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All these examination options and no way to know what that inspector's name is.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:25
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Waffleman_ posted:All these examination options and no way to know what that inspector's name is. it's Konichi
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Jun 29, 2022 23:58
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So having beaten the game I think agree with most of the stuff already said in the thread. The game is written around the twist and the characters just exist to trick the player. There is no mystery to solve cause the game is literally designed to gently caress with you and pretend that a weird thing is happening when it really isnt one. When the second Mizuki showed up I figured there was some nonsense where you were actually playing as her and everyone is just passing Aiba around like a joint. Also they really should have masked her voice better as you could totally tell it's the same VO. When the timeline nonsense was revealed it was more of a "oh that's cute" for me, and then me checking to see that it all still makes sense. Still pretty amused that they literally cloned Mizuki just to mess with you. I feel like Riyuki's storyline was far more compelling and interesting and I wish they played more with what's going on with him. Instead it's just like "yeah Im hosed in the head, also I have a virus that fucks your head." Tama is great but lays on the hornyness really hard at the start, if it was toned down just a tad I think I would have warmed up to her sooner. Oh and I think there was a 15 minute period where I literally got to hear that song 4 times in a row. To summarize, Somniums were great, Tama and Riyuki are cool and good. Twists and turns are kinda disappointing.
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Jun 30, 2022 00:12
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Just finished it all. I was a bit down on the first half of the game because it felt like every moment I enjoyed was just playing off the nostalgia of the first game, but once the train ride really started I enjoyed it a lot. It was also really, really dumb. But in a good way. Not as good as the first game but still real good. I did start catching on to the timeline stuff before they revealed it and it -was- a cool reveal but...because you don't know it's happening it makes it really difficult to piece the timelines together in the right order afterwards. I'm still very confused about Ryuki, like what happened to his brother, what his actual issues are, and so on. And I'm completely sick of Boss at this point. Leaving the prototype Sync machine around, the whole secret daughter nonsense, not getting Ryuki any help at all, sending the cops to capture/kill in that one timeline... The loving rocket scooters...
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Jun 30, 2022 01:19
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Zeron posted:Just finished it all. I was a bit down on the first half of the game because it felt like every moment I enjoyed was just playing off the nostalgia of the first game, but once the train ride really started I enjoyed it a lot. It was also really, really dumb. But in a good way. Not as good as the first game but still real good. Ryuki was traumatized pretty heavily from seeing his brother run over and people comment on the fact that he's a bit high strung and seems not entirely okay from the start. Then he opens the Virus Box and gets sprayed with TC-PERGE in the face which starts deteriorating his mental state even further. Then the whole incident in the cathedral is what finally completely breaks his mind into pieces from the guilt. He lead Date, and inadvertently all the others, right to Tearer. In his mind it's 100% his own fault that Date died, Kizuna was paralyzed, and Mizuki lost her left eye. Dude went through *a lot*. Looking back now, him seeming to bounce back and forth between being batshit insane and relatively lucid and with it was another little bit of a hint of the timeline being out of order. Also when you look at the True Timeline you suddenly realize that Boss chewing his rear end out wasn't her being way overly harsh on him for letting a suspect escape from the underground. That was her chewing him out for shooting at a civilian. It's actually really fun to look back at the game with the True Timeline in mind to realize this kind of poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2022 01:35
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Found it kind of funny how (spoilers for this and also Ever17) He basically reused the twist of people looking the same to trick you into thinking things were in a certain order, I didn't catch it until it was revealed though this time around so eh. The only thing I don't really get is, tricking the player was a huge part of ever17's narrative and it needed to be that way in universe for that reason but here it's like. Why? There was no reason for you as the outside meta force to experience this games events "wrong" I don't really get why Tokiko tricking the player was required when the nil number was already enough to cause the world to 'break'. Eh. I guess it's kinda nitpicky.
