Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

Diva Cupcake posted:

lol. lmao. I think most orgs are using SaaS but still.
https://twitter.com/HackingLZ/status/1532480905335345152

And here I thought the problem is that it's an inferior Wiki with annoying JIRA integration.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418

Diva Cupcake posted:

lol. lmao. I think most orgs are using SaaS but still.
https://twitter.com/HackingLZ/status/1532480905335345152

Gfdi my last upgrade for the last jira cve is next week, and now this?

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Diva Cupcake posted:

lol. lmao. I think most orgs are using SaaS but still.
https://twitter.com/HackingLZ/status/1532480905335345152

Yeah we have on prem Conflucne we're decom'ing but its thankfully not internet facing.

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011
Excellent time for us to have just bought cloud Confluence licenses.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
So, uh, maybe my zero trust model is appropriate after all.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

some kinda jackal posted:

So, uh, maybe my zero trust model is appropriate after all.

seccomp and walk backwards into hell

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Great, going to fail my next audit because our confluence web shell doesn't have a login banner

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Is anyone using cryptomator to create a "secure" file enclave on shared storage?

I want to throw some backups of my personal documents (passport, various licenses, etc) on iCloud Drive where I can get to them from my Mac and iOS devices, but don't trust that I won't accidentally or forgetfully enable icloud drive on my work mac or something. Probably paranoid but whatever.

I currently store these in a password protected encrypted DMG on iCloud already, but since you can't open a DMG on iOS I'm kind of hosed if I need to refer to them while not on my laptop.

Cryptomator seems to do the thing and source is available. It doesn't seem very shady so I'm willing to just fork out the $16 one-time IAP for lifetime updates. If the app disappears I can always just compile and sideload myself with my developer ID.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to access these files, but when I did it was usually when I was on a mobile device.

Not sure if there's a better alternative. This is just after thirty minutes of googling, and seems to be a workable solution.

Mierdaan
Sep 14, 2004

Pillbug

some kinda jackal posted:

Is anyone using cryptomator to create a "secure" file enclave on shared storage?

I used TrueCrypt for years for this, VeraCrypt now.

Raine
Apr 30, 2013

ACCELERATIONIST SUPERDOOMER



https://www.hertzbleed.com/

a few of my computer toucher friends are talking about this

e.

quote:

Hertzbleed is a new family of side-channel attacks: frequency side channels. In the worst case, these attacks can allow an attacker to extract cryptographic keys from remote servers that were previously believed to be secure.

Hertzbleed takes advantage of our experiments showing that, under certain circumstances, the dynamic frequency scaling of modern x86 processors depends on the data being processed. This means that, on modern processors, the same program can run at a different CPU frequency (and therefore take a different wall time) when computing, for example, 2022 + 23823 compared to 2022 + 24436.

Hertzbleed is a real, and practical, threat to the security of cryptographic software. We have demonstrated how a clever attacker can use a novel chosen-ciphertext attack against SIKE to perform full key extraction via remote timing, despite SIKE being implemented as “constant time”.

The Hertzbleed paper will appear in the 31st USENIX Security Symposium (Boston, 10–12 August 2022) with the following title: "Hertzbleed: Turning Power Side-Channel Attacks Into Remote Timing Attacks on x86"

You can download a preprint from here.

The paper is the result of a collaboration between the following researchers:

Yingchen Wang (University of Texas at Austin)
Riccardo Paccagnella (University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)
Elizabeth Tang He (University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)
Hovav Shacham (University of Texas at Austin)
Christopher Fletcher (University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)
David Kohlbrenner (University of Washington)

...

Intel’s security advisory states that all Intel processors are affected. We experimentally confirmed that several Intel processors are affected, including desktop and laptop models from the 8th to the 11th generation Core microarchitecture.

AMD’s security advisory states that several of their desktop, mobile and server processors are affected. We experimentally confirmed that AMD Ryzen processors are affected, including desktop and laptop models from the Zen 2 and Zen 3 microarchitectures.

Other processor vendors (e.g., ARM) also implement frequency scaling in their products and were made aware of Hertzbleed. However, we have not confirmed if they are, or are not, affected by Hertzbleed.

...

Hertzbleed shows that on modern x86 CPUs, power side-channel attacks can be turned into (even remote!) timing attacks—lifting the need for any power measurement interface. The cause is that, under certain circumstances, periodic CPU frequency adjustments depend on the current CPU power consumption, and these adjustments directly translate to execution time differences (as 1 hertz = 1 cycle per second).

