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Toshimo posted:Do your tables just not play any creature removal? How do you deal with all the other, more dangerous creatures? I'm pretty sure "until someone can answer it" implies that creature removal is that answer, but it's not always available, whether that's because of mana or because of those cards not being in anyone's hand yet.
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Jun 26, 2022 19:52
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Serf posted:I went with the cheaper option of Commander lol. lmao. Yeah I know casual commander is vastly cheaper than modern it's just deeply amusing to me that you said this of a format with individual cards more expensive than entire modern decks. Glad you're one of us now, welcome to the club!
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Jun 27, 2022 05:41
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I half joke that it's cheaper for me to play Commander then it is too play modern or standard due to my age and how long I have been playing the game. I do miss modern and standard but drat does that get expensive over time.
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Jun 27, 2022 11:27
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Goad newbie question - if creatures are goaded, am I correct in thinking that they could not attack my Planeswalkers as well? Planeswalkers rules are still very  to me since I think I've still only ever owned single digits of them, all within the past year, lol.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:22
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Goad rules text: Until your next turn, those creatures attack each combat if able and attack a player other than you if able. Note that they have to attack A PLAYER, so you're actually making it so no planeswalkers can be attacked when goading.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:26
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Aranan posted:Goad rules text: Until your next turn, those creatures attack each combat if able and attack a player other than you if able.  Excellent, thank you for that clarification! So planeswalkers are their own card type, yeah? I think the 'being able to declare attackers at them' thing is what's tripping me up.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:34
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The way it works is weird. You attack the player, but then you declare attacks against that player's Planeswalker. Since you can't attack the player (unless they're the last one standing) you can't attack a PW they control.
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Jun 27, 2022 16:41
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I just released a video on Baeloth Barrityl where I put together a modular deck with 3 different backgrounds (Noble Heritage, Criminal Past, Raised by Giants) I’ve been playing it on stream and it’s pretty fun. Video is here: https://youtu.be/E1fv9Sg4ww0
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Jun 27, 2022 17:24
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Johnny Truant posted:
It's weird artifacting from when they were first introduced since only things that could target a player could target a planeswalker.
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Jun 27, 2022 17:27
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^^^ thanks, as well!Heath posted:The way it works is weird. You attack the player, but then you declare attacks against that player's Planeswalker. Since you can't attack the player (unless they're the last one standing) you can't attack a PW they control. Thanks for the breakdown, that clears up the biggest planeswalker confusion I had!
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Jun 27, 2022 17:27
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Balon posted:I just released a video on Baeloth Barrityl where I put together a modular deck with 3 different backgrounds (Noble Heritage, Criminal Past, Raised by Giants) Yes, but have you considered that people have removal on hand sometimes?
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Jun 27, 2022 17:27
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Balon posted:I just released a video on Baeloth Barrityl where I put together a modular deck with 3 different backgrounds (Noble Heritage, Criminal Past, Raised by Giants) Today I learned you could follow people on Moxfield, and you're the first person I'm following! 
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Jun 27, 2022 17:45
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Heath posted:The way it works is weird. You attack the player, but then you declare attacks against that player's Planeswalker. Since you can't attack the player (unless they're the last one standing) you can't attack a PW they control. I don't believe this is accurate from reading the comprehensive rules. You used to do something similar to that when casting direct damage spells, but that is no longer the case. The section of the rules covering declaring attackers: 508.1a The active player chooses which creatures that they control, if any, will attack. The chosen creatures must be untapped, and each one must either have haste or have been controlled by the active player continuously since the turn began. 508.1b If the defending player controls any planeswalkers, or the game allows the active player to attack multiple other players, the active player announces which player or planeswalker each of the chosen creatures is attacking. It never mentions redirecting attacks -- you're just choosing attacking creatures, then choosing where they go.
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Jun 27, 2022 20:06
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In a selesnya deck, would you run knight of the white orchid and loyal warhound if you're going to run the two mana land-ramp sorceries (farseek, nature's lore, into the north, three visits, rampant growth)? or is it one or the other, and would you rather run the sorceries or the creatures, if so?
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Jun 27, 2022 20:08
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Actually it's kind of a null issue. Goad states that the creature must attack, and must attack a player other than the goad effects owner. A goaded creatures can't target any planeswalker unless there are only two players left.
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Jun 27, 2022 20:11
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N-N-N-NINE BREAKER posted:In a selesnya deck, would you run knight of the white orchid and loyal warhound if you're going to run the two mana land-ramp sorceries (farseek, nature's lore, into the north, three visits, rampant growth)? or is it one or the other, and would you rather run the sorceries or the creatures, if so? I don't think you run those two creatures 'cause they're just bears if you're ever ahead on land (and you're presumably running them for the ramp effect), while the sorceries will always do what you intend for them to do.
