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some plague rats posted:This seems like nonsense to me. The democrats had 50 years and various supermajorities to codify RvW and they didn't do it. Do you think they would have done so if they won in 2016? Because otherwise we're just having this exact same conversation in three years, or five, or however long it takes this exact scenario to play out, probably with the exact same people in place, the only difference being the year and the degrees of senility on display I agree. But 2016 set the SCOTUS on its course.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:30
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paranoid randroid posted:Well maybe she should have campaigned in loving Wisconsin, but I guess the internet leftists made her ignore it. I’ve run marketing at software companies and I concur that the 2016 Clinton Campaign had some of the worse messaging I’ve ever seen in a campaign. And yeah Wisconsin. Also pissing on the Sanders supporters (Nevada caucus etc) was stupid and ultimately destructive. But as I point out to Clinton fans more Clinton voters flipped to McCain than Sanders supporters flipped to Trump in spite of the dumb stuff they did during the primaries Hell Sanders in the first debate was magnanimous about the email nonsense.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:36
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VideoGameVet posted:I agree. But 2016 set the SCOTUS on its course. Okay? The repeal of RvW has been in the works from the moment it passed. This was just the moment when all the factors finally aligned. My point, which you didn't really engage with at all, is saying "if only things had gone different in 2016, RvW would be safe!" is meaningless when all that would have happened is it would have taken slightly longer to arrive at this same place. The problem isn't that they got the supreme court right now while the filibuster is in place and there aren't the votes in the Senate and we can't pressure manchin and and and, the problem is that there was no plan for this eventuality beyond "hope it never happens" and now it has and nobody seems to have a clue what to do beyond somehow voting harder. It's political malpractice and being told to vote for the same people who've dropped the ball this hard as though they can fix it is dispiriting beyond words.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:41
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Willa Rogers posted:If the thread titled US Midterm Elections has been repurposed to now be the US Midterm Elections & All Other Discussions of Electoralism Past, Present and Future then maybe it needs to made clearer, as well as what parameters merit discussion in that thread rather than this one. It's wearing a few hats admittedly, there was a dedicated electoralism thread that closed due to inactivity though, so at the moment it's the best home for it, and if it catches we can talk about making a new thread for it again B B posted:You've got a mod attacking posters directly, so it'd be cool if y'all take care of that before asking us to move discussion. I'll have it known that when I'm attacking a poster directly I make it well known, this constitutes slander
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Jun 27, 2022 01:41
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As a 90s kid, the prevailing feeling around Roe was (I think) that codifying it was polticially untenable because Dems were terrified of being sadled with a "baby killer bill". I think that's still bullshit but moral cowardice was a typical feature of Clintonites so that seems plausible to me. And now we reap the rewards.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:42
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e: forgot which forum I was posting in
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Jun 27, 2022 01:43
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some plague rats posted:We're not talking about the midterms though, Fritz. The RvW repeal is happening right now, is it not a current event? Yeah can someone clarify this please, I’d like to make fun of AOC’s tweets today and I’m not sure where to do it.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:49
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VideoGameVet posted:I’ve run marketing at software companies and I concur that the 2016 Clinton Campaign had some of the Dems suck big time, but what the gently caress do we do about non Fox/regressive media machines that just air loving horseshit like this. butter emails, then silence for the 4 years where Donnie kids are all using Trump company email address. Hell RIGHT now, NYC mayor Rudy got slapped on the back at shopright and apparent thats him getting nuked and vaporized.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:56
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Mendrian posted:As a 90s kid, the prevailing feeling around Roe was (I think) that codifying it was polticially untenable because Dems were terrified of being sadled with a "baby killer bill". I think that's still bullshit but moral cowardice was a typical feature of Clintonites so that seems plausible to me. And now we reap the rewards. If nothing else it's an evergreen statement that plenty of dem leadership are terrified of doing something that would make republicans say the same things they're already saying.
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Jun 27, 2022 01:58
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Yes. The right played a long game with RvW and the Democrats didn’t take the steps to protect it. Obama himself said that codifying it into federal law was “not a legislative priority.” And I hate to say this but Democrats we’re happy to use it to fund raise. My original point is that this court decision was possible because of the 2016 election but that doesn’t excuse the Democrats not firewalling this into law.
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Jun 27, 2022 02:02
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PhazonLink posted:Dems suck big time, but what the gently caress do we do about non Fox/regressive media machines that just air loving horseshit like this. butter emails, then silence for the 4 years where Donnie kids are all using Trump company email address. The emails thing is fox straight up doing politics. They saw a way to make the enemy look bad and used it to the max, why on earth would they do the same to their own side? That would be ridiculous. I think it's important to remember that absolutely nobody cares about hypocrisy. It's not an issue that actually moves people, and if you find yourself getting mad about it you need to take a breath and try to channel that energy elsewhere because it's an absolute deadend that will accomplish nothing besides making you look like a whiner. The sooner we can shift left-of-center discourse away from the daily show mold of pointing out conservatives lying and towards something actually useful the better off we'll be
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Jun 27, 2022 02:04
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Join us in the midterms thread, we all have much to say about the value of a vote
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Jun 27, 2022 02:13
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Well better do nothing then. Lol theCalamity posted:Alright, so what can be done if the Democrats do not get enough Senators on board to do those things? I don't understand how either of these posts are about electoralism. They're both about what the Democratic legislators can or can not do. Does "electoralism" cover elected officials even outside of elections?
