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Nucleic Acids posted:Every election is the most important election of our lifetime. doesn't make what I said any less true. :p
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Jun 25, 2022 15:31
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Majorian posted:A lot of folks are taking direct action as we speak! It's not all about protests, after all. The labor movement is back with a vengeance. Workplaces are unionizing like gangbusters, workers are refusing to go back to work in the wake of the pandemic, and left-wing groups are preparing funds and supplies for strikes. The American economy is already in a tight spot, and it hypothetically wouldn't take much disruption of commerce in a few strategic areas to grind it to a halt, if strikers are organized, disciplined, and well-supplied. Hypothetically, of course. I'm not saying it's a sure-fire path to luxury space communism or whatever, and it's guaranteed to be a tough struggle, but hey, it's got a better chance of working than electoralism at this point IMO. I'm just not seeing any of this. If the left can't organize in a disciplined way in electoralism, or be ruthless enough to utilize tactics and rhetoric that win there, how are they going to do it in something that is much harder? It's going to require far more dedication from each participant top and bottom, far more sacrifices and be far more distruptive and oppositional to those who aren't left. And either way, there has to be some electoralism for those aims to be reflected in law - it's not like the past worker's movements did not participate in politics, pretty much the opposite in fact.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:31
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Rigel posted:They will switch parties, and would actually politically benefit. These are people who campaign at home promising to stand up to Schumer for Arizona/West Virginia and not let the party get everything they want. The Democrats don't have leverage over other Democrats, and key pieces of legislation their voters are demanding can't be passed because they are opposed by Democratic legislators. However you slice it, when the Democrats control the presidency and the legislature they are unwilling to produce the outcomes their voters want. I don't even think we disagree. we're both saying that the Democratic Party has no value to it's voters.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:32
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shades of eternity posted:doesn't make what I said any less true. :p It directly does, considering that the election after that will then be the most important election of our lifetime.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:32
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Nucleic Acids posted:Every election is the most important election of our lifetime. I really don't understand why this talking point bothers people. Every election is the most important because it is the one happening currently in a deteriorating government. The election determines the outcomes of multiple things in the next several years and beyond. The fact that each election is the most important seems self evident. I wish we lived in a country with boring elections that didn't really matter because all the choices were decent. That ain't reality however.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:33
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The most important election was 2016. We just saw why.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:33
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shades of eternity posted:I'm going to say something that might be uncomfortable. Every single election since 2002 has been called the most important election of my lifetime. Sorry, that slogan is all used up.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:34
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I really don't understand why this talking point bothers people. Every election is the most important because it is the one happening currently in a deteriorating government. The election determines the outcomes of multiple things in the next several years and beyond. The fact that each election is the most important seems self evident. It annoys people because it’s used in support of a party that manifestly does not represent the interests of its voters.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:34
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Nucleic Acids posted:It annoys people because it’s used in support of a party that manifestly does not represent the interests of its voters. Sure but that doesn't mean the election isn't important, just that one party says it and doesn't actually follow through with the rhetoric.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:36
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Nucleic Acids posted:It directly does, considering that the election after that will then be the most important election of our lifetime. if we don't put the effort in, the next election won't matter. and doesn't change the facts no matter what anybody else says.,
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Jun 25, 2022 15:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I really don't understand why this talking point bothers people. Every election is the most important because it is the one happening currently in a deteriorating government. The election determines the outcomes of multiple things in the next several years and beyond. The fact that each election is the most important seems self evident. because it's completely meaningless and patronizing and at this point just flat out annoying.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:37
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shades of eternity posted:if we don't put the effort in, the next election won't matter. Except the facts you mention aren’t actually facts.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:37
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shades of eternity posted:if we don't put the effort in, the next election won't matter. Yeah that's what they said last time too.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:38
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Sure but that doesn't mean the election isn't important, just that one party says it and doesn't actually follow through with the rhetoric. Maybe the Democrats need to start actually taking things more seriously then if they want to earn peoples votes.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:39
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shades of eternity posted:if we don't put the effort in, the next election won't matter.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:41
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So your going to play sad songs about the death of kings while you are goose stepped in submission? sounds counterproductive to what you actually want.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:44
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shades of eternity posted:So your going to play sad songs about the death of kings while you are goose stepped in submission? You may want to read up on the history of the Weimar Republic to see how a similar situation played out in the past.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:46
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...people do realize here that electoral politics is the lovely alterntive to "lots of people being imprisoned and/or shot" right?
