Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

Cat Machine · # ? Jun 23, 2022 13:43

UnknownMercenary posted:

Did they ever do this with Quake?

Yeah, on the day the new HD release came out.

Adbot · # ? May 15, 2024 15:28

Archer666 · # ? Jun 23, 2022 14:54

The Kins posted:

Time to reinstall.

https://twitter.com/DeusExHub/status/1539580548363993091

Time to blast my favorite remix while dumping all skillpoints into swimming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUwdJXuwSns

The Kins · The Kins Oct 2, 2004

Doom 64 is now on GOG and also on sale for a whopping US$1.24, if that's your preferred software distributor and/or five bucks was too pricy for your blood.

Xenomrph · # ? Jun 23, 2022 16:36

UnknownMercenary posted:

Did they ever do this with Quake?

I think they did on Steam.

The Kins · The Kins Oct 2, 2004

The Steam versions of Doom 1 + 2 and Quake were given the modern releases in a free update (with the original releases still available). The GOG versions have yet to get such updates, but with Bethesda doin' stuff on GOG again lately, who knows what'll happen.

Casimir Radon · # ? Jun 23, 2022 22:14

Xenomrph posted:

I wonder if the people who bought the OG version on GOG get the remaster for free or if we�re SOL

There�s a bunch of Steam reviews slamming it for poorly done graphical upgrades. So I�m going to hold off to see what happens.

site · # ? Jun 23, 2022 22:22

I just looked on gog's store page and it says that that ee owners get the original game free, but owners of the original game have to buy the ee but with a 50% discount

But yeah also I guess it may be not great anyways

Cat Machine · # ? Jun 23, 2022 22:32

It definitely looks kinda jank in places. NPCs you can interact stand out like a sore thumb, which isn�t something I remember being a problem in the original, and certain environments look like they�ve had generic �smoothen� filters applied to them to get rid of artefacts. The subtitles are a really welcome addition though, especially in a game like this that�s pretty dense with info.

Casimir Radon · # ? Jun 23, 2022 22:33

I was waiting on the EE to actually complete the game and it seems like they really dropped the ball here. Oops.

Xenomrph · # ? Jun 23, 2022 23:38

Casimir Radon posted:

There�s a bunch of Steam reviews slamming it for poorly done graphical upgrades. So I�m going to hold off to see what happens.

Welp I bought it (like 5 minutes ago) before reading this, guess I�ll get a refund when I get home.

Copper Vein · # ? Jun 24, 2022 02:27

Cat Machine posted:

It definitely looks kinda jank in places. NPCs you can interact stand out like a sore thumb

That was absolutely a thing in the original release. All the interactive character models were some kind of ~~sprite or sprite pasted on flat polygon with dozens of frames for rotation~~ voxel thing and were very low resolution. And the game didn't have any problem putting those low-res assets really close to the camera where they would lose all readability.

Blade Runner was a visually busy game by design, but those character "models" always stuck out.

I actually thought the characters were normal voxel models until this moment when I fact-checked it. They are chunky and they rotate, so I always figured that were voxels like Commanche and Delta Force.

But apparently they can't be flipped over like a true voxel asset.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17171287

The game has a dancer in the nightclub who animated while on a rotating floor, and she isn't even in the center of the rotating part, so she rotates off-center and moves towards and away from the camera while dancing. I always thought that was some show off poo poo that you wouldn't bother with unless you had animated voxel models!

EDIT: I found a video where one of the guys on the Blade Runner team goes pretty deep into the technology of the game. He calls the models voxels several times, so teenage me was right when I sussed out that the models were voxels with my huge brain.

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuJZO3LOSMD4MoPEm7Ez6W2NLXCnyph-9

From this vid: https://youtu.be/A-v7zZ51g2E

Shorter version of the video:
https://youtu.be/Zkwpa5YPhx8

Copper Vein fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jun 24, 2022

cuc · cuc Nov 25, 2013

Cat Machine posted:

NPCs you can interact stand out like a sore thumb

It sounds like one problem is alpha effect don't apply to voxels in EE (comparison shots taken from Resetera)?

Anyway, here's a video showing some surviving concept art, high-res renders and high-poly character models from Westwood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6saSlDypI

It's a given that the production library has been long lost. Nonetheless, it seems EE would have benefitted more from referencing surviving materials.

High-res render of KIA menu UI (captured from the video) vs EE:

There's an effort to redraw the UI, but it misinterpreted the appearance of the punched paper tape, among other details and aesthetic effects lost.

cuc fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Jun 24, 2022

The Kins · The Kins Oct 2, 2004

The OldUnreal patch for Unreal 1 has received a semi-public release of the long, LONG in development new version.