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Jun 30, 2022 01:40
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Found it kind of funny how (spoilers for this and also Ever17) He basically reused the twist of people looking the same to trick you into thinking things were in a certain order, I didn't catch it until it was revealed though this time around so eh. The only thing I don't really get is, tricking the player was a huge part of ever17's narrative and it needed to be that way in universe for that reason but here it's like. Why? There was no reason for you as the outside meta force to experience this games events "wrong" I don't really get why Tokiko tricking the player was required when the nil number was already enough to cause the world to 'break'. Eh. I guess it's kinda nitpicky. At this point I think aisom games just expect you to roll with completely unjustified blick winkel participating for gameplay purposes only, maybe deliberately to try to avoid doing exactly zero escape or the ever series again I guess. After the first game even the light acknowledgment it got in this one kinda surprised me. I think it would be cool if they tried to pull a big twist to justify it somehow in a future aisom game, but then this one suggests they are going to be very self contained. It's really weird but yeah I guess I'm fine with it all
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Jun 30, 2022 02:05
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This might be a weird opinion but I feel like with the Ai series specifically the crazy plot and batshit writing almost takes a side seat to the character writing as being more of what Uchikoshi seems to want to really go in on. Both games have some really endearing characters with nice moments and complex motivations and stuff. I think perhaps the first game was a little better with this (I still tear up at hearing the theme to Mayumi's Somnium as just one example) but both games have moments that really hooked my feelings and got me invested that had little or no relevance to the actual big crazy plot. For what the story writing can sometimes lack in cohesion or whatnot I think the character writing is exceptional. Also I just want to hug Gen and protect him forever.
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Jun 30, 2022 02:22
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Mizuki C5M3 My name is Chikara Horidori and I physically cannot stop abusing children
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Jun 30, 2022 02:54
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YoshiOfYellow posted:This might be a weird opinion but I feel like with the Ai series specifically the crazy plot and batshit writing almost takes a side seat to the character writing as being more of what Uchikoshi seems to want to really go in on. Both games have some really endearing characters with nice moments and complex motivations and stuff. I think perhaps the first game was a little better with this (I still tear up at hearing the theme to Mayumi's Somnium as just one example) but both games have moments that really hooked my feelings and got me invested that had little or no relevance to the actual big crazy plot. For what the story writing can sometimes lack in cohesion or whatnot I think the character writing is exceptional. I wasn't a big fan of the main twists in the first game, so I'm not sure what to make of people who preferred them to whatever happens in the second (which I haven't gotten around to playing yet). They weren't bad, but the sort of thing where I just go "oh okay, I guess that makes sense." Specifically the stuff with the main villain repeatedly swapping bodies is the sort of "trick" that isn't that satisfying to discover. It's not really the sort of thing where you can easily think back to previous events in the story and realize that a bunch of stuff makes sense now that didn't make sense. I liked the reveal about the protagonist's identity, though. I really hope that he's together with Hitomi in NI (which I guess I'll find out soon once I actually start playing).
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Jun 30, 2022 03:03
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 The Wild Ride has begun. Still MC5M3 Lien.... 
Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 03:09
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Ytlaya posted:I wasn't a big fan of the main twists in the first game, so I'm not sure what to make of people who preferred them to whatever happens in the second (which I haven't gotten around to playing yet). They weren't bad, but the sort of thing where I just go "oh okay, I guess that makes sense." Specifically the stuff with the main villain repeatedly swapping bodies is the sort of "trick" that isn't that satisfying to discover. It's not really the sort of thing where you can easily think back to previous events in the story and realize that a bunch of stuff makes sense now that didn't make sense. I liked the reveal about the protagonist's identity, though. I really hope that he's together with Hitomi in NI (which I guess I'll find out soon once I actually start playing). Huh I mean that's exactly how I would describe the twist in the first game because it immediately makes every weird thing make perfect sense. Throughout the game characters keep suddenly starting to act really weird and when you finally realize that it's all the same guy taking over their minds everything clicks into place. I won't comment on how the second one compares since you haven't played it yet.
