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Fritz the Horse posted:We're not relitigating the 2016 or 2020 primaries itt. It's been done a thousand times and unless there is some new information about the primaries themselves, 2016/2020 primary chat can go here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986700 sorry i was typing when you posted this. i will not edit though. it was worth saying. do with that what you will.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:48
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Eric Cantonese posted:God struck down Onan for pulling out. Of course contraception is forbidden. You're trying to circumvent the will of God. That’s basically the argument, that anything that prevents a pregnancy is abortion.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:50
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Epicurius posted:I mean, the Republicans in the Eisenhower administration were better than the Republicans are now, at least. Gumball Gumption posted:That party never existed. The people they hold up as examples of that party like Liz Cheney just showed their true face. It's not a good thing that Pelosi believes noble myths about the people who went to strip civil rights. They did exist, but Pelosi's point is still historically inaccurate. In the 30's up through the 50's, the parties were heterodox. You have Democrats from the south who were in favor of huge government spending programs (as long as you kept the benefits away from black people), you had Democrats in New York who were big government ethnic political machines who didn't have much ideology beyond sinecures for their geographic area, you had Democrats from the Northeast who were deficit hawks and pro-civil rights. The Republicans had true believer small government/libertarians from the west who joined with the southern Democrats to prevent any federal government intervention into civil rights, you had cosmopolitan/patrician Republicans in Vermont and New England who were pro big business and socially liberal that partnered with other urban lawmakers from both parties, and you had rural conservative values Republicans that also joined with the Southern Democrats against the New England Republicans and urban Democrats pushing cosmopolitan social policies and trade policies that benefitted urban labor/cities and international businesses. There was not much of a cohesive ideology within the parties and as a result, you had a lot of "bipartisanship," but there was a clear majority in American politics for a center-left economic plan with very conservative social policy and racism. The ideology and votes just sorted themselves differently than through partisanship, but it was still there. Tons of popular things were killed in congress because that coalition had outsized influence in the Senate (sounds familiar...) and leadership positions in both parties in the House. What Pelosi wants in her statement is for a more center-left and socially cosmopolitan majority political coalition in the country, but that isn't going to happen. It didn't even exist in the 50's. They had a center-left economic political coalition anchored by racism and very traditional social values. If everything in the 50's happened the same as before, but the politicians were more correctly aligned with a specific party, then it wouldn't actually be "worse" or "better" from an outcomes perspective, even though it would be much "worse" from a bipartisan perspective.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:54
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Tbh assuming that Pete got his appointment by dropping out to endorse a guy he was beating actually makes the Democrats look significantly more competent, because otherwise they just put this random mayor from the middle of nowhere whose most prominent skill is faking Obama Voice in a meaningful cabinet position, and his prior experience in that realm as mayor resulted in a couple of Black kids getting run over by cars I mean maybe they did just do that, who can really say. It's a lot dumber and less defensible as a merit-based choice than a political horse trade though (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2022 18:55
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Tbh assuming that Pete got his appointment by dropping out to endorse a guy he was beating actually makes the Democrats look significantly more competent, because otherwise they just put this random mayor from the middle of nowhere whose most prominent skill is faking Obama Voice in a meaningful cabinet position, and his prior experience in that realm as mayor resulted in a couple of Black kids getting run over by cars Don't forget, he is also gay
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Jun 29, 2022 18:59
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Eric Cantonese posted:God struck down Onan for pulling out. Of course contraception is forbidden. You're trying to circumvent the will of God. It really pisses them off when you point out that its a pretty lovely omnipotent god who can impregnate a virgin but not manage to get some sperm through a condom/birth control.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There was not much of a cohesive ideology within the parties and as a result, you had a lot of "bipartisanship," but there was a clear majority in American politics for a center-left economic plan with very conservative social policy and racism. The ideology and votes just sorted themselves differently than through partisanship, but it was still there. Tons of popular things were killed in congress because that coalition had outsized influence in the Senate (sounds familiar...) and leadership positions in both parties in the House. Yeah, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 doesn't actually pass in a polarized party system. While the democrats had a supermajority, Lyndon Johnson relied more on republican support. The "Bully Pulpit" and that guy he leaned over in that picture didn't really get him anything. Pelosi's probably right that it would be a lot easier to govern if the parties had less discipline in their voting habits, but it's obviously an attempt to complain about the senate without complaining about the filibuster or its procedure in general.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:00
