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Mendrian posted:The next good president needs to be prepared to do something legally questionable and bad for their career to protect the rights of the people in this country because we are rapidly reaching the point where good political leaders need to be revolutionaries. The GOP is going ape poo poo on every position at all levels of government that said no to the half baked coup. "Legally" removing their power, stuffing them to the gills with hard core ideologues, death threats to the people that remain. They learned the lessons from their dry run, know what to work on, and haven't stopped for years.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:42
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bird food bathtub posted:Love the optimism, but don't necessarily share it. Personal opinion is that we've had the last thing we will have for a very long time that resembled what the US has historically called a presidential election. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2022 17:43
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:In the primary (except for her brief two week surge up to 15-20% in the polls), her support came primarily from black women with above average education between the ages of 25 - 50. So, young-ish to middle-aged black women with some college or a college degree.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:44
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bird food bathtub posted:Love the optimism, but don't necessarily share it. Personal opinion is that we've had the last thing we will have for a very long time that resembled what the US has historically called a presidential election. Pelosi wanted a strong Republican party and boy is she getting her wish.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:44
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Kraftwerk posted:I'm of the opinion that you need a person like Huey Long who is willing to do morally questionable things in the advancement of a leftist ideology. I do not think politics is fair or moral and is strictly about power at any costs and thus requires a degree of corruption and strong personalities to carry the whole movement forward. There never would've been a Bolshevik takeover of Russia without Lenin's single-minded and relentless pursuit of political power. We need a guy like that here, who has the salesmanship skills to steal many of the people we ideologically despise right here in this thread. Because the ancestors of those same people were out there agitating for labor rights and new deal era policies during the depression and then we lost them in the 1970s to Reagan. Unfortunately the reason we lost a lot of 'those people' was racism, same reason we're losing them now. (just for fun check out where Reagan made his announcement to run for President in 1979) Oracle fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 17:48
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JT Jag posted:Meanwhile, Democratic leadership seems to be even more invested in their end-of-history neoliberal bullshit than ever before, to the point that they just aren't taking any action at all and think that, over time, things will just get better on their own, because American Democracy is the Greatest System on Earth and can't possibly be suborned To wit https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-unlikely-meet-bold-democrat-demands-after-abortion-ruling-sources-2022-06-29/ quote:More than 30 Senate Democrats signed a letter to Biden, urging him to 'fight back," take "bold action" and "lead a national response to this devastating decision" after the court overturned the right to abortion. Weird that the guy who wanted more restrictions on Roe for most of his career and always supported expanding the Hyde amendment doesn't plan to do anything of consequence.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:50
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How do you get much more polarized short of open warfare, dude. COME ON.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:54
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Somewhere in Joe Biden's mush brain he is convinced that if he figures out just the right thing to say, all his old Republican Senate friends will come and give him a hug and say "Joe, you're right, we shouldn't be so extreme, let's pass some trivial post office renamings together like the old days" and he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize that
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Jun 29, 2022 17:56
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Meatball posted:I cant get in becauae of the paywall - Are there policy objectives in the article? Anyone who talks like that strictly speaks in platitudes, because "moderate" policies always seem to be "Republican policies, but with less visible racism". It doesn't appear to be about policy at all - it's entirely about supporting centrist candidates, not centrist policies. Their one endorsed candidate, a Democrat, is portraying it as basically a NeverTrump Republican party dressed up with the usual bipartisanship platitudes. https://twitter.com/Malinowski/status/1534269849635016705 Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Long wasn't assassinated by the U.S. government. He was shot in public by the son of a rival politician whose district he just gerrymandered out of existence a earlier that day. If anything, Long perfectly demonstrated the downside of merciless, authoritarian power-at-any-cost politics.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:57
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https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1542172959925850114?s=21&t=uPiyRyerNa8cZwDpwXterA Sanders continues to distance himself from the party line by showing them what fighting for people would look like when the rest of the party seems to have gone into a protective crouch.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:58
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Kalli posted:To wit This is just a complete abdication of duty. Either his political instincts are completely poo poo or this is what he wanted or both. At any rate, it's bad for us.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:59
