|
FlamingLiberal posted:The 8th Circuit ruled against a man who had sued a state saying that forcing him to sign a pledge not to boycott Israel does not violate the 1st Amendment. so I can give unlimited amounts of cash to a politician and that counts as speech. but not giving money to someone is not speech? so the state could theoretically force me to sign a pledge not to boycott the Trump merchandise store, and that would not be a curtailment of my free-speech rights? Maybe I should dig a little bit deeper, there must be some underlying bit of logic I'm missing here.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:The 8th Circuit ruled against a man who had sued a state saying that forcing him to sign a pledge not to boycott Israel does not violate the 1st Amendment. I don’t understand this. I thought it was ruled that money is speech. This is inconsistent that there isn’t a logical argument. A ruling like this would only add further evidence that the courts are illegitimate and all future presidents / governors should ignore their rulings. DeeplyConcerned posted:so I can give unlimited amounts of cash to a politician and that counts as speech. but not giving money to someone is not speech? so the state could theoretically force me to sign a pledge not to boycott the Trump merchandise store, and that would not be a curtailment of my free-speech rights? Maybe I should dig a little bit deeper, there must be some underlying bit of logic I'm missing here. There isn’t. Who’s judge is it any way? Where the rulings are made up and the logic doesn’t matter. vvvv that doesn’t make any logical sense given the Supreme Court ruled that the state can’t limit school cash going to religious institutions. Thus the state CANNOT overrule someone free speech. Consistency is something the courts have demonstrated they have no interest in except if one foolishly follows the logical gymnastics and, even more idiotic, argues the case. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jun 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:09
|
|
|
DeeplyConcerned posted:so I can give unlimited amounts of cash to a politician and that counts as speech. but not giving money to someone is not speech? so the state could theoretically force me to sign a pledge not to boycott the Trump merchandise store, and that would not be a curtailment of my free-speech rights? Maybe I should dig a little bit deeper, there must be some underlying bit of logic I'm missing here. It's part of an employment contract for state contractors. They aren't ruling that boycotting itself is not free speech, they are arguing that it is something they can write into an employment contract for vendors and contractors and it isn't a free speech violation because the state has many other behavior and character clauses built into their contracts.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:12
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:The 8th Circuit ruled against a man who had sued a state saying that forcing him to sign a pledge not to boycott Israel does not violate the 1st Amendment. The particular law here is who cares, it's a toothless pledge. The decision appears bizarre. Conservative judges elsewhere have laughed at these laws so maybe scotus will too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:15
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:The particular law here is who cares, it's a toothless pledge. The decision appears bizarre. Conservative judges elsewhere have laughed at these laws so maybe scotus will too. It matters in demonstrating if the courts rule by logic or gut and if it’s gut, they should be ignored by anyone with a pulse.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
Iowa losing first in the nation status after the cadre of Democratic failures who screwed the pooch on tallying the Dems last caucus results is poetic. Iowa loses millions of dollars in economic activity, and they all got promotions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:I don’t understand this. I thought it was ruled that money is speech. This is inconsistent that there isn’t a logical argument. Um this is the Roberts court, logic and consistency are out the window. The answer is "does this hurt the people with power and money" and if "yes" then it's not protected. ---------------------------------- In other news, FINA(the governing body of swimming) has essentially decided that Lia Thomas worked too hard to be good and thus transgender women can't compete in swimming. https://resources.fina.org/fina/document/2022/06/19/525de003-51f4-47d3-8d5a-716dac5f77c7/FINA-INCLUSION-POLICY-AND-APPENDICES-FINAL-.pdf
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