The titanic changelog is here, but here are the highlights stolen off of a Discord I'm on:

Windows 64-bit version
Improved Linux support, including an ARM version
High DPI UI support for fonts, game menu as well as the HUD.
Rendering improvements, including improvements to the Direct3D9 renderer and a new, modern OpenGL renderer with OpenGL 3/4 support.
Many fixes to OpenAL 3D audio and SwFMODEx audio support.
Tons of engine improvements, bug fixes, and security fixes
Improved server features and server stability
New compiler used for improved support for modern CPUs
New and improved UnrealScript programming functions
Many improvements to the included UnrealEd 2 (Unreal level editor)
Additional languages supported
And still compatible with existing maps, mods and game types.

EDIT: The current Installer-based download made my Windows Defender freak out, so it'd probably be best to wait a day for the non-installer version to be released to be sure.

The Kins fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jun 24, 2022

Twerk from Home · # ? Jun 24, 2022 04:54

The Kins posted:

The OldUnreal patch for Unreal 1 has received a semi-public release of the long, LONG in development new version.

The titanic changelog is here, but here are the highlights stolen off of a Discord I'm on:

Windows 64-bit version

Improved Linux support, including an ARM version

High DPI UI support for fonts, game menu as well as the HUD.

Rendering improvements, including improvements to the Direct3D9 renderer and a new, modern OpenGL renderer with OpenGL 3/4 support.

Many fixes to OpenAL 3D audio and SwFMODEx audio support.

Tons of engine improvements, bug fixes, and security fixes

Improved server features and server stability

New compiler used for improved support for modern CPUs

New and improved UnrealScript programming functions

Many improvements to the included UnrealEd 2 (Unreal level editor)

Additional languages supported

And still compatible with existing maps, mods and game types.

EDIT: The current Installer-based download made my Windows Defender freak out, so it'd probably be best to wait a day for the non-installer version to be released to be sure.

Remind me of the history of this? I think I recall that Unreal 1 source was never released, and a small number of people somehow got it under a restricted license that's letting them fix the game up?

Shadow Hog · # ? Jun 24, 2022 05:05

The Kins posted:

High DPI UI support for fonts, game menu as well as the HUD.

Oh thank God

kirbysuperstar · # ? Jun 24, 2022 05:49

The Kins posted:

High DPI UI support for fonts, game menu as well as the HUD.

SCheeseman · # ? Jun 24, 2022 06:38

It'd be nice if Epic could just release the source to the public under GPL or something already. Not like it isn't already out there unofficially anyway.

david_a · # ? Jun 24, 2022 14:09

SCheeseman posted:

It'd be nice if Epic could just release the source to the public under GPL or something already. Not like it isn't already out there unofficially anyway.

It would cost them money since they would need to audit it to make sure no third-party licensed code remains.

I was going to make a jab at how that wouldn�t benefit the shareholders, but Epic is apparently still private. Good for them.

The Kins · The Kins Oct 2, 2004

david_a posted:

It would cost them money since they would need to audit it to make sure no third-party licensed code remains.

There's the Galaxy Sound System, for one. I believe the OldUnreal patches have replaced it with OpenAL, but it'd still be a concern.

Probably some other stuff to poke at, too, on top of Epic just... not really having any sense of nostalgia, or really pride in their past.

Probably not hugely interested in competing with themselves by kicking it out under GPL, which allows for commercial usage, either.

david_a posted:

I was going to make a jab at how that wouldn�t benefit the shareholders, but Epic is apparently still private. Good for them.

Sweeney still owns a little over half the company, and as such still gets to call the shots.

The Kins · The Kins Oct 2, 2004

New Trenchbroom is out, with Linked Groups for instance creation and other new features and QoL improvements.

https://i.imgur.com/Ctm8PgT.gifv

Shoehead · # ? Jun 24, 2022 20:56

Lol Hrot ep2 genuinely gave me goosebumps

Grimthwacker · # ? Jun 25, 2022 00:13

Having played through System Shock 2 for the second time now, here's my opinion: It's overrated and doesn't hold up today at all.

It's clunky, kludgy, aggravating and frustrating. Combat is awful, and considering how often you're forced into it in the back end, specializing in one type of weapon to get the "best" one in each class is a necessity. The hunt and search puzzles having you comb through each deck aren't great, and made much worse by the enemies respawning at very high frequency, especially the most annoying ones (I got so sick of spiders and Cyber Assassins by the end). Hacking sucks, and forcing you to do it multiple times in the finale, messing with its clunky interface in real time while you get merrily pelted was just bad. Heaven help you if you don't heavily invest in Hacking and Cyber Affinity. I played as carefully as possible, scrimped and saved and save scummed knowing that every resource I had would be used up, and indeed they were. I didn't feel the rush of surviving by the skin of my teeth, I was just relieved it was all over.