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selec posted:https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1542172959925850114?s=21&t=uPiyRyerNa8cZwDpwXterA there's a joke somewhere about bernie being the only person who remembers pete is actually part of the administration
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Jun 29, 2022 18:00
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A big flaming stink posted:there's a joke somewhere about bernie being the only person who remembers pete is actually part of the administration I wonder if he's still pissy about Pete dropping out. I mean his supporters would never have gone Bernie anyway they were a bunch of 2nd wave feminists over 55 who liked that he was one of those nice clean cut non-threatening gays that made them feel all hip and progressive to support and the older technocrat crowd who leaned more conservative but fiscally, not socially.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:04
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Kalli posted:To wit Maintaining the status quo isn't radical. The court is taking radical actions. If that's really what they're worried about that's terrifying.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:05
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Gumball Gumption posted:Maintaining the status quo isn't radical. The court is taking radical actions. If that's really what they're worried about that's terrifying.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:09
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Yinlock posted:Pelosi wanted a strong Republican party and boy is she getting her wish. That's not what Pelosi meant by a strong Republican party. When she used the term, she was contrasting it with the party now, and she meant that it should be a party that embraces a variety of views and tries to actively and constructively debate policy, unlike the party now, which is centered around loyalty to Trump, demands ideological conformity, and is in the hands of conspiracy theorists and lickspittles.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:10
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Epicurius posted:That's not what Pelosi meant by a strong Republican party. When she used the term, she was contrasting it with the party now, and she meant that it should be a party that embraces a variety of views and tries to actively and constructively debate policy, unlike the party now, which is centered around loyalty to Trump, demands ideological conformity, and is in the hands of conspiracy theorists and lickspittles.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:10
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JT Jag posted:Ah, so... the Eisenhower administration. I guess Republicans aren't the only ones yearning for the good old days of the 50s. I mean, the Republicans in the Eisenhower administration were better than the Republicans are now, at least.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:12
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Epicurius posted:That's not what Pelosi meant by a strong Republican party. When she used the term, she was contrasting it with the party now, and she meant that it should be a party that embraces a variety of views and tries to actively and constructively debate policy, unlike the party now, which is centered around loyalty to Trump, demands ideological conformity, and is in the hands of conspiracy theorists and lickspittles. That party never existed. The people they hold up as examples of that party like Liz Cheney just showed their true face. It's not a good thing that Pelosi believes noble myths about the people who went to strip civil rights.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:13
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JT Jag posted:The neoliberal doctrine Dem leadership adheres to makes it very clear that, because American Democracy Is The Greatest System In The World, an entire branch of government can't possibly be suborned by ideologues. Even if it's staring them directly in the face. Yeah. One thing the Republicans have been very successful about since the Tea Party is polarizing the very idea of resistance and conflict. So the policies being maintained are somehow no longer of importance to the Dems, strong political action of any sort becomes inherently 'radical' even if that strong political action is 'trying to enshrine a 50 year old statute'.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:14
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Kalli posted:To wit Why are you mad? The quote says that Biden is taking a number of executive actions that all look like something of consequence. While it writes that "sources inside and outside the White House" state that he's concerned about "more radical actions", neither you nor the article say what kind of radical actions you expect him to take that he's not taking. Honestly, the opening of the article is pretty sloppy in general, and makes some pretty bizarre assertions. For example, it claims (unsourced) that "The White House [...] misjudged when the ruling would be issued", but that doesn't really make any loving sense at all. And while it highlights Dem Senators calling on Biden to take action, let's look at what kinds of actions they're supposedly asking Biden to take: quote:Since then, lawmakers including Senator Elizabeth Warren and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have suggested Biden limit the Supreme Court's jurisdiction or expand its membership, end the legislative "filibuster" rule, build abortion clinics on federal lands, declare a national emergency and establish Planned Parenthood outposts outside U.S. national parks, among other options. The first thing that jumps out to me is that half those options are things that the Senate does, not the president. And while the other two are indeed within presidential power, the article does in fact (much later) go into specific detail about exactly why the Biden administration isn't doing those specific things. quote:The White House does not support calls to allow abortion providers to work from federal property, because it is worried the federal government won't be able to keep them safe on or off the property, two sources explained. So one of them is straight-up illegal under current federal law, and the other wouldn't prevent cops from just waiting right outside the federal abortion clinics and arresting every woman who comes out for violating state laws. Both pretty good reasons to think While it's quite amusing that Biden is calling for the Senate to do something and the Senate is calling for Biden to do something, I'm disappointed that the article doesn't clearly point that out.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:15
