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Free Cog posted:With that in mind, WoD5 probably considers the essential Hunter arc, one that spans across all version of the Hunter brand, as "Ordinary people are drawn into a world of monsters, and must fight back despite always being out of their depth." Yeah, I get the vibe they're going for, for sure, but at the same time you could have that perpetual backfoot vibe really easily in HtV without much effort by just playing a straight Union vibed game. I'm also totally biased because frankly I think HtV is probably the overall best game that White Wolf ever made, and basically still is, but still... for $40 anda purported core sourcebook, you'd expect there to be a lot more meat on the bone than what we're getting with Hunter... I mean from what I've heard they even left out previously expanded upon combat rules, which means you still need to refer to the V5 Core for them, which is just  .I get that OPP wasn't printing stuff fast enough, but man... Renegade just strikes me as extremely money grubby and charging exorbitant amounts for what are ultimately pretty content slim books.
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Jun 22, 2022 19:38
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I mean, I'm playing in a V5 game right now. A Toreador who wants to prove to her great-x-times sire Annabelle of Chicago that rock is as beautiful as any other music. I like the game and think it's good, but it's the weird things that stand out that make them seem bumpy, more so than they might normally be.
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Jun 22, 2022 20:00
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Fuzz posted:I get that OPP wasn't printing stuff fast enough, but man... Renegade just strikes me as extremely money grubby and charging exorbitant amounts for what are ultimately pretty content slim books. It’s perfectly in line with Paradox and their DLC strategy. But it’s also in line with the regular releases that people were used to buying in the 90s. I’m absolutely fine buying books that are 90-150 pages as long as they’re adding something to the game. It’s the buying all those books again because they didn’t put the base clans or groups into the first book. I even like the idea of putting out a game line agnostic rule book. Here’s all the rules for rolling dice that aren’t vampire or werewolf specific. Sure it’s only 60-70 pages, but it’s all in one place and actually organized. The real problem is that to break even on production they’re going to be charging 40-60$ per printed book now for those short books. It sucks, but they need to actually pay writers. It’s not just a bunch of people really invested in the game doing it. There are some, but they need to eat too. The economy of it has changed so much. At least there’s still the pdf only discount or is that going away too?
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Jun 22, 2022 20:39
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Jhet posted:It’s perfectly in line with Paradox and their DLC strategy. But it’s also in line with the regular releases that people were used to buying in the 90s. I’m absolutely fine buying books that are 90-150 pages as long as they’re adding something to the game. It’s the buying all those books again because they didn’t put the base clans or groups into the first book. PDF is the same price as printed for Renegade, that's my major beef. They're subsidizing the print costs by gouging the digital people. They FINALLY caved and made the print copies get a free copy of the final draft, but they even state that the printed final may differ, and only people that pre-ordered within a window get that offer, anyone buying after the fact can go gently caress off.
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Jun 22, 2022 20:54
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Fuzz posted:PDF is the same price as printed for Renegade, that's my major beef. They're subsidizing the print costs by gouging the digital people. That pretty much guarantees that I'll not buy any of their books. Between this and subscription services that provide less product than Columbia Music Record Club, I don't even feel like anything is missing on my shelf. I'm also to the stage of not kickstarting RPG books either. The only exception is for books that are done with development and it's the way they're doing pre-orders.
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Jun 22, 2022 21:14
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I'm still waiting for a new V5 corebook with everything in it instead of spread across a bunch of books I'm never gonna use. That's not a V5 only problem, I also see it with WFRP where a bunch of info wa sput in the adventure companions and stuff. It's... frustrating, to say the least.
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Jun 22, 2022 21:16
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MonsieurChoc posted:I'm still waiting for a new V5 corebook with everything in it instead of spread across a bunch of books I'm never gonna use. That's not a V5 only problem, I also see it with WFRP where a bunch of info wa sput in the adventure companions and stuff. It's... frustrating, to say the least. I don't think this will ever happen again, honestly, the fact that they did it in Revised and 20 was an exception more than anything else, a lot of other games just make it a matter of course to spread poo poo out over multiple books to make you buy a library. 2E was like that, you needed 3 books just to get the core 13 clans. It really sucks, but people are hoping that the Players Guide will maybe condense all the clan info into one place and maybe streamline some of the cludgy poo poo like the godawful implementation of Chimerstry and Fata Morgana. We'll see.