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Jun 30, 2022 03:18
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MC5M3 WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUUUCK
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Jun 30, 2022 03:27
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Mizuki C5 M2 I am like legitimately confused at this point about Komeji and the body and not like in a good mystery way but a "did the game gently caress up" way. If this happened six years ago, why was there evidence still at the amusement park when Mizuki investigated? What was the security guard talking about the previous night?
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Jun 30, 2022 04:47
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Is your mind a puddle of goo yet, Waffleman_?
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Jun 30, 2022 07:11
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Regy Rusty posted:Yeah I have to agree. The somniums are still plenty wacky and have a huge variety, but the also feel like you're actually solving puzzles rather than just poking things randomly. I'm gonna have to agree with appreciating the added internal consistency too. The first game had you figuring out internal rules of the somniums as well, but it was really just kinda futzing around if you didn't pick up on how to do so and what to do. I started recently so I'm not too far in. Though (late Ryuki) R1 Amame's somnium was a hell of a thing. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 07:18
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(Full game spoilers, plus spoilers for the previous game) Well this was an Uchikoshi game. I guess it's a bit weird that the big twist was so... non-diegetic? In the first game, the body-swapping twist was something that was actively confusing the characters and the villain was using it to cover their own tracks. In this game, the timeline crossup is only confusing to Frayer/Blick Winkel and the world is way more straightforward to everyone else. Like many others I'd figured out the timelines were out of order fairly early on but wasn't sure about the exact details, so when the reveal came it was kind of... "okay, thanks I guess, game?" I'm still glad I played the game, though.
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Jun 30, 2022 07:36
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Regy Rusty posted:Huh I mean that's exactly how I would describe the twist in the first game because it immediately makes every weird thing make perfect sense. Throughout the game characters keep suddenly starting to act really weird and when you finally realize that it's all the same guy taking over their minds everything clicks into place. I won't comment on how the second one compares since you haven't played it yet. I kinda explained that wrong; it makes sense, but in a way that just wasn't particularly mind-blowing. I still really liked the game, though; the core story was good and none of the twists annoyed me like in ZTD or something.
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Jun 30, 2022 11:12
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Nyoro posted:Is your mind a puddle of goo yet, Waffleman_? So I picked back up because I was staring down the true end and I needed some sleep but NOW IT FUCKIN' IS!!!!! Mizuki C5M1 can't fuckin' believe this game has THREE playable characters Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 14:30
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:(Full game spoilers, plus spoilers for the previous game) Well this was an Uchikoshi game. I guess it's a bit weird that the big twist was so... non-diegetic? In the first game, the body-swapping twist was something that was actively confusing the characters and the villain was using it to cover their own tracks. In this game, the timeline crossup is only confusing to Frayer/Blick Winkel and the world is way more straightforward to everyone else. Like many others I'd figured out the timelines were out of order fairly early on but wasn't sure about the exact details, so when the reveal came it was kind of... "okay, thanks I guess, game?" I'm still glad I played the game, though. its because the twist has nothing to do wtih the story. None of the characters are confused about what order the events are happening in. Mizuki doesnt think that what Bibi does in the past is something she did, nor does Ryuki think the stuff he does in the present is stuff he did in the past. It sucks, same as the fact that some characters just have the same model 6 years later. Its only there to purposfully misdirect the player into thinking the plot is more complex than it is. You cant diagetically reveal something that has nothing to do with any of the characters or plot, the entire twist is less of a twist and more a sick prank that uchikoshi decided to play on the player. The game had no other option but to look at the player and go "Oooooh I tricked you!!! haha!!!!" Its not great.