Nightdive doesn't need to remaster it - they need to remake it from the ground up as well.

ToxicFrog · # ? Jun 25, 2022 13:58

Grimthwacker posted:

Having played through System Shock 2 for the second time now, here's my opinion: It's overrated and doesn't hold up today at all.

It's clunky, kludgy, aggravating and frustrating. Combat is awful, and considering how often you're forced into it in the back end, specializing in one type of weapon to get the "best" one in each class is a necessity. The hunt and search puzzles having you comb through each deck aren't great, and made much worse by the enemies respawning at very high frequency, especially the most annoying ones (I got so sick of spiders and Cyber Assassins by the end). Hacking sucks, and forcing you to do it multiple times in the finale, messing with its clunky interface in real time while you get merrily pelted was just bad. Heaven help you if you don't heavily invest in Hacking and Cyber Affinity. I played as carefully as possible, scrimped and saved and save scummed knowing that every resource I had would be used up, and indeed they were. I didn't feel the rush of surviving by the skin of my teeth, I was just relieved it was all over.

Nightdive doesn't need to remaster it - they need to remake it from the ground up as well.

I disagree with a lot of this, but not all of this.

- You seem to have a lot more trouble with respawning enemies than most people, even on Impossible, to the point that I wonder if you've run into a weird bug in the ecology system or have a mod installed that fucks with respawn rates.
- I think you've significantly overestimated the importance of some skills. The game is completely winnable psi-only, or using just the tier 1 weapons. The pistol is a good general-purpose weapon, the laspistol has infinite ammo and fucks up bots, and the only thing keeping the grenade launcher from being the best gun in the game is the relative scarcity of ammo; and all of those are T1. Investing heavily in hacking makes things easier but is by no means mandatory; apart from the existence of ICE breakers, everything you need to hack has some other way around it. Even in the final battle it's optional; if you've specced yourself out as a combat wombat rather than a sneaky hacker type (and it sounds like you have), you can just burn through the shields with your favourite gun. A lot of this sounds like you went heavy on making a combat character at the expense of psi and other utility skills and then kept trying to use non-combat solutions.
- I don't think you ever said what difficulty level you were playing on, but if this is your first time playing SS2 and you were playing on Impossible I could definitely see that being pretty frustrating. It makes the margins for error a lot narrower in both general resource management and skill/upgrade selection.

+ The scavenger hunts are annoying, although in my experience less because of respawning enemies and more just because of the difficulty of finding the drat things. IIRC there's four -- Toxin-A on deck 3, the red assassins on deck 4, the pictures on deck 5, and the eggs on the Rick. The assassins can stay but none of the others really add anything and they get worse as you get further in.
+ It definitely goes downhill towards the end; Deck 6 and the Rick are a big step down from 1-5, BOTM is a good idea badly implemented, Citadel Memoria is a cool callback if you've played SS1 but doesn't have any meat to it, and the final boss fight is a wet fart.
+ Hacking sucks rear end and if they couldn't include SS1-style cyberspace sequences they should have just given up and made it a progress bar like in Deus Ex.

Grimthwacker · # ? Jun 25, 2022 14:54

ToxicFrog posted:

I disagree with a lot of this, but not all of this.

- You seem to have a lot more trouble with respawning enemies than most people, even on Impossible, to the point that I wonder if you've run into a weird bug in the ecology system or have a mod installed that fucks with respawn rates.
- I think you've significantly overestimated the importance of some skills. The game is completely winnable psi-only, or using just the tier 1 weapons. The pistol is a good general-purpose weapon, the laspistol has infinite ammo and fucks up bots, and the only thing keeping the grenade launcher from being the best gun in the game is the relative scarcity of ammo; and all of those are T1. Investing heavily in hacking makes things easier but is by no means mandatory; apart from the existence of ICE breakers, everything you need to hack has some other way around it. Even in the final battle it's optional; if you've specced yourself out as a combat wombat rather than a sneaky hacker type (and it sounds like you have), you can just burn through the shields with your favourite gun. A lot of this sounds like you went heavy on making a combat character at the expense of psi and other utility skills and then kept trying to use non-combat solutions.
- I don't think you ever said what difficulty level you were playing on, but if this is your first time playing SS2 and you were playing on Impossible I could definitely see that being pretty frustrating. It makes the margins for error a lot narrower in both general resource management and skill/upgrade selection.