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Main Paineframe posted:Why are you mad? The quote says that Biden is taking a number of executive actions that all look like something of consequence. While it writes that "sources inside and outside the White House" state that he's concerned about "more radical actions", neither you nor the article say what kind of radical actions you expect him to take that he's not taking. Hiding behind the Hyde amendment is pretty weak, I guess people need to call for Congress to pass a budget without Hyde instead of relying on continuing resolutions
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Jun 29, 2022 19:00
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Bar Ran Dun posted:That’s basically the argument, that anything that prevents a pregnancy is abortion. I got into it with someone on discord about this topic. They don't care about the technicalities about what abortion is or isn't. They believe that sex should have consequences "based on natural law" and that mankind should not be "killing its offspring" as this is unnatural to them. They also think the family is the foundation of society and its being destroyed because people aren't having kids or the white population needs to be replenished and preventing birth control is the way to do it. Trust me, the crazy runs deep and it goes against everything western society has achieved as society since the beginning of the Enlightenment era. They hate everyone, Descartes, Sarte you name it. Any weird hair splitting debate about what is or isn't abortion isn't important. They are against bodily autonomy entirely and nothing you can say will make them see otherwise. It's the American Taliban.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:01
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Kraftwerk posted:. It's the American Taliban. It’s far more than American these days. Thanks Internet.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:04
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Kraftwerk posted:It's the American Taliban. No, it's the American Christian fascism. Don't piggyback on western islamaphobia to make your point. Same thing for people calling it Christian sharia law. Sharia allows abortion.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:04
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theCalamity posted:I'm getting flashbacks to all of the times the Dems comprised with the GOP to get their votes on the ACA and still didn't get any. Or when the Obama administration touted how many people they have deported as a way to get Republican voters. Let's not forget Schumer's "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin." Time to nominate the Demon Core, sans screwdriver, to the supreme court.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:06
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Lib and let die posted:Bernie never was pissy about it, and that's one of the things that's turned a lot of his former supporters into what amounts to jilted lovers - when the party sent the assemble signal to Centrist Voltron, Bernie just kind of...let it happen, and treated the entire thing as though it was all above board and they were all friends there with differing ideas. Anyone with a loving speck of pattern recognition in their repertoire of cognitive tools could see it unfold in real time, but Bernie never broke kayfabe. It feels like that is a weird thing to get mad about, though. Especially since there were actual much more visible ways that people tried to kneecap Bernie. Bernie's campaign manager said the plan was to win with 25-30% of the vote over a divided field. That is a bad plan in general, but also "moderate candidates endorse moderate candidate" and "not splitting the vote makes it easier to win when you have a majority" is essentially politics and organizing 101. There were a lot more serious things they tried to throw Bernie's way in 2020, but the main reason he lost is that he couldn't get much more than 30% of the vote. Even when it was 1v1, he was only averaging 41%. He actually had a much stronger performance in 2016 and 2016 was also much worse in terms of fingers on the scale from the party. Edit: Just saw the mod post after posting.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:07
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Jaxyon posted:No, it's the American Christian fascism. I know that Islam as it's originally practiced is in some cases more forgiving than American Christianity. And honestly if we dig into scripture we can find multiple points in the bible that actually endorse abortion as a solution for things like kids born out of adultery. The problem is that bible interpretations are a religious calvinball. I dislike the Taliban as an organization because of their attitudes towards women's rights and their requirement to have a religious police that enforces certain things that would be deemed a human rights violation here. What I see in post Roe v Wade America is a bunch of states adopting a 21st century surveillance state framework for what the religious police in Taliban Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia do in the present day. That was the core of my point.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:08
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 doesn't actually pass in a polarized party system. While the democrats had a supermajority, Lyndon Johnson relied more on republican support. The "Bully Pulpit" and that guy he leaned over in that picture didn't really get him anything. Pelosi's probably right that it would be a lot easier to govern if the parties had less discipline in their voting habits, but it's obviously an attempt to complain about the senate without complaining about the filibuster or its procedure in general. The Civil Rights Act passed because they were scared of more riots, not because of reasonable bipartisan compromise lol
