of elders not being superbeings whose machinations trump basically all other material concern; the only way it can let you play the game is by inventing a reason why all those elders are busy (even stronger and more secret elders, undoubtedly). And the ones who don't want to go just don't go. Sometimes because Diablerie staves off, sometimes just because don't wanna. There's still more than a couple super old vampires kicking around Chicago who do that. Basically the rules are made up and the points don't matter.
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Jun 21, 2022 13:05
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Helena's still loving about the Midwest so yeah, it's Whose Line Is It Anyway rules. As for how dangerous an elder actually is in V5 that's also all over the place. Haardstadt got chumped while Mithras, provided he gets his McGuffins back, tears rear end through multiple APCs. While politely asking groups of hunters to shoot themselves in the face. As for H5, I'm not getting the whole "disrupting the
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Jun 21, 2022 18:39
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Hunter: the Regular People with Moxie
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Jun 21, 2022 18:43
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Fuzz posted:Hunter: the Regular People with Moxie Would you say it could easily be read as Hunter the Doomsday Prepper? I’m not going to buy and read it because there’s not much of a chance the group will want to play it, but I’m honestly interested. There’s a distinct section(s) of that sort of hunter that they put into Vigil 1e (tier 1 and some tier 2), so if this is just going that direction with the version 5 rule set tacked on it could be interesting for some shorter games. But if it’s just basic hunters all alone I don’t really see how it’s a Reckoning game either. Strikes me more as blue book with a few extra toys.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:13
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Jhet posted:Would you say it could easily be read as Hunter the Doomsday Prepper? I’m not going to buy and read it because there’s not much of a chance the group will want to play it, but I’m honestly interested. There’s a distinct section(s) of that sort of hunter that they put into Vigil 1e (tier 1 and some tier 2), so if this is just going that direction with the version 5 rule set tacked on it could be interesting for some shorter games. I'd say OG Reckoning definitely feels more doomsday prep than new Reckoning from what I read of the pdf.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:18
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citybeatnik posted:Helena's still loving about the Midwest so yeah, it's Whose Line Is It Anyway rules. Okay, but here's the big question. If you're really driven to achieve some objective, why wouldn't you join a large, organized group that can provide you with the training and equipment you need to maximize your chances? Why don't a bunch of Vatican inquisitors or whatever have Drive?
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Jun 21, 2022 19:36
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Ferrinus posted:Okay, but here's the big question. If you're really driven to achieve some objective, why wouldn't you join a large, organized group that can provide you with the training and equipment you need to maximize your chances? Why don't a bunch of Vatican inquisitors or whatever have Drive? Ludonarrative dissonance. More seriously, because it *seems* to be a street level game and once you move beyond that it's no longer the actual game. Again, this is based off of only second hand exposure. Particularly since Drive is just an ooc thing. But gently caress if I know. Maybe Monsignior Stoneface von Vampireganker is a hunter not out of a drive to hunt but out of faith in the Church. Maybe Lance Corporal Triggerman of the 102nd Fangbreakers is motivated by espirit de corps. Ultimately it doesn't *matter* why or why not. I just don't see the whole "it's a metaphor for tech disruptors". You might as well claim that the PCs are seizing the means of
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Jun 21, 2022 20:17
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ZearothK posted:I think the surface explanation for H5 being essentially Hunters Hunted is that the Imbued were very much tied to the End Times metaplot. Which is something that could be easily retconned like Gehenna was in V5. Hey, I'm not middle aged... oh poo poo. Anyway one can certainly do a prepper read on Hunter: The Reckoning, but prepping for stuff doesn't really feel like what the Imbued are called to do: "Something, Dammit!" It's why I like the idea of the God-Machine being behind them, different game lines or no.
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Jun 21, 2022 20:22
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citybeatnik posted:Ludonarrative dissonance. So, first off, the "tech disruptor" thing was actually an analogy used in H5 preview material to describe what makes Drive hunters different from all the big organizations currently giving vampires so much trouble. Instead of being old, stodgy, hidebound, and just going through the motions, they're moving fast and breaking things. They have that spark. They're agile. I haven't read H5 and might never, so it's quite possible that this explanation never makes it into the official text. But the thing to understand is this: it's not that H5 is a game "about" running a small tech company. Rather, H5 is "about" the same mythology that drives, among other things, our popular (though, at this point, somewhat tarnished) conception of Silicon Valley in specific and Innovation and Small Business generally: a counterposition of the individual to the collective, an offhanded dismissal of institutions no matter what those institutions are or who they're composed of, and perhaps most importantly a non-negotiable conviction that some people just have this subtle success-granting X-factor that most others don't and that's what accounts for the outcomes of their endeavors. It says a lot that Drive is essentially the opposite of joining a group with an objective and being subject to that group's discipline! quote:You might as well claim that the PCs are seizing the means of I might say that, except that the metaphor doesn't work at all. When there's a small thing and a big thing it doesn't automatically follow that the small thing is preferable to the big thing, and it certainly doesn't follow that the big thing exploits the small thing through a series of equal exchanges that valorize one party but not the other.
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Jun 21, 2022 20:53
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Ferrinus posted:If you're really driven to achieve some objective, why wouldn't you join a large, organized group that can provide you with the training and equipment you need to maximize your chances?
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Jun 21, 2022 20:54
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Siivola posted:My dude have you ever worked for a large organized group with money and resources? Those things are extremely good at achieving their objectives.
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Jun 21, 2022 20:55
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