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flatluigi posted:from earlier posts i think at least a small part of it is that lividliquid thinks that the max caster trump dunk continuing to be in the aew thread ops is a dunk on them specifically and not just a thing that made people laugh once in a sea of things that were also funny once. getting that av bought for them was a lovely move and something they took real personally + seeing a reminder of that i can empathize about it continuing to feel fresh If that's the background radiation feeding this I empathize but yeah I at least always just read that post and go "heh they said young cucks". And the avatar absolutely sucked but we can't go on a witch hunt about it. The whole forum isn't standing by and accepting it, we just can't do much about it and it's gone. I absolutely assume if anyone ever admitted to it they would be bounced.
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Jun 24, 2022 04:09
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Did I so much as mention you? And not even just today, but like, ever? And I don't think people who are rude about wrestling are comparable to racists.
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Jun 24, 2022 05:29
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Gumball Gumption posted:If that's the background radiation feeding this I empathize but yeah I at least always just read that post and go "heh they said young cucks". And the avatar absolutely sucked but we can't go on a witch hunt about it. The whole forum isn't standing by and accepting it, we just can't do much about it and it's gone. I absolutely assume if anyone ever admitted to it they would be bounced. I'll bounce quickly but your last line is true but also the problem that can't be solved - same with whatever monster ruined Rarity's gimmick thing. Because we know someone's here who does that, but we don't know who, there is an element of dog whistling that can be imagined but can also be real. I think that's what LL was saying, albeit more directly and not with a 1 to 1 replacement but of uncomfortableness and unease through ostracisation.
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Jun 24, 2022 05:31
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this place isn't worth arguing against nonsense. do what you want
Cavauro fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 05:38
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LividLiquid posted:I've been running karaoke shows for twenty years, and no matter what one does, somebody's gonna' leave angry. So you make sure it's the right people. The people who get mad that they can't say the N word on stage, people who want to bribe their way to the top of the rotation and flip out when you tell them no, people who treat the staff well, but the other customers like poo poo, people who creep on women... These two paragraphs pretty clearly set up that comparison directly ,and it's a pretty big comparison. And when someone is, that's fine, but for the most part the problems so far seem to have been around 'people can be kind of dicks' and not full rear end bigotry. Like, if you think someone is genuinely being /bigoted/ that's something to talk about- but for the most part it seems like it's just heedlessly, thoughtlessly setting up calling people bigots without saying that.
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Jun 24, 2022 06:10
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I've got to admit, the only times I've walked away from the forum feeling a bit miffed are when someone claims I must be a huge transphobe because of where I'm from or that I must be a racist etc on the back of some innocuous comment I or others have made. For example, I remember when Bad Bunny showed up in WWE and multiple people claimed that they didn't know who he was. Most people didn't know who he was because, like me, they're a bunch of dweebs who don't listen to chart music, and we can have a laugh about that, but one or two people came in insisting that actually we're all racist because Bad Bunny is a Spanish-language musician and we're being dismissive of that and the demand for it. The problem is that if you legit didn't know who he was, you wouldn't know that! Not to mention that, for me living in the UK, there isn't really a dedicated market for Spanish-language music here (someone also claimed that we should know who they were because they performed at the Super Bowl and I don't know the first thing about American football, but that's more funny than annoying). I realise that I'm massively privileged to have that as my biggest grievance but there it is anyway. I also don't want to sound dismissive, but as some people have implied here, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the people spiking the tournament polls and buying the Trump avatar were disgruntled people who were banned or anonymous lurking trolls rather than forum regulars. Obviously I can't prove that but it's my gut feeling/what I hope.
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Jun 24, 2022 09:09
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LividLiquid posted:"Everybody who doesn't like what's becoming of the forum should leave it" is not a good take. When people asked "why don't you assume everyone is engaging in good faith discussion" this post calling me a racist because I disagree with what this poster has to say is a good example of why. Piss off.
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Jun 24, 2022 09:35
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fwiw i remember the bad bunny stuff getting into some rough territory in terms of doubling down on being dismissive of his success because it was "only" in spanish-speaking areas and probably would've asked people to re-evaluate that position if i was feeling punchy at the timeMekchu posted:When people asked "why don't you assume everyone is engaging in good faith discussion" this post calling me a racist because I disagree with what this poster has to say is a good example of why. i don't think the response to lividliquid not singling specific people out in that post should be 'they are calling every single person reading that post racist and bigoted' and i think this is a pretty lovely way to respond to someone who is very clearly saying what they genuinely feel
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Jun 24, 2022 09:54
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flatluigi posted:fwiw i remember the bad bunny stuff getting into some rough territory in terms of doubling down on being dismissive of his success because it was "only" in spanish-speaking areas and probably would've asked people to re-evaluate that position if i was feeling punchy at the time The post was comparing racists/bigots at a bar to ppl in this subforum. which is an absurd comparison and demonstrably untrue in how ppl here act in countless instances.