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Jun 29, 2022 19:08
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Kraftwerk posted:I know that Islam as it's originally practiced is in some cases more forgiving than American Christianity. And honestly if we dig into scripture we can find multiple points in the bible that actually endorse abortion as a solution for things like kids born out of adultery. I knew why you said it, and I don't care. It wasn't that complex a thought. Deal with the problem you have here instead of complaining about muslims have a world away to make your point.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:11
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Jaxyon posted:No, it's the American Christian fascism. I don't think "Christian fascism" captures the theocratic aspect that Christian Sharia and American Taliban do. It's the same reason you see handmaid's tale references. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2022 19:12
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Crain posted:Time to nominate the Demon Core, sans screwdriver, to the supreme court. Strange way to refer to Ketanji Brown Jackson, but if the net effect is the same I'll allow it.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:13
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:The Civil Rights Act passed because they were scared of more riots, not because of reasonable bipartisan compromise lol This is a largely unverifiable assertion, but what is verifiable is that the CRA votes happened along geographic lines, mostly, rather than along party lines.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:15
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OAquinas posted:Strange way to refer to Ketanji Brown Jackson, but if the net effect is the same I'll allow it. She's already nominated and approved, there's nothing to do here but swear her in at the retirement party.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:16
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DeadlyMuffin posted:I don't think "Christian fascism" captures the theocratic aspect that Christian Sharia and American Taliban do. It's the same reason you see handmaid's tale references. Yes, they work because those references piggyback on western islamaphobia and racism. Gilead is a better rhetorical device that doesn't involve that.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:18
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Eric Cantonese posted:God struck down Onan for pulling out. Of course contraception is forbidden. You're trying to circumvent the will of God. God struck down Onan for dishonoring his brother's widow and attempting to steal the birthright from the proper lineage.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:21
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People don't protest and riot now because they have too much to lose but at the rate this is going people won't HAVE anything left to lose before long so imo it's a matter of time before the lumpenprole are so beaten and stolen from that they don't have money, food, jobs, meds, all they have left is a bunch of time and anger.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:23
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:The Civil Rights Act passed because they were scared of more riots, not because of reasonable bipartisan compromise lol I may be wrong, but a lot of the riots you might be thinking of happened after 1966. If anything, having those riots (and the fear that it put into white people) would have crippled any chances of passing the Civil Rights Act in 1964 There were GOP votes to make up for the Southern Democratic refusal to support the bill. Also, Kennedy died and LBJ could invoke his memory for very effective political ammunition. The time was just right and LBJ met the moment. Bel Shazar posted:God struck down Onan for dishonoring his brother's widow and attempting to steal the birthright from the proper lineage. Yes. He was supposed to honor his brother's widow by inseminating her.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:29
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Eric Cantonese posted:
More to the point, he was supposed to take his brother's wife as his own so she would not be abandoned, homeless and hungry. Onan refused to do that and instead of finishing inside of her, he spilled his seed on the ground in a deliberate FU to God.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:34
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Panzeh posted:This is a largely unverifiable assertion, but what is verifiable is that the CRA votes happened along geographic lines, mostly, rather than along party lines. You can verify it by examining a calendar and doing a small amount of critical thinking Eric Cantonese posted:I may be wrong, but a lot of the riots you might be thinking of happened after 1966. If anything, having those riots (and the fear that it put into white people) would have crippled any chances of passing the Civil Rights Act in 1964 I am talking about the 1968 CRA which was passed after a week of massive riots after MLK was assassinated, which itself had been preceded the year prior by so many riots that LBJ made a commission to figure out what the gently caress to do about it(and they recommended "pass legislation to improve conditions for Black people") HonorableTB posted:People don't protest and riot now because they have too much to lose but at the rate this is going people won't HAVE anything left to lose before long so imo it's a matter of time before the lumpenprole are so beaten and stolen from that they don't have money, food, jobs, meds, all they have left is a bunch of time and anger. I don't really disagree but I also think you're missing an element of social conditioning involved here, because all the people in the right age range for it in this country have also spent their entire lives having their brains sandblasted with the propaganda that rioting isn't an effective or moral political action
