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Velocity Raptor posted:Purely a guess on my part, but based how to recieve other federal benefits, I would guess you have to explicitly start the process (as opposed to simply qualifying and receiving the benefit) and fill out forms along with your most recent tax return, a recent paystub (to show your current earnings) along with bills to show what you pay for utilities, rent, and other necessities or loans. That's actually pretty accurate if I'm going by the right program. I think it's NYC Care. quote:Eligibility quote:Will I need to provide any documents?
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Jun 26, 2022 18:07
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Because the DNC pulled out every possible stop to block him and demonize him when he started getting momentum? To expand on this, Bernie was in the lead for the first few early primaries. But then centrist candidates backed out at the same time and endorsed Biden (purely by coincidence, of course). The DNC then pushed hard with the messaging "Only he (Biden) can win." Shortly after that, there was exit polling done at the next primary vote, where the results found that a majority of boomers that were voting D, agreed more with what Bernie was proposing, but instead voted against their interests and chose Biden, because they believe that only he could win. As an aside, I live in RI, and I never even got a say on which candidate I wanted to run for president, because by that point, Bernie dropped out. Democracy! E: corrected some wordings Velocity Raptor fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 18:09
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theCalamity posted:This is harm shifting and you're deciding who gets hurt. I'm open to options if you have any, provided that they don't just hand TX-28 to the Republicans going into 2024 when control of the House will determine many issues for the entire country. theCalamity posted:Come on, Cisneros started primarying Cuellar back in August of 2021. Fister Roboto posted:But this seems like an extremely clear case where you should definitely not vote for an anti-abortion, pro-gun piece of poo poo. Look, again I worked to primary him. He's awful. But we lost. That doesn't remove the value of participating in the upcoming general election. enahs posted:I have a question for those in the thread who are arguing that we must continue to vote for democrats - no matter who they field - if they are the only option to vote for other than a republican. What would it take for you, personally, to change your mind about this? Is there anything that would be a threshold for which you decide that voting is not working? As someone who would advocate that we still vote, voting isn't working. It's not enough on its own and it never has been. Our way forward is in direct action. But I also still see that voting has some value for the time spent.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:11
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:us discussing what one another literally are is not a discussion that will end well. This is silly. It doesn’t matter what is inside of you. Only your behavior matters. If you perform an insignificant action like voting, all you’ve done is perform an irrelevant action. Politics are something you do, not something you are.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:11
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Because the DNC pulled out every possible stop to block him and demonize him when he started getting momentum? Yep. People really forget how hard they ratfucked Sanders, then turned around and blamed every inability to act on him 'splitting the vote' somehow so they didn't get enough support in Congress. I was in Iowa for the caucuses that year, and remember very clearly how they managed to blow any chance of momentum coming out of it by loving up so badly results couldn't even be tabulated for days.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:12
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https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1541067932586876928?s=20&t=RC68DlLXzpLTBKso-tNVAQ AOC calling for impeachment. If the Dems are going to use every tool at their disposal, this is one of them. Simply asking for donations is not going to cut it
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Jun 26, 2022 18:12
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I AM GRANDO posted:This is silly. It doesn’t matter what is inside of you. Only your behavior matters. If you perform an insignificant action like voting, all you’ve done is perform an irrelevant action. Politics are something you do, not something you are. one of my points, yes. if you, personally, consider yourself a leftist, and then by your actions unconditionally support the existing system, you are not a leftist. you are a liberal who likes to imagine a world where you had a spine.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:14
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Have Some Flowers! posted:There is no pro-rights candidate to pick in the general election - his opponent is in every way worse than he is, and there are many other important issues that I also care about. Harm reduction isn't about one singular issue: it's about a whole range of issues that are also important. You could vote for a third party instead of condoning the dehumanization of women.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:15
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Saw some discussion on why non-voters don't vote. I always thought this 2020 Ipsos poll was interesting.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:17
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:one of my points, yes. if you, personally, consider yourself a leftist, and then by your actions unconditionally support the existing system, you are not a leftist. you are a liberal who likes to imagine a world where you had a spine. Not voting or voting third party is still "supporting the existing system," partner. While you fancy yourself having a good, strong spine because you put your ideology before what's best, you're in fact the jellyfish here because you think you can do nothing and wash your hands of everything. Not how the world works.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:22
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:perfectly understandable answer to the question! if you are being listened to, and are willing to accept all the other awful poo poo the government is doing, then why not offer the government legitimacy in exchange! The whole premise underlying this post is predicated on either the extremely hypothetical possibility of a labor party (or green party or whatever) somehow rising in the US and winning elections, despite no actual plan existing to accomplish any such thing, if we can just stop voting for democrats enough for the party to die out, or the concept of a revolution rising up because... democrats cant afford to put out propaganda to pacify people? I guess?. Framing their decision as "willing to accept" anything because they don't value one of these hypotheticals over not being in jail, is extremely gross. Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 18:23