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Jun 27, 2022 03:19
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Have the Democrats announced their plans to protect gay marriage, consensual sex, and contraception yet? The Supreme Court announced that those are on the chopping block, has any Democratic figure talked about what they will do before those decisions come down?
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Jun 27, 2022 03:21
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Gripweed posted:Have the Democrats announced their plans to protect gay marriage, consensual sex, and contraception yet? The Supreme Court announced that those are on the chopping block, has any Democratic figure talked about what they will do before those decisions come down? they haven't, but I bet it's primo fundraising territory
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Jun 27, 2022 03:24
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alf_pogs posted:they haven't, but I bet it's primo fundraising territory This really seems like an unprecedented moment in American politics. The opposition party is literally calling their shots. First with the leaked decision, now with Thomas's concurrence, they are straight up saying the massively unpopular policies they will enact. And the party nominally in power, nominally steadfastly opposed to those policies, is doing nothing about it.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:29
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The SCOTUS decision was only 'called shot' if you believe a conservative staffer leaked the draft. I know that's not the main point of the post, but also this isn't twitter and I think it's good for us to all strive for factual accuracy here.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:46
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Flying-PCP posted:The SCOTUS decision was only 'called shot' if you believe a conservative staffer leaked the draft. I know that's not the main point of the post, but also this isn't twitter and I think it's good for us to all strive for factual accuracy here. It's extremely Democrat to refuse to do anything about something because the information wasn't released properly.
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Jun 27, 2022 03:51
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Flying-PCP posted:The SCOTUS decision was only 'called shot' if you believe a conservative staffer leaked the draft. I know that's not the main point of the post, but also this isn't twitter and I think it's good for us to all strive for factual accuracy here. What? I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make here
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Jun 27, 2022 03:58
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some plague rats posted:What? I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make here They didn't "straight up say" they were about to overturn Roe v Wade, someone on the inside provided that information. I honestly don't care if you think that's important or not, people (particularly in a space like this where there's ostensibly more attempt at actual communication beyond just signal boosting our own opinions) need to say what happened, not what makes their posts flow better. Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 04:03
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Flying-PCP posted:They didn't "straight up say" they were about to overturn Roe v Wade, someone on the inside provided that information. I honestly don't care if you think that's important or not, people (particularly in a space like this where there's ostensibly more attempt at actual communication beyond just signal boosting our own opinions) need to say what happened, not what makes their posts flow better. Okay I know we all use that joke about technically correct being the best kind of correct but this is just absurd
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Jun 27, 2022 04:07
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Flying-PCP posted:The SCOTUS decision was only 'called shot' if you believe a conservative staffer leaked the draft. I know that's not the main point of the post, but also this isn't twitter and I think it's good for us to all strive for factual accuracy here. The “called shot” is referring to the concurrence that casts doubt on various other decisions
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Jun 27, 2022 04:19
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Gripweed posted:I don't understand how either of these posts are about electoralism. They're both about what the Democratic legislators can or can not do. Does "electoralism" cover elected officials even outside of elections? Indeed. I suppose it's because electoralism, or rather its absence, is being used as some sort of synecdoche for illegal or outside-the-norm actions by government officials. Not because of any equivalency between that and direct action, but because both are advocated by the same groups and ideologies, or because both are outside of the law. But either way it does appear to be imprecise language. As for "electoralism chat" being forbidden in this thread, I'm hesitant to do that because anything that's directly relevant to news being posted ought to be fair game. Having limits on how you can discuss the matter of the thread is, well, not productive to discussion. On the other hand, the value, or lack thereof, of electoralism is something that's already been debated at length in this thread, and it often feels like users are just picking scabs when it comes to the topic rather than trying earnestly to learn something from each other. So all in all I would prefer just to enforce the rules as written, ensuring that arguments which happen over electoralism involve fresh material, and are at least tangentially related to the thread topic. Which in many cases would be talking in specific terms about what actions could be taken as a reaction to whatever the news is, and then simply determining whether they're illegal, legal, or questionably legal, and leaving it at that.
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Jun 27, 2022 04:23
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Koos Group posted:Indeed. I suppose it's because electoralism, or rather its absence, is being used as some sort of synecdoche for illegal or outside-the-norm actions by government officials. Not because of any equivalency between that and direct action, but because both are advocated by the same groups and ideologies, or because both are outside of the law. But either way it does appear to be imprecise language. So uh, if this thread isn’t for discussing the single largest current event in the last 50 years of US history and the ramifications to the party that is currently in power, what is this thread for?