The GOP can preclude Trump announcing any time it wants, they need simply require any potential candidate to disclose their taxes. Whether or not they do this is the real test of how much leadership doesn't want him in the running. DeSantis is a terrifying prospect because it'd be Youngkin all over again, except nationally this time and as hard times trickle upward into the middle class we're going to get more and more cases of the "ah, time for fascism" switch so many moderates have in their brains in case of threats to property values or gas prices going up, and now we've got a good chunk of them who've just been encouraged for 6+ years to pine for people like Kasich and Dubbya as Sensible and Pragmatic Leadership which they'll slide DeSantis right alongside without any mental effort at all. I'm really hoping for either Trump himself or Trump excluded and now dedicated to being a wrecker. DeeplyConcerned posted:so I can give unlimited amounts of cash to a politician and that counts as speech. but not giving money to someone is not speech? so the state could theoretically force me to sign a pledge not to boycott the Trump merchandise store, and that would not be a curtailment of my free-speech rights? Maybe I should dig a little bit deeper, there must be some underlying bit of logic I'm missing here. Would love to see blue state governments start to force people to pledge to never donate to the GOP so we can get a followup ruling that the previous one only counts when it's in service of right wing causes
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:05
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:The particular law here is who cares, it's a toothless pledge. The decision appears bizarre. Conservative judges elsewhere have laughed at these laws so maybe scotus will too. Those useless pledges also have general bipartisan support outside of fringe Democrats so it has the potential to be an ugly one if the Supreme Court makes a lovely ruling. Hopefully they end up also laughing at it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:38
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:The GOP can preclude Trump announcing any time it wants, they need simply require any potential candidate to disclose their taxes. Whether or not they do this is the real test of how much leadership doesn't want him in the running.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:48
|
|
|
God let’s hope that Iowa being kicked out of first place starts killing corn subsidies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:54
|
|
|
Oracle posted:God let’s hope that Iowa being kicked out of first place starts killing corn subsidies. Why do you think that corn subsidies would be impacted? The corn industry is much, much more than Iowa and a once every 4 years primary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:59
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:As a Floridian I am extremely concerned about a DeSantis run. He's relatively careful about his appearances, but he gives the base all of the red meat they want, between completely absurd laws that get overturned in court (but he gets to brag about passing them) and also playing to right-wing media. He's arguably worse than Trump in terms of policies but much smarter about how he deal with the media. It's concerning because in 2020 Biden basically got elected because the right-leaning suburbs couldn't stand Trump so they voted for Biden. But I don't think that would happen if DeSantis runs. He's definitely going to use the Youngkin playbook of pushing culture war poo poo (which is most of what he does these days), while also dragging the Dems for the economy. He also has a similar cult like and fanatical following, at least in the state of Florida. I see all kinds of flags and stickers worshiping him in similar ways. I like to visit flea markets to save money and, dear god, they're rife with this right wing poo poo. T-shirts, guns, banners, flags, stickers, posters. Rednecks talking poo poo. I feel quite confident saying we're getting either Trump or Desantis in two years but will cede that where I live may not be a barometer for the entire country. I'd consider otherwise if for the fact that we have to run on Joe Biden and all his kick rear end accomplishments. Pretty sure we're going to continue taking hard right hand turns though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 22:59
|
|
|
selec posted:Iowa losing first in the nation status after the cadre of Democratic failures who screwed the pooch on tallying the Dems last caucus results is poetic. The Republicans are going to keep Iowa first in their presidential sequence, while the Democrats are writing off Iowa. This will continue the trend of the Democrats abandoning Midwest states and then being confused that they don' t have a majority in the Senate. https://www.radioiowa.com/2022/04/14/rnc-keeping-iowa-caucuses-first-in-2024/ You also seem to think that what happened with the Iowa Democratic Caucus was an accident.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:01
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:He also has a similar cult like and fanatical following, at least in the state of Florida. I see all kinds of flags and stickers worshiping him in similar ways. I like to visit flea markets to save money and, dear god, they're rife with this right wing poo poo. T-shirts, guns, banners, flags, stickers, posters. Rednecks talking poo poo. I feel quite confident saying we're getting either Trump or Desantis in two years but will cede that where I live may not be a barometer for the entire country.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:02
