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MonsterEnvy posted:Ok so if the Dragon uses Draconic Frenzy. The Multi attack penalty would apply as normal and the fourth attack they could make will be at -10 as well correct? Correct. As someone whose GM has been using the official Foundry Paizo stuff, it's really nice. Strongly recommended across two campaigns.
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Jun 26, 2022 06:32
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Also checking some stuff with the Dragons looks like Paizo made an uncorrected mistake with them. The Red and Blue Dragons are smaller than the Green Dragons being only huge. (And also smaller than their Silver and Gold Counterparts)
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Jun 26, 2022 06:39
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I really like the Tokenizer module for quick token icon making, Being able to just copy and paste and then edit it to be suitable in the foundry client is very handy and much faster than tokenstamp or other similar sites. https://github.com/mrprimate/tokenizer
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Jun 26, 2022 08:25
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Have they had discounts on the Foundry modules? Sixty bucks is a bit too rich for my blood.
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Jun 26, 2022 16:16
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No discounts yet, but they've only been up for a month or two at this point.
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Jun 26, 2022 16:47
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Most of the monster pictures are on 2e.aonprd.com as well. They even have transparent backgrounds already, which is useful if you want to change the monster backgrounds with a module like Tokenizer, or if you want to just place them directly on the map without them looking too janky.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:33
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Megazver posted:Have they had discounts on the Foundry modules? Sixty bucks is a bit too rich for my blood. You can buy the PDFs of older adventures and import them. It is the same price as running them in person.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:56
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VikingofRock posted:Most of the monster pictures are on 2e.aonprd.com as well. They even have transparent backgrounds already, which is useful if you want to change the monster backgrounds with a module like Tokenizer, or if you want to just place them directly on the map without them looking too janky. The Importer gave me copies of all the full images.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well first what's an easy way to get tokens for all the monsters. The Compendiums are pretty blank. Secondly other than the beginner box is there a way to get all the maps and stuff from an adventure path in quickly even like buying it? Install Token Variant Art (which automatically searches for matching art for you rather than needing to select files manually each time) and grab some free or paid token packs (like Caeora's, which Token Variant Art is already preconfigured for) and set up the Token Variant Art settings to use them. That gets you easy selection of a bunch of tokens, and top of that you can very easily give multiple identical enemies in a scene different tokens. To go with it I'd also recommend Token Mold, which lets you automatically number identical tokens ("Wolf (1)", "Wolf (2)", "Wolf (3)", etc) or automatically add adjectives to them ("Annoying Commoner", "Perspicacious Commoner", "Tall Commoner", etc), which makes it way easier to keep things straight in crowded combats.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:25
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Roadie posted:Install Token Variant Art (which automatically searches for matching art for you rather than needing to select files manually each time) and grab some free or paid token packs (like Caeora's, which Token Variant Art is already preconfigured for) and set up the Token Variant Art settings to use them. That gets you easy selection of a bunch of tokens, and top of that you can very easily give multiple identical enemies in a scene different tokens. Thanks for Token Mold. I used to use maptool and I liked how tokens of the same name would get numbers. It was annoying with Roll20 how that did not happen.
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Jun 26, 2022 20:58
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Those premade Foundry modules are so good. I bought all of them even though I’m not going to be running them anytime soon so that hopefully they make more. It would be sad if the 3rd Alkenstar module is the last one they make, especially since pdf2foundry will no longer work for future APs.
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Jun 26, 2022 21:24
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ihatepants posted:Those premade Foundry modules are so good. I bought all of them even though I’m not going to be running them anytime soon so that hopefully they make more. It would be sad if the 3rd Alkenstar module is the last one they make, especially since pdf2foundry will no longer work for future APs. Well at least you can still do it with the older ones. I imagine they will do more Foundry Modules as official support seems pretty strong.
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Jun 26, 2022 21:44
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Also reading more of the thread when 2e was first announced. Man a lot of people were really down on it, even people that later changed their minds.
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Jun 26, 2022 23:10
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I initially thought 2e was awful, warmed up to it a bit when I read through more of the class features and such, and then concluded that it was awful again when I realized how much more janky everything was than it initially seemed.
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Jun 26, 2022 23:25
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I didn't like much of what I saw of 2e during the play tests, or the core book. I was holding off on making my decision until after the APG. Well,, I still don't care for it. Magic just feels too weak compared to my idea of what I want out of my fantasy games. I freely admit it's a lot more balanced than 1e, but for me that was a feature, not a flaw. Although I will admit I like the idea of playing a Goblin Inventor in a 2e game at some point in time.
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Jun 27, 2022 00:15
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Idk man, magic still has literally all the possible utility. It just also doesn't do far more damage than a fighter does on top of that now. I think totally fine damage plus massive utility is a fair trade vs melee classes.
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Jun 27, 2022 00:30
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Gwaihir posted:Idk man, magic still has literally all the possible utility. It just also doesn't do far more damage than a fighter does on top of that now. I think totally fine damage plus massive utility is a fair trade vs melee classes. 
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Jun 27, 2022 00:37
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Evilgm posted:You missed two of the biggest changes - Nimble Companions no longer increase their Unarmored Defense and Scare to Death only kills on a Critical Failure on their save. And you can no longer use Champion Dedication to get 3 shield blocks in a round.
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Jun 27, 2022 00:52
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Almost forgot, but, all the magic classes also get generally far more useful spreads of stat allocations. Charisma casters get a huge pile of out of combat utility basically for free, int gets you a ton of bonus skill training, and wis is used for very important stuff like perception, medicine, and will saves.
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Jun 27, 2022 00:52
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I actually kind of liked that PF2 spellcasters have way lower single-target damage capability than even low-effort martial characters can achieve as to not steal their niche, but the fact that they still have spells that are specifically intended to do exactly that effectively makes them trap options. Like, why give players the options to spend their most valuable limited daily resource to do what the Fighter does at like half effectiveness for one round? Even outside of damage though, the utility of magic is tuned way the hell down in a very feel-bad kind of way. Reading minds has been split into multiple spells, Mind Reading for surface thoughts and Mind Probe for seeking specific information, and in the case of both Mind Probe and Zone of Truth even a target that fails its saving throw can still avoid giving you information which defeats the whole point of those spells. Dimension Door can no longer bring someone else with you and now requires direct line of sight so no going through walls either, all the Remove Fear/Sickness/etc spells use counteract attempts so you can spend your turn and resources just to at best undo/trade someone else's turn and resources and still very often fail, and sustained spells with no duration can't go beyond 10 minutes so you can't even have fun spending all day puppeting an illusion around. The balance on spells is all over the place, too. All of the above competes for use with stuff like Fear and Slow that are both absolutely busted. You'd be insane to not take the two of them at both effective levels and cast them every fight, a boss unlucky enough to critically fail their save vs Slow might as well just instantly die.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:28
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Does Pathfinder 2e have a way of handling solo monsters?
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Jun 27, 2022 01:34
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If by 'handling' you mean encounter balance, they just tweaked the numbers to where fighting fewer higher-level enemies is intended to be equivalent challenge to fighting more numerous lower-level enemies, via an XP value budget for encounters. There's no special rules for solo enemies where they use the stats of lower-level enemies with more actions per round instead, so it'll just be a single guy who with lots of HP who's hard to hit and nearly one-shots a player every round. There's a sort of 'save-or-suck' protection for such encounters in the incapacitation trait, where enemies of a higher level than you (or the spell slot used) automatically upgrade their saving throw by one step (failure to a success, success to a crit success, etc) against effects with that trait, like the Sleep or Suggestion spells or effects that instantly kill a target. There are still a lot of spells that effectively disable a target entirely that don't have the incapacitation trait though, like the Slow spell that removes 1/3 or 2/3s of the target's actions for the entire encounter on a failed or critically failed save. A boss with only 1 action per round can't even cast spells anymore since they're nearly all 2 actions, and since it takes an action to Stride the whole party could just start 'kiting' the boss to death, so that's why it's effectively an insta-kill on a critical failure. Honestly, on top of some stuff just slipping through the cracks when it comes to incapacitation, the fact that higher-level enemies have a higher chance to save against your spells anyway makes incapacitation kind of double-dippy as a fix. They probably should've made incapacitation only upgrade critical failures rather than any result. Vanguard Warden fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 01:58
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I successfully solod a dinosaur that had difficult terrain where I didn't. It felt good.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:07
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Froghammer posted:Does Pathfinder 2e have a way of handling solo monsters? From reading the core book.  So a solo boss monster would be 2 to 4 levels above the party depending on how difficult you want it. Hmm I note this chart current means Treerazer will always be a beyond extreme threat solo boss even at level 20. Is there a way to increase your power once you get to 20 yet? MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 02:17
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Vanguard Warden posted:If by 'handling' you mean encounter balance, they just tweaked the numbers to where fighting fewer higher-level enemies is intended to be equivalent challenge to fighting more numerous lower-level enemies, via an XP value budget for encounters. There's no special rules for solo enemies where they use the stats of lower-level enemies with more actions per round instead, so it'll just be a single guy who with lots of HP who's hard to hit and nearly one-shots a player every round. "Boss" monsters also get some sort of action or spell choices that allow them to do more than the standard action economy with extra attacks or good AoE spells - look at dragons for example, spellcasting or not they have good abilities for this and other monsters or NPCs that fit the mold do as well. I believe the GMG goes over this in its monster design section.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:18
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Vanguard Warden posted:Honestly, on top of some stuff just slipping through the cracks when it comes to incapacitation, the fact that higher-level enemies have a higher chance to save against your spells anyway makes incapacitation kind of double-dippy as a fix. They probably should've made incapacitation only upgrade critical failures rather than any result. Gotta disagree on this one. Letting Monks just keep a boss stun-locked every round would be miserable.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:38
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drat, I've been playing this game for years and didn't know that about the Incapacitation trait.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:53
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Vanguard Warden posted:Honestly, on top of some stuff just slipping through the cracks when it comes to incapacitation, the fact that higher-level enemies have a higher chance to save against your spells anyway makes incapacitation kind of double-dippy as a fix. They probably should've made incapacitation only upgrade critical failures rather than any result. Ok, hope you enjoy lower-level ghouls still permalocking you, then.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:13
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Toshimo posted:Gotta disagree on this one. Letting Monks just keep a boss stun-locked every round would be miserable. Stun doesn't stack with slow or even other stuns, so if your whole party were all monks spamming Stunning Fist on a boss it would still only ever lose 1 action per round without the critical failure effect happening (which would be covered by how I would've changed incapacitation). Regardless, Stunning Fist is a Fort save that triggers when you hit at least once from Flurry of Blows, which you can only use once per round, so we're talking about a boss with somewhere around 4 more AC and Fort save bonus than equal level targets against a Monk's middling attack bonus and class DC. "Stun-locked every round" doesn't even come close to describing this situation. You know what doesn't have incapacitation at all? Someone swinging a hammer or a flail around that automatically knocks the target prone on a crit, which requires spending 1 action to Stand from to regain the ability to move and end the circumstance penalties to attacks and AC so it's effectively in the ballpark of stun 1 or slow 1. Even that same Monk using Flurry of Blows could get critical specialization with brawling weapons from somewhere to have every crit invoke a Fort save vs their class DC with slow 1 on a failure, almost exactly like Stunning Fist's effect but with no incapacitation trait. It's super easy to burn a boss encounter's actions away if you know where to look, which is why I assert that the incapacitation trait doesn't properly do its job. Cyouni posted:Ok, hope you enjoy lower-level ghouls still permalocking you, then. I mean that effect just seems busted in the first place at first glance, an encounter of as many equal level ghouls as budget allows wouldn't be significantly different to more lower-level ones without incapacitation (except you might be able to one-shot the entire encounter with Fireball). It's still an effect that requires a successful attack roll against your AC followed by a failed Fort save, I'd have to look at the math for expected PC values at those levels to see just what the typical chance of that landing would be but it's definitely going to be low even before you start to out-level the target. Also, who doesn't play either an elf or a skeleton?  EDIT: From the table above, a moderate encounter of two equal-level ghouls wouldn't have to worry about incapacitation at all by normal rules, and an equivalent encounter of level -4 ghouls would be 8 of them. That's certainly a lot more chances to attempt to apply the paralysis every round, but with at least 20% lower chance to hit and 20% higher chance for the PCs to save against the effect if they do, just from level difference alone before considering new item bonuses, proficiency ranks, and ability boosts gained in those levels. That doesn't seem that bad even with incapacitation turned off when the party is going to one-shot a few of the ghouls before their initiative even comes up from striking runes and a full MAP worth of extra attack bonus. Vanguard Warden fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 03:16
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I think incapacitation is a pretty decent in its current state. Having your boss get stun locked can suck, and players also don’t like being stun locked.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:56
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Slow is a bit of an outlier with the spells and probably right on the edge whether it should have the Incapacitation trait
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Jun 27, 2022 04:15
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Don't forget Spiritual Anamnesis, which is pretty close to Slow but a spell level higher, targets Will saves instead, and also downgrades critical success and failure results for undead and extraplanar creatures.  Hideous Laughter is also the same general idea, though with a Sustain cost. Super not hard to get at least slow 1 without incapacitation, most of them just eat an entire first round on a critical failure instead of the slow 2 from the Slow spell itself.
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Jun 27, 2022 04:30
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Vanguard Warden posted:Don't forget Spiritual Anamnesis, which is pretty close to Slow but a spell level higher, targets Will saves instead, and also downgrades critical success and failure results for undead and extraplanar creatures. Might have to play some "GM, may I" with spiritual anamnesis though since it's an uncommon spell. Hideous Laughter also doesn't slow 1 for a turn on a success (which is a very big deal). The anti-reaction ability is very valuable though.
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Jun 27, 2022 04:35
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Vanguard Warden posted:I mean that effect just seems busted in the first place at first glance, an encounter of as many equal level ghouls as budget allows wouldn't be significantly different to more lower-level ones without incapacitation (except you might be able to one-shot the entire encounter with Fireball). It's still an effect that requires a successful attack roll against your AC followed by a failed Fort save, I'd have to look at the math for expected PC values at those levels to see just what the typical chance of that landing would be but it's definitely going to be low even before you start to out-level the target. Where it's probably the worst, I think, is at level-2. Low enough to be spammed in numbers, not quite low enough that they're that out of the danger zone. A Moderate-tier encounter with ghouls at level 3 is against four of them, and one attacking twice with flat-footed can easily make life really annoying. Quick check says that's a 65% chance of being tagged at least once every turn without flat-footed, with a 25-40% chance of losing at least one turn to each ghoul. 15% chance per ghoul of having to make two saves, with about a 35-60% chance to fail one. (Obviously, this gets even worse for casters with lower AC.) Incidentally, my group's party of level 4s nearly got wiped by a group of level 2 ghasts, even without paralysis ever coming into play. Fighter underestimated them and tried to reach control them, which played really badly into their ability to avoid AoOs. Eventually got saved by Sorc with Oracle dedication casting Heal 1 twice. I think they would easily have died if incapacitation wasn't a thing. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 07:59
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Cyouni posted:Where it's probably the worst, I think, is at level-2. Oh hey, I actually decided to run the math down for this myself. There's a lot of potential circumstantial range all over the place, so as a baseline I assumed a full three Strikes from the ghoul against a front-line melee character, for which I used a Fighter (trained in armor, expert in Fort saves) without a shield as that's pretty middle-of-the-road compared to squishier backline characters or super defensive Champions or Monks. I also assumed a Constitution of 14, because with a starting 18 in your key ability it's pretty typical to see a starting spread of either 18/16/12/12 or 18/14/14/12, so 14 seemed fair. This yields an 18 AC and +7 Fort save for the level 1 Fighter, and a 21 AC and +9 Fort save for the level 3 Fighter (upgrading from medium to heavy armor since level 1). Multiplying the level 1 ghoul's chance to hit per attack (including the agile claws for each attack beyond the first) by the Fighter's chance to fail their save to find the chance per Strike of paralyzing the target, that's 21%/14%/7% against the level 1 Fighter and 11.25%/6.25%/1.25% against the level 3 Fighter. Multiplying the chances to fail together we can find the chance per round to paralyze the target, which is ~36.81% vs the level 1 Fighter and ~17.83% vs the level 3 Fighter. An encounter can have 2x as many level -2 enemies as an encounter of the same threat using same-level enemies, so if we do the same trick for two ghouls together vs the level 3 Fighter that's ~32.49%, slightly less than half as many ghouls at the same level as the party. Obviously this can start changing when you throw flat-footed or Raise Shield or even the need for Stride actions to close the distance into the mix, but that stuff usually favors the more diverse party anyway. TLDR: Under fairly typical circumstances, an encounter of twice as many ghouls of level -2 would have pretty much the same group odds of paralyzing a target every round even if you removed the incapacitation trait entirely. If a bunch of lower-level ghouls still seem really deadly with incapacitation reigning them in, then an encounter of 2-3 equal-level ghouls is probably a TPK machine and ghouls are probably just over-tuned in general.
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Jun 27, 2022 19:45
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I think the biggest danger is to those who can't afford to push both AC and Fort. A caster is likely to have 3 less Fort, and can easily push up the chances to be hit with flat-footed. Unarmoured casters have it the worst, with probably 3 less AC on top of that. That's when the higher action economy is more likely to be problematic, when there's four ghouls as opposed to two.
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Jun 27, 2022 21:05
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I'm trying to port some Kingdom Death Monster quarries over to PF2, started with the Flower Knight. Some stats are still default, and some description is kinda rough around the edges, but how's this seem for a CR11 solo boss for a party of level 8s, or 7s if they're suicidal? It'll be stuck in a 35ft radius ring. Without actually test running it I have no idea how this sort of thing would work in game since it's just fundamentally really different than a lot of PF monsters. Still working on how to get KDM mechanics into PF2 so it's a work in progress, but any feedback would be appreciated
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Jun 28, 2022 04:02
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A 35 foot radius ring is huge and since it’s basically the attack aura for this thing I’d reduce it significantly to like 15 feet around the creature.
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Jun 28, 2022 04:56
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That AC and DCs are going to be VERY difficult for a group of level 8 characters to even hit or effect with spells. I think a basic save for a level 8 caster's spell is 28, so with a +24 on it's saving throws it's almost impossible for the monster to fail a save. A fighter probably only has a 40% chance to hit an AC 28 on a first strike with no flanking, too. Any other martial is even worse off. I'd probably lower it's AC/DCs/Saves by a couple points, but give it a good bit more hp. That'll give you a chance to show off it's moves while still letting players hit it instead of chain missing. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jun 28, 2022 |
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Jun 28, 2022 06:07
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sugar free jazz posted:I'm trying to port some Kingdom Death Monster quarries over to PF2, started with the Flower Knight. Some stats are still default, and some description is kinda rough around the edges, but how's this seem for a CR11 solo boss for a party of level 8s, or 7s if they're suicidal? It'll be stuck in a 35ft radius ring. Without actually test running it I have no idea how this sort of thing would work in game since it's just fundamentally really different than a lot of PF monsters. Still working on how to get KDM mechanics into PF2 so it's a work in progress, but any feedback would be appreciated Note that One Thousand Cuts works really questionably, to the point where it can theoretically instantly murder someone with absolutely no way to deal with it. The reactions also seem like they could be insanely frustrating to players despite the low level 11 AC. Just being able to spend two reactions each turn on negating two attacks would drive me crazy. Overall, I think it's suffering from a level of complexity that's too high to efficiently run, and would limit its possible actions/reactions a little, even if it hurts the original concept a bit. Tried a possible variation that might give you ideas. I'd say maybe 1 reaction, 3 variant types of actions on its turn at the most would be a good idea to run by.
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Jun 28, 2022 11:24
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