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Have Some Flowers! posted:Cuellar voted to pass the gun control bill that was signed into law yesterday. Granted it's milquetoast and not enough, but his republican opponent Cassy Garcia would not have done even that. Stop trying to justify your vote for an anti-abortion pro-gun shithead. Vote or don't vote, I can't read your mind, but at least have the decency to not loudly proclaim how eager you are to do it. And I'm not saying you shouldn't participate. I'm only saying you shouldn't vote for Cuellar. Write in Cisneros. Get other people to write in Cisneros. That apparently worked in Buffalo (to defeat a socialist). Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 18:25
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Flying-PCP posted:The whole premise underlying this post is predicated on either the extremely hypothetical possibility of a labor party somehow rising in the US and winning elections, if we can just stop voting for democrats enough for the party to die out, or the concept of a revolution rising up because... democrats cant afford to put out propaganda to pacify people? I guess?. Framing their decision as "willing to accept" anything because they don't value one of these hypotheticals over not being in jail, is extremely gross. It's very much a weird politics of pure vibes. If you get yourself hopped up on internet-sponsored anger, it will overcome any problem, obviously. 1. Stop voting 2. Dems end up limited more strictly to enclaves, or maybe not, whatever, they fail ??? 4. glorious communist party rules the USA wooooo Which is, even if you read how Lenin won, not even close to how things went down, or really any of the others.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:26
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Flying-PCP posted:The whole premise underlying this post is predicated on either the extremely hypothetical possibility of a labor party (or green party or whatever) somehow rising in the US and winning elections, despite no actual plan existing to accomplish any such thing, if we can just stop voting for democrats enough for the party to die out, or the concept of a revolution rising up because... democrats cant afford to put out propaganda to pacify people? I guess?. Framing their decision as "willing to accept" anything because they don't value one of these hypotheticals over not being in jail, is extremely gross. i agree, it's quite unpleasant! is it incorrect?
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Jun 26, 2022 18:29
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Youth Decay posted:More in the Saying The Quiet Part Out Loud department We need to include in basic sex ed the spontaneous abortion rate for pregnancies. Spoiler, it's around 1 in 5.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:30
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Panzeh posted:It's very much a weird politics of pure vibes. If you get yourself hopped up on internet-sponsored anger, it will overcome any problem, obviously. I don't see anyone saying that not voting will lead to communism in the US. If you have seen them, please quote them.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:32
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i agree, it's quite unpleasant! Yes it's incorrect, they don't accept anything, and not voting will never prevent the bad poo poo you're referring to.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:34
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Panzeh posted:It's very much a weird politics of pure vibes. If you get yourself hopped up on internet-sponsored anger, it will overcome any problem, obviously. This is an extremely stupid strawman and it doesn't get any less stupid every you time you post it.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:38
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small butter posted:Not voting or voting third party is still "supporting the existing system," partner. While you fancy yourself having a good, strong spine because you put your ideology before what's best, you're in fact the jellyfish here because you think you can do nothing and wash your hands of everything. Not how the world works. this would be a fantastic condemnation, if I had argued for doing nothing at any point. closest I've come is arguing for not voting if you get nothing in return, and I'm pretty sure there's boardwide approval for 'we should not be operating the Trump concentration camps for children.' can any of the people pragmatically, reluctantly, strong-spinedly accepting that last one as the price of doing business explain what anyone gets out of it, by the way, near as I can tell there's no benefits at all
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Jun 26, 2022 18:39
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small butter posted:Where I live in NYC, living paycheck to paycheck will get you free or near-free healthcare. And the undocumented qualify as well. And Permanent Residents do, too, unlike in Republican states. That is a huge material difference to people's lives. in circumstances where people see their lives positively impacted by Democrats following through on their promises effectively they get more votes, yep
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Jun 26, 2022 18:41
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Flying-PCP posted:Yes it's incorrect, they don't accept anything, and not voting will never prevent the bad poo poo you're referring to. ah, they do not -accept- concentration camps for immigrants, they merely vote for people who support them despite personal misgivings. remember that line from earlier, about how politics is not what you feel in your heart of hearts, it's what you do.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:42
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Still waiting to hear how voting straight ticket dem will lead to the GOP not accomplishing every one of its goals anyway.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:42
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:ah, they do not -accept- concentration camps for immigrants, they merely vote for people who support them despite personal misgivings. Yes, there's no contradiction here, it's touching a screen to make a number go up that will hopefully prevent the election of someone who is going to hurt you, the symbolic import beyond that is strictly in your head (and the heads of many others in varying ways, but nevertheless).
