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Discendo Vox posted:That's a terrible poll question, it'd be hard for it to be more designed to generate that result. Lol, I honestly can't remember any polls with more leading wording. At least from one that isn't a naked marketing exercise. This is a real university.
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Jun 30, 2022 21:45
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Koos Group posted:To clarify something last night, you can post paywall bypasses in D&D, and I would go so far as to encourage doing so if necessary. https://12ft.io/
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Jun 30, 2022 21:49
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Cimber posted:I wodner if the people who say that abortion should be illegal in the last 3 months of pregnancy actually stop and think about who's getting abortions at that time. The other Gallup result last week that took me aback: Voters don't think women should have abortions for just any old reasons:  whereas most women do get abortions for reasons like "not ready," "can't afford it" and "have enough children." This what I mean when I say that voters' views on abortion are highly conditional. (MODS: If I'm making too subtle of a point here, let me know & I'll elaborate. I'm positing a theory here, nothing more & nothing less, and I'm not "arguing" but rather elucidating why the polls have these results.)
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Jun 30, 2022 21:50
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Wouldn't want women to have too much agency over their own bodies. They can have a little abortion, as a treat, as long as I'm OK with it.
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Jun 30, 2022 21:52
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Koos Group posted:Do you mean that we need someone like that here in the thread, or the type of people you're talking about are here in the thread? Koos carefully probing public opinion before moving onto the next stage of forum control. Just make sure you have the full support of the IKs.
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Jun 30, 2022 21:59
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 This was predictable - the delayed effect of the standard medications means patients who didn't stay outside their home state for weeks would be exposed to a motivated prosecutor. Going to be hellish to try and up-provision for surgical only.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:04
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Cimber posted:I wodner if the people who say that abortion should be illegal in the last 3 months of pregnancy actually stop and think about who's getting abortions at that time. Pete Buttigieg of all people gave a very good answer when pressed on late-term abortion that went semi-viral during the general election. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKOoWYfIzIw https://twitter.com/occamsrazor45/status/1315443201516371972
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Jun 30, 2022 22:05
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Cefte posted:
Yes last I head MABs was a significant majority of PP abortion care.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:13
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I guess I just don't understand, beyond lol Republicans are evil lol, how a law can be passed in a given state that makes a supposed crime committed in another state prosecutable in the "home" state. If I live in South Dakota, and drive to North Dakota to rob a store, how can South Dakota prosecute me for anything? Or maybe a better example would be, if I drive from a state where marijuana is illegal to a state where marijuana is legal, and smoke a joint in the second state, how can that first state prosecute me for anything?
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Jun 30, 2022 22:23
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Thank you.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:24
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I guess I just don't understand, beyond lol Republicans are evil lol, how a law can be passed in a given state that makes a supposed crime committed in another state prosecutable in the "home" state. If I live in South Dakota, and drive to North Dakota to rob a store, how can South Dakota prosecute me for anything? States can't prosecute you for anything, but there is legal precedent in Texas for allowing civil litigation on the issue, and anti-abortion lawmakers are pursuing a strategy to introduce this in other parts of the country. The Biden justice department has warned states that it would fight these laws for violating the interstate commerce clause, however. Full details here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/
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Jun 30, 2022 22:37
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https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1542511576497868802 Pretty surprising result given everything else they've been doing lately. Just reinforces the fact that the conservative justices are ghouls, but some of them operate by their own logic of what the law should be, rather than just doing whatever republicans would want them to do.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:43
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Youth Decay posted:Pete Buttigieg of all people gave a very good answer when pressed on late-term abortion that went semi-viral during the general election. This is solid. Always forget how good a speaker he is. A friend mentioned she was against abortion when I brought it up the other day, she's a 64 y/o secretary. She immediately referenced the graphic pictures and that was pretty much the entirety of her reasoning for the position. I walked her through some of the basic medical realities, late-term stats, wrapped up with Ireland/Savita Halappanavar, and she was receptive. It's a shame everyone's locked in their own media ecosystem now. There's obviously a few sadists running around in the GOP but the primary issue with most people is really an information one. That goes for all our problems really. Getting people past thinking in binary, or a single axis is the difficult part, and also just getting them to engage with any info that conflicts with whatever they have established. Not entirely complex concepts, but so far reaching in their impact that they'll be referenced on our tombstone: "Here lies humanity, failed to solve Collective Action problems due to nuance and cognitive dissonance".
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Jun 30, 2022 22:46
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Youth Decay posted:Pete Buttigieg of all people gave a very good answer when pressed on late-term abortion that went semi-viral during the general election. Being a supporter of abortion rights, that's neither a convincing argument nor a good video, with all the annoying clapping. Seems more like a rhetorical parlor trick.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:52
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Cimber posted:I wodner if the people who say that abortion should be illegal in the last 3 months of pregnancy actually stop and think about who's getting abortions at that time. They think it’s just women who don’t fit into their bathing suits anymore and want to go party. There is no second thought to it.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:58
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These people are nuts for Ben Shapiro, rhetorical parlour tricks work.
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Jun 30, 2022 22:58
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:I guess I just don't understand, beyond lol Republicans are evil lol, how a law can be passed in a given state that makes a supposed crime committed in another state prosecutable in the "home