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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:January 22, 2022 for the John Lewis Voting Rights Act (failed 49 - 51) and September 30th, 2021 on a rules committee motion (failed 48 - 52). In other words, they never voting on ending the filibuster Rigel posted:HR1, January 2022 A one-time carveout isn't the same thing as ending the filibuster. You claimed this exact poo poo in the last thread and got corrected and you're still repeating it and it's still wrong
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Jun 24, 2022 23:38
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:In other words, they never voting on ending the filibuster Do you mean they never successfully ended it? They specifically voted to end it for federal voting legislation in January 2022 and they voted to end it generally in September 2021.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:40
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Willa Rogers posted:So while yes, a majority of voters support legal abortion, a majority of voters don't support it unconditionally, and only slightly more than one out of every three voters is making it a litmus test at the polls. All important to remember, but still (and I think you'll agree), that serves to underline what an incredibly low bar the Dems have to clear on this: protect any abortion rights on a national level, at all. And they can't even promise to fight for that paltry goal.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:41
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:A one-time carveout isn't the same thing as ending the filibuster. You claimed this exact poo poo in the last thread and got corrected and you're still repeating it and it's still wrong OK, so? Why does that matter? Carving out votes for filibustered bills that really matter is not a meaningful difference.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Do you mean they never successfully ended it? Voting for a carveout isn't the same thing as voting to end it and it's dishonest to claim it is. You'll have to link me to the September vote because I'm looking at senate.gov right now and the only 48-50 vote that entire month I can find was a cloture vote Rigel posted:OK, so? Why does that matter? Carving out votes for filibustered bills that really matter is not a meaningful difference. Because making a single exception in one specific circumstance in a doomed vote isn't reflective of opposition to the filibuster as a whole? Especially given the bill in question was one whose purpose was to give Democrat congresspeople more job security? TheIncredulousHulk fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 23:44
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It's stunning that our country is doing a Gilead speedrun and goons can't trip over themselves fast enough to acckkshhually each other to death. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 24, 2022 23:51
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:it's dishonest to claim it is. Not really, outside of Senate parliamentary rule nerds. Its OK to shorthand it, and then clarify if someone asks. Everyone pretty much understands that the filibuster would not last much longer after exceptions start being made for specific non-budget legislation on the basis of "just because we really want to pass this bill, thats why" which is why Manchin and Sinema wouldn't vote for a carve out for HR1 even though they supported the bill.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:51
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Willa Rogers posted:Probably the most depressing stat according to the same recent Gallup poll is that a majority of voters don't support bodily autonomy even in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy if the woman decides she doesn't want the child for any reason: Some of those stats are depressing... I'd be curious what the results would be if they threw in like a really crazy question, like... if the mother would die with 100% certainty.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:53
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BonoMan posted:It's stunning that our country is doing a Gilead speedrun and goons can't trip over themselves fast enough to acckkshhually each other to death. Are you addressing a particular post with this response? Astro7x posted:Some of those stats are depressing... I'd be curious what the results would be if they threw in like a really crazy question, like... if the mother would die with 100% certainty. I think it's somewhat understandable given the public squirming & squishiness on the issue by elected Democrats. When two members of the House leadership (including the Speaker Herself) publicly campaign & fundraise on behalf of an anti-choice House colleague, it's hard to take seriously their fundraising rhetoric on bodily autonomy. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 23:53
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Willa Rogers posted:Are you addressing a particular post with this response? A whole host... But primarily all the gotcha bullshit with the filibuster ending stuff. But I'm phone posting and will follow up when I get inside
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Jun 24, 2022 23:55
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https://twitter.com/GravelInstitute/status/1540347369111392256 The first instinct of Pelosi is to send out fundraiser emails asking for $15. They can't keep pulling this schtick forever and expect people to 
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Jun 24, 2022 23:56
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I don’t follow joe biden and I think this was sent Twitter wide? https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1540468564402094080?s=21&t=d6WekK3WDVb7PvoH3397Hw Edit: never mind, I was following him.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:59
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Such an extreme injustice, and the only thing they have to show for it is demanding votes and donations without doing loving anything. We have a democratic president. He is useless. The grift just never ends. FizFashizzle posted:I don’t follow joe biden and I think this was sent Twitter wide? Joe. You are the loving president. Do something now, not in the fall. loving worthless husk of a president.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:00
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Rigel posted:HR1, January 2022 Thank you. Couldn’t they use the nuclear option?
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Jun 25, 2022 00:00
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Framboise posted:Such an extreme injustice, and the only thing they have to show for it is demanding votes and donations without doing loving anything. We have a democratic president. He is useless. What do you want them to do that they are not doing now?