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https://www.fb.org/newsroom/cost-of-july-4th-cookout-17-higher-compared-to-year-ago The cost of a Fourth of July BBQ is up $10 this year. I doubt Biden's White House is going to tweet out about this like they did last year when they celebrated the cost being sixteen cents. quote:U.S. consumers will pay $69.68 for their favorite Independence Day cookout foods, including cheeseburgers, pork chops, chicken breasts, homemade potato salad, strawberries and ice cream, based on a new American Farm Bureau Federation marketbasket survey. Epicurius posted:That's not what Pelosi meant by a strong Republican party. When she used the term, she was contrasting it with the party now, and she meant that it should be a party that embraces a variety of views and tries to actively and constructively debate policy, unlike the party now, which is centered around loyalty to Trump, demands ideological conformity, and is in the hands of conspiracy theorists and lickspittles. Even then, the Dems shouldn't want their political opponents to be strong. The Dems need to pass their agenda and the GOP would always be counter to that. The reflexive need to be bipartisan is counterproductive.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:17
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JT Jag posted:The neoliberal doctrine Dem leadership adheres to makes it very clear that, because American Democracy Is The Greatest System In The World, an entire branch of government can't possibly be suborned by ideologues. Even if it's staring them directly in the face. I really do hate the modern idea that the court is supposed to be apolitical. While it would be nice in practice we've shown it doesn't work and continuing to strive for that ideal just gets you beat by people who don't tie their hands behind their back. We'd be better off just accepting again that yes, of course the court will be a political institution because people can't be impartial.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:19
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Bill Clinton's Third Way politics infesting every corner of Democratic policy-making, the insistence on bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle no matter how many times you get burned, is literally going to be the end of American democracy
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Jun 29, 2022 18:20
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JT Jag posted:Bill Clinton's Third Way politics infesting every corner of Democratic policy-making, the insistence on bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle no matter how many times you get burned, is literally going to be the end of American democracy That goes back to Lincoln and his 'team of rivals' my dude, that isn't Clinton.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:25
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Oracle posted:I wonder if he's still pissy about Pete dropping out. I mean his supporters would never have gone Bernie anyway they were a bunch of 2nd wave feminists over 55 who liked that he was one of those nice clean cut non-threatening gays that made them feel all hip and progressive to support and the older technocrat crowd who leaned more conservative but fiscally, not socially. Bernie never was pissy about it, and that's one of the things that's turned a lot of his former supporters into what amounts to jilted lovers - when the party sent the assemble signal to Centrist Voltron, Bernie just kind of...let it happen, and treated the entire thing as though it was all above board and they were all friends there with differing ideas. Anyone with a loving speck of pattern recognition in their repertoire of cognitive tools could see it unfold in real time, but Bernie never broke kayfabe.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:26
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Gumball Gumption posted:That party never existed. The people they hold up as examples of that party like Liz Cheney just showed their true face. It's not a good thing that Pelosi believes noble myths about the people who went to strip civil rights. It existed. If you're talking about the 50s and 60s, Governor Rockefeller got a bunch of bills passed reducing racial discrimination in housing and employment, built almost 90,000 houses for limited income families, quadrupled state aid to schools, and created pension programs for state workers.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:26
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Lib and let die posted:Bernie never was pissy about it, and that's one of the things that's turned a lot of his former supporters into what amounts to jilted lovers - when the party sent the assemble signal to Centrist Voltron, Bernie just kind of...let it happen, and treated the entire thing as though it was all above board and they were all friends there with differing ideas. Anyone with a loving speck of pattern recognition in their repertoire of cognitive tools could see it unfold in real time, but Bernie never broke kayfabe. Ah, yes, the natural state of things is an 11-member primary all the way through. Anything else is 'centrist voltron'.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:27
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JT Jag posted:Bill Clinton's Third Way politics infesting every corner of Democratic policy-making, the insistence on bipartisanship and reaching across the aisle no matter how many times you get burned, is literally going to be the end of American democracy I'm getting flashbacks to all of the times the Dems comprised with the GOP to get their votes on the ACA and still didn't get any. Or when the Obama administration touted how many people they have deported as a way to get Republican voters. Let's not forget Schumer's "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin." https://twitter.com/stevenmazie/status/1542176281017679873?s=20&t=7Y3H6hxdALTsd64wFPvFHA Justice Breyer retiring tomorrow. It feels like yesterday when he was complaining about people urging him to retire under Biden.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:27