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Jun 22, 2022 21:44
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Someone has lit the signal that summons me to whisper "RPG manuals need to raise prices across the board, because the people creating them almost universally can't support themselves on the profits" before I vanish back into darkness.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:00
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Fuzz posted:I don't think this will ever happen again, honestly, the fact that they did it in Revised and 20 was an exception more than anything else, a lot of other games just make it a matter of course to spread poo poo out over multiple books to make you buy a library. 2E was like that, you needed 3 books just to get the core 13 clans. Yeah, but in 2e you didn't have to buy Chicago by Night to get info on the Lasombra.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:10
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, but in 2e you didn't have to buy Chicago by Night to get info on the Lasombra. Yeah, though that was OPP not Renegade. The Players Guide may be the thing for you. In defense of that stupid format, Cults is honestly the best book V5 has out and if it hadn't had the Hecata in it I probably would have waffled on it. Dawkins hit a homerun with a lot of the lore in that book, it's great.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:12
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Fuzz posted:Yeah, though that was OPP not Renegade. The Players Guide may be the thing for you. In defense of that stupid format, Cults is honestly the best book V5 has out and if it hadn't had the Hecata in it I probably would have waffled on it. Dawkins hit a homerun with a lot of the lore in that book, it's great. That's certainly a book I'm interested in if I ever really get into V5. Any info on what's in it? I still don't like the name Hecata for the merging of all the Cappadocian-descended bloodlines. It feels more like a modern name for the Lamia or Ahrimanes or Lhiannan than something that fits the Giovanni and Harbinger of Skulls. Grouping them all together as one Clan with a bunch of factions was a good idea. Same with the Setites: going further from Revised's take on them as the Clan of Faith with all these offshoots, Ministry feels a bit lame as a name though. Definitely useable though. Edit: Merging Obtenebration into Oblivion rubbed me wrong at first but it does make a ton of sense. Also makes the Kyasid fit more since they originall had Obtenebration AND Necromancy. Any info on when we gonna get some Bloodlines stuff? Or sub-clans?
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Jun 22, 2022 22:19
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The Setites should just be a covenant.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:22
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Ferrinus posted:The Setites should just be a covenant. Honestly yeah. Edit: i find myself posting in this thread a lot this week. My inner wod fanboy coming back. You know what's my favourite White Wolf Cinematic Universe rpg we never talk about? Trinity. The new one is really good, and I hope to play/run it one day.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:23
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As a broadly silent minority who only reads and never posts, I kind of don't understand what's being asked for. When I see a post talking about poo poo I don't care about, I... skip it? (I was going to include a Mage example here but then I realized I might be sparking dreaded Magechat.) Media is to be criticized; if you're just sitting there and sucking up it all and ignoring all of the bad stuff it has, you're just going to turn into the McElroy Brothers with their ridiculous toxic positivity and 'no bummers.' Ignoring something that has lovely elements and pretending it doesn't exist for the sake of No Bummers is disingenuous and unhealthy. I love Pokemon, right? I also think there's been a lot of poo poo Pokemon content. I do not become enraged when people post about matters other than the specific kind of post I hunger for -- that is to say, competitive Gen 7 VGC teambuilding. I don't go into the Pokemon thread and scream about that. If you want a positive-only, World-only, actual play-only thread, I think that's your right, but it's beyond the auspices of a general thread to demand anything but. In conclusion, gently caress Beast.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Honestly yeah.
