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KB5014699 completely broke ICS for me and a bunch of people :/ And not just ICS itself, the whole local network and Internet connection goes down with that update if ICS is on. It took me a minute to track down the problem and even when I figured it out and rolled back the update I still thought, no way right? No way would they push an update and miss something that big. But googled it and it's a completely known thing, what a bad update. I'm just ranting in case someone else is wondering why their poo poo broke I guess.
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Jun 18, 2022 10:42
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BrainDance posted:KB5014699 completely broke ICS for me and a bunch of people :/ It's 2022. Get a router. That feature probably hasn't been updated since 98.
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Jun 19, 2022 23:47
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MikusR posted:It's 2022. Get a router. That feature probably hasn't been updated since 98. I do have a router. I use ICS as part of a setup where the Windows machine serves stuff through a 2nd router in another room that needs 5ghz wifi with no walls in the way through a cat6 cable running through my ceiling without also adding any more hops between the Windows machine and the Linux machines/some other devices that need the wifi in that other room. But the other room still needs Internet. But the Internet has to go through a VPN with the VPN client running on the other router, and for that ICS bridges the gap. It wouldn't be a Windows machine doing this if it didn't have to be, but for the things I need it for it does. It sounds pretty niche (and it is) but similar setups are not exactly too uncommon now with people who are trying to reduce latency as much as possible streaming games with Nvidia Gamestream to another machine far away, and other stuff like that which only makes sense to do from Windows. BrainDance fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 00:11
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You shouldn’t have to justify your need for a windows feature that MS busted due to poo poo QA.
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Jun 20, 2022 00:16
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BrainDance posted:I do have a router. How does this help with anything? Just have your devices use your router? I don't see the benefit of ICS in your setup. ICS was conceived to share directly attached modem connections out onto a LAN.
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Jun 20, 2022 06:16
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SEKCobra posted:How does this help with anything? Just have your devices use your router? I don't see the benefit of ICS in your setup. ICS was conceived to share directly attached modem connections out onto a LAN. It is hard to explain but it bridges the Internet connection between far away room router and main router, so devices connected to room router can connect to the Internet, but are also only one hop away from the Windows machine. It may be best explained with an mspaint. Devices connected to room router need to be close to the router with no walls in between them. Windows machine cannot have a wireless connection and has to be in a different room. It could work fine without ICS except then room router wouldn't have an Internet connection. The other options I can think of involve more cat6 and I dont wanna run any more cables through my ceiling I'm tired of it. BrainDance fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 06:27
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BrainDance posted:It is hard to explain but it bridges the Internet connection between far away room router and main router, so devices connected to room router can connect to the Internet, but are also only one hop away from the Windows machine. It may be best explained with an mspaint. Use the other router just as an access point without a different network and bridge all the devices into a single network. Your "hop" is gone.
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Jun 20, 2022 06:33
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SEKCobra posted:Use the other router just as an access point without a different network and bridge all the devices into a single network. Your "hop" is gone. Other people have tried this, this adds latency and does not work for what I need. It streams games, basically. Oculus airlink is what needs the router in the room with no walls (though I rarely need that, because of another thing). Connecting to an access point then to the actual router then to the Windows machine leads to stuttering. There's also a Debian machine that runs moonlight and streams games from the Windows machine with gamestream, which the added latency causes fewer problems with but still some (occasional audio stuttering.) The Windows machine is also a Jellyfin server because its all already there, but that would work fine with almost any network setup.
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Jun 20, 2022 06:38
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BrainDance posted:Other people have tried this, this adds latency and does not work for what I need. You don't need any router between your pc and the airlink. I don't know what kind of weird setup you are running right now, but as far as I can gather the physical connection is: Airlink > Router #2 (Wireless) > PC > Router #1 > Internet You can just remove Router #2 on a logical level and turn it into an AP. The connection to the pc remains the same, when you axe ICS, traffic to the internet will bypass the pc completely, but traffic to the pc will still go directly. I am assuming logically right now (without ICS) your setup does this (which is dumb): Airlink > Router #2 > Router #1 > PC So yeah, there is an additional hop there, but only because your network is unnecessarily convoluted.
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Jun 20, 2022 06:58
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SEKCobra posted:You don't need any router between your pc and the airlink. I don't know what kind of weird setup you are running right now, but as far as I can gather the physical connection is: Then I suspect that does mean I'm doing something wrong. Router 2 is setup as an access point, but without ICS on it sees no Internet. Tracerouting the Windows machine from the Linux machine shows no extra hops, nothing to the Internet router. The same is true in the other direction. Here is my bad mspaint, which is probably not necessary at this point but I wanted to make a bad mspaint. 