+ The scavenger hunts are annoying, although in my experience less because of respawning enemies and more just because of the difficulty of finding the drat things. IIRC there's four -- Toxin-A on deck 3, the red assassins on deck 4, the pictures on deck 5, and the eggs on the Rick. The assassins can stay but none of the others really add anything and they get worse as you get further in.
+ It definitely goes downhill towards the end; Deck 6 and the Rick are a big step down from 1-5, BOTM is a good idea badly implemented, Citadel Memoria is a cool callback if you've played SS1 but doesn't have any meat to it, and the final boss fight is a wet fart.
+ Hacking sucks rear end and if they couldn't include SS1-style cyberspace sequences they should have just given up and made it a progress bar like in Deus Ex.

Played on Normal, specced all into Standard Weapons, no PSI, only bare minimum Exotic, all mostly because it was so long since my last playthrough that I forgot the game vomits modules at you in the second half and the relative scarcity of Energy and Heavy weapons early on. Hacking and Cyber Affinity were ~level 4-5, didn't remember that they were so important near the end or I would've maxed them out. I maxed out Strength, Agility and Endurance, at the end, mostly for the survivability and extra speed (though the physics are so wonky that that with high Agility you control like a cow on roller skates and can actually get damaged by getting flung by those jump pads in the Body).

I know I sound too hard on the game, mostly due to the frustrating parts; it was a product of its time, there's a lot to like and its influence is so huge. It's just aged pretty poorly in my opinion, and stuff like Prey has spoiled me.

Angryhead · # ? Jun 25, 2022 18:25

https://twitter.com/KinoFabino/status/1540729001903357953
coooool

Mordja · # ? Jun 25, 2022 23:43

Let's Rock is the HMP difficulty setting of D3D, right?

SeANMcBAY · # ? Jun 25, 2022 23:55

Mordja posted:

Let's Rock is the HMP difficulty setting of D3D, right?

Yes but I�d say it�s a bit tougher than HMP in Doom/2.

Johnny Joestar · # ? Jun 26, 2022 00:37

just got finished with episode 2 of HROT. loving wild ride. the dev really knows how to build atmosphere with the maps he makes and it was a fun blend of goofy poo poo, an actual sense of weird dread permeating things, and all-out action with none of it seeming to overstay it's welcome. i can highly recommend the game and i very much look forward to episode 3. just feels really solid to actually play and i love the aesthetics that give you a sense of the overall vibe of what he's going for.

RyokoTK · # ? Jun 26, 2022 01:26

It�s definitely harder, pig cops are brutal.

SeANMcBAY · # ? Jun 26, 2022 01:29

RyokoTK posted:

It�s definitely harder, pig cops are brutal.

And then the enforcers.

Voodoo Cafe · # ? Jun 26, 2022 20:24

FEAR collection is 8$ on Steam

I've played the first and love it. Any of the latter two games worth a shot?

Quantum of Phallus · # ? Jun 26, 2022 20:50

Voodoo Cafe posted:

FEAR collection is 8$ on Steam

I've played the first and love it. Any of the latter two games worth a shot?

They�re pretty awful tbh but worth it at that price. 2 is mega boring. They changed the drat shotgun model!!!

Mordja · # ? Jun 26, 2022 21:16

FEAR 2 is a complete downgrade but still decent. FEAR 3 apologists exist and I won't hear from them

UnknownMercenary · # ? Jun 26, 2022 21:30

The shotgun in Fear 3 is better than the one in Fear 2.

drrockso20 · # ? Jun 26, 2022 21:39

Worth mentioning that the bundle is the only way to legitimately get FEAR 1 or it's expansions on Steam, buying them individually is disabled for some reason

Dog Fat Man Chaser · # ? Jun 26, 2022 21:57

FEAR 3 kicks rear end.

Groovelord Neato · # ? Jun 26, 2022 22:09

Dog Fat Man Chaser posted:

FEAR 3 kicks rear end.

Only cool part is the chair room.

Malcolm Excellent · # ? Jun 26, 2022 22:53

First 3ncounter Assault Recon is a very fun co-op goof em up

ZogrimAteMyHamster · # ? Jun 26, 2022 23:39

F3AR has loving RUN in co-op which is far more fun that it ought to be.

Adbot · # ? May 15, 2024 15:28

catlord · # ? Jun 26, 2022 23:47

UnknownMercenary posted:

The shotgun in Fear 3 is better than the one in Fear 2.

It looks cool, and it can blow people's faces off which looks sick as Hell, but it feels so much weaker. They walk away after getting their faces blown off!

Anyways, I'm definitely a FEAR 2 apologist, and I'll go to bat for FEAR 3 (up until the end of Interval 07), but most generally consider them a downgrade. FEAR 3 is radically different in gameplay and has different developers, with regenerating health and a co-op based campaign.