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Jun 24, 2022 10:03
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flatluigi posted:fwiw i remember the bad bunny stuff getting into some rough territory in terms of doubling down on being dismissive of his success because it was "only" in spanish-speaking areas and probably would've asked people to re-evaluate that position if i was feeling punchy at the time So this isn't an emptyquote... I signed up for an SA forums account years ago specifically for this subforum. With one or two exceptions, I haven't ventured beyond here. Even beyond the usual "yeah, posters on the forums of a once-edgelord comedy site can be jerks" expectations, I'd felt an uptick in general user hostility, especially in the AEW thread, and especially when, as been noted, there was even the gentles of pushbacks or critique of AEW in the AEW threads. I'd pop in occasionally, see things might be calming down and then no-- weird hostility again. I saw what went down with lividliquid, and the responses thereafter and noped out again but that was just the lltest in a long string of things. I have enough hostility in the background radiation of my life; I don't really want to face that when talking about who I wanna see Chuck Taylor make faces at alongside Orange Cassidy or something, or like, worry about how much of a fire ant hill I might accidentally step on by giving my opinion on The Acclaimed or something. Sometimes, if it's a singular person making the same type of joke or remark a bunch, if you have the energy and time to drop them a DM explaining why it upsets you, you might find they'll be empathetic and listen to you. Or they might tell you to kiss off (I've experienced the former here, the latter behavior elsewhere). But when it becomes a hangout or forum with many people doing something offputting, you can't really PM each individual person and hope that change happens-- not only is it a lot of conversational threads to juggle (to badly mix a metaphor) , and the hope of for other folks to speak up and see if there can be a change at the group level. Sometimes you can be cooler and level-headed and sometimes it's going to mix with a bunch of other long-simmering frustrations and come out more explosively. But a common motivation people speaking up about stuff that upsets them have is that they don't want to "just leave" they want to help a forum or community or whatever be better. What LL is getting at is that any decent hangout, wether it's a forum or karaoke night, cultivates the atmosphere it keeps and keeps the atmosphere it cultvates, using a number of different examples of boorish behavior. If you don't think that "people who want to sing the n word" and "people that try to bribe the mc to jump ahead in the song wait line" are being directly compared as exactly the same thing, then I'm pretty sure you can see the shared thing is boorish behavior, not racism. Otherwise that's like someone saying "oh and your conclusion makin is piss-poor" and responding with "how dare you say I piss on the poor!" As mentioned elsewhere, there aren't that many wider GOOD discussion forums for pro wrestling around anymore. This place is a cool place for talking about all sorts of stuff regarding pro wrestling and combat sports, but with the occasional broken stair. Okay, this is the third time the site has kicked up an error while posting this, so if there are duplicate copies, apologies. SirDippingSauce fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 10:21
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SirDippingSauce posted:What LL is getting at is that any decent hangout, wether it's a forum or karaoke night, cultivates the atmosphere it keeps and keeps the atmosphere it cultvates Thank you for more eloquently saying what I have wasted a lot of words failing to communicate and what I was about to try and do again before you did better. If nothing else everyone can probably agree to be grateful that it’s one less post from me.
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Jun 24, 2022 10:35
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yeah that's a very good post SDS and i think you should post more in general
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Jun 24, 2022 10:48
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edit: wrong thread for all my fans waiting for me to chime in, that's all i got bebaloorpabopalo fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 11:10
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E: never mind I’m out of here!!!!
Quantum of Phallus fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 11:52
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IGgy IGsen posted:Did you know that by simply clicking on the thread title header Yo, this is a loving revelation. I had absolutely no idea such a feature existed. Thank you for posting it. I'm old & stuck in my ways & as I have always browsed forums by going onto a sub-forum & looking at the index for the stuff I'm interested in rather than bookmarking threads, that's how I still do it. Change is scary even if it is more efficient. Besides, maybe it means missing a fun new thread. Or an exciting new development in another thread. Etc Just want to agree that bare minimum there needs to be another mod for the wrestling side of the sub because Junpei just isn't doing it. Probably there should also be an IK for the AEW threads in particular as they are by far the most active & by that nature the most chaotic, but I suppose good luck finding someone who satisfies "both sides" (an oversimplification but my toast just popped). Also posters absolutely need to accept the mindset that a 6 hour probe is not even worth rolling your eyes at. It's nothing. Even 24 hours isn't worth getting worked up over regardless of whether you think the justification is bullshit. That's just part of the charms of SA at the end of the day. I'd like to think there's a place for both people who take wrestling too seriously & people who enjoy wrestling but like to have a goof from time to time. Or all the time for that matter.
