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Answers Me posted:I don’t mean to single out whoever this person is, I was just looking it up to see whether anyone was expressing this opinion… There's going to be pickets outside of the stations so getting on any train at that point is crossing a picket line. More generally unless the strike is specifically exempting some lines for some reason then the limited service will be being run by non-union members, agency workers or scabs without you having any control of the mix of them on your train and your overall impact will be continuing to provide income and passenger stats during the strike to the bosses which are detrimental to the cause. The tweet is fine (edit: except being a passenger isn't being a scab, it's just being poo poo), people should be doing whatever they can to avoid using the train service on strike days.
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Jun 19, 2022 20:15
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namesake posted:unless the strike is specifically exempting some lines for some reason then the limited service will be being run by non-union members, agency workers or scabs What do you even google to find out if this is the case?
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Jun 19, 2022 21:00
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I'd argue that workers who have no choice but to take those trains for their own jobs or face being fired are not scabs or being poo poo, but victims of our economic system who shouldn't be disdained over something they lack the agency to control.
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Jun 19, 2022 21:24
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Mm, it is the classic argument for industrial unionism but generally that is phrased better than tweeting that everyone who does that is an rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 19, 2022 21:30
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The government are really stoking the social divisions with this strike. I guess it's so they can add public support to 'crack down on the unions'.... more so.... because we're on that hell timeline, aren't we?
fuctifino fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jun 19, 2022 |
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Jun 19, 2022 21:52
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https://twitter.com/flglmn/status/1538513817272999938 tradesmen nowadays having hobbies and talking to their friends, what is the world coming to
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Jun 19, 2022 21:54
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fellas is it woke to discuss feelings with your colleagues
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Jun 19, 2022 21:59
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'History buff' is the most trade hobby anyway, whether it's like worker's/co-op history or local history or British military history or how stuff used to be built and why. 90% of sparks have opinions on niche cold war stuff, and the guys from Western Power who were round last week fixing a problem with my cut-out were talking about the electrification of rural villages in the 30s and the how and why certain things were done. I guess according to the Daily Mail 'woke' now includes having any awareness of the wider world around you and why things happen, or receiving information from sources other than the Daily Mail. And not dying from despair or clogged arteries, very woke.
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Jun 19, 2022 22:06
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Tesseraction posted:I'd argue that workers who have no choice but to take those trains for their own jobs or face being fired are not scabs or being poo poo, but victims of our economic system who shouldn't be disdained over something they lack the agency to control. The vast majority will have some sort of choice - suffer greater inconvenience or cost by taking another form of transport or ideally to organise their workplace so they are not victimised for showing worker solidarity. I'm not suggesting reprisals against passengers but the answer to powerlessness is to build power, not carve out individual exemptions.
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Jun 19, 2022 22:06
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namesake posted:people should be doing whatever they can to avoid using the train service on strike days. Isn't the point of a strike to demonstrate the necessity of the particular service? Doing anything to mitigate the impact of the strike just makes it easier for bosses to claim everything's fine and there's no need to accede to any demands.
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Jun 20, 2022 00:05
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It should demonstrate the necessity of the workers, if the service can be sufficiently functional (i.e, make money) without them then they have no bargaining power. Not using the service denies the operator money.
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Jun 20, 2022 00:09
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bloody woke builders, even the ones that do have a fried breakfast eat wholegrain toast and use sweetener in their tea! it’s absolute madness, I had a fella round the other day and when he bent over I could barely see any of his asscrack! what is the world coming to?
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Jun 20, 2022 00:10
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OwlFancier posted:It should demonstrate the necessity of the workers, if the service can be sufficiently functional (i.e, make money) without them then they have no bargaining power. Not using the service denies the operator money. Oh, absolutely. In the case of a train strike, if I bought a ticket and never got to my destination I'd want a refund, so the operator would probably be making a net loss?
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Jun 20, 2022 00:19
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What about people with season/monthly passes? Also I thought half the point was that rail operators weren't making profits anymore so the government were just paying them a fee to run services instead?
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Jun 20, 2022 00:22
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I suppose yeah if you can figure out some way to use the service counterproductively. But just not using it doesn't make the strike ineffective, it doesn't matter if striking causes people to be unable to use the service or unwilling to use the service, either way it demonstrates that without the striking workers there the service cannot be used to benefit the owners.
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Jun 20, 2022 00:38
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Smugly smiling across the picket line as I start to poo poo myself on the train
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Jun 20, 2022 00:40
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OwlFancier posted:It should demonstrate the necessity of the workers, if the service can be sufficiently functional (i.e, make money) without them then they have no bargaining power. Not using the service denies the operator money. In Japan (I am led to believe) transport workers often take industrial action by refusing to sell tickets or enforce fares - they still turn up for duties (and, crucially, still draw wages) but the public travel for free. AIUI this arose as a way of circumventing the "ordinary people can't get to work because of entitled trade unionists holding the economy to ransom" line and because in much of Japan if mass transit doesn't function neither does society. The railways and buses are mostly privatised, so a 'fare-free' strike hits the employers right in the bottom line and usually forced the government to step in and arbitrate. I read somewhere/sometime that a British union considered a similar action at one point but the legal advice was that it would open up strikers to various breech of contract/dereliction of duty/gross misconduct charges because under British employment law you either withdraw all your labour or you perform your duties. You can't oversee a station but wave people through open ticket barriers, and you can't do all the duties of a train guard/conductor except checking tickets and enforcing byelaws.