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Jun 25, 2022 00:01
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theCalamity posted:Thank you. Any adjustment to the filibuster rules at all requires the nuclear option. The parliamentarian is going to say you can't vote on that election reform bill just because you really want to, and then the senate votes either "you are wrong, from now on yes we can vote for election reform bills" or "oops, you are right, sorry".
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Jun 25, 2022 00:03
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Rigel posted:What do you want them to do that they are not doing now? Deploy the Army Corps of Engineers to set up abortion clinics, ring them with Paratroopers, tell Clarence Thomas to try to stop him.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:03
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What is Biden saying he'll do if the midterms turn out well for the Democrats? Not what people say he could possibly do, but what is he saying that he will do? Explicitly?
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Jun 25, 2022 00:05
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My vote for biden in 2020 was the last time I'll ever vote in this country again. I knew it was a bad vote then but it was quite literally him or Trump. Gave democrats total control of the government. And all they've done is sit on their hands while states fast track us to fascism. Democrats won't act so there is literally no point whatsoever to me voting. I feel sad about all the trans/LGBT kids who are going to be absolutely destroyed by this. Since all those protections are going to be next. I know we won't see gay marriage legal again in my lifetime, which is just exhausting. While I'm personally safe where I am I know a lot of young trans kids who are just going to have utterly miserable lives for a long long time.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:06
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Rigel posted:Not really, outside of Senate parliamentary rule nerds. Its OK to shorthand it, and then clarify if someone asks. "Everyone pretty much understands" isn't fact, it's slippery slope poo poo you are just making up in your own head and pretending it is true. They've done carveouts plenty of times before and the filibuster is doing just fine. You're just saying poo poo that is factually false and then shrugging it off because of your feelings
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Jun 25, 2022 00:06
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Rigel posted:What do you want them to do that they are not doing now? Well, Biden could say that if the Dems expand their majority in November, they will pass a new Freedom of Choice Act that protects reproductive rights, and unlike Obama, he will sign it into law the second it passes. That would be a good start.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:08
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Majorian posted:Well, Biden could say that if the Dems expand their majority in November, they will pass a new Freedom of Choice Act that protects reproductive rights, and unlike Obama, he will sign it into law the second it passes. That would be a good start. https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1540379614517903360
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Jun 25, 2022 00:09
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Great. Now he needs to keep saying that, in more forms than just a one-off tweet. So does the rest of the Democratic Party. We'll see if they do it. e: It's also telling that "we" in this instance refers to Democratic voters. Not Democrats in power. It's not, "I promise that we WILL do this thing if you vote for us." It's, "Vote hard enough and maybe we'll vaguely protect abortion rights." Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 00:11
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oh, vague implications
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Jun 25, 2022 00:12
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Rigel posted:What do you want them to do that they are not doing now? Have a plan for fixing the federal government. Stuff like expanding or otherwise reforming SCOTUS; term limits; DC/PR/Guam statehood; ranked choice voting. Put together coalitions of specific named senators and candidates that support each of those, so we know what is actually on the table vs fantasy. Direct his enforcement agencies to hold domestic terrorist leaders accountable. Not this: https://twitter.com/jd_durkin/status/1540452282130636800
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Jun 25, 2022 00:13
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Very well timed, the NAF released it's study on violence at abortion clinics today. From 2020 to 2021, we have 600 percent increase of in-person stalking incidents across its U.S. clinics 450 percent increase in physical blockades 163 percent increase in hoax devices and suspicious packages 129 percent in clinic invasions 128 percent increase in assault and battery of staff
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Jun 25, 2022 00:14
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FistEnergy posted:The Democrats are not a vehicle for positive change, they're an obstacle just like the Republicans. The veneer of decorum and promised incremental change has gotten so thin that it's translucent. A song and now a poem. Republicans are burning the country down and the Dems are holding a talent show. Someone get Chuck Schumer out here with a unicycle.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:14
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Majorian posted:Well, Biden could say that if the Dems expand their majority in November, they will pass a new Freedom of Choice Act that protects reproductive rights, and unlike Obama, he will sign it into law the second it passes. That would be a good start. The Dems have had 50 years to do this. It’s too late now. We voted time and time again. What on earth makes you think this time would be any different?
