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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 30k 2.0 - 40k Falls, Heresy Rises

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Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Cessna posted:

Goddamn, this is beautiful.

Thank you!

# ? Jun 29, 2022 00:09

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:27

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Feeple posted:

I'm considering running the Oops all Dreadnaughts Rite in Imperial Fists because I love the Contemptor and Deredo Dreadies. All I've bought so far is AoD and Fafnir, and I have a NotRogal Dorn printed up from a friend. Is this dumb? Not every Dread would have heavy bolters or assault cannons, as those are fun with Fists, but I think they'd lack punching through mechanized armor.

I also have some Knights and Armigers left from 40k I could fold in once Liber Mechanicus drops. Thoughts?

Knights and Armigers of the FW variety will be their own army when mech drops. We don't have rules for them yet, but I'd wager that FotA with an all knight allied detachment would be beardy as all gently caress especially at low point levels. Not to say you can't do them both, but its not gonna be a fun matchup for most people unless you talk to them ahead of time.

Which kinda sucks, I like knights and dreads too. Your other option is to go light into both... run a more balanced list. Take a balanced FotA list with 4-5 dreads with 1-3 knight allies as your 'LoW' in big rear end games. I think most people would be ok playing that at around 3K or higher.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 01:01

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Feeple posted:

I'm considering running the Oops all Dreadnaughts Rite in Imperial Fists because I love the Contemptor and Deredo Dreadies.

Oh good lord this is the first I heard of this. I looked into Fury of the Ancients and it sounds so stupid that I love it.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 01:33

Feeple: Jul 17, 2004; My favorite part of this hobby is the rules arguments.

BULBASAUR posted:

Knights and Armigers of the FW variety will be their own army when mech drops. We don't have rules for them yet, but I'd wager that FotA with an all knight allied detachment would be beardy as all gently caress especially at low point levels. Not to say you can't do them both, but its not gonna be a fun matchup for most people unless you talk to them ahead of time.

Which kinda sucks, I like knights and dreads too. Your other option is to go light into both... run a more balanced list. Take a balanced FotA list with 4-5 dreads with 1-3 knight allies as your 'LoW' in big rear end games. I think most people would be ok playing that at around 3K or higher.

I'm not looking to be beardy at all, I just like my stompy robots.

I appreciate the feedback! I figure I can slap in some Wardens or Breachers with Fafnir, and rely on that at lower values. I'm playing just with friends, so we'll call each other on BS.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 01:35

War and Pieces: Apr 24, 2022; DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

moths posted:

Oh good lord this is the first I heard of this. I looked into Fury of the Ancients and it sounds so stupid that I love it.

imagine being the dreadnaught who has to run coms or haul the baggage train

# ? Jun 29, 2022 05:16

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

War and Pieces posted:

imagine being the dreadnaught who has to run coms or haul the baggage train

This is Imperial Fists we're talking about, the Dreadnaught hauling the baggage train is probably a much desired job. After all, how else will you get to ~~show off~~ prove yourself to Dorn by insisting they add on more baggage?

"Three tons is the max weight for a Dreadnought to haul? Those are ROOKIE NUMBERS! Add on another ton! Or two tons! I'll haul them all the way to Macragge!"

# ? Jun 29, 2022 14:05

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

Can't hide behind a wall if you're busy schlepping boxes!

# ? Jun 29, 2022 14:22

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Thanks for all the excellent feedback!

This is kind of a mix of what I have (lots of tacticals), now most the Space Marine Infantry is not built...yet. So is there any way to make them Anti-armor capable? I have all the weapons still on the sprues.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 14:31

Jack B Nimble: Dec 25, 2007; Soiled Meat

Imperial Fists officers brag about crunch.

If the Crusade Force consists entirely of Imperial Fists, All troops gain "GRIND INFANTRY":

GRIND INFANTRY don't HAVE to secure the objective, but if none of them volunteer to secure the objective this turn, then the whole army has move on the objective next turn guys, c'mon be a team player.

Really, Rogal Dorn thinks of the Imperial Fists Legion as more of a family.

If you take a GRIND INFANTRY unit without any upgrades, do you really want to have the minimum amount of flair?

# ? Jun 29, 2022 16:41

Lucinice: Feb 15, 2012; You look tired. Maybe you should stop posting.

I got my box the other day and I am having a super hard time picking which legion I want to play. I asked on the other page about the Ultramarines but right now it's a three way tie between them, Salamander, and Iron Warriors.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 16:53

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

Lucinice posted:

I got my box the other day and I am having a super hard time picking which legion I want to play. I asked on the other page about the Ultramarines but right now it's a three way tie between them, Salamander, and Iron Warriors.

In your head, what would you like your army to focus on, or be better at?

# ? Jun 29, 2022 17:24

Hixson: Mar 27, 2009

My advice would be pick a legion that you think is interesting independent of their rules. The rules will change but if you�re just a fan of the legion it will keep you motivated to keep working on them

# ? Jun 29, 2022 18:04

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Has anyone seen any decent tutorials for the new rules yet? I�ve seen battle reports but nothing really dealing with the rules, besides the person was going through every page which isn�t really what I�m looking for.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 18:20

Lucinice: Feb 15, 2012; You look tired. Maybe you should stop posting.

Broken Record Talk posted:

In your head, what would you like your army to focus on, or be better at?

The box set pretty much provides the kind of army I'm looking for. Ranged infantry with dreadnought and/or tank support.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 18:51

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

Lucinice posted:

The box set pretty much provides the kind of army I'm looking for. Ranged infantry with dreadnought and/or tank support.

Both Iron Warriors and Ultramarines tend to be good at that.

Iron Warriors are all about massed Bolter fire supported by heavy weapons (wielded by infantry, Dreadnoughts, or Vehicles) and artillery. They seem to be both simple and good this edition, just doing a quick once-over of their rules. Pinning Bolters should not be underestimated in an edition reliant on denying your enemies the ability to react (both with the reaction mechanic and in terms of tactics) and the boost to anti-armor is incredibly strong.

Ultramarines, on the other hand, are all about multiple units coordinating together to either grant or stack bonuses. They look to be pretty strong as well, and Invictus Suzerains, one of their unique units, look ridiculously good for the cost (too good, really). I'd wager they'll be the harder of the two to play well, just due to the reliance on synergy and triggering special rules at the right time, but they look to be a fun legion to play. In addition, you have the added benefit of playing Ultramarines in an era where they are cool and good, rather than in 40k where they're the boring poster-boys of the setting.

Hixson posted:

My advice would be pick a legion that you think is interesting independent of their rules. The rules will change but if you�re just a fan of the legion it will keep you motivated to keep working on them

Really though, this is the correct answer. Pick a legion that you think looks/sounds cool, that you think you will enjoy modeling and painting, and go with that.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 20:05

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

Is there a decent listbuilder yet? My eyes start to glaze over when I think about making a spreadsheet for playing around with listbuilding.

This is my first foray into 30k, so I don't know where to really start with building a list. Usually with new game systems it helps when I can mess around building different options.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 20:20

Lucinice: Feb 15, 2012; You look tired. Maybe you should stop posting.

Broken Record Talk posted:

Really though, this is the correct answer. Pick a legion that you think looks/sounds cool, that you think you will enjoy modeling and painting, and go with that.

See that's the problem because those are the factions I think are cool. I'd say with Ultramarines I'm not as much into them as the other two but they have the advantage of the box preators matching their aesthetic.

So tell me how do the Salamanders play? I know flame weapons are their thing but what else do they have?

# ? Jun 29, 2022 21:01

Lord_Hambrose: Nov 21, 2008; *a foul hooting fills the air*

Hixson posted:

My advice would be pick a legion that you think is interesting independent of their rules. The rules will change but if you’re just a fan of the legion it will keep you motivated to keep working on them

Huge second on this. The big secret to the success of Horus Heresy is that every faction can do anything. Anything. You want a cool tank company? Of course Iron Hands have them, but buddy so do the World Eaters.

Also, you are going to be spending hundreds of hours with these lil toy soldiers, so pick a color you like too. World Eaters was my 1st choice for army, but the difficulty of painting all that white was too much for me at the time. For the new edition I am finally going to do Word Bearers because I love the fluff, and maybe revisit a World Eaters ZM force because my painting has improved over the years.

All the Legions are cool, so you can't go too wrong with any of them.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 21:07

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

In general, you want to decide on which legion and which RoW you want to use. Based on those two choices you will be locked into taking certain HQs and compulsory troops. You will then need to think about how to make those choices meaningful (IE: are 10 tacticals standing around doing nothing really that useful, compared to 10 in a rhino, or 20 with an apothecary, or perhaps taking assault marines instead, etc). That ends up being your core and from there you can continue adding units to pad out your shortcomings- something to deal with armor, something to deal with dreads, something to deal with terminators, etc. The best lists and units are the ones that can check multiple boxes. That's list building in a nutshell.

For many fluff is another consideration. Yes, white scars can take dreads like everybody, but they explicitly don't use them often in the fluff. Taking an all dread scars list would be legal, but probably not thematic. Not to say you can't do that, but its certainly a consideration lots of people make.

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Has anyone seen any decent tutorials for the new rules yet? I�ve seen battle reports but nothing really dealing with the rules, besides the person was going through every page which isn�t really what I�m looking for.

What sort of tutorial or advice would you like? This is a great place to ask

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jun 29, 2022

# ? Jun 29, 2022 21:08

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Floppychop posted:

Is there a decent listbuilder yet? My eyes start to glaze over when I think about making a spreadsheet for playing around with listbuilding.

This is my first foray into 30k, so I don't know where to really start with building a list. Usually with new game systems it helps when I can mess around building different options.

Only Quartermaster I think: https://templates.quartermasterapp.com/HH.html

# ? Jun 29, 2022 22:56

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

BULBASAUR posted:

What sort of tutorial or advice would you like? This is a great place to ask

Just a video series similar to what GW did, Tabletopskirmishgames, or Tacticaltortise, to listen to during work, so I can start to get the rules and layout in my head.

ijyt posted:

Only Quartermaster I think: https://templates.quartermasterapp.com/HH.html

Battlescribe has an early one for the Legion Astartes, although they've said it would most likely be a month or two to get fully done.

Also if I created a combo PDF of the recent HH missions that were uploaded by GW, would anyone want that?

# ? Jun 29, 2022 23:37

GreenMarine: Apr 25, 2009; Switchblade Switcharoo

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Just a video series similar to what GW did, Tabletopskirmishgames, or Tacticaltortise, to listen to during work, so I can start to get the rules and layout in my head.

Battlescribe has an early one for the Legion Astartes, although they've said it would most likely be a month or two to get fully done.

Also if I created a combo PDF of the recent HH missions that were uploaded by GW, would anyone want that?

Battlescribe is missing a lot of stuff. Quartermaster is apple only.

Pencil & paper is pretty fun, though.

# ? Jun 29, 2022 23:59

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

GreenMarine posted:

Battlescribe is missing a lot of stuff. Quartermaster is apple only.

Pencil & paper is pretty fun, though.

Not if you had to read my handwriting. :lol:

# ? Jun 30, 2022 00:01

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Salamanders you say? Here are today's legion overviews:

16th Legion: The Sons Of Horus

quote:

+ Legion Overview +
=============================================================================
The premiere traitor legion that still haunts 40k.The Sons of Horus are the best Legion, because the Horus Heresy is ultimately about them and their dad's struggle to overthrow the empire of man. Everyone will be jealous of you when you play them, and they�re right to be, because this game is all about you and your badass primarch.

Recruited from a prison world ruled by techno gangs, the SoH become the villains you expect them to be- merciless, disciplined, thuggish, and clever. These are the elite warriors of the warmaster, Horus, first amongst all Primrachs, who will be the one who effectively kills the emperor and births the 40k setting. Aesthetically, the design favors heavy metal, with ample use of chains, spikes, top knots, and skulls.Their armor carries distinct ornate characteristics of a practical kind- coins, kill markings, fur, and top knots. A popular legion, including an equally popular loyalist element, the SoH have enjoyed a plethora of support ranging from models to cameo appearances in many stories connecting the various legions and characters of the setting. You will find no shortage of interesting jumping off points for basing your army. Best of all, as an elite shock troop legion, the Sons of Horus will be able to do it and do it well.

+ Edition Changes +
=============================================================================
As one of the first legions with rules, the SoH were updated a number of times over the course of the 1st edition of the game. Previously, Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) bonuses increased their offensive power, and their characters and unique units tended toward mobility and mobility bonuses, chiefly Outflank. Additionally, Justaerin were one of the few two-wound Terminator units, though their offensive power was not unusual. The new Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) bonuses echo the previous edition�s themes, but interpret them in completely new ways. Melee attacks against Sons of Horus units are now -1 S the turn they charge or are charged, making their elite units unusually durable and frequently able to survive where high-quality attacks would double out a lesser Astartes. This has numerous peripheral advantages too; for example, Sons of Horus Veterans (including Reavers) and Terminators (including Justaerin) can invest more comfortably in Unwieldy weapons, since they�re more likely to live long enough to use them.

Sons of Horus unique units deserve additional discussion. Reavers are elite shock troops that can become Troops with the Line sub-type with the help of the the Black Reaving Rite of War. However, they can no longer take boltguns or volkite chargers, but instead come with built-in chainaxes (jump packs are no longer a legal upgrade). Many experienced Sons of Horus players will use them exactly like they did before, albeit without Outflank.

Justaerin, meanwhile, have gone from from �unusually vulnerable to power fists� to �unusually resistant to other Terminators� and can specialize in new ways or more comfortably challenge all comers. With 3 base attacks instead of two, with the option of taking lightning claws for free they�re truly terrifying in hand-to-hand combat. They even come with Banestrike combi-bolters and receive a discount on combi-weapons, perfect to take advantage of their BS5. However, no Rites or characters can give Justaerin the Line sub-type, and neither Horus nor Abaddon improve their precision when Deep Striking. A single Deep Strikeing unit of Justaerin is still truly terrifying, considering the changes to Deep Strike.

+ Departmento Mathematica +
=============================================================================
Sons of Horus rules favor well-balanced armies that can threaten assault without overspecializing in it. Their forces can do almost anything reasonably well. Power-armored infantry (whether mechanized or on foot, veteran or fresh recruit) should form the heart of most Sons of Horus forces, because they will have solutions to any problem smaller than a Contemptor. Justaerin are exceptional, especially in limited numbers, but only if given a way to reach their targets. Likewise, Sons of Horus special characters are strong, but none are auto-includes: they�re wasted without a plan for using them.

The new bonuses leave Sons of Horus in a good place overall, but effective Sons of Horus forces may tend to be less specialized than in the previous edition. Death Dealers, previously the greatest advantage of Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus), is now a Reaction. Certain obviously powerful units (e.g. Veteran Squads with combi-weapons) are now less reliable, though still no worse than the equivalents of any other legion. New melee-related benefits to Sons of Horus do not justify total neglect of the Shooting Phase either- rather, it is more important than ever to bring a variety of tools. With that attitude, Sons of Horus armies are accessible and forgiving to new players, but still offer a high skill ceiling and significant rewards for mastering over time.

Sons of Horus have two unique Rites of War: �The Black Reaving� and �The Long March.�

The Black Reaving lets you run Reavers as line Troops and permits Justaerin to Deep Strike without requiring Dreadclaws or special characters. Your own Master of Signals endangers all of your units that Deep Strike after your first is down, so don�t take more than one Deep Striking squad of Justaerin. Instead, invest in multiple mid-sized units of Reavers, and choose other Troops or Fast Attack choices who can quickly engage and cut down enemies in support. The Black Reaving requires your number of Fast Attack choices to exceed your Heavy Support, and points add up very quickly, so you cannot rely too heavily on big guns.

The Long March speeds up footslogging Infantry and Dreadnoughts, but requires units with Heavy (e.g. Justaerin, Leviathans, Legion Heavy Support Squads) to begin battle in a Transport or in reserve. Terminators including Justaerin become Troops choices but not Line. If you love Tartaros, you can use them here to great effect, but you need Despoilers or Tactical Squads to form the heart of your army.

18th Legion: Salamanders

quote:

+ Legion Overview +
=============================================================================
The Salamanders are the tough blacksmith legion. As such, they feature lots of master crafting, artificer armor, some of the best terminators in the game, and plentiful use of flame, melta, and thunder hammers. They are heroes with endurance, going down swinging to the last man and still putting up a fight when anyone else would have succumbed, and they stand for some ideals that most of the other loyalist legions think is going a bit too far in terms of treating humans with dignity. Aesthetically you�ll see dragon or other mythical lizard themes, flame motifs, lots of gold trim and a green and orange color scheme that naturally gets a lot of pop on the tabletop. As one of the legions who suffered extreme losses at the start of the heresy, they don�t really get a lot of special fluff, but this just makes your survivors that much cooler. In a game with lots of glass cannons, where you generally expect units to put out more damage than they can take, the Salamanders are genuinely tough. Your elite units can take a squads worth of special weapons fire on the chin and then move in to bonk them all with hand crafted hammers.

+ Edition Changes +
=============================================================================
In the first edition of 30k, the Salamanders were a middling to slightly above average legion that mainly boasted Firedrake terminators, a couple of notable unique HQ units and a strong vehicle based rite of war. In 2.0, all non-Vulkan special characters are gone (RIP to our boy Cassian), but in exchange everything else gets better. Pyroclasts in particular have gone from being decent terminator analogues that had a weird very short ranged firepower niche to 2W, 2A, 5+ IWND, meltabomb toting generalists who can match up against just about everything in the game, albeit still at short range (though now 12� instead of 8�).

The LA (Salamanders) special rule is also a key component of the factions strength- it will not die on multiwound models is quite strong now that there�s plenty of 2W infantry in the list and dreadnoughts have a wounds based statline, and the -1 to wound rolls from plasma, melta, volkite and flamers often translates to substantially increased durability for your 2+ armor save units, since those types are some of the most common ways people will try to crack elite infantry.