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Jun 25, 2022 15:47
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apparently, they haven't.  and yes I've read my history, that's why I'm going to metaphorically fight with votes so we don't have to fight with guns. shades of eternity fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 15:48
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Twincityhacker posted:...people do realize here that electoral politics is the lovely alterntive to "lots of people being imprisoned and/or shot" right? shades of eternity posted:apparently, they haven't.  button, much like the Dems do today.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:49
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shades of eternity posted:So your going to play sad songs about the death of kings while you are goose stepped in submission? Twincityhacker posted:...people do realize here that electoral politics is the lovely alterntive to "lots of people being imprisoned and/or shot" right? The big mistake Democrats are doing right now is showing the futility of voting. The Democrats are in control of Congress and the White House right now and they haven't passed abortion rights. Biden said that he doesn't want to expand the courts. If voting for the Democrats and putting them into power achieves nothing, then people will seek out alternatives
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Jun 25, 2022 15:52
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So what are you going to do about it?
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Jun 25, 2022 15:53
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Twincityhacker posted:...people do realize here that electoral politics is the lovely alterntive to "lots of people being imprisoned and/or shot" right? Kind of hard to believe that when the party that’s supposed to protect us from those things just fails to do so again and again.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:53
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Twincityhacker posted:Pal, I really hope you are actually getting off social media tonight because that is the doomscroll of all doomscrolls. Yeah... but I do find it cathartic to troll people into admitting that things like healthcare should be a human right, and that we shouldn't let a minority dictate what to do with our bodies.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:53
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true.spoon posted:With that definition voting for different faces (or more faces) obviously entails the possibility of changing the organizational goal. Absolutely, but the problem is that "more faces" isnt a real solution because: 1) Just adding more people doesn't guarantee the demographics of the added people change, I. E. You could just end up adding a bunch of Manchin and make the problem worse. 2) We don't actually know how many people with the correct opinions you actually need to add because we have only had show votes so far, and the calculus for a show vote is different than a vote that has a chance of passing. Manchin is visibly against bills that would achieve our goals, but we don't actually have a count for the number of people that are against it and just engaging in show votes. The solution, if you are going to be voting for Democrats, can't just be to add people. It has to directly marginalize the power of the holdouts. You'll have to directly go to war with Manchin, Sinema, and whoever sides with them.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:54
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exactly, it took 50 years for the republicans to do this abomination. You are complaining about a paltry 20 years ...give me a break.
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Jun 25, 2022 15:55
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shades of eternity posted:apparently, they haven't. bad news, too late. your metaphorical fighting has resulted in you far more materially supporting concentration camps for Mexican children, bodily dragged into cages by gun-toting officials of a democratic government. remember those, they were bad back when Republicans were running them, and they're still running at full capacity under the Dems pointing guns at minorities to preserve the country's racial purity is currently democratic policy you are (possibly unhappily) endorsing with your vote. the fight has started. the question is how many more people need to be brutalized before someone you give a poo poo about gets affected.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:00
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:bad news, too late. your metaphorical fighting has resulted in you far more materially supporting concentration camps for Mexican children, bodily dragged into cages by gun-toting officials of a democratic government.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:08
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Nucleic Acids posted:It directly does, considering that the election after that will then be the most important election of our lifetime. Only if we live that long.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:10
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An important message for everyone in this thread https://youtu.be/UZ6JU7Vm6fc Spend time with family, friends, pets and make close connections even closer. Things are going to get way worse slowly and then pretty quickly in the next 4-6 years. Arguing with the decorum-brained libs or wagging fingers at the left for not voting in a failed system isn’t going to improve your mental health and is actively keeping you from those you care about. Those you care about will suddenly disappear from your life. Spend time with them doing fun poo poo or just chilling. I’m not trying to be flippant here. Everything DOES SUCK. I’m saying that with the knowledge everything sucks…might as well spend time with those you care about than with online slap fights. I’ll take at least a one week probation for this message. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 25, 2022 16:11
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Twincityhacker posted:...people do realize here that electoral politics is the lovely alterntive to "lots of people being imprisoned and/or shot" right? are lots of people not being imprisoned and/or shot now?