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Jun 29, 2022 19:44
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I gotta believe this poll is an outlier until I see another one. Interestingly, the Q poll has historically been getting far more negative results for Biden than other polls (and it still shows Biden's approval at a new low for the poll) and is generally more favorable to Democratic congressional candidates. Abrams and Kemp are tied for Governor, so the surge seems to be entirely around Warnock and not other Democrats. That gives it a little more credibility since the result isn't entirely due to a sampling error. Warnock seems to be edging ahead not because of a specific policy, but because a majority of people dislike Hershel Walker personally and think he is dishonest, not a good communicator, doesn't have good leadership skills, and doesn't care about regular Georgians. I'm sure that Warnock and GA Dems are praying for another 2014 where they should have been totally wiped out, but a few terrible Republican nominees for Senate managed to sabotage easy wins in Red states. Need to see another poll from a different pollster to confirm if this is a real surge or not, though. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1542207588321955840
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Jun 29, 2022 19:49
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:You can verify it by examining a calendar and doing a small amount of critical thinking I was, in fact, referring to the 1964 CRA, though the voting patterns of the 1968 CRA were not that different. You're right that there's more evidence behind that as why the '68 CRA passed than there was for '64. Though, honestly, the political dynamic of weak parties contributed it to being able to pass by enough to defeat filibusters. There was not a strong enough consensus in that congress, however, for, Johnson to get rid of Taft-Hartley, where the Republican support was much more lukewarm and the southern dems had hardened against any kind of cooperation on labor issues.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:52
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I am talking about the 1968 CRA which was passed after a week of massive riots after MLK was assassinated, which itself had been preceded the year prior by so many riots that LBJ made a commission to figure out what the gently caress to do about it(and they recommended "pass legislation to improve conditions for Black people" Nobody refers to the 1968 CRA as "The Civil Rights Act," though. The 1964 Civil Rights Act is "The Civil Rights Act" and took place long before MLK was assassinated. Ironically, the 1968 CRA actually makes it a felony to cross state lines to riot and was mostly devoted to Native American civil rights. The Fair Housing Act was the major part of it that benefitted black Americans. The 1964 Civil Rights Act is the one explicitly targeting segregation, employment, voting rights, and access to government programs for black Americans.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I gotta believe this poll is an outlier until I see another one. It’s also abundantly clear when Walker speaks that he comes off as confused. As an example- https://twitter.com/nothoodlum/status/1537115232191057920?s=21&t=Qp9WRGjXvLpBaJ1UvE3Xyg
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Jun 29, 2022 20:01
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Judge just gave out a 30-year sentence for R. Kelly for racketeering, sex trafficking, and having sex with a minor. Edit: First major news org tweeting it: https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1542225508041166848 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 20:16
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Edit: Somehow beat the 10 second post timer and double posted.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:16
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Panzeh posted:I was, in fact, referring to the 1964 CRA, though the voting patterns of the 1968 CRA were not that different. You're right that there's more evidence behind that as why the '68 CRA passed than there was for '64. Though, honestly, the political dynamic of weak parties contributed it to being able to pass by enough to defeat filibusters. Idk I think the introduction of the two-track system and the silent filibuster probably have a lot more to do with the modern inability to defeat the filibuster than the strengthening/polarization of parties, especially given the constant excuse for why Democrats can't do much of anything right now despite holding the trifecta is that the national party has no enforcement mechanisms for its heterodox "moderates"
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Jun 29, 2022 20:39
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Idk I think the introduction of the two-track system and the silent filibuster probably have a lot more to do with the modern inability to defeat the filibuster than the strengthening/polarization of parties, especially given the constant excuse for why Democrats can't do much of anything right now despite holding the trifecta is that the national party has no enforcement mechanisms for its heterodox "moderates" I still haven't been able to figure out with 100% certainty if the reason the Dem's failed to pass some of the good stuff in the last 2 years was Manchin and Sinema alone or if they were the tip of a very large iceberg running cover for everyone else. Like would a bunch of them change their votes to No if we had 2+ extra senators who could override the filibuster?
