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Soylent Pudding posted:There's another angle on Twitter that makes it a bit more clear the missile did a sideways horseshoe as opposed to a full 180. A much more understandable image for me at least. 
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Jun 24, 2022 16:35
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According to the Washington Post, Ukraine is short on ammo in part because the Russian military intelligence agency has been buying back or blowing up foreign stocks of ammo in Soviet calibres. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/24/ukraine-ammunition-russian-sabotage-artillery/ Washington Post posted:KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine is running out of shells for the majority of its artillery in part because of a clandestine Russian campaign of bullying and sabotage over the past eight years, including bombings of key munitions depots across Eastern Europe that officials have linked to Moscow, according to Ukrainian government officials and military analysts.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:27
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I heard they could use some overtime on the General Dynamics production line.
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Jun 24, 2022 18:25
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Just Another Lurker posted:A much more understandable image for me at least. This seems like a possibly good analysis of the event. Seems to match what I see reasonably well. 
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Jun 24, 2022 18:54
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Alan Smithee posted:you don't put caviar on a slice of bread you actually do
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Jun 24, 2022 20:22
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A.o.D. posted:I heard they could use some overtime on the General Dynamics production line. Ammo machine goes brrrrr
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Jun 24, 2022 20:23
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Marshal Prolapse posted:Ammo machine goes brrrrr It would be very Cold War/Contact "we built a second alien machine in secret lol" if it turned out we had a stateside production line for Soviet cannon ammunition. Either for CIA poo poo or wargames or something.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:33
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Reminds me of this old, but impressive video of a Saudi Patriot launch gone awry https://twitter.com/Erdayastronaut/status/1183154360341192711?s=20&t=eC28eZFxPpHt0aY5RDjhfA
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Jun 24, 2022 20:35
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How hard can it be to make new dies 10mm different one way or the other? Seems like even at MIC prices a "make the exact same ammo you were making, but like a quarter inch bigger...or smaller" is a weeks-long and a few odd million dollar process, rather than months or years or real money. Does anybody know different?
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Jun 24, 2022 21:21
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Arrath posted:It would be very Cold War/Contact "we built a second alien machine in secret lol" if it turned out we had a stateside production line for Soviet cannon ammunition. Either for CIA poo poo or wargames or something. That would be amazing and I do think we have manufactured some parts for maintaining MiGs and other stuff that we have.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:22
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Slo-Tek posted:How hard can it be to make new dies 10mm different one way or the other? Seems like even at MIC prices a "make the exact same ammo you were making, but like a quarter inch bigger...or smaller" is a weeks-long and a few odd million dollar process, rather than months or years or real money. Does anybody know different? lol. dies are the hardest thing.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:27
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LRADIKAL posted:lol. dies are the hardest thing. It is unclear what information you are imparting here. Are you suggesting LOL that in fact ROFL the dies are the hard part. Or LMAO there is some other part of the process that *slaps knee* is the tricky bit, which is what I asked.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:31
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hypnophant posted:Video is deceiving. What it looks like to me is, the camera is at 10 or 11 o'clock relative to the missile's travel; that is, the missile is approaching the camera at an angle, rather than traveling perpendicular across its field of view. The missile then suffers a failure that causes it to deflect down and to the left from its original travel, eventually impacting the ground somewhere between the point of origin and the camera. The failure could be a guidance failure but I assume a mechanical failure of one of the fins or something is also a possibility. CainFortea posted:It was going away from the launcher at all times until it impacted the ground. The thing you are saying it did, it did not do. From the missile's perspective, it was going up at an incline, then went down and to the left. Still traveling forward. Soylent Pudding posted:There's another angle on Twitter that makes it a bit more clear the missile did a sideways horseshoe as opposed to a full 180. Ahh, I see what you're saying, but that's not what I said. The tracking radar (the emitter) for a radar-guided SAM system is typically not collocated with the actual launcher unless its a fully self-contained SHORAD system like the SA-19. The tracking radar would be on a separate vehicle set up near the launcher. The "horseshoe" in that video brings it back well close enough to have been tracking the emitter, I didn't mean it literally returned to origin. It could have been bad luck though, just seemed pretty crazy and I was speculating. Could have just said the perspective was playing tricks with making it look like a 180 instead of just being "you're wrong" and making me play guessing games. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 21:38
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Slo-Tek posted:How hard can it be to make new dies 10mm different one way or the other? Seems like even at MIC prices a "make the exact same ammo you were making, but like a quarter inch bigger...or smaller" is a weeks-long and a few odd million dollar process, rather than months or years or real money. Does anybody know different? Without going into it a huge amount, very. Very. Similar to how tool steel is the most difficult to make and most critical part of the whole operation, the dies are not just precision gear but also need to be durable to an insane degree.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:41
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ChubbyChecker posted:you actually do I will absolutely not stand here and let a blin be referred to as just "a slice of bread"
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Jun 24, 2022 21:43
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Without going into it a huge amount, very. Very. Similar to how tool steel is the most difficult to make and most critical part of the whole operation, the dies are not just precision gear but also need to be durable to an insane degree. Plus the QA/QC after retooling entire lines, because, y'know, tolerances for bang bang things are a lot less forgiving when you get em wrong.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:46
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Without going into it a huge amount, very. Very. Similar to how tool steel is the most difficult to make and most critical part of the whole operation, the dies are not just precision gear but also need to be durable to an insane degree. Yeah artillery shells are one of those things I really don’t want to that kind of half rear end it with.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:46
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Soul Dentist posted:I will absolutely not stand here and let a blin be referred to as just "a slice of bread" yeah, you can eat them on blinis too, but slices of bread are also a good choice
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Jun 24, 2022 21:55
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Make the shells oversize with a soft lead casing and let them I am a military genius. Neophyte fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 22:15