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Jun 22, 2022 22:36
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Ferrinus posted:The Setites should just be a covenant. Eh, the clan itself shifting to be more general was a good move, the name is dumb though, for sure. Personally I thought they should have gone with something more like Shepherds or basically anything else to make them more evocative of the general idea of temptation/luring/leading away than Minister, which for most westerners just evokes a protestant preacher. The Church of Set also being not just for the clan actually was a good change, and the overall shift in what it's about and putting it in alongside all the other kindred religions like Noddism, Bahari, Shaalimite, etc actually makes them more interesting to me than they ever were in Revised and V20, where they, the Ravnos, and the Assamites were relegated to, "lol the darkies are corrupt liars that will backstab you and are loyal to no one but themselves!" which was cringey as gently caress. I had hoped they would have done some stuff with the Serpents of the Light or more than just heavily implied that Sansaricq (who is talked about a bunch in the old NYbN but never had a sheet) is the Anarch Baron of Harlem, but who knows, maybe Jason Carl will do something with him. Some more nuanced Ministry characters would be cool, my current V5 game I actually ended up playing one and he's been a lot of fun, AND they were probably my second least favorite clan in Revised/V20. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jun 23, 2022 |
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Jun 22, 2022 23:10
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I'm checking out Diablerie: Mexico for ideas, and appreciate the recommendation, but god lol owod is so cringey epigraph of t.s. eliot's the wasteland...followed by an epigraph of ice cube!!! this aint your daddy's vampire!! And all the illustrations look like this lol 
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Jun 22, 2022 23:16
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Bogart posted:In conclusion, gently caress Beast. Please don't, that's how you get Horrorspawn.
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Jun 22, 2022 23:26
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If you can't see the gigantic error here you probably shouldn't be using the Mayans as set dressing lol
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Jun 22, 2022 23:27
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Fuzz posted:Eh, the clan itself shifting to be more general was a good move, the name is dumb though, for sure. Personally I thought they should have gone with something more like Shepherds or basically anything else to make them more evocative of the general idea of temptation/luring/leading away than Minister, which for most westerners just evokes a protestant preacher. Setite Revised was really good if you haven't read it. Made the Setites go from one my least-favourite clan to one of my top. Same thing with Ravnos and Assamite revised, really. They did a really good job taking cringy racial stereotypes and making them interesting. I was actually really happy they went with Banu Haqim as their main name in V5, as well as keeping the Schism story going. I think I'm gonna get the pdf to go with my V5 pdf. How are the Camarilla and Anarch books now? Did theyr eworked? What's in them.
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Jun 22, 2022 23:28
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tatankatonk posted:I'm checking out Diablerie: Mexico for ideas, and appreciate the recommendation, but god lol owod is so cringey Oh man I'm sorry, I should have made it clearer this was a joke haha. Diablerie Mexico is one a few dungeon crawls they did back in the early early days of the WoD, and it's not great. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, they did put a bunch of magical items in the 2e Sabbat and Anarch guides, with no rules on how PCs could get them. Like a magic chainsaw and stuff like that. That could work as loot! Another idea could be the books on magical items that Werewolf and Mage got, just refluff them to be Vampiric items and they work with blood/willpower instead. Or maybe don't even rework them and instead just have ways for your pcs to learn how to use artifacts from other gamelines!
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Jun 22, 2022 23:31
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tatankatonk posted:If you can't see the gigantic error here you probably shouldn't be using the Mayans as set dressing lol Mayan, Aztec, they're from the same country it's not that big a mistake to make
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Jun 22, 2022 23:32
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Aeon/Trinity's never one I got into, but because I was an edgy teen at exactly the right/wrong time, I always have a spot in my heart for Aberrant. Which I probably shouldn't. Aberrant is still great, I ran a short game for a month or so last year before I worked sucked all the joy from me. The storypath system really improved things over first edition.
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Jun 22, 2022 23:34
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Soonmot posted:Aberrant is still great, I ran a short game for a month or so last year before I worked sucked all the joy from me. The storypath system really improved things over first edition.
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Jun 22, 2022 23:54
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tatankatonk posted:If you can't see the gigantic error here you probably shouldn't be using the Mayans as set dressing lol First edition white wolf books are.. uhh... bad about indigenous cultures, and non-white cultures, and minority white cultures.
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Jun 23, 2022 00:04
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Oh sick (other than the joysuck). How'd you and your group find the new power-build system, where it's just flat xp at chargen instead of a bp/xp split? At a glance it seemed like 150xp doesn't go that far, especially since the ceiling for so many powers is your Quantum Trait rating so you're basically having to buy up a more-expensive-than-your-power trait just to focus on it. It was an eruption game, so they had their quantum limited to 1. Edges and Mega Edges could get confusing along with the power tags that you see in Deviant, so that took some back and forth as we figured those rules out. I had also house ruled some free edges and megaedges for every point in a mega attribute and upped the quantum 1 ceiling for mega attributes since I wanted to encourage a more street level start to the game. But even with those limits we had a great variety of powers and concepts.