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Jun 30, 2022 16:43
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I’m all for Uchikoshi playing pranks on me, but he’s done so much better previously
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Jun 30, 2022 16:48
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Gutcruncher posted:I’m all for Uchikoshi playing pranks on me, but he’s done so much better previously its very clear to me that the game was conceived as the twist (two timelines that appear seperate but are in fact intertwining) and then everything else was decided on to make the twist function within the story of the game. And it makes basically everything worse. Red herrings have to exist (Ryuki's freakouts, Dahlia boat, masked girl, Date dissapears) to simply make the plot function and they are simply dropped (Ryuki just has a broke brain its fine!/Literally not a thing at all/Ok she stops being masked girl and starts being Bibi/Date is back and its fine!) when the game deems it time to just tell its story normally. It also has a ton of huge impacts on the game's actual pacing/plot. Boss has to just be a lovely character who purposfully withholds critical information from her employees during a murder investigation becasue thats what the plot requires. There is not any sort of actual confrontation with literally any of the villains of the game because the plot cant let any of them be alive at the resolution of the games story. Date can't be on screen all that much because otherwise the plot doesnt work. Everything about the plot "twist" (which it even feels weird calling it that because it doesnt effect the plot) only serves to make the game worse. I've been thinking a lot about how you could actually salvage this story/game into something that functions. I think it actually could be done, but a lot would have to change. 1) You would have to make the game only have one character (Ryuiki) 2) You would have to set most of the game (pre twist) in a flashback, as Ryuki tries to piece together the events of what is going on 3) You would jump around Ryuki's memory between 6 years ago and the present, confusing the facts of the case. Make it because of TC-PERGE or something, combined with his mental illness, I dont know 4) You can have Ryuki's mental state becoming more and more clear, maybe as a result of treating TC-PERGE or as some breakthrough of his mental illnesss. This also allows the plotpoint of his trauma to be actually meaningful because you can make more of the story being about him overcoming it. At some point he has a breakthrough and we get to the present where he clearly remembers how things actually went. 5) You would have to completely remove Mizuki as a playable character, and probably Bibi from the plot entirely but hey, thems the breaks. A bunch of other minor story things would have to change to make it function, but at least that way you have a plot twist that actually impacts the story through the lens of the character you are viewing it from. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 17:11
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To be fair, Boss being a lovely person isn't exactly out of character.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:29
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YoshiOfYellow posted:To be fair, Boss being a lovely person isn't exactly out of character. She is a bad person yes, but she is activly impeding the investigation during this game.
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Jun 30, 2022 17:33
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Mizuki C5M1 pre-somnium We couldn't leave the bomb unattended so we put the dude with literal brain worms in charge of watching it
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Jun 30, 2022 17:34
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Waffleman_ posted:Mizuki C5M1 pre-somnium We couldn't leave the bomb unattended so we put the dude with literal brain worms in charge of watching it dont worry, nothing bad could possibly happen
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Jun 30, 2022 17:35
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Paul Zuvella posted:its very clear to me that the game was conceived as the twist (two timelines that appear seperate but are in fact intertwining) and then everything else was decided on to make the twist function within the story of the game. And it makes basically everything worse. Red herrings have to exist (Ryuki's freakouts, Dahlia boat, masked girl, Date dissapears) to simply make the plot function and they are simply dropped (Ryuki just has a broke brain its fine!/Literally not a thing at all/Ok she stops being masked girl and starts being Bibi/Date is back and its fine!) when the game deems it time to just tell its story normally. I agree with all this 100%. Game should have been just Ryuki and his problems. Main difference between this game and other Uchikoshi games is the twist isn't earned and doesn't change the stakes. nor does it matter to the characters, who just exist to prop up the twist
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Jun 30, 2022 19:01
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This might be really bullshit or meta and has kind of been used in other uchikoshi games, but I feel like the natural justification they could say is that the case had to have some kind of interesting or weird attention grabbing property when being viewed "4th dimensionally" by blick winkel in order for it to draw blick winkel's attention in the first place. This would kind of go for the first game as well. The twists justify the game's existence in that respect. They're the reason why these are the cases you play rather than all the other ones abis deals with
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Jun 30, 2022 19:06
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MC5M1 Somnium me playing the first game: i love this mermaid waitress, such a fun minor character. sure hope she doesn't kill two people in six years Also it's wild that fuckin' none of these kids got the Minecraft genes Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 19:21
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(All game) I can't believe that in a game with bonkers genetic engineering on the table we're supposed to feel bad for Gen having a malformed skull but everyone just looks at Komeji and goes "yeah that looks like a perfectly cromulent head shape".