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Jun 27, 2022 06:20
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Flying-PCP posted:The SCOTUS decision was only 'called shot' if you believe a conservative staffer leaked the draft. I know that's not the main point of the post, but also this isn't twitter and I think it's good for us to all strive for factual accuracy here. I think you're dwelling on the metaphor a little too deeply, I think OP was just saying that the Dems knew what the SCOTUS was going to do in advance and did nothing to stop them, not that the conservatives were literally the ones to make the announcement.
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Jun 27, 2022 06:31
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FlapYoJacks posted:So uh, if this thread isn’t for discussing the single largest current event in the last 50 years of US history and the ramifications to the party that is currently in power, what is this thread for? I'm afraid there may be a misunderstanding. I don't think it ought not to be discussed here. Though you can also discuss it in the SCOTUS thread which may have more a focus on the court's history and get more in-depth.
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Jun 27, 2022 06:43
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Koos Group posted:I'm afraid there may be a misunderstanding. I don't think it ought not to be discussed here. Though you can also discuss it in the SCOTUS thread which may have more a focus on the court's history and get more in-depth. Oh good, I saw the probes on the last page and was confused. I’m glad they were reversed! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2022 07:02
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A big flaming stink posted:leftists, at least ones who voted for bernie, voted for hillary in huge loving numbers, though. Yeah, because at the time it seemed like the best way to keep Trump out of power. Unfortunately, assuming you've won and not campaigning in states you need the electoral votes from to win doesn't do poo poo on that front.
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Jun 27, 2022 08:53
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It's amazing how Hillary's arrogance makes Trump look humble.
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Jun 27, 2022 08:56
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If I were to sum up the modern Democratic party in a single word, it would be 'hubris'.
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Jun 27, 2022 09:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's amazing how Hillary's arrogance makes Trump look humble. The DNC got gutted by Hilldog back in 2016. The thing I hated about the GOP and Obama was they did nothing but bitch and moan. What ever obama did was wrong. But the GOP never really had a position beyond obama is bad and if he is for it we re against it. rather than campaigning on their positions/issues etc Then I watched the same moaning with trump. and a campaign on anyone but trump. And here we loving are. The dems fundraised and campaigned on roe for decades but drat for some reason not putting it into federal law just couldnt be done.
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Jun 27, 2022 11:10
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e: never mind
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Jun 27, 2022 12:10
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's amazing how Hillary's arrogance makes Trump look humble. Really? Judging from their reactions on lost elections, I would say that one of them is bit more arrogant about deserving to win than other. Same applies to their supporters too, by the way.
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Jun 27, 2022 12:21
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okay One took a walk, cried, and wrote a book when she lost. One did a coup and then built a miniature oval office on his estate so he could keep pretending when he lost. They are not the same. *************************** Furthermore, I'm completely convinced that most of the hate towards Hillary Clinton is because the republicans never got Bill. Fox News did such a great job programming the right that the left got a similar response to her. Just the fact that most of the people here get a Dreyfus' Clouseau response to her despite not being in the public eye for years only confirms it. *************************** and never forget, despite the problems in her campaign, Comey's announcement and betrayal of the public office is how Trump got into office. The repeal of Row v Wade is Comey's legacy. Never let him forget it.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:05
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Gripweed posted:Have the Democrats announced their plans to protect gay marriage, consensual sex, and contraception yet? The Supreme Court announced that those are on the chopping block, has any Democratic figure talked about what they will do before those decisions come down? You can 100% absolutely be sure that Pelosi, Schumer and the rest of the congressional scooby gang are super angry and pumped about these issues, maybe even as much as they were about codifying Roe vs Wade...but you must understand, that right now just isn't the appropriate time to really act on them, too busy standing on the capitol steps singing and all that. Also, McConnell is a really a good man who can be worked with to reach a sensible bipartisan solution, so that helps. But drat, they're angry about it all! So angry they'll support another conservative Dem who will probably slip and vocally support gay marriage or interracial marriage becoming a states' issue. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Jun 27, 2022 |
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Jun 27, 2022 13:08
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:They’re actively enabling the GOP by blocking and preventing every legal avenue to meaningfully challenging the GOPs strategy. They are effectively in league with the GOP because both groups represent capital. Refusing to support them means they will be less able to block and suppress progressives.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:37
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One of them spend multiple decades expecting they were the heir apparent to the point where they spent a campaign expecting an instant victory, the other spend decades building a cult of personality and campaigning constantly to get every single piece of exposure they possibly could.
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Jun 27, 2022 13:40
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shades of eternity posted:okay Yeah one handled it like the perennial loser she is, and the other actually fought to stay in power (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 27, 2022 13:49
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Automata 10 Pack posted:The GOP are actively dismantling democracy. You won’t be able to vote anybody in the next time the GOP take control. do the democrats plan to do anything to prevent this, or does your plan require that you win every election from now until the end of America as a concept
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Jun 27, 2022 13:52
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:do the democrats plan to do anything to prevent this, or does your plan require that you win every election from now until the end of America as a concept
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Jun 27, 2022 13:53
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