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Jun 25, 2022 00:16
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ColdPie posted:Have a plan for fixing the federal government. Stuff like expanding or otherwise reforming SCOTUS; term limits; DC/PR/Guam statehood; ranked choice voting. Put together coalitions of specific named senators and candidates that support each of those, so we know what is actually on the table vs fantasy. Direct his enforcement agencies to hold domestic terrorist leaders accountable. Legislative term limits are unconstitutional. Ranked choice voting is done at the state level. A few states already have it. The other stuff is doable, though.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:16
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FlapYoJacks posted:The Dems have had 50 years to do this. It’s too late now. We voted time and time again. What on earth makes you think this time would be any different? Yes, that is precisely what I'm saying. I do not believe they are going to behave any differently going forward. \/\/\/yeah I know the feeling\/\/\/
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Jun 25, 2022 00:17
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Majorian posted:Yes, that is precisely what I'm saying. I do not believe they are going to behave any differently going forward. I misread your post. Sorry about that. It’s been a lovely day.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:18
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Joe Biden was part of the administration that said this previously, had the votes, and still didn't do it. Why should voters believe him now?
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Jun 25, 2022 00:18
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Always wondered how a group of people as stone stupid as Conservatives could ever be successful. Abortion has been legal for the last 50 years with Democrats as the sole elected political bulwark against a vicious Conservative movement that has meticulously and tirelessly worked every angle in the system to overturn it. Today they finally did. [Some] People's takeaway? Clearly the Democrats don't care about women's right to choose and also the system doesn't work. That this country has managed to last as long as it has is a true credit to random chance.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:18
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-Blackadder- posted:[Some] People's takeaway? Clearly the Democrats don't care about women's right to choose and also the system doesn't work. How is either statement the wrong takeaway? e: \/\/\/ TheIncredulousHulk posted:Tbf the system absolutely does work. The system we're living in is working incredibly well today. It's just not actually a system for things like enacting popular opinion or protecting human rights, unfortunately Yeah, I agree, that's a better way of putting it. Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 00:20
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-Blackadder- posted:[Some] People's takeaway? Clearly the Democrats don't care about women's right to choose and also the system doesn't work. Perhaps in the 20+ times the democrats have had a majority or supermajority in the executive branches, they could have codified abortion into federal law? They didn’t, this is why it’s clear they don’t really care about woman’s rights to choose. It’s all a fundraising scam.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:20
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-Blackadder- posted:Always wondered how a group of people as stone stupid as Conservatives could ever be successful. I'll give you a hint, it's because they're not stupid. Assuming that they are is the worst mistake anyone left of center could make.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:21
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Rigel posted:Any adjustment to the filibuster rules at all requires the nuclear option. The parliamentarian is going to say you can't vote on that election reform bill just because you really want to, and then the senate votes either "you are wrong, from now on yes we can vote for election reform bills" or "oops, you are right, sorry". Not all of the changes requires the nuclear option. The nuclear option is just taking advantage of a loop hole in the rules. They could vote on an actual rules change instead of doing it for each bill they want to pass and establish precedent. But thank you for the links. However, I still maintain that they are still doing nothing. Effectively, materially, they are doing nothing. Their only solution to this is to simply vote harder and that’s not going to work. Also, kind of a frustrating little side note: it was two Democrats who came up with the two-track system that gave the minority more power to block legislation. Ironically, it was created so that the senate could still conduct business in the event of a filibuster. theCalamity fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 00:21
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People need to stop voting for Democrats. The party has shown itself to be completely unwilling to solve problems or deliver what the voters want. We need to pull all support, let the party collapse. Something new being born from the ashes or a new party arising to take its place is the only chance of getting people in government who actually give a poo poo about us.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:24
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Gripweed posted:People need to stop voting for Democrats. The party has shown itself to be completely unwilling to solve problems or deliver what the voters want. We need to pull all support, let the party collapse. Something new being born from the ashes or a new party arising to take its place is the only chance of getting people in government who actually give a poo poo about us. Okay, I agree in theory. So we stop voting dems. And then republicans take over fully, and make it illegal for abortion in the "good" states. and now they start rounding up all the doctors. And gay people. And planned b is made illegal. and filming cops becomes illegal (where it isn't already). But oh wait, we can't discuss actual solutions that might change things here. That will get you banned. It's funny. we're already there. We're already in the fascist state. They just haven't targeted enough comfortable people yet for everyone to realize it. But they will.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:29
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LionArcher posted:Okay, I agree in theory. So we stop voting dems. And then republicans take over fully, and make it illegal for abortion in the "good" states. and now they start rounding up all the doctors. And gay people. And planned b is made illegal. and filming cops becomes illegal (where it isn't already). I would rather all of this happen quickly then to drag it out slowly over the next 5 decades while the dems do nothing except ask us for $15 over and over again.
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Jun 25, 2022 00:31
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