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Jun 23, 2022 00:21
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Things our cotorie is good at: biting off more than they can chew, talking over one another, smuggling wanted Anarchs out of a Camarilla war zone. Things we are not good at: coming up with a plan, getting along. Last session ended with a Giovanni NPC being treated well by our crew (who are working on turning our domain into a neutral territory, since Giovanni are *not* welcone in LA), the revelation that our nossie's sire is going to try and kill him off to save face, and my Ravnos joining the group's Fiend at midnight mass. Said Ravnos is going to give the resident Tremere a swirly if the latter laments the Red Star and the desteuction of his clan one more time.
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Jun 23, 2022 00:39
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Aberrant has always the Aeon Continuum game that interested me the least. Then again sci-fi interests me more in general than superheroes.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:01
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Soonmot posted:I had also house ruled some free edges and megaedges for every point in a mega attribute and upped the quantum 1 ceiling for mega attributes since I wanted to encourage a more street level start to the game. But even with those limits we had a great variety of powers and concepts.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:19
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Ok I got my hands on the Cult of the Blood pdf, gave it a quick look, and I really like what they did with the Hecata. This is post Achilli right? It shows, since he's the original writer of the Clanbook Giovanni. Most of the necromancer bloodlines are here, the Laibon Harbingers excepted, and it fits with the established lore in ways that make sense. It also brings a lot of interesting plot hooks. Definitely playing one of these guys if I get into a V5 game. Meanwhile on the cult side, I like the cults but I feel like there's still a lot of meat on that bone. I feel like there were some overlap between a few of the cults, and some interesting omissions, but the big ones are all there and the chapter to make your own Cult should help with that. I do admit to having a little smile when the Cainite Heresy came back. It is weird that they're in the book and Sabbat/Orthodox Noddism isn't though. All in all, if V5 books are more like this than their early books I'm in.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:41
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MonsieurChoc posted:I think I'm gonna get the pdf to go with my V5 pdf. How are the Camarilla and Anarch books now? Did theyr eworked? What's in them. A shame you do not have PMs. Cam has had a rolling update which removed the Chechnya poo poo and some really weird fiction bits while also updating the BH entry with some updates and some more info on the Ashirra and a brief thing about the Vermillion Wedding and the Ashirra joining the Cam. I am biased because in V5 the BH have rapidly become my favorite clan, finally unseating the Lasombra after 25 years. Anarch is... okay. It's a mess when it comes to lore, and sorta shouts a lot of "HERE IS WHO WE ARE, WE'RE DIFFERENT" without really providing that much meat to actually prove how much they're different. The Ministry entry is okay, not as in depth as BH/Lasombra and ahahaha nowhere near the entry for the Hecata, holy poo poo. Probably the most egregious sin of both Anarch and Cam (Anarch to a greater degree, in my opinion, since they had more to prove in terms of storytelling value) is they just don't provide enough story hooks and clear cut lore that's like "Hey, here is something interesting you could build into a chronicle, or have as the jumping off of your chronicle." It's a lot of info dump without enough striking creative sparks. Cults, on the other hand, as well as Let the Streets Run Red (my second favorite V5 book) is like.... punching you in the face repeatedly with story ideas and hooks. The amount of detail it goes into with the Hecata and the Family Reunion is MASSIVE compared to all the other clans, with detailed explanations for the hows and whys of every single Bloodline that ended up showing up to the Reunion. (9 total in that book, then there's 2 more in Children of the Blood). It also expounds at length on the Bahari, the Church of Set, the Nephilim, and the Sword of Irad, which are four of the five major alternative faiths to Noddism that are out there in V5 (Children of Blood has a bunch more, including a Thinblood one) with just hooks upon hooks for how to work cults and weird poo poo into your chronicles all over, and really expand upon the Occult and apocryphal sides of the setting with lots of weird Requiem-esque horror poo poo. Let the Streets Run Red is all about the spaces between cities, out in the wilds and around truck stops and small towns and stuff like that... it's very much focused on "what if you don't want to run a chronicle in a large city?" and has a lot of hooks specifically for that sort of thing, plus a new Predator Type built around making travelers just disappear. I like it a lot because it focuses on the mundane and a lot of just "weird creepy backwoods people" and odd opponents like a band of ghoul militia types that drive around in pickups hunting vampires for their blood. It's just a fun book. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10nKgESrz3Q7Afumr9_2Vjkgc6g8-DT22hKUDAG37Rmg/edit#gid=0 There's a Resource Index that has spreadsheets of every power, Advantage, Loresheet, etc, and what book and page they can be found on, plus all their reqs and whatnot. It's super handy.