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Jun 29, 2022 20:45
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Gumball Gumption posted:Rockefeller lost 3 presidential bids and was unpopular in his party. I don't know if that's a great example and if Nancy is pining for the Republicans of her childhood and 20's that still sure feels like being blinded by noble myths of your enemies. I remember being in my dad's car as a child and hearing Nelson say that it must be hard for a working man to live on $100k a month ... in the 1960's!!! My dad was not a fan.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:46
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Kraftwerk posted:I still haven't been able to figure out with 100% certainty if the reason the Dem's failed to pass some of the good stuff in the last 2 years was Manchin and Sinema alone or if they were the tip of a very large iceberg running cover for everyone else. If nothing else we know there are more than 2 dems that are oppsed to a living wage so that works as a decent baseline for that idea.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:57
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Things that are noticeable/funny/weird: 1) I love that the U.S. is only the 3rd most pro-U.S. country. 2) Basically every country had a large swing in positive views of the U.S. after Trump left office. And the only reason seems to be that Trump is gone. 3) Why is Australia so disproportionately down on both China and the U.S.? 4) Greece and Hungary are the only countries to have significantly less positive views of the U.S. since Trump left. 5) Japan really hates China (understandable), but Sweden really dislikes China relative to other European countries for some reason. 6) Israel is the most pro-China country that isn't in Asia by a large margin. https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/1542227919577260040
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Jun 29, 2022 20:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:post roe laws already affecting access to medical contraception. It's worth noting that Missouri's AG and governor both say that Saint Luke's interpretation of the law is incorrect, and so does Planned Parenthood. So far, Saint Luke's is the only provider in Missouri to take away access to Plan B. https://twitter.com/jonshorman/status/1542211036887089152 quote:State Rep. Mary Elizabeth Coleman, an Arnold Republican and one of Missouri’s staunchest anti-abortion legislators, said Saint Luke’s interpretation of the law is “clearly wrong.” Missouri’s ban didn’t change the definition of abortion, she said, only how abortion is regulated. quote:The decision immediately fueled fears that birth control access in Missouri is under threat because of the ban. But Planned Parenthood Great Plains, which has repeatedly disputed the idea that Missouri law blocks access to contraceptives, rebuked the health system’s decision.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:00
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The confusion is the point. Though I admit some of those providers are intentionally taking the most conservatives interpretations
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Jun 29, 2022 21:05
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Kraftwerk posted:I still haven't been able to figure out with 100% certainty if the reason the Dem's failed to pass some of the good stuff in the last 2 years was Manchin and Sinema alone or if they were the tip of a very large iceberg running cover for everyone else. Nobody can figure it out with 100% certainty and that's the tactical point of them playing it like this. There are ample reasons to suspect others would oppose it if their opposition was necessary(including Sinema herself literally saying it out loud) but there's no way to be totally sure what any of the others are truly willing to do without them actually being in a position where it counts. Plenty have made noncomittal noises about maybe, someday, being forced into some nebulous "reform" but there's always a giant layer of deniability maintained at all times
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Jun 29, 2022 21:05
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