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Jun 27, 2022 20:12
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N-N-N-NINE BREAKER posted:In a selesnya deck, would you run knight of the white orchid and loyal warhound if you're going to run the two mana land-ramp sorceries (farseek, nature's lore, into the north, three visits, rampant growth)? or is it one or the other, and would you rather run the sorceries or the creatures, if so? You would rather run all the green mana dorks (even Boreal Druid) before you'd run the white "ramp" creatures.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:03
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Arbor Elf, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise, Boreal Druid, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves are all at 1 MV and better than anything white has. You'd run some of the better 2 MV green ones over those, too such as Devoted Druid and Priest of Titania. Some of the 2 MV land sorceries aren't bad. I like Nature's Lore and Three Visits more than the others because they're not putting the land into play tapped. Rampant Growth only hits basics *and* puts into play tapped so it's a pass for me.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:10
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N-N-N-NINE BREAKER posted:In a selesnya deck, would you run knight of the white orchid and loyal warhound if you're going to run the two mana land-ramp sorceries (farseek, nature's lore, into the north, three visits, rampant growth)? or is it one or the other, and would you rather run the sorceries or the creatures, if so? Nature's Lore and Three Visits can both fetch the various Plains Forest cards. If you want to ramp white Mana specifically, I'd run Tithe since it's instant speed and can also fetch the Plains Forests, or Gift of Estates since it can grab multiple lands if Tithe is out of your budget. It's a bit risky since it's conditional on someone having more lands than you.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:19
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Tithe isn't strictly ramp, though, since it puts the lands in your hand.
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Jun 27, 2022 22:28
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Batterypowered7 posted:Tithe isn't strictly ramp, though, since it puts the lands in your hand. I was thinking one of them got put to the battlefield for some reason
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Jun 27, 2022 23:16
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Johnny Truant posted:Today I learned you could follow people on Moxfield, and you're the first person I'm following! Thanks, boo 
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Jun 28, 2022 02:40
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The Shortest Path posted:lol. lmao. You absolutely have a point. Last weekend a guy dropped an Imperial Seal on turn 1, presumably just to flex? Some people have a lot more extra cash than me apparently. I suppose I could put together a crappy Modern deck for not that much money (I am building a Boros burn deck right now, but that's a longer-term project), but I'm not the most competitive person. I kinda wanted a format where I could chill and get to know people and so far Commander has provided that. I dropped like $140 on all the Baldur's Gate precons and they've been fun enough for the past month, and I think that's a decent return on my investment. I was happy to learn that the folks I play with are okay with proxies in "League" games if you already own a copy of the card. As someone who discovered copies of Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe in my collection, that makes me happy. I was dreading putting them into appropriate decks and then having to constantly dig them out and swap them around.
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Jun 28, 2022 14:42
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Serf posted:You absolutely have a point. Last weekend a guy dropped an Imperial Seal on turn 1, presumably just to flex? I don't think immediately going to "he must be trying to flex" is a great take. It's probably just the best turn 1 play they had. If you don't want to play against decks that have strong turn 1 plays, that's something to bring up pregame and try to find other people who want to play at that level.
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Jun 28, 2022 17:02
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* plays a Guru basic land on turn 1 * "I spare no expense for my decks. Hope that doesn't intimidate you all."
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Jun 28, 2022 17:06
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Batterypowered7 posted:* plays a Guru basic land on turn 1 * "I spare no expense for my decks. Hope that doesn't intimidate you all." If you have the cash to blow and you choose to spend it on a sick basic land instead of some annoying bullshit reserved list card or an Imperial Seal -- infinite respect
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Jun 28, 2022 17:08
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Heath posted:If you have the cash to blow and you choose to spend it on a sick basic land instead of some annoying bullshit reserved list card or an Imperial Seal -- infinite respect * casts an Imperial Seal with the one black mana from his Guru Swamp *
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Jun 28, 2022 17:11
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Batterypowered7 posted:* casts an Imperial Seal with the one black mana from his Guru Swamp * *draws the foil Gaea's Cradle after using Imperial Seal to find it* 
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Jun 28, 2022 17:22
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Aranan posted:I don't think immediately going to "he must be trying to flex" is a great take. It's probably just the best turn 1 play they had. If you don't want to play against decks that have strong turn 1 plays, that's something to bring up pregame and try to find other people who want to play at that level. The actual play is mostly fine, I wouldn't have even known Imperial Seal was a $1000 card if not for it being brought up because of Double Masters. Really it's just a worse Vampiric Tutor so I don't see the point of pulling it out unless you're just showing off. This led into a turn 2 Emrakul from the same player using some weird combo. It might bother me if he had won, but in the end both of us were only able to play kingmaker to help the Ur-Dragon player win the game. From what I can tell, the "League" games that you pay $2 to play in have some sort of points and reward system at the end of the season where you can win stuff, so people play poo poo that's way out of my league. In game 2 some other guy used a Chatterfang deck that went infinite on like turn 7. It mostly amounted to the guy sitting there and mumbling a bunch of math and then everyone else nodding and agreeing that the game was over (this same player brought an Azorius control deck 3 weeks ago that caused us to have a 2 1/2 hour game for some ungodly reason). Even in the "casual" games after that the decks were very strong and expensive from what I could tell. My goal with Magic isn't winning, it's to hang out and have a good time. I like it when games have lots of interaction and turns go relatively quickly. For the most part I'm getting what I want, no complaints on the entertainment. As for finding people who want to play with less fine-tuned decks, I live in a rural area and the pickings are slim. At the moment there's more people playing Flesh and Blood, Yugioh and Cardfight Vanguard (I've looked but I'm not interested in those games) so I have to take what I can get. There is one other budget player and we've gotten in some games of Pauper before Commander and it's been plenty fun using my old Dimir Ninjas deck with some recent upgrades.
