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You are just proving how unenlightened these forums are compared to the hallowed halls of RPGCodex.net
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Jun 25, 2022 16:46
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Parmenides, my dude, if you'd been born into a Spartiate family they would've thrown you into the trash pile they consigned all unhealthy babies. IIRC, this was debunked; archaeologists found that the trash pile in question contained only adult skeletons.
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Jun 25, 2022 16:57
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Roman/ancient history: the internal affairs of gentlemen have nothing to do with helots
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Jun 25, 2022 17:03
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Silver2195 posted:IIRC, this was debunked; archaeologists found that the trash pile in question contained only adult skeletons. Maybe they could make an exception
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Jun 25, 2022 17:07
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CoolCab posted:hey you know how fantasising about owning slaves would get you banned literally anywhere else on this website, well We're just having some fun here, don't worry. Nothing lasts forever. 
Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jun 25, 2022 |
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Jun 25, 2022 17:43
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The slave underclass if this ancient military dictatorship wasn't treated that badly. The ruling class could've been much more cruel to the people to they were oppressing. Ergo it was all good.
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Jun 25, 2022 17:46
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I do find it utterly unsurprising that the Sparta idolizer is a prosecutor and a landlord
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Jun 25, 2022 18:18
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Parmenides posted:Sure, there's plenty of roles I could play. If you want something in line with my career, I'm doing something in the political/legal system and engaging in some philosophical pursuits. I said I could be a logographer in Athens, but there are plenty of possibilities. You talk about being a landholder; I do own/manage some properties, so sure I could be a landed gentleman. Maybe Xenophon rides up to my estate and we write the Oikonomikos together; I have owned horses and know how to ride, so we have shared interests. What would your life had been like with this sort of a perspective had you been born a helot? And not a Spartan's illegitimate child, either - a helot derived of other helots. Or hell, just about any sort of system of unfree labor, not just a sodbuster or a general purpose laborer. By your own theory, wouldn't that mean it would keep happening... eternally?
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Jun 25, 2022 18:36
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I think here can't even conceive of not being an aristocrat. They lack imagination or empathy so they find the idea of being anything but a pampered child of privilege preposterous. That they claim to be a philosopher while fantasizing about the Lakedemonians, a people famous for not producing any thinkers of note, gives the game up: all they care about is being the boot. They're just another greedy, amoral oppressor in a long line of the same, with their only thoughts being how to justify their inhumanity while sounding lofty. gently caress Sparta, btw.
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Jun 25, 2022 19:53
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Well yeah he's a landlord
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Jun 25, 2022 20:07
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as the decades dragged on even being a spartiate didn't keep you from getting the boot on your back. eventually the royal families and their favored spartiates controlled almost everything and pushed the other spartiates to the edge of subsistence because as a spartiate you weren't legally allowed to work even if you weren't a useless gently caress definitely a great system worthy of millennia of admiration
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Jun 25, 2022 20:12
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When does Keldoclock return
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Jun 25, 2022 21:48
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Nessus posted:If you left aside philosopher/intellectual, what social role do you believe you would have in the ancient world? We'll even be generous - let's assume you get one that suits your talent and training, because statistically the answer would be "peasant" by a decisive majority until quite recently. "Talent", "training" and "intellectual" doing a lot of work in this post. (Not disagreeing with the overall point though) But why is anyone assuming this rear end in a top hat has formal training in the Classics? Everything so far screams internet fascist spartaboo who read a bunch to try to justify his horrific politics. The "I'm sure you got that from a YouTube video" quip was just way too on the nose.
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Jun 25, 2022 21:51
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Jazerus posted:as the decades dragged on even being a spartiate didn't keep you from getting the boot on your back. eventually the royal families and their favored spartiates controlled almost everything and pushed the other spartiates to the edge of subsistence because as a spartiate you weren't legally allowed to work even if you weren't a useless gently caress It's a very anti-person attitude, but I suppose an ancient Greek decided it and we don't own land, so Lead out in cuffs posted:"Talent", "training" and "intellectual" doing a lot of work in this post. (Not disagreeing with the overall point though)
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Jun 25, 2022 21:55
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:When does Keldoclock return Wasn't Keldoclock Ukrainian? He's probably too busy right now to post. EDIT: Oh God, what if Keldoclock was Zelenskyy all along 
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Jun 25, 2022 22:04
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Personally I find the gimmick pretty funny but I'm optimistic that any bystanders reading are aware that a small cult of psychos beating, murdering, and raping a large mass of slaves is not worthy of even a second's admiration.
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Jun 25, 2022 22:05
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Part of why it's funny is because it's so absurd no one here could possibly take it seriously, so nothing to get actual mad about.
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Jun 25, 2022 22:07
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Aristocrats everywhere are not only a tiny minority but also, without exception, extremely inbred and thus far too stupid to understand even the most basic aspects of human life. This is not taking into account the sociological aspects of the upper class who have never had to experience any sort of consequence for anything in life and as a result have no morality at all. Thus the only ethical approach is to execute them all on sight without exception.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:05
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Lead out in cuffs posted:"Talent", "training" and "intellectual" doing a lot of work in this post. (Not disagreeing with the overall point though) Well, this idiot can't even formulate why he likes his supposedly favourite philosophy, so you can be certain he's just a fascist with an aesthetic.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:22
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I usually assume anyone educated in "The Classics" is at least a bit of a fascist. At least if they're British but that goes without saying as the perfidious Anglo is naturally fascistic.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:25
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Posting in the ancient history threat about how 95% of the people who have made it into the historical record are subhuman scum incapable of emotion. Like, is nuts but if you genuinely hate everyone in human history for not spontaneously erupting into luxury gay space communism then why even bother studying it?
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Jun 25, 2022 23:29
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Strategic Tea posted:Posting in the ancient history threat about how 95% of the people who have made it into the historical record are subhuman scum incapable of emotion. There's a difference between hating them and acknowledging they ain't valid role models for 21st century.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:33
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Strategic Tea posted:Posting in the ancient history threat about how 95% of the people who have made it into the historical record are subhuman scum incapable of emotion. steinrokkan posted:There's a difference between hating them and acknowledging they ain't valid role models for 21st century.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:35
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Rome was cool but I don't think Italy should violently conquer the Mediterranean again
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Jun 25, 2022 23:41
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cheetah7071 posted:Rome was cool but I don't think Italy should violently conquer the Mediterranean again Well the brain geniuses of RPGCodex.net(TM) would disagree with your puerile analysis
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Jun 25, 2022 23:43
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cheetah7071 posted:Rome was cool but I don't think Italy should violently conquer the Mediterranean again Yeah they also need to take the rest of Europe, Africa and America
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Jun 25, 2022 23:47
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Nessus posted:An interesting and very aristocratic outlook, which I am sure you will take as a descriptor not a judgment. When you say, "with this sort of perspective", are you asking how a helot would behave if it had such an opinion/perspective? If I was that helot, I would have to decide whether to accept my social status and pursue virtue in that context. If I accept it, then I would probably take pleasure in my family life, and I would engage with the local religious and social institutions. Maybe I would gather local myths and share them, or cultivate some practical art like cooking, or identifying plants, or whatever captures my fancy as I get older. All the other loyal helots would love me and, depending on the time period, my hometown would be free from invasion and raids. If I have some burning ambition and cannot accept my station, then I have to decide whether to work in the system or go beyond it. If I'm going to be a loyalist, I'll strive to become a neodamodeis, or at least try to learn a practical skill that could make me particularly valuable. If a strong and loyal helot can become a neodamodeis, maybe a helot talented in a practical trade could become a perioikoi. If I'm not a loyalist, and I am ambitious and adventurous, then I suppose I would want to flee to some foreign land. Depending on the time period and/or my skillset, I might be welcomed with open arms. If I was particularly bitter and had some grudge against the military class, maybe I would sign up to a rebellion movement and get myself killed. Finally, if I was fed up with it all, I would retire to the forests like an ancient chinese or hellenic sage; I believe self-imposed exile should be an option for every individual regardless of their class, and checking out would not have been difficult in antiquity (putting aside survival skills and preparation). On the last sentence, I assume you're referring to my own philosophical/metaphysical ideas. I don't know the significance of what you're asking here. A strict eternalist model of time ensures that each moment or event is inviolate; the chronology exists as a whole. So yes, the fact that there was such a helot doesn't become false, but I think the context needs to be fleshed out more before we try to treat it like a groundhog day scenario. Anyway, I'm also unclear what this overall line of questioning is getting at, unless you're just saying "have some sympathy." In which case yes, I can be sympathetic, and I can also appreciate the challenges of life, the context of human society, etc. Maybe as someone who is interested in buddhism, you can answer a question for me: I thought buddhists believed in reincarnation, and that your status is in some way impacted by your previous life or karma? I would like to learn about buddhism, please tell us about the possibility of natural born helots. FishFood posted:That they claim to be a philosopher while fantasizing about the Lakedemonians, a people famous for not producing any thinkers of note, gives the game up: all they care about is being the boot. Plenty of philosophers respected the Lakedaimonians, you are being ridiculous. Appreciating Sparta's virtues in no way disqualifies one from being a philosopher, if anything it shows they have a mature mind capable of fully considering complex issues. Anyway, I cut out the rest of the nonsense you wrote, and I won't bother quoting the other posts where americans were wringing their hands and crying about slavery or whatever. I regard helotry as a type of serfdom. I think serfdom is a practical and helpful institution that should be implemented to varying degrees in most countries today. Some countries like China do so, to their overall benefit. As for the private ownership and breeding of slaves, I don't think it is a suitable or positive institution today, at least not in any country with which I am familiar. I can envision certain scenarios where it makes sense, but it's pointless to discuss them. To seriously discuss ethics, we need to discuss morality, because ethics is applied morality. To discuss which political models and practices are appropriate, we also need to consider the overall context of the society, the quality and expectations of its members, etc. The real discussion will grow from there, and it won't involve shedding tears about the fact that we can have a nuanced view on slavery. Those whose are incapable of such objectivity and philosophical spirit simply aren't ready to participate. If they do control the discussion it will be positively harmful. Trying to drag people into a place they don't belong doesn't do any good. Most users should till the forum fields quietly, they can post in the cooking thread and other places suitable to their nature. Grand Fromage posted:Part of why it's funny is because it's so absurd no one here could possibly take it seriously, so nothing to get actual mad about. Yes, good job, calm them down and reassure them. The forum goers who remain here, with few exceptions, are like stunted children, no? They've learnt the pre-approved ideas and words, but if they encounter something different they need an adult to hold their hand and tell them they're good. As long as you keep an eye on them and maintain the peace, they're tolerable and ensure a baseline amount of forum activity, but if you give them a say things will rapidly degenerate. Which is what happened previously at this site: the masters were dissolute and gave free rein to the internet helotry. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 25, 2022 23:54
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Imagine writing that many words without saying anything of substance.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:55
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I literally can't imagine being dumb enough to do so.
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Jun 25, 2022 23:56
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If I were a helot I'd take solace in my posting on RPGCodex.net(TM)(r)(c), the philosophy Central for illiterates and 13 year old incels such as myself
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Jun 25, 2022 23:58
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FreudianSlippers posted:Imagine writing that many words without saying anything of substance. It really is an art form. I don't think I've ever seen anybody so thoroughly vapid as this guy. It must take great training to avoid obtaining any insight into anything.
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Jun 26, 2022 00:00
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Parmenides nuts
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Jun 26, 2022 00:03
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steinrokkan posted:It really is an art form. I don't think I've ever seen anybody so thoroughly vapid as this guy. It must take great training to avoid obtaining any insight into anything. Now hold on we did get insight into how serfdom is good, actually
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Jun 26, 2022 00:04
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the yeti posted:Parmenides nuts Lmao
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Jun 26, 2022 00:05
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the yeti posted:Parmenides nuts I'm surprised how long it took for a real philosopher to emerge
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Jun 26, 2022 00:16
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Carthage was the good guys
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Jun 26, 2022 00:19
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Buschmaki posted:Carthage was the good guys Eh, neither Rome nor Carthage were good guys.
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Jun 26, 2022 00:24
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Vercengetorix was the good guy though
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Jun 26, 2022 00:37
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Parmenides posted:When you say, "with this sort of perspective", are you asking how a helot would behave if it
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Jun 26, 2022 00:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Eh, neither Rome nor Carthage were good guys. Remember what I said about archaeological evidence casting doubt on Spartan child-killing? Archaeological evidence tends to confirm Carthaganian child-killing.
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Jun 26, 2022 00:45
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