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Jun 24, 2022 13:29
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STAC Goat posted:Thank you for more eloquently saying what I have wasted a lot of words failing to communicate and what I was about to try and do again before you did better. I get this, I just think it's coming from someone whose own behavior would get them kicked out of a karaoke show if they did it there. No karaoke show would let you take a couple minutes at the top to tell everyone how the last guy sang a Lynyrd Skynyrd song and that reminds you a whole lot of Trump. That guy would probably even think you're saying he loves Trump.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:09
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I think even when you read the post entirely in good faith when it comes to the racism aspect, it’s still a call to arms to drive out all the posters you deem to not fit the posting-culture you want to cultivate.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:19
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NienNunb posted:I think even when you read the post entirely in good faith when it comes to the racism aspect, it’s still a call to arms to drive out all the posters you deem to not fit the posting-culture you want to cultivate. To me SA is like a public park and posting enemies is like deciding you need to kick the people with the stereo and the little grill out of the park because they're getting in the way of you peacefully sunning. Sorry, you all need to use the park together.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:29
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What about the people who come into the park almost exclusively to tell you that you’re behaving like a bigoted racist, no they aren’t saying you’re a bigoted racist you’re just like a bigoted racist, why are you getting so mad this is exactly what they’re talking about they’re never coming to this park again.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:34
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NienNunb posted:I think even when you read the post entirely in good faith when it comes to the racism aspect, it’s still a call to arms to drive out all the posters you deem to not fit the posting-culture you want to cultivate. Well, sure. So is saying that you’re going to make posts you think are funny no matter what. We’re all arguing for the posting culture we want; the idea that a forum can be completely inclusive is bullshit.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:43
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LividLiquid posted:Did I so much as mention you? So why make the comparison? Just to push people's buttons?
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Jun 24, 2022 14:55
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this place isn't worth arguing against nonsense. do what you want
Cavauro fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 17:07
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To the extent I can add anything to this discussion, I think I can add the following: I'm definitely trying to dial back the snark when I get pushback on a critical post, recognising that it's likely to just stoke the flames even if in the instant it makes me feel a little better and I definitely apologise to anyone I may have hurt inadvertently on those occasions when I have or do fail to. And that yes, the 'we've moved on' and claims that you must not have watched the show because you missed a quick bit of commentary or feel the crowd reaction is lukewarm (just to elaborate slightly on that one: it often feels just as strange to see the thread talk about how hot the crowd is when the sound I'm hearing is pretty mild at best) posts may well be meant in good faith but they 100% contribute to the sense that any post or opinion deviating from the consensus is not wanted. Doubly so if attempts to actually have a real discussion about sincere criticism is also subsequently dunked on. But broadly: Aye Doc posted:someone kind of hit on this already, and I don't follow the AEW threads much anymore so maybe these observations are Outdated, but - the way I view the thread is, if I have an opinion that diverges from the thread consensus, I am better off not posting it all and seeing no discussion happen about it, rather than posting it and seeing the actual standoffish dumb-assed comments that will follow. now me, all I ever posted is about how cool Orange Cassidy was, but basically every time I saw an "unknown poster" come in and post what seemed like some honest thoughts that were not aligned with the AEW consensus, they would get some heavy pushback and regardless of if it was direct or not, the implication definitely always feels like "gtfo with your disagreements, this thread is for unity." the AEW thread is not for me, and for me that is okay, so I don't post there or read it. but there seem to be some people who would like the AEW thread to be for them even though it currently is not and folks, I am here to tell you - it's not happening; go find somewhere else to post about AEW. this place is not going to change. kind of sums up the vibe that certain threads have here, at least for me. Rarity posted:Been trying to figure out how to say this, it's still not great but here's my thoughts on this: And this is probably the best take on the overall situation, including the part noting that both sides have some issues. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 01:35
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Yeah, Rarity’s post was really an excellent breakdown that I hope is better received because she’s such a well respected member of the community. I just couldn’t say that because of my all consuming hatred of The Acclaimed.
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Jun 25, 2022 01:45
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, Rarity’s post was really an excellent breakdown that I hope is better received because she’s such a well respected member of the community. That's ok! They're much better as the Assclaimed anyway!