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Jun 28, 2022 17:55
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Serf posted:The actual play is mostly fine, I wouldn't have even known Imperial Seal was a $1000 card if not for it being brought up because of Double Masters. Really it's just a worse Vampiric Tutor so I don't see the point of pulling it out unless you're just showing off. This led into a turn 2 Emrakul from the same player using some weird combo. It might bother me if he had won, but in the end both of us were only able to play kingmaker to help the Ur-Dragon player win the game. Oh boy, you just triggered like three to five people in this thread.
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Jun 28, 2022 18:35
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I can't imagine being mad about someone playing an "expensive" card. I don't have the space in my head to get worked up over that. Want to be mad at WotC for not doing needed reprints? Go nuts. Want to be mad about the Reserved List? Do your thing. Getting mad at someone for playing maybe the 3rd best tutor? LMAO. Part of the problem is that content creators figured out how to weaponize the bullshit duo of price nostalgia and "I can tell you how to make a cheap deck" while hiding the real fact that their "budget decks" are often so absolute garbage, and that frankly poo poo Just Costs More in 2022 (and has for years). This introduced this weird, obviously false narrative that commander was cheap to get into because you could cobble together a playable 100-card singleton deck with draft leavings that would somehow hold its own in a Legacy-power-level format. It wasn't ever the case and it sure isn't now that people have been refining poo poo online for a decade and even people just popping into the format are generally well-informed enough to know that "Do nothing for 7 turns and drop a dragon" isn't viable. Not everyone needs to play cEDH. Not everyone needs to drop $5k on a deck. But, what everyone needs to do is start finding ways to pressure WotC into doing better. Whether it's just passing on bad products, or contacting them directly, or supporting the creators who are actually trying to fight this, do that instead of being mad at a dude for having a nice card (or maybe even a nice proxy, you don't know).
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Jun 28, 2022 19:52
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I can promise you that most people aren't playing expensive cards just to flex. Please don't project like that. Yes, Imperial Seal is a worse Vamp Tutor. It's also a second copy of that effect, which is where its value lies. If it wasn't such a scarce card, it wouldn't command that price at all.
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Jun 28, 2022 19:59
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Batterypowered7 posted:Oh boy, you just triggered like three to five people in this thread. When it comes to the overall experience of playing Magic, there are at least 3 different goals I'm considering, so I don't find that it makes sense to talk about a singular goal. I have found the most enjoyable way for me to play commander is: -build decks within the power range of my group, with a variety of ways to win -play each game trying to win to the best of my ability -approach each evening of playing magic with the goal of having fun with my friends Only 1.5 of those goals are "try to win", but in my experience those are the two that count. Leave win cons out of your deck and you increase the chance of grindy games that get boring. Playing suboptimally on purpose is just patronising to your friends. If you have the win, go for it and if it feels unsatisfactory then change your deck. Approach each session expecting to lose more than you win because that's just how it goes in a group playing at the same power level.
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Jun 28, 2022 20:53
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Framboise posted:I can promise you that most people aren't playing expensive cards just to flex. Please don't project like that. Literally, all I do in every game at an LGS is mulligan into a tutor for a timetwister. :flex:
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Jun 28, 2022 21:01
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Well, also, you're playing in a group of probably 4 people and only one of them can win. All else being equal you are statistically likely to lose 75% of the time
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Jun 28, 2022 21:01
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Wincons? Heh. My only DRAWcon is Celestial Convergence and a way to make everyone's life totals the same. E:  This should be good. E2: And by good I mean bad. Batterypowered7 fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 28, 2022 21:12
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Batterypowered7 posted:Oh boy, you just triggered like three to five people in this thread. I thought this was a joke, but drat.
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Jun 29, 2022 15:16
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i love when people suggest rules changes for commander like "Can you make it so the rules work completely different?" or "Can you make it so this card says something totally different than what it says?" like, im sorry, but if you look at this Unmake or Kitchen Finks and try to convince me those aren't both white cards and should go into your Grist Commander deck... i mean, no, they're white cards, i can see them!
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Jun 29, 2022 15:22
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Bust Rodd posted:i love when people suggest rules changes for commander like "Can you make it so the rules work completely different?" or "Can you make it so this card says something totally different than what it says?" Lol, are you talking about the dude asking about hybrid mana?
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Jun 29, 2022 15:27
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yeah, people advocating for offcolor hybrids in their deck are on a fundamentally different plane of existence from me and i dont wanna play games with them. Same with "poison counters should be changed" babies.
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Jun 29, 2022 15:29
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