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:The Republicans are going to keep Iowa first in their presidential sequence, while the Democrats are writing off Iowa. This will continue the trend of the Democrats abandoning Midwest states and then being confused that they don' t have a majority in the Senate. Iowa was abandoned like 10 years ago along with so many others in Rahm's quest to streamline the party to focus on one or two hundred million dollar races for his hand picked, parachuted in former Republican fighter pilots. Its value in being early was that it was reliably conservative which is why it's been kept on at #1 despite the party having zero chances to win it, same as with SC. NV is much better and nobody knows what the gently caress NH is ever gonna do. I think the force behind this is mostly what an utter clownshow the Iowa primaries were and now nobody wants to be associated with all that. For similar but opposite reasons, Iowa makes almost as little sense for the GOP to have as their first, but I think there's a hard cap on how much anybody with a say in the process can really care who goes first at the end of the day.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:07
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I'm skeptical Biden is the nominee in 2024, the way things are going. And I'm not even factoring in the obvious age issue. Who do you think then? To my eyes, we don't have much of a deep bench to draw from. I don't see anyone we can run that would excite anybody and am hard pressed to think of a name.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:26
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:Iowa was abandoned like 10 years ago along with so many others in Rahm's quest to streamline the party to focus on one or two hundred million dollar races for his hand picked, parachuted in former Republican fighter pilots. Its value in being early was that it was reliably conservative which is why it's been kept on at #1 despite the party having zero chances to win it, same as with SC. NV is much better and nobody knows what the gently caress NH is ever gonna do. I think the force behind this is mostly what an utter clownshow the Iowa primaries were and now nobody wants to be associated with all that. That lines up with my recollections. Iowa went from being a state that had back to back Democratic governors to Branstad and then Reynolds, from having a senator from each party to having only Republicans, and being won by Carter, Clinton, and Obama, then being lost by Biden and the shift really seemed to happen during Obama's term. Now Chuck Grassley's opponent is a former admiral who hasn't lived in the state during his entire adult life and will most likely lose this fall.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:28
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:That lines up with my recollections. Iowa went from being a state that had back to back Democratic governors to Branstad and then Reynolds, from having a senator from each party to having only Republicans, and being won by Carter, Clinton, and Obama, then being lost by Biden and the shift really seemed to happen during Obama's term. Indiana is the same, went for Obama in 2008 with a long tradition of Dem governors and Senators and the like. By 2016 it was pretty much dead to the party and now holds the honor of being the first state to vote for Trump two times now. It ain't great! Rahm and Obama really hosed the party at the state level to a degree that will never be acknowledged openly, but is probably (along with 2016) the reason why initially Biden didn't bring any of Obama's people on board. Initially, at least, though he's talking to Summers now. The party loooooves that type of candidate for us degenerate flyover folks. Once he gets blown out by like 45 points he'll have his pick of talk shows to go on as an expert on winning elections in the midwest/plains lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:37
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:That lines up with my recollections. Iowa went from being a state that had back to back Democratic governors to Branstad and then Reynolds, from having a senator from each party to having only Republicans, and being won by Carter, Clinton, and Obama, then being lost by Biden and the shift really seemed to happen during Obama's term. Reminds me of how PA is. One side or the other will run some outside military person or doctor or corpo gently caress. This time it’s oz.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:48
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They didn't apply. God let it be Georgia or Texas. Prolly Georgia given Texas' current existence, otherwise I'd say Texas.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:56
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:Um this is the Roberts court, logic and consistency are out the window. Its really obvious that Dems and their supporters openly embrace fascism with using the Supreme Court and LGBT rights examples: 1) Biden continues to follow the illegitimate courts fascist rulings instead of ignoring / stacking / disbanding them. If he isn’t a fascist, or at least complicit with fascism, he should challenge them to carry out their rulings or eat poo poo. Before folks clutch their pearls at this logical conclusion: if the effective outcome to following the supreme courts rulings is continuing the march to fascism, then logically continuing to support them is to support fascism. 2) The Dems obviously don’t believe in human rights, given their track record with the LGBT community and Hillary’s recent TERF statements. Not believing in human rights is what allows fascism to flourish. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:56