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Actually, there is a little give with the production of artillery shells. The steel case of the shell doesn't interface with the bore of the artillery tube. There's a forcing ring typically made of brass that actually contacts the rifling of the barrel. While there does need to be a good deal of precision, the most precisely machined part should be that ring, and brass is relatively forgiving when it comes to the hardness of the machine tools you need to manufacture it. edit: Driving band, not forcing ring. Sorry. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 22:19
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Jarmak posted:The "horseshoe" in that video brings it back well close enough to have been tracking the emitter, I didn't mean it literally returned to origin. A relatively easy way for this to occur is for the computer to calculate the shortest achievable intercept path to a target and to decide that intercept point is underground or behind itself such that the shortest interceptor turn path takes it underground. Don’t know if that happened here, but it can be a thing. Some SAMs will instead abort intercept and self-destruct up in the air if this occurs.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:20
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The driving band, not to be confused with the marching band
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Jun 24, 2022 22:21
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Are there any US companies that make 7.62x39 and/or 5.45x39? If so, I see an investment opportunity.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:32
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Ukraine is pulling out of Severedonetsk, leaving Russia to rule over another smoking crater. ISW's stating that the city itself has limited strategic value and Russia just spent the better part of a month burning through manpower and equipment taking it. It does seem like its come at the expense of their other efforts (Kherson/Zhaporizhiya, Kharkiv, and Izyum), but I've also gotta imagine Ukraine lost quite heavily defending it as well.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:38
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I’m just gonna say we should give them the greenlight to hit poo poo across the border, not Moscow or say anything there’s a strategic weapon. I don’t think even have to go that far in deep to screw Russia’s logistics tremendously.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:42
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we'll give them m16/m4s before we start up serious production of 5.45
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Jun 24, 2022 22:45
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Jimmy Smuts posted:Are there any US companies that make 7.62x39 and/or 5.45x39? If so, I see an investment opportunity. There's a couple I know of, dunno if they are shipping to Ukraine. Winchester is one of them.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:57
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Without going into it a huge amount, very. Very. Similar to how tool steel is the most difficult to make and most critical part of the whole operation, the dies are not just precision gear but also need to be durable to an insane degree. Also an enormous amount of shimming as the punches wear and trial-and-error to dial in how big the steps between each progressive die can be every time you get a new furnace heat of raw material from the steel mill. Doesn't matter how tight your chemistry specs are, every new lot number of stock hits different. Deep cup drawing is a pain in the rear end, I can't even imagine how much more complexity is added having to also swage the top almost closed while leaving enough material to thread for a fuse.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:00
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Russia had literal foreign agents in the NRA lol
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Jun 24, 2022 23:02
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like we're just making little 40mm x 40mm bucket tappets for car engines and even that takes a 12-station progressive press with 12 different sets of dies to make one piece and it's almost as big as my house
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Jun 24, 2022 23:05
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Just put each tappet on a lathe and mill down to bullet shape duh
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Jun 24, 2022 23:07
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*showing up with a microwave size 3d printer* how about we just 3d print them???
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Jun 24, 2022 23:12
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shame on an IGA posted:like we're just making little 40mm x 40mm bucket tappets for car engines and even that takes a 12-station progressive press with 12 different sets of dies to make one piece and it's almost as big as my house edit: I'm talking your run of the mill shoot it go boom type. edit: As an example of how simple the dumb M795 is to manufacture, they have a per unit cost of 330 dollars. That's 103 pounds of machined steel, brass, and high explosive (fuse and propellant charge not included). That's loving cheap. You're not getting a lot of high precision machining for that price. You're probably not going to 3D print them, but you can probably CNC them if needed. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 23:22
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PookBear posted:we'll give them m16/m4s before we start up serious production of 5.45 And then there's the possible reliability issues of ARs that could pop up during sieges. All the ARs I've used including mine can be finicky, while all the AKs I've used, including mine & one in Afghanistan made in '72 that was so beat to poo poo that it only fired full-auto, never jammed.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:33
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I never had an issue with any M-16a2 I was ever issued. M249s are another story.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:39
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Raged posted:I never had an issue with any M-16a2 I was ever issued. M249s are another story. The only M16 I've ever had that EVER gave me trouble was the completely clapped out A1 we were issued in Basic that we discarded right when we started BRM.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:40
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ok wow yeah one of the yugoslavian casing factories gave a tour and it's primitive as gently caress https://youtu.be/akAQ5s4-Tp0 e: maybe not that bad there's some part handling automation later on but manual feed into the hot press is a shocker the way you'd do this for high volume is put a fuckoff huge induction heater just before the press tooling so you could heat, forge, and shear off in one step, advance the bar, repeat. No handling and everything goes in and comes out oriented the same way for the convenience of your robots shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 00:17
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Also under the conditions of both war and supplying a 3rd party you can skip compliance to MIL-STD-420/STANAG-69, which isn't cheap, let me tell you.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:20
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A.o.D. posted:Actually, there is a little give with the production of artillery shells. The steel case of the shell doesn't interface with the bore of the artillery tube. There's a forcing ring typically made of brass that actually contacts the rifling of the barrel. While there does need to be a good deal of precision, the most precisely machined part should be that ring, and brass is relatively forgiving when it comes to the hardness of the machine tools you need to manufacture it. Obturating band. Not to be confused with the ogive.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:33
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shame on an IGA posted:ok wow yeah one of the yugoslavian casing factories gave a tour and it's primitive as gently caress Popped in from the worst hotdog thread where they are talking about calamari and pig anus and read this and I thought I had clicked back in
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Jun 25, 2022 00:42
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