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Jun 30, 2022 20:28
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:(All game) I can't believe that in a game with bonkers genetic engineering on the table we're supposed to feel bad for Gen having a malformed skull but everyone just looks at Komeji and goes "yeah that looks like a perfectly cromulent head shape". I dont watch any anime nor do I play a ton of anime games... my entire assumption all game long is that that was some kind of well known trope... is that not the case?
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Jun 30, 2022 21:58
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Well the character himself is very much your stereotypical standup comedian that speaks with a Kansai accent, that's a trope. The square head? At least I've never seen that poo poo anywhere before. Like it was weird enough with Ota's dad in the first game being literally a cartoon character, now there's Minecraft Steve over here.
Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 22:11
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True ending HOLY poo poo KIZUNA WITH THE MINIGUN
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Jun 30, 2022 22:16
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Well the character himself is very much your stereotypical standup comedian that speaks with a Kansai accent, that's a trope. The square head? At least I've never seen that poo poo anywhere before. Like it was weird enough with Ota's dad in the first game being literally a cartoon character, now there's Minecraft Steve over here. Omfg I forgot about Otas dad being bald hitler
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Jun 30, 2022 22:42
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Epilogue Ah, there we are. Go see your wife, Date.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:48
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No Mods No Masters posted:This might be really bullshit or meta and has kind of been used in other uchikoshi games, but I feel like the natural justification they could say is that the case had to have some kind of interesting or weird attention grabbing property when being viewed "4th dimensionally" by blick winkel in order for it to draw blick winkel's attention in the first place. This would kind of go for the first game as well. The twists justify the game's existence in that respect. They're the reason why these are the cases you play rather than all the other ones abis deals with The game seems to be written with this in mind. (full game spoilers) There seems to be two different entities that are trying to interfere with your perception of the events of the game. Tokiko/Naixatloz, who are actively trying to hamper your abilities as a player so that they can receive the nil number to break reality and ascend into T-pose nirvana, and Mama's balls, who are actively trying to assist you in uncovering the truth of the investigation. We only get access to the other half of the investigation when we combine words that we shouldn't know in one timeline (Dahlia Boat, two names that Ryuki would not know but were fed to him by Uru) I'm not sure how I feel about it, tbqh. On the one hand it could be a pretty cool setup for a future game where the antagonist is another 'blick winkel'-type entity, but even that might be retreading old ground of the first game. The DNA twist was pretty cute in theory/design, but it didn't really feel necessary in any sense. The Nirvana Initiative doesn't gain anything from you being confused at what point in the timeline things are at, so it feels like a twist for the sake of a twist. semi-unrelated, but Ryuki's vision going full somnium made me think that his body's immune system was trying to force us out.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:56
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I think the specific cheeky meta flavor of it is a kind I'm coming around to appreciate as I stew on it. But I completely get that some people would hate it out of hand
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Jun 30, 2022 23:11
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Epilogue Love that there's a specific little aside where Uchikoshi goes "You thought that LGBT stuff in the first game was a localization thing? Well here I am doubling and tripling down on it!"
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Jun 30, 2022 23:15
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Waffleman_ posted:Epilogue Love that there's a specific little aside where Uchikoshi goes "You thought that LGBT stuff in the first game was a localization thing? Well here I am doubling and tripling down on it!" My wife and I enjoyed that this game and the previous one had several gay characters and a bisexual robot.
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Jun 30, 2022 23:22
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He loves them all.
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Jun 30, 2022 23:26
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