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Who do you think then? To my eyes, we don't have much of a deep bench to draw from. I don't see anyone we can run that would excite anybody and am hard pressed to think of a name. Pritzker is the one that's doing the tours of NE states like New Hampshire and he's quite popular in Illinois.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
I'm confused about what Kuwaiti citizen and President of the international swimming association Husain Al-Musallam's relationship is with the Democratic party and why you think he is writing the party platform.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Does Colorado or Washington have better regional fair food that is disgusting, but people have to pretend to like because locals insist it is actually great? I can't think of anything particularly unique to the washington state fair that is disgusting. If anything, they have a surprising amount of genuinely good food, even if some of it ain't good for you. Like the worst I can think of is maybe seattle fudge (too dry and crumbly) and some of the more generic fair food like candied apples and those comically large carnival pops. It's been over a decade since I last went and I still think about the fair scones. I always came home with at least a dozen just for myself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:02
|
|
|
I don't see how moving the first primary to Michigan from New Hampshire or Iowa is abandoning the Midwest. Hell even new Jersey is technically in the Midwest since Rutgers joined the Big 10
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:09
|
|
|
rscott posted:I don't see how moving the first primary to Michigan from New Hampshire or Iowa is abandoning the Midwest. Hell even new Jersey is technically in the Midwest since Rutgers joined the Big 10 My argument was that the abandonment already happened awhile ago, and that this is something else entirely (the weeklong clusterfuck of a primary Iowa delivered last time and/or there just not being anybody who cares about Iowa's primacy enough to fight for it staying first on the committee)
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:11
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Pritzker is the one that's doing the tours of NE states like New Hampshire and he's quite popular in Illinois.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:23
|
|
|
rscott posted:I don't see how moving the first primary to Michigan from New Hampshire or Iowa is abandoning the Midwest. Hell even new Jersey is technically in the Midwest since Rutgers joined the Big 10 I would call Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania the Rust Belt, and Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Illinois as the Midwest. Apparently the census adds all of them together, but I see a split between them. New Jersey is definitely not the Midwest though. The point is though, once Iowa loses its spot as first in line, and given how Red it has been trending, it will cease to be given any particular attention by Democratic presidential candidates as it will be seen as uncompetitive, and they hate coming here anyway because it's beneath them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:36
|
|
|
Saw this come across my feed and had a few dark chuckles: https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1539714134291382272 https://poll.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06222022_ufha92.pdf Question #2 adds strongly for/against and Biden's at 5% strongly favor with kids, even white dudes are at 11%. Though I'd love a breakdown of the R side of this:  #16 has only even a quarter of evangelicals against abortion for incest/rape babies. #24 About 2/3rds say they haven't learned anything new from the 1/6 Hearings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:37
|
|
|
I am curious about their sample size for age breakdowns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Who do you think then? To my eyes, we don't have much of a deep bench to draw from. I don't see anyone we can run that would excite anybody and am hard pressed to think of a name. The president before last was a black nobody until his dnc speech and the dark horse in the 2008 primary he won. The number two contender in 2016 was an ancient Vermont socialist who'd never run for president before. The number three contender in 2020 was the gay mayor of the fourth largest city in Indiana whose name starts with 'butt'. I am not convinced that a deep bench is vital, nor that "there's not a clear left up and comer in the US media" means there won't be (or perhaps even that there isn't currently one). and that's without getting into Trump tier upsets like President Matthew McConaughey
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 00:48