+ Departmento Mathematica +
=============================================================================
The Salamanders strengths come from a good base legion rule, very solid unique units, and complimentary wargear. When it all comes together you end up with very tough units that still output significant amounts of damage, forming a powerful core that you can take into different lists. Storm shields in particular are a notable callout in the Salamanders armory; on Firedrake Terminators, they create one of the most fearsome Death Stars in the game, since it�s the only elite terminator unit with access to a 3++ save, and on other terminators and independent characters you end up with a substantial edge in survivability over most opponents. Try putting one on a Primus Medicae and really make some friends.

The Salamander warlord traits offer minor benefits, maybe most notably finally letting the dream of Salamander destroyers and moritats come to pass if you�re willing to be a traitor, and the unique reaction is potentially strong but situational and shouldn�t be expected to come up every game. Generally, their rules favor elite armies that want to engage at short range before finishing things up in melee. As such, they�ll be at their best in lists that allow for deployment or assault from reserve (such as Orbital Assault), where their toughness and short-range firepower make a big difference. Thanks to their legion rules, they are also one of the best choices for dreadnought heavy lists, such as Fury of the Ancients.

BULBASAUR fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Jun 30, 2022

# ? Jun 30, 2022 02:38

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Cross post!

moths posted:

Oath complete!

No room for the challenge this month.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 03:35

Commissar Canuck: Aug 5, 2008; They made fun of us! And it's Stanley Cup season!

Cross posting from the mini painting thread

quote:

Might try cleaning up the lettering a bit on the scrolls, but otherwise my Ancient Rylanor inspired dreadnought is done. Quite pleased with how the hot coals/ashes base turned out!

# ? Jun 30, 2022 04:53

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

nice work all around!

# ? Jun 30, 2022 06:56

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Love to see more EC, one of my favs.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 10:47

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Hai Chogoris! For the Warmas... erm, Khan!

# ? Jun 30, 2022 11:08

BirdieBedtime: Apr 1, 2011

^ sick

I'm having a lot of fun taking a break from the XXth and upscaling my old XVIIth from high school/college. The Warpfire team is a new addition, cause ya gotta. I'm impressed with how well the Ashen Circle scale with modern stuff.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 12:49

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Love the use of the old school CSM heads and backpacks, Anvilus pattern stuff is dope.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 13:38

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

ijyt posted:

Only Quartermaster I think: https://templates.quartermasterapp.com/HH.html

Looks like it's only for iPad? If so, bummer.

BULBASAUR posted:

Salamanders you say? Here are today's legion overviews:
[snip]

Perfect timing!

Looks like I should source some shields to slap on my characters, I didn't even think of that after flipping through the book.

Anyone know a good source of Salamander-looking shields? Doesn't have to be GW approved.

Floppychop fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 30, 2022

# ? Jun 30, 2022 16:58

Lucinice: Feb 15, 2012; You look tired. Maybe you should stop posting.

So today's Heresy Thursday is Iron Warriors MK6 head upgrades

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/30/heresy-thursday-iron-warriors-upgrades-showcase-the-future-of-warhammer-fashion/

This might be a sign from GW itself that I should pick them

Also on the topic of Iron Warriors, how are the heavy bolters and missile launchers for them?

Lucinice fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 30, 2022

# ? Jun 30, 2022 18:08

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

Are these the same head upgrades that are on FW's site, and should I just wait for 1k Sons to pop up on GW's side, or do these upgrades make their way to the B&M stores?

# ? Jun 30, 2022 18:19

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

These are different from the FW kits. Pick the ones you prefer and use those

# ? Jun 30, 2022 18:34

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

First HH model is done. Not even gonna think about how many there are left to go

# ? Jun 30, 2022 18:35

Broken Record Talk: Jul 28, 2009; A three-hundred thousand degree baptism by nuclear fire;
we had it coming.

BULBASAUR posted:

These are different from the FW kits. Pick the ones you prefer and use those

Different, but still FW kits; from what I understand from my buddy with a GW retail license, retailers do not have the ability to order them through the GW portal.

Count Thrashula posted:

First HH model is done. Not even gonna think about how many there are left to go

Looking good, dude!

# ? Jun 30, 2022 19:45

with a rebel yell she QQd: Jan 18, 2007; Villain

Crosspost from the Oath thread. I completed my first 30k squad!

# ? Jun 30, 2022 21:25

BirdieBedtime: Apr 1, 2011

That's a drat fine squad of murderers, I love how the bones warm up the whole model.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 21:38

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 12:27

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Goddamn I need to work on my photography. And painting. Some serious talent on display, guys.

# ? Jun 30, 2022 21:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 30k 2.0 - 40k Falls, Heresy Rises

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