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Jun 25, 2022 16:13
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Voting only helps if you live in a democracy. If your political leaders are not acknowledging that fact, they aren't going to change it, and voting is honestly just an exercise in futility. But then again, when you live in a non-democracy, that more or less legitimizes non-democratic response. This sort of stuff is the right direction, I feel: https://www.businessinsider.in/poli...ow/92445469.cms (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 25, 2022 16:15
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shades of eternity posted:If you think the republicans are getting everything they want now, you ain't seen nothing yet. A complete democratic collapse could also see key amendments repealed. Welcome back poll taxes and say goodbye to the income tax (unless they want to keep it once they have control of every office in every branch). Say hello to President DeSantis For Life with the repeal of the 22nd. It could be (and get) so much worse. The Democratic party is at least a speed bump, and there is no action you could personally do in just 2 hours of direct action with as much benefit as voting blue once a year. It is literally the least you can do, and it has some of the highest benefits for the time you spend, and that's even assuming your vote is being thrown away to a completely toothless Democratic party. Obviously that's not all it takes, and I'm not saying you have to plaster your Prius in Biden 2024 stickers. If I'm wrong, someone would have to show me how those things listed above would survive after 30 years of complete Republican domination of every office and branch, and what direct action efforts are a better use of my time than 2 hours spent voting once a year. Hell I've spent that long waiting in a hot parking lot for other organizers to show up for canvasing before, so that's a tall order IMO.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:20
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Stringent posted:compared to the heyday of american labor organization in the 1930s and 40s you could make a case for describing the current generation as effete. it wouldn't necessarily be the word i'd choose, but you could definitely make a case for it. “Ain’t got it in them” the parents of the WWII generation talking about their children in “And keep your powder dry”
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Jun 25, 2022 16:25
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Bar Ran Dun posted:“Ain’t got it in them” the parents of the WWII generation talking about their children in “And keep your powder dry”
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Jun 25, 2022 16:31
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BiggerBoat posted:Someone brought up reservations as a work around and I had a really stupid idea. This is a thing already I think.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:32
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cat botherer posted:I'm not inferring anything about this poster, but these takes seem to be very common with economically comfortable liberals. They don't see the oppression of our system, but instead see Trump et al being rude on Twitter or whatever. When that's your main reference frame, you assume voting significantly helps the actual oppression because you don't see the Republicans stupid faces as much. I've noticed this as well. They talk about harm reduction but in reality, it's harm shifting. So long as the ones near and dear to economically comfortable liberals are not hurt, the oppression caused by the government be it blue or red is invisible to them. It's always how the democrats are the lesser evil, but just continue to ignore that it still means that the Democrats do evil. I guess in their mind, the lesser evil means not having single payer healthcare and forgiving student loans. In reality, it's submitting to the fascist framing of controlling our borders. Have we forgotten that Kamala told refugees not to come to America? During the 2020 unrest, it was Democratically controlled cities that unleashed their cops on black populations and painted yellow letters on streets to diffuse sentiment while not doing anything substantial. Then these democrats turned around and said that the demands of the people they governed and hurt caused them to lose seats in the house. As long as the harm is out of sight, it's out of mind.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:39
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Have we forgotten that as AG for California Harris' office was openly flouting SCOTUS rulings to keep people imprisoned in conditions ruled 'cruel and unusual' to feed the market for convict labor? Edit: Wrong thread but still applicable here. Relying on the Democratic Party to make choices in line with civil rights is no sure thing.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:49
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shades of eternity posted:if we don't put the effort in, the next election won't matter. People put in effort for the 2020 election and it still didn't matter.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:53
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Have any Senate Democrats suggested impeaching justices for lying during confirmation hearings?
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Jun 25, 2022 16:58
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