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Panzeh posted:Ah, yes, the natural state of things is an 11-member primary all the way through. Anything else is 'centrist voltron'. This isn't a refutation of anything I stated, it's just a lovely, snappy comeback.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:28
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Lib and let die posted:This isn't a refutation of anything I stated, it's just a lovely, snappy comeback. You didn't really say anything substantive, other than "it's obvious this was a coordinated ploy and completely illegitimate". I simply said that it is not a conspiracy when candidates drop out of a primary, especially that crowded a primary.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:28
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Panzeh posted:You didn't really say anything substantive, other than "it's obvious this was a coordinated ploy and completely illegitimate". https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/politics/2020/03/06/inside-the-3-days-that-remade-the-democratic-primary/ quote:Guiding Buttigieg’s decision was a conversation he had earlier Sunday night with Barack Obama. The former president, who has stayed stridently neutral throughout the primary, had long been a fan of Buttigieg, identifying him as one of the Democratic Party’s next generation of leaders. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2022 18:32
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Epicurius posted:It existed. If you're talking about the 50s and 60s, Governor Rockefeller got a bunch of bills passed reducing racial discrimination in housing and employment, built almost 90,000 houses for limited income families, quadrupled state aid to schools, and created pension programs for state workers. Rockefeller lost 3 presidential bids and was unpopular in his party. I don't know if that's a great example and if Nancy is pining for the Republicans of her childhood and 20's that still sure feels like being blinded by noble myths of your enemies.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:32
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Lib and let die posted:https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/politics/2020/03/06/inside-the-3-days-that-remade-the-democratic-primary/ So, people had conversations and then doomed candidates dropped out of a race, endorsing the remaining candidate they felt aligned most with them. To get back to the original point, i'm sure it would really have resonated with people to say "no, Pete Buttgieg needs to stay in the race at all costs, otherwise this is an illegitimate primary, it was rigged."
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Jun 29, 2022 18:36
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:post roe laws already affecting access to medical contraception. To the.nuttiest ones all contraception is abortion I’ve even heard some say it about condoms.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:40
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Bar Ran Dun posted:To the.nuttiest ones all contraception is abortion I’ve even heard some say it about condoms. God struck down Onan for pulling out. Of course contraception is forbidden. You're trying to circumvent the will of God.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:41
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We're not relitigating the 2016 or 2020 primaries itt. It's been done a thousand times and unless there is some new information about the primaries themselves, 2016/2020 primary chat can go here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986700
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Jun 29, 2022 18:44
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Finishing reading the Oklahoma decision and Gorsuch is really mad. I know this is a serious issue and all, but I'll be damned if the first thing my eyes keep consistently landing and focusing on is "Breyer 420" 
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Jun 29, 2022 18:44
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Panzeh posted:So, people had conversations and then doomed candidates dropped out of a race, endorsing the remaining candidate they felt aligned most with them. To get back to the original point, i'm sure it would really have resonated with people to say "no, Pete Buttgieg needs to stay in the race at all costs, otherwise this is an illegitimate primary, it was rigged." Being slippery about when a candidate is considered doomed here: almost all candidates had poor showings at multiple events before the outsider coordination to fold at the same time.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:46
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Panzeh posted:So, people had conversations and then doomed candidates dropped out of a race, endorsing the remaining candidate they felt aligned most with them. To get back to the original point, i'm sure it would really have resonated with people to say "no, Pete Buttgieg needs to stay in the race at all costs, otherwise this is an illegitimate primary, it was rigged." Can you quote the post where I specifically said the entire thing was illegitimate or rigged, or are you simply trying to draw ethereal associations between left criticisms of democrats' behavior with Trumpian language and themes to serve a particular rhetorical end? I mean, I'm not even mentioning the coin flip that was definitely 100% on the up and up because I figure that's going to kick off the big derail about the 2020 primary (because all of politics is about the 2020 loving primary I guess, yes my irony meter is ringing in the background) but like...come on, my dude. You can't look at the primaries and the swath of selections and appointments made since inauguration and conclude that absolutely no backdoor deals were made and that everything that happened was entirely out of the sphere of the party and its ability to exert internal influence.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:47
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