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Jun 20, 2022 00:45
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BalloonFish posted:In Japan (I am led to believe) transport workers often take industrial action by refusing to sell tickets or enforce fares - they still turn up for duties (and, crucially, still draw wages) but the public travel for free. AIUI this arose as a way of circumventing the "ordinary people can't get to work because of entitled trade unionists holding the economy to ransom" line and because in much of Japan if mass transit doesn't function neither does society. The railways and buses are mostly privatised, so a 'fare-free' strike hits the employers right in the bottom line and usually forced the government to step in and arbitrate. Here's the secret, though. You absolutely can and should.
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Jun 20, 2022 01:09
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Could the ticket sellers and enforcers not just go on strike, or is it an 'everyone or no-one' thing?
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Jun 20, 2022 01:37
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Given that a lot of it is automated, it would probably be harder.
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Jun 20, 2022 01:55
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Apraxin posted:https://twitter.com/flglmn/status/1538513817272999938 Woke is a completely meaningless word now.
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Jun 20, 2022 07:22
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Apraxin posted:https://twitter.com/flglmn/status/1538513817272999938 Bring back great British builders who are only allowed to discuss immigrants, whats now illegal because of the EU and what's wrong with good old imperial measurements. I know that the Mail has a large audience and that I basically live in a leftist echo chamber but everything I see from it is beyond self parody
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Jun 20, 2022 07:29
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Apraxin posted:https://twitter.com/flglmn/status/1538513817272999938 Does make me wonder, what is it about the conservative brain that just LOVES to assign stereotypes to people? Do they want to make sure everybody is correctly in their rightful place, or are they just too lacking in empathy to understand that not everyone thinks the same way? Probably both.
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Jun 20, 2022 07:40
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when I worked as labourer to various trades we rarely had a fry up first thing because you wouldn't be able to get poo poo done after a mega breakfast with extra black pudden and fried bread
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Jun 20, 2022 08:07
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If builders spent less time eating avocado on toast we might have more bloomin ‘ouses!!!!
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Jun 20, 2022 08:31
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This morning I'm getting an artisanal almond croissant and a latte from the local coffee place and then coming back to work from home. If I see a builder along the way I'll give him a knowing nod. Thank you for your service, builder.
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Jun 20, 2022 08:33
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Jippa posted:Woke is a completely meaningless word now. Nah it just means pussy now. The papers have just found a new word since they can't call people sissies without being accused of homophobia.
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Jun 20, 2022 08:56
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From a random tweet I saw the other day, station operators refusing to close ticket barriers on driver's strike days would be considered secondary action in the UK and illegal, as they're not the ones on strike.Jippa posted:Woke is a completely meaningless word now. It's a term used by black activists in the US that never had any real purchase in the UK prior to the Daily Mail discovering it anyway.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:20
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When people tried to shift it from "staying" woke to "being" woke, it lost all meaning
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Jun 20, 2022 09:25
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Apraxin posted:https://twitter.com/flglmn/status/1538513817272999938 I work with a guy who's vegetarian, loves gardening and hardcore into animal rights, but he still thinks the Rwanda plan is great and voted for brexit. The Daily Mail can breath easy.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:41
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Kokoro Wish posted:Here's the secret, though. Giving away goods and services without approval and/or justification is treated as theft from your employer. It's absolutely a dismissal offence, and it will probably lead to prosecution if the scale is grand enough.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:44
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bessantj posted:I work with a guy who's vegetarian, loves gardening and hardcore into animal rights, but he still thinks the Rwanda plan is great and voted for brexit. The Daily Mail can breath easy. Is he a failed artist with a grudge too?
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Jun 20, 2022 09:46
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bessantj posted:I work with a guy who's vegetarian, loves gardening and hardcore into animal rights, but he still thinks the Rwanda plan is great and voted for brexit. The Daily Mail can breath easy. Seems reasonably consistent if you only care about the suffering of non-human animals. It's a bit niche, but at least it's an ethos
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Jun 20, 2022 09:47
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His Divine Shadow posted:Is he a failed artist with a grudge too? Ha. He's quite left on many issues, always votes Labour and hate the tories. We all contain interesting contradictions. Failed Imagineer posted:Seems reasonably consistent if you only care about the suffering of non-human animals. It's a bit niche, but at least it's an ethos He's also the classic "gays can get married if they want to, but don't shove it in my face."
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Jun 20, 2022 09:56
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Noxville posted:Does make me wonder, what is it about the conservative brain that just LOVES to assign stereotypes to people? Do they want to make sure everybody is correctly in their rightful place, or are they just too lacking in empathy to understand that not everyone thinks the same way? Probably both. I think the former is definitely involved. Stereotypes, archetypes, roles to perform, all favourites of conservative thought. Academics and actors are supposed to be Is it Witches Abroad where the toymaker or someone gets executed for not being red-faced and jolly enough, in the perfect storybook land? Something like that.
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Jun 20, 2022 10:10
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Yep, Witches Abroad.
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Jun 20, 2022 10:14
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That and the neoliberal model says that you should work and be a passive consumer whenever you're not doing your job of creating something useful for capital. Time spent wondering why things are the way they are without doing it through a sanctioned consumer product is time wasted, that may lead to dangerous academic thought.
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Jun 20, 2022 10:16
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I like my proletariat like my porridge - lumpen as hell
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Jun 20, 2022 10:19
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Kinda sucks that there is almost nowhere on the internet to discuss anything that doesnt leverage you as fodder for venture capitalist speculation. And signing up here just meant you were funding an idiot racist wife-beater until very recently. Looking forward to discover that Jeffrey is a CIA op
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Jun 20, 2022 10:23
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Failed Imagineer posted:I like my proletariat like my porridge - lumpen as hell 
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Jun 20, 2022 10:24
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