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:The president before last was a black nobody until his dnc speech and the dark horse in the 2008 primary he won. The number two contender in 2016 was an ancient Vermont socialist who'd never run for president before. The number three contender in 2020 was the gay mayor of the fourth largest city in Indiana whose name starts with 'butt'. I am not convinced that a deep bench is vital, nor that "there's not a clear left up and comer in the US media" means there won't be (or perhaps even that there isn't currently one). Trump himself was also a "nobody" in the political sense. No one would ever have considered him to be on the "GOP bench" before 2015.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
Oh hey, look. Manchin disapproves of the gas tax holiday. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrat-joe-manchin-signals-support-bidens-call-gas/story?id=85558791 quote:"I'm not a yes right now, that's for sure," Manchin said, just hours before Biden was set to speak Wednesday afternoon. He does make a couple good points, like that people won't see the full 18c benefit, and that with the current proposal, it would end just before elections, but God, I wish he'd just loving go away. I find it amusing (in a "you're a real piece is poo poo" way) that in the last paragraph I quoted he states that Congress should really start thinking about the American people, and that WV is being hit really hard right now, when he was the key obstruction (publicly) of getting the American people some real relief.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:11
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:Trump himself was also a "nobody" in the political sense. No one would ever have considered him to be on the "GOP bench" before 2015. He had run for President before, was a presumed front-runner in 1996 before he bowed out, and a pop culture/media figure for 4 decades who spent the last 5 years becoming a Republican celebrity by questioning Obama's birth certificate. Mitt Romney asked for his endorsement and he was invited to speak at the 2012 RNC. He was only a political nobody in the "Ronald Reagan? The actor?!?" sense. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jun 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:12
|
|
|
They should suspend the gas tax just so everyone whining about paying the gas tax will finally shut up and realize how little difference it really makes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
On the one hand, the gas tax is basically the only form of carbon tax that the US has. On the other hand it's a tiny 3% tax, and the money just gets pissed away widening freeways.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:I can't think of anything particularly unique to the washington state fair that is disgusting. If anything, they have a surprising amount of genuinely good food, even if some of it ain't good for you. Like the worst I can think of is maybe seattle fudge (too dry and crumbly) and some of the more generic fair food like candied apples and those comically large carnival pops. Seattle Dogs. They have cream cheese
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
The gas tax holiday is bad policy and it is a good thing that Republicans are cynically opposed to it now because they don't want gas prices to go down and Democrats don't want to lower taxes or defund the federal highway fund. - The last few times it has been done, about 30 to 35% of the benefit was kept by the gas retailers and oil companies. - It would only be about a 14 cents per gallon reduction in retail prices if that trend held. - Congress is too dysfunctional to find a new way to raise money and they will absolutely just let a crisis brew to restore funding at the last second and cause a lot of damage for no reason. If you desperately need the retail price of gas to go as low as possible, regardless of costs or size of the reduction, and don't care about anything else, then it makes sense. Honestly, I doubt Biden even really wants to do it. He was opposed to it in 2011 and this seems like another one of his "try something very visible to show than I am working on it, but I know it won't do anything" political moves, like calling the oil companies in to scold them. There isn't much of anything he can do to single-handedly reduce the global price of oil, short of converting half the world's population to Amish, but he doesn't want to look like he isn't trying or just admit that there is nothing to be done for political reasons. So, they have decided his best option is to have a parade of highly visible actions that don't do anything because they assume it is the least bad option politically. They probably aren't wrong. Jimmy Carter destroyed his presidency by being honest and giving a televised address where he told Americans that there was nothing they could do about oil prices in the short term and they just had to try and manage it the best they could until it passes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 15:49 |
|
|
virtualboyCOLOR posted:I don’t understand this. I thought it was ruled that money is speech. This is inconsistent that there isn’t a logical argument. https://twitter.com/juliabacha/status/1539676949215313921 en banc hearing, ruling written by a trump appointee. i haven't dug into the text of the ruling itself, but this pundit's read is that the ruling is expressly that a boycott is strictly economic and not speech. unlike a campaign contribution
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2022 02:05
|
|