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Jun 23, 2022 02:23
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The Tremere player/PC is going headlong with the cult aspect but I never could wrap my head around what it actually brings to the table. Suppose i need to check out that book.
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Jun 23, 2022 06:23
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I played a Carthian in a big game once where our political beliefs had completely atomized to the extent that every single member held a different and completely incompatible creed, but we all got along because one of the nosferatu in the covenant had taken like six different feats that made him physically larger and he threatened to eat us all if we didn't do what he said. Anyway thats how you should do Anarchs.
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Jun 23, 2022 07:02
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Fuzz posted:A shame you do not have PMs. It's good to hear "Cults" is so interesting, I've been meaning to get it for a while now. That nd Forbidden Religions. I might try to get them next month. I didn't appreciate these kinds of books enough until I started reading Pathfinder material. I've enjoyed it but it lacks the plethora of in-depth books on stuff like this which exists in (I think) both World and Chronicles of Darkness.
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Jun 23, 2022 08:16
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citybeatnik posted:The Tremere player/PC is going headlong with the cult aspect but I never could wrap my head around what it actually brings to the table. Suppose i need to check out that book. 
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Jun 23, 2022 15:42
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I do have a complaint, and it's one I've mentionned before. XD See, they introduce Ceremonies for Oblivion (good old Necromancy Rituals, and I guess Abyss Mysticism Rituals eventually) and they're cool. And they require specific Oblivion powers as pre-requisites, which works well with the more modular Disciplines of V5. I like it! Except... you're limited in the number of Discipline powers you can take (as we've gone over previously in this thread). So newbie players/players who don't plan their characters in advance can screw themselves out of even more cool stuff. Hey the power this npc used is cool, can I learn it? No, you took the wrong level 1 power. You can take it as a level 3 power but then you're gonna miss on those powers instead. It's just such an artificial limit that has a bunch of unforeseen consequences that I don't really like.
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Jun 23, 2022 16:16
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MonsieurChoc posted:Aberrant has always the Aeon Continuum game that interested me the least. Then again sci-fi interests me more in general than superheroes. Storypath in general is great, because the base, non powered game is still "TV Series Protagonist". Your normal mundane edges are stuff you see main characters do in Burn Notice or Leverage or a heist movie. You can fully skin Aberrant as a sci-fi story instead of superheroes too.
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Jun 23, 2022 17:36
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MonsieurChoc posted:Aberrant has always the Aeon Continuum game that interested me the least. Then again sci-fi interests me more in general than superheroes. Storypath in general is great, because the base, non powered game is still "TV Series Protagonist". Your normal mundane edges are stuff you see main characters do in Burn Notice or Leverage or a heist movie. You can fully skin Aberrant as a sci-fi story instead of superheroes too. worm girl posted:I played a Carthian in a big game once where our political beliefs had completely atomized to the extent that every single member held a different and completely incompatible creed, but we all got along because one of the nosferatu in the covenant had taken like six different feats that made him physically larger and he threatened to eat us all if we didn't do what he said. leftism.txt MonsieurChoc posted:I do have a complaint, and it's one I've mentionned before. XD I thought v5 let you respec?
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Jun 23, 2022 17:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:I do have a complaint, and it's one I've mentionned before. XD So house rule that you can unlearn disciplines and get %50 xp refund. “After his embrace, Eduardo’s desire to hide from everything and everybody manifested as obfuscate. As he accepts his new condition, he finds himself wanting to, I don’t know, talk to cats. Cats are cool. So now he can’t fade into shadows, but he can commiserate with cats about what assholes they are.
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Jun 23, 2022 17:46
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Kurieg posted:First edition white wolf books are.. uhh... bad about indigenous cultures, and non-white cultures, and minority white cultures. I always remember that talking about the history of the Wendio in Rage Across New York that "unlike the white settlers, the Native Americans only warred upon each other for just and honorable reasons, and only when necessary" or similar.
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Jun 23, 2022 18:11
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