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Jun 20, 2022 08:07
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BrainDance posted:Then I suspect that does mean I'm doing something wrong. Router #2 needs to be plugged into router #1. If this is physically impossible, put a Switch next to pc and connect through that. The PC should not be part of the backbone.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:13
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SEKCobra posted:Router #2 needs to be plugged into router #1. If this is physically impossible, put a Switch next to pc and connect through that. The PC should not be part of the backbone. That works but, that takes me back to the original problem. That is what I was originally doing when I first messing with this setup (because it seems like the more obvious way to do it) and so I set it up like that again to see, but; Linux machine connected to an access point connected directly to the Win10 machine with ICS  Linux machine connected to an access point connected to router #1 with Win10 machine also connected to router 1  And traceroute shows the extra hop, it adds latency. Which is, from what I gathered, why the general advice in the VR thread is to not use air link connected to an access point. And, while I didn't test it this time, when I was originally setting it up this configuration the added latency did cause problems even for gamestream, although only when I was streaming with 5.1 audio (stuttered, does not stutter on the ICS configuration.) I'm not a networking genius, I might be completely missing something, I'm just some guy running cables through his ceiling, but I just dont see how it's not adding extra latency to do it that way. And, that's the whole point of this setup, to have absolute minimum latency.
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Jun 20, 2022 09:56
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BrainDance posted:Then I suspect that does mean I'm doing something wrong. Nothing constructive to add but I love the proto-Johnny 5 using VR.
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Jun 20, 2022 11:00
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BrainDance posted:That works but, that takes me back to the original problem. That is what I was originally doing when I first messing with this setup (because it seems like the more obvious way to do it) and so I set it up like that again to see, but; Your problem is that you are using two different networks (You are pinging two different IPs). You should only be using one network, so in simple terms, all your devices should have IPs starting with 192.168.50.* (or 31, whichever is easier/you preferr). I am on holiday so I am sure as gently caress not going to think this through in detail right now, but I assume you still have both routers set up in router mode, both have a DHCP server running and neither is running just as an access point. Here's what you need to do (starting from scratch) to get where I think you want to be: Set up router #1 so it's WAN is connected to the modem and it's LAN is connected to your switch (or functions as your switch). Connect EVERYTHING to the switch (or switchports on your router #1). If you don't have a switch and are using the other routers LAN/switch ports for this, connect Router #1 and Router #2 LAN together and connect EVERYTHING to either of them. To be able to do this, Router #2 needs to be either in a dedicated AP mode as a DHCP client, or have an appropriate IP set on it's LAN interface. You should never be using router #2 WAN port anymore. Once you get this done correctly, all your devices will be in one shared network, can reach the internet via Router #1 and can talk to each other without any hops. The wireless devices can use router #2 to access this network, but that is the only thing router #2 does. I hope this helps you get there.
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Jun 20, 2022 11:22
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Also don' plug anything into wan port on router 2.
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Jun 20, 2022 11:32
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BrainDance posted:Then I suspect that does mean I'm doing something wrong. To follow up what the others have said above, If you can't run a cable from router 2 to router 1 , this is what the modifed setup should probably look like:  If you can run a cable from router 2 to router 1, do that, and ignore the part about the switch, and connect a lan port on router 2 to a lan port on router 1. GigaFuzz fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 13:14
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I use ICS to turn my laptop into a temporary wifi/ethernet bridge for workstations and instruments at work that typically have no Internet connection but sporadically needs one - and I thought this was a weird problem with my laptop. Good to know it's just MS playing around.
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Jun 20, 2022 15:54
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I wonder if some of the latency reduction from using that ICS setup is due to Windows itself, for example if ICS is avoiding the software firewall? But for the routers, any time you are going from the WAN port to the LAN/wifi that is definitely going to add more latency than staying on the LAN side, which should be a pure switch connection. A two-hop connection (VR->router2->router1->PC) should only be adding lag in the microsecond range (ie 0.01ms) versus a one-hop. The lan ports are a switch, and as long as you're setting things up to stay on the LAN side (and avoiding unusual things like VLANs) they are very fast.
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Jun 20, 2022 15:55
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The only ICS I care about is the Ice Cream Shop boys
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Jun 20, 2022 16:15
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Medullah posted:The only ICS I care about is the Ice Cream Shop boys is that like a Kidz Bop Kids version of the Pet Shop Boys?
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Jun 20, 2022 16:21
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Hello thread, is this an appropriate place to ask some probably not difficult windows tech support questions?
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Jun 21, 2022 03:06
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Node posted:Hello thread, is this an appropriate place to ask some probably not difficult windows tech support questions? Absolutely. Fire away
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Jun 21, 2022 06:30
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MarcusSA posted:Absolutely. Fire away Thanks. I've got a new computer built that I'm still doing some final testing on before I move my current drives into it. It's running Win10 Pro, 64 bit. It has been stable during stress tests, but when I leave it alone for a day, it will have restarted at some point. I'm not sure what is causing it, I'm just hoping it isn't some kind of stability issue. I went to the event manager and looked up the time where my computer had rebooted, and the message there is "The process C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe (NODE) has initiated the restart of computer NODE on behalf of NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM for the following reason: Operating System: Service pack (Planned) Reason Code: 0x80020010 Shutdown Type: restart" It is plainly saying its restarting the system, and I just want to make sure that's okay? That it isn't something else. Windows Update has all the boxes unchecked, which I thought would prevent the computer from rebooting without permission.
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Jun 21, 2022 06:56
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Is it a brand new install of Windows 10 with the latest install media?
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Jun 21, 2022 07:24
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WattsvilleBlues posted:Is it a brand new install of Windows 10 with the latest install media? It was from an old cd from a few years ago, so it wasn't anywhere near the version of 10 we have now Node fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 07:35
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Node posted:It was from an old cd from a few years ago, so it wasn't anywhere near the version of 10 we have now Before any more troubleshooting I strongly suggest grabbing the media creation tool (and give Windows 11 a try!) and performing a clean install.
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Jun 21, 2022 08:55
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WattsvilleBlues posted:Before any more troubleshooting I strongly suggest grabbing the media creation tool (and give Windows 11 a try!) and performing a clean install. I mean, okay, I can do that, but I'd like to avoid doing that again. Installing the updates, drivers, and programs would take some time. I just want to know if that message I posted about early makes sense, and if the computer is operating just fine, or if the message might mean something else. Node fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 09:26
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Node posted:I mean, okay, I can do that, but I've already done that a few times. Installing the updates, drivers, and programs would take some time. I just want to know if that message I posted about early makes sense, and if the computer is operating just fine, or if the message might mean something else. If you used older install media it's probably fine.
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Jun 21, 2022 09:28
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Windows 10 will aggressively update and reboot itself unless you go to extreme measures to stop it. Nothing in the basic GUI will stop it. Installing from older media means it'll spend some time doing updates and rebooting and doing more updates until it's up to date. I wouldn't worry about it unless it doesn't stop after it gets to version 21H2 which I think is the latest. There's probably even update packs for that but that's the most recently major release update afaik.
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Jun 21, 2022 10:15
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Node posted:Installing the updates, drivers, and programs would take some time. No, it wouldn't. Please dont install Windows from outdated media. Right off the bat, you wont have to install a ton of updates if you use freshly created install media. And ignore all the people who've no business having opinions on technology who want to just remain left behind when we're moving on to another OS. Install 11. Installing Windows takes like 10 minutes in tyool 2022 if you've a SSD, which literally everyone should as their boot drive.
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Jun 21, 2022 12:33
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codo27 posted:No, it wouldn't. Please dont install Windows from outdated media. Right off the bat, you wont have to install a ton of updates if you use freshly created install media. And ignore all the people who've no business having opinions on technology who want to just remain left behind when we're moving on to another OS. Install 11. You are the one with no business dictating opinions if you really think people have to adopt Windows 11 right now.
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Jun 21, 2022 13:03
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I don't know if this is the right thread for it, but it's worth a shot: I need to have users enter data into standardized templates that then deliver the content onto a multitude of endpoints in a consistent way. Like, the content should be accessible on A4 paper, a computer, a tablet or a smartphone all the same. Content will consist only of text, links and pictures. How do I manage this in a way that a) Is accessible for "stupid" users b) Doesn't require me to write a whole custom program. I think this might be something to use LaTeX for, but I have no real prior experience with that. Basically, we will have hundreds of documents that follow a standardized template and should offer the "readers" a consistent experience, but the actual data will eventually be put in by absolutely non-technical people. They are smart enough that I can teach them to use certain markup or something like that, but I'd prefer a simpler solution. I think this might call for some sort of web application, but since the content will only be updated periodically, a file based system might work as well. While I personally despise Sharepoint, it's one technology that would be readily available to be used for this.
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Jun 21, 2022 18:32
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Jotform or Google Forms or something similar would probably be the easiest but might not be free depending on your use case or I guess you might have reservations on having the data stored on 3rd party servers too
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Jun 21, 2022 18:59
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wyoak posted:Jotform or Google Forms or something similar would probably be the easiest but might not be free depending on your use case I need something on premise, yeah. We are going to be entering building data for emergency responders, things like risks, threats, approaches, contacts.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:07
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loving lol at the idea that the people choosing to stay on Windows 10 are being 'left behind'.
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Jun 21, 2022 19:10
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SEKCobra posted:I don't know if this is the right thread for it, but it's worth a shot: An on-premises installation of Atlassian Jira would probably work. Microsoft Forms would be very good at this if on-premises is at all negotiable. You're right that you could build this in SharePoint, too.
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Jun 21, 2022 20:59
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I’ve never not skipped a major windows version and I’m not starting to not skip it now
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Jun 21, 2022 23:48
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:loving lol at the idea that the people choosing to stay on Windows 10 are being 'left behind'. They are posting from the dystopian hellscape that is 2025 (but seriously it’s probably solid advice for anyone in about two years’ time)
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Jun 22, 2022 00:18
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is there a reasonable way to get on Windows 10 LTSC as a home user?
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Jun 22, 2022 00:38
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Last Chance posted:is there a reasonable way to get on Windows 10 LTSC as a home user? Basically only by cracking it, which is easy. But I wouldn't recommend it. There's a bunch of software now that refuses to install on LTSC builds, including most Adobe stuff. Microsoft has said a bunch of times that Office will stop supporting it as well, but that hasn't happened yet. Why are you looking for LTSC?
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Jun 22, 2022 00:49
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