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Jun 26, 2022 18:47
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i agree, it's quite unpleasant! I watched a video from a guy who does conflict resolution & de-escalation all around the world, really difficult areas like Palestine, etc. Here's a quote from this video: https://youtu.be/l7TONauJGfc?t=2742 quote:Institutions can't make you do anything. Is this along the lines of what you're saying? If you accept someone else's power over you, then even if they have a gun to your head, you're still giving them power and giving up your own agency?
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Jun 26, 2022 18:51
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Flying-PCP posted:Yes, there's no contradiction here, it's touching a screen to make a number go up that will hopefully prevent the election of someone who is going to hurt you, the symbolic import beyond that is strictly in your head (and the heads of many others in varying ways, but nevertheless). and if it hurts someone else, well, that's a price they're willing to pay. gently caress you, got mine.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:51
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is pepsi ok posted:Saw some discussion on why non-voters don't vote. I always thought this 2020 Ipsos poll was interesting. That is interesting, mostly to me in the sense that nonvoters are only slightly more cynical than voters, and both groups seem to have broadly correct views on the level of personal representation in American democracy. I'm positive though that if you drill down on the beliefs of an individual median nonvoter it would likely be an shapeless blob of contradictory confusion and resentments
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Jun 26, 2022 18:57
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Fister Roboto posted:but at least have the decency to not loudly proclaim how eager you are to do it. Cuellar's a POS but he's still voted for a lot of things his Republican opponent would not have (based on her alignment with Cruz and Mayra Flores).That is worth something.
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Jun 26, 2022 18:58
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Chemtrailologist posted:If Clinton won in 2016 the same thing would still be happening. And don't forget the taco trucks on every corner and WW3 with Russia
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Jun 26, 2022 18:59
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:and if it hurts someone else, well, that's a price they're willing to pay. You've never provided a convincing argument for how the act of voting democrat hurts anyone, "because the party hurts people" is not sufficient, you'd need to show that some harm would not occur if no one voted for democrats.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:00
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XboxPants posted:I watched a video from a guy who does conflict resolution & de-escalation all around the world, really difficult areas like Palestine, etc. Here's a quote from this video: imagine if, in the story, after the man is humiliated, he announces "it is a good thing i did not take off my clothes." it would either be an act of delusion, or a lie told in the hopes he could recover some dignity from the terrible choice he was forced to make. -that- is the act of giving up your own agency that terrifies and incenses me. people have been forced to make some cruel decisions, by cruel monsters in a place of power. but it can -only- serve those masters to, after they humiliate you, stand up and announce "no actually they did no such thing, anything I have done I have done by my own choice." nobody in this conversation, before 2018, would have said "I will vote for someone who supports concentration camps for children." they would, rightly, have viewed that as an uncrossable red line. and then the line was crossed, and they found themselves forced to accept that unacceptable nightmare in the name of averting something greater. and the experience has been so traumatic that they will not even acknowledge the terrible thing that was done to them.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:06
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Have Some Flowers! posted:You're projecting something into my posts that isn't there, there's no eagerness about it. It's just making the most of the circumstances to help actual people rather than being content with performative internet grandstanding. Write in Cisneros if you actually want to help people. Stop saying that you're helping people by voting for an anti-abortion pro-gun shithead.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:08
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The optimal thing is probably to vote Democrat and then publicly lie about it after the election is over. We also need to start lying on pre-election polls (but not on public forums before the election). Edit: I should be clear that I'm not advocating for anyone to vote for the likes of Manchin or Cuellar specifically, I'm talking about the overall question of 'vote or no vote' (or vote third party which is the same thing until one of them at least gets an actual leader). Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 19:08
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Flying-PCP posted:You've never provided a convincing argument for how the act of voting democrat hurts anyone, "because the party hurts people" is not sufficient, you'd need to show that some harm would not occur if no one voted for democrats. are democrats currently operating concentration camps for immigrants, y/n would democrats not win elections if fewer people voted for them, y/n is a political entity that does not operate concentration camps for immigrants possible, y/n if the answer is yes to all three, then i have shown the act of voting democrat hurts the immigrants in concentration camps. you may well argue it hurts them less than if someone else is operating the concentration camps! you might even be right! but this puts the argument for democrats at "we will operate the ethnic cleansing facilities more humanely," at which point we rapidly circle back around to what you are getting in exchange for legitimizing the system that produces these camps.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:12
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To the people who are choosing not to vote, what outcome do you expect to follow from that choice?
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Jun 26, 2022 19:13
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MadJackal posted:We need to include in basic sex ed the spontaneous abortion rate for pregnancies. Also sounds like getting born is a bad idea and we should do something about it
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Jun 26, 2022 19:16
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Cimber posted:But the moment, maybe as early as 2024, that they control the presidency, the house and 50+1 senators they are going to push massively hard for a total abortion ban in all 50 states. They will sacrifice the filibuster for this. They could have packed the court and killed the filibuster in 2016?
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Jun 26, 2022 19:18
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Ither posted:To the people who are choosing not to vote, what outcome do you expect to follow from that choice? It could be many things. Either they are not concerned with immediate outcomes, believe that inaction is somehow morally different from action, believe in accelerationism, somehow believe that...not voting or protest voting will actually produce change, or are deontologists.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:19
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Fister Roboto posted:Write in Cisneros if you actually want to help people. Stop saying that you're helping people by voting for an anti-abortion pro-gun shithead. I feel bad for poor Tim Kaine. He was Hillary's anti-choice VP pick, and now he's been entirely erased from history. It's hilarious that people go "Cuellar is a drop in the bucket!" when the party was willing to put an anti-abortionist one heartbeat away from the presidency and in the spot to cast tiebreaking votes in the senate. Add in the perennial ratfucking of progressives, Pelosi backing a conservative dem challenger against a SITTING progressive (however mild) in Massachusets against the so-called party rules. The party is only too happy to waste tons of cash on conservative losers like McGrath, starving the left while blaming it for any defeats, and would rather lose than change. I mean, Obama's midterm 'shellacking' was about 50% austerity dems falling on their swords, going "I'll be damned if I give one red cent to the people! We are the real belt-tighteners, not the GOP", and riding that train into sure defeat to Tea Party loons. I mean, when a 'liberal' Supreme Court Justice slobbers all over a verminous gargoyle like clarence Thomas, -after- the Roe leak, because "he was nice to the staff"? No. We are not on the same side and do not want the same things. Also, Kaine failed to even deliver his home state in that election, so masterful politicking there. Any meaningful advance has to be thought out and planned -around- the democratic party. If it makes them join up at some point due to being the opportunistic cowards 95% of them are, fine. But if plan A is going with them, it has failed from the start.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:26
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Ither posted:To the people who are choosing not to vote, what outcome do you expect to follow from that choice? *not vote for centrist dems I’ve already made that clear. If enough people refuse to accept do nothing Dems combined enough people willing to take to the streets with mass action, the liberal section of the ruling class may be scared enough of the consequences that they must compromise with the left and not the fascists
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Jun 26, 2022 19:27
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:are democrats currently operating concentration camps for immigrants, y/n I've seen no evidence that a political entity that doesn't brutalize undocumented immigrants is possible in the US. That poo poo needs to be stopped by force, 'low vote counts' will not help.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:27
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