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Jun 25, 2022 01:47
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Gaz-L posted:(just to elaborate slightly on that one: it often feels just as strange to see the thread talk about how hot the crowd is when the sound I'm hearing is pretty mild at best) I've watched on TNT, watched on Fite, downloaded the Fite version, and downloaded the TNT version. Sometimes I've done more than one of those things for one episode because the sound seemed hosed in one format, so I switched. I've heard people mention that the TNT or that the Fite sound wasn't that good at times. I don't want to be all AEW DEFENSE SQUAD UNITE, but I think that the crowd sounding dead may sometimes be partially related to which version a person watched. (Sometimes the crowd is just dead.)
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Jun 25, 2022 05:46
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AEWs audio in generell is bad. It's better than it's been when the show started but still very flawed. The crowd is almost never actually dead but I'd definitely mix it louder in general. If that is the source of the "crowd's dead" posts then I'm sorry for mocking them but I'm only evee did it when the crowd clearly was not dead.
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Jun 25, 2022 09:24
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I've got to admit, the only times I've walked away from the forum feeling a bit miffed are when someone claims I must be a huge transphobe because of where I'm from or that I must be a racist etc on the back of some innocuous comment I or others have made. I remember the Bad Bunny incident myself, and specifically recall the inferences of racism over it. It was really embarrassing. It was this forum at its very worst - posters actively magicking up ists and isms to try and get one over on others. Sorry to ape right wing talking points, but it’s proper looking to be offended stuff. I don’t post often in the threads being discussed so likely my opinion isn’t as important but all I can really suggest is using the ignore function more. I don’t like the posting style of some of the gimmick posters here so, boom, I can breeze past their contributions and read the thread I’m in. Easy.
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Jun 27, 2022 05:13
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I legit did not know who Bad Bunny was because I do not live in the states and I appreciate this forum for explaining him to me, an idiot
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Jun 27, 2022 07:37
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Ad by Khad posted:I legit did not know who Bad Bunny was because I do not live in the states and I appreciate this forum for explaining him to me, an idiot Same. I had honestly never heard of him prior to his WM appearance.
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Jun 27, 2022 07:47
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i knew who he was but i way prefer daddy yankee
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Jun 27, 2022 09:22
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Who's Bad Bunny and why am I a racist for not knowing that?
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Jun 27, 2022 12:06
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I just don't listen to a lot of music so I'd never heard of him.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:12
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I genuinely thought it was just some continuation of the Adam Rose bunny gimmick that they brought back because 
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Jun 27, 2022 13:21
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IGgy IGsen posted:Who's Bad Bunny and why am I a racist for not knowing that? Bad Bunny is a Puerto Rican rapper and pop star. He is one of the top selling artists in that genre, but is probably not as well known if you not a fan of mainstream pop or Latin music in general. WWE used him in a Wrestlemania match (which was surprisingly on the ball culturally for WWE) with the Miz and Damian Priest, where he performed very well for a celebrity novelty match.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:37
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I looked up his numbers on Spotify after the fact and was blown away by the plays he gets. Fair play. I, however, am a white bloke in his mid-30s who still has not got over Alan Wilder leaving Depeche Mode. To each their own.
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Jun 27, 2022 14:02
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britishbornandbread posted:I looked up his numbers on Spotify after the fact and was blown away by the plays he gets. Fair play. I, however, am a white bloke in his mid-30s who still has not got over Alan Wilder leaving Depeche Mode. To each their own. Don't get me started, fellow D*M fan. What was really impressive about Bad Bunny was that he took three entire months off from his music career and moved to Orlando to train full time at the Performance Center. He worked right alongside the NXT and even main roster guys, training with Norman Smiley and other coaches. Randy Orton said live on a WWE web show that after seeing how he trained and devoted himself to his match, he considered Bunny a straight-up WWE wrestler, not just some celebrity coming in for a match. Hell, Undertaker tweeted out his approval, too.
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Jun 27, 2022 14:14
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Yeah, it was pretty impressive in modern WWE that they brought in someone who is actually culturally relevant to young people and mainstream pop culture, and that he was committed enough to learn how to perform well in the match. I wasn’t really familiar with him before beyond having heard the name, but it was really well done
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Jun 27, 2022 14:28
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Yeah I assume the dude was a legit fan who really wanted to look good in there as opposed to just collecting a paycheck
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Jun 27, 2022 14:33
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there was also the florida georgia line incident that a lot of people got upset about when I tried to explain that sure they're lovely pop country and you may not know who they are (and that's fine!) but they're also huge and have broken records with album sales in their genre lol I didn't get offended though because I don't give a poo poo if someone wants to bury their head in the sand, that's on them. I ask questions here quite often and there are a handful of genuinely awesome people that never get impatient and will answer with really helpful context and information and I salute them
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