Second, Hertzbleed shows that, even when implemented correctly as constant time, cryptographic code can still leak via remote timing analysis. The result is that current industry guidelines for how to write constant-time code (such as Intel’s one) are insufficient to guarantee constant-time execution on modern processors.

...

Hertzbleed is tracked under CVE-2022-23823 and CVE-2022-24436 in the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE) system.

...

The root cause of Hertzbleed is dynamic frequency scaling, a feature of modern processors, used to reduce power consumption (during low CPU loads) and to ensure that the system stays below power and thermal limits (during high CPU loads).

...

We disclosed our findings, together with proof-of-concept code, to Intel, Cloudflare and Microsoft in Q3 2021 and to AMD in Q1 2022. Intel originally requested our findings be held under embargo until May 10, 2022. Later, Intel requested a significant extension of that embargo, and we coordinated with them on publicly disclosing our findings on June 14, 2022.

Raine fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 15, 2022

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418

some kinda jackal posted:

Is anyone using cryptomator to create a "secure" file enclave on shared storage?

I want to throw some backups of my personal documents (passport, various licenses, etc) on iCloud Drive where I can get to them from my Mac and iOS devices, but don't trust that I won't accidentally or forgetfully enable icloud drive on my work mac or something. Probably paranoid but whatever.

I currently store these in a password protected encrypted DMG on iCloud already, but since you can't open a DMG on iOS I'm kind of hosed if I need to refer to them while not on my laptop.

Cryptomator seems to do the thing and source is available. It doesn't seem very shady so I'm willing to just fork out the $16 one-time IAP for lifetime updates. If the app disappears I can always just compile and sideload myself with my developer ID.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to access these files, but when I did it was usually when I was on a mobile device.

Not sure if there's a better alternative. This is just after thirty minutes of googling, and seems to be a workable solution.

Its simple, but I'm just using gpg for this type of thing. It can encrypt(and sign) and you can just keep your keys somewhere safe.

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.


Grimey Drawer
Anybody anticipating any funtimes with IE 11 dipping out today? My company has a standalone solution for our smart credentials but I know at least a few customers (mostly big gov't agencies) have been keeping IE around just to use the browser Java applet :doh:

Unrelated:

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

What will South Korea do without IE for banking?

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

Raine posted:

https://www.hertzbleed.com/

a few of my computer toucher friends are talking about this

e.

The fix: Disable all forms of clock speed changing. Boost clocks must be disabled for security reasons.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!



Son of a bitch. I completely missed the significance of that.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!


Darchangel posted:

Son of a bitch. I completely missed the significance of that.

For Matrix 2, Smith decides "this is my sequel" and conducts injection attacks.

Takes No Damage
Nov 20, 2004

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.


Grimey Drawer

Chronojam posted:

For Matrix 2, Smith decides "this is my sequel" and conducts injection attacks.

DDOS, surely?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Chronojam posted:

For Matrix 2, Smith decides "this is my sequel" and conducts injection attacks.

Obviously you didn’t see the fourth one.

SlowBloke
Aug 14, 2017
Microsoft has just announced defender for individuals

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ww/microsoft-365/microsoft-defender-for-individuals

On windows, you get pretty much nothing more than stock windows defender(no XDR).
On macOS, iOS and android you get pretty much the same features of defender for endpoint beside microsoft tunnel.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003

Raine posted:

https://www.hertzbleed.com/

a few of my computer toucher friends are talking about this

e.

For anyone curious how the gently caress this could be working the short version of this is:
A) The power a CPU consumes does depend on the overall number of 0's and 1's in the data being worked on. This is because static ram (ie registers, ie flip-flops) consume different amounts of power depending on their state. This isn't shocking but...
B) Some crypto algorithms can result in a large difference in the number of 0's or 1's in the data as they decrypt something either successfully or unsuccessfully, in a way that can reveal info about the key.

"In our attack, we show that, when provided with a specially-crafted input, SIKE’s decapsulation algorithm produces anomalous 0 values that depend on single bits of the key. Worse so, these values cause the algorithm to get stuck and operate on intermediate values that are also 0 for the remainder of the decapsulation. When this happens, the processor consumes less power and runs at a higher frequency than usual, and therefore decapsulation takes a shorter wall time."

Obviously this instance with SIKE is fairly egregious it seems, but any time there's been existing power side channel attacks this could be translated to a frequency/timing attack with presumably varying degrees of difficulty.

EDIT: Seems like it's going to be tough to allow userspace applications to routinely request cpu throttling to be temporarily disabled to execute some algorithm in a constant-wall-time context. Even if you could do something like request the kernel to schedule a certain function in a context that only returns after a constant wall time, you could use some other query channel to determine the current CPU speed most likely. The paper even suggested they could get data from AES-NI instructions implying the extra power draw of the AES engine in the core was affecting the overall throttling of the CPU.

Rescue Toaster fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 20, 2022

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Rescue Toaster posted:

Obviously this instance with SIKE is fairly egregious it seems, but any time there's been existing power side channel attacks this could be translated to a frequency/timing attack with presumably varying degrees of difficulty.

EDIT: Seems like it's going to be tough to allow userspace applications to routinely request cpu throttling to be temporarily disabled to execute some algorithm in a constant-wall-time context. Even if you could do something like request the kernel to schedule a certain function in a context that only returns after a constant wall time, you could use some other query channel to determine the current CPU speed most likely. The paper even suggested they could get data from AES-NI instructions implying the extra power draw of the AES engine in the core was affecting the overall throttling of the CPU.

Both AMD and Intel rated this as "medium" on the vuln scale because it only works when the cryptography functions are basically the only thing running on the CPU. Otherwise the random noise of other workloads will make it very difficult to see the effects of these minuscule 1/0 differences.

So for an attacker, running a second process to oracle out the state of the CPU via how fast it complete won't work. That process itself will alter the CPU speed you're trying to measure, and there's no chance that your oracle busywork is more delicate and finer-grained than the AES hardware.

So rather than trying to solve this by having the crypto set the CPU into static clockspeed, you can:
1. Easy solution: block everything from seeing the clockspeed -- default userspace already is, and in cloud computing it should be easy to block VMs from getting super-granular stats of the host CPU.
2. For the extra-paranoid, change your SIKE or whatever other potentially vulnerable application to spawn a thread of extra make-work during sensitive key decryption.



Alternately: run F@H on all your servers for extra security

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
BRB adding crypto miner to my list of mandated security agents for server deployments

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

Hows everyones day going?

I just found two compromised IAM accounts being accessed from Tor exit nodes. My urgent appeals to have keys at the very least deactivated were met with scorn as that could affect production, and I was unable to convince the powers to be to at least change the IAM password. Now that person was able to create a new role and I get to spend more time chasing this poo poo down.

Anyone hiring? Thinking its time to bounce only 7 months in. Have to just pull the bandaid quick sometimes I guess.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"
:eyepop:

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






BaseballPCHiker posted:

Hows everyones day going?

I just found two compromised IAM accounts being accessed from Tor exit nodes. My urgent appeals to have keys at the very least deactivated were met with scorn as that could affect production, and I was unable to convince the powers to be to at least change the IAM password. Now that person was able to create a new role and I get to spend more time chasing this poo poo down.

Anyone hiring? Thinking its time to bounce only 7 months in. Have to just pull the bandaid quick sometimes I guess.

Post the company name so we can short them.


(No I'm just kidding don't do that)

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Hows everyones day going?

I just found two compromised IAM accounts being accessed from Tor exit nodes. My urgent appeals to have keys at the very least deactivated were met with scorn as that could affect production, and I was unable to convince the powers to be to at least change the IAM password. Now that person was able to create a new role and I get to spend more time chasing this poo poo down.

Anyone hiring? Thinking its time to bounce only 7 months in. Have to just pull the bandaid quick sometimes I guess.

LMAO if you don't have the authority to take down possible compromised accounts and/or keys.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

Sickening posted:

LMAO if you don't have the authority to take down possible compromised accounts and/or keys.

I take it you havent seen many of my posts in here since Ive started at this place. Its so god drat bad. I've had a major move, and a baby in the timeframe so I'm really treading water until things settle down. If I stay until November I wont have to pay back my sign on bonus too. Just have to make it until then....

Or find something before the economy takes a turn for the worse. I dont know. This place is 100% going to end up in the news at some point and I dont want to be associated with them when it does.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Sounds like a situation that calls for having everything in writing with timestamps (emails) and then trying not to involve yourself too much and just coast.

astral
Apr 26, 2004

BonHair posted:

Sounds like a situation that calls for having everything in writing with timestamps (emails) and then trying not to involve yourself too much and just coast.

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet

BonHair posted:

Sounds like a situation that calls for having everything in writing with timestamps (emails) and then trying not to involve yourself too much and just coast.

Yeah, sometimes all you can do is cover your rear end and leave the glue huffers to their scissors footrace.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

BaseballPCHiker posted:

I take it you havent seen many of my posts in here since Ive started at this place. Its so god drat bad.

Have you thought more about that whole "narc on them to their insurance companies" idea at all? In other professions you can get bounties for doing that...

Though I don't know if they give them for reporting things that would just cause the insurance to be cancelled, rather than actual fraud.

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

If you need to leave early, you can negotiate as part of your offer that the new place will give you a bonus to pay off the old place.

But also just CYA and stop caring.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Happiness Commando posted:

If you need to leave early, you can negotiate as part of your offer that the new place will give you a bonus to pay off the old place.

I think this is good advice. Might as well start looking now and see where you end up.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Man, that reminds me of a few jobs back, working for a mom and pop webhost back in 2001. Someone popped one of our web servers and instead of just pulling the literal plug to stop any activity, my manager at the time decided we should have a big meeting to discuss what we were going to do, because he didn't want availability impacted.

Meanwhile dude just rm -rf / 'd the server so yea

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



nobody in infosec gives a poo poo if you worked at a place during a breach unless it was directly your fault. and if you're at the level where they'd be able to actually say it was directly your fault, you're also at the level where nobody gives a poo poo about breaches. instead, they'd give a poo poo about stock prices. and stock price don't care about breaches - after 6 months the impact is gone and so long as you have a convincing story about making a poo poo-ton of money at the expense of security you'd probably be fine

Achmed Jones fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jun 24, 2022

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Hows everyones day going?

I just found two compromised IAM accounts being accessed from Tor exit nodes. My urgent appeals to have keys at the very least deactivated were met with scorn as that could affect production, and I was unable to convince the powers to be to at least change the IAM password. Now that person was able to create a new role and I get to spend more time chasing this poo poo down.

Anyone hiring? Thinking its time to bounce only 7 months in. Have to just pull the bandaid quick sometimes I guess.

Document for evidence and brace for impact

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Achmed Jones posted:

nobody in infosec gives a poo poo if you worked at a place during a breach unless it was directly your fault.

It's actually a plus if you have that kind of real world IR experience.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



yeah good point

Cup Runneth Over
Aug 8, 2009

She said life's
Too short to worry
Life's too long to wait
It's too short
Not to love everybody
Life's too long to hate


Just treat the IAM accounts like an ant farm or aquarium and watch what they do. At best it could teach you something, at worst it's entertaining.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

BonHair posted:

Sounds like a situation that calls for having everything in writing with timestamps (emails) and then trying not to involve yourself too much and just coast.
Yeah I have chat logs and emails at least showing that I tried to get us to do something.

Klyith posted:

Have you thought more about that whole "narc on them to their insurance companies" idea at all? In other professions you can get bounties for doing that...
Though I don't know if they give them for reporting things that would just cause the insurance to be cancelled, rather than actual fraud.
I havent seriously considered it. Maybe on my way out?

Happiness Commando posted:

If you need to leave early, you can negotiate as part of your offer that the new place will give you a bonus to pay off the old place.
But also just CYA and stop caring.
This is mostly where I am at now. I cant convince this company to get their poo poo together. Its exhausting to have to explain and justify the most basic of security controls only to get shot down over and over.

Show up collect the paychecks and move on.

Achmed Jones posted:

nobody in infosec gives a poo poo if you worked at a place during a breach unless it was directly your fault. and if you're at the level where they'd be able to actually say it was directly your fault, you're also at the level where nobody gives a poo poo about breaches. instead, they'd give a poo poo about stock prices. and stock price don't care about breaches - after 6 months the impact is gone and so long as you have a convincing story about making a poo poo-ton of money at the expense of security you'd probably be fine
Good point. But I dont want to work extra hard during some self inflicted incident.

CommieGIR posted:

Document for evidence and brace for impact
Plenty of evidence that this place doesnt have its poo poo together!

spankmeister posted:

It's actually a plus if you have that kind of real world IR experience.
I hadnt considered that, good point.

Cup Runneth Over posted:

Just treat the IAM accounts like an ant farm or aquarium and watch what they do. At best it could teach you something, at worst it's entertaining.
Most of my day today will be tracking this down. I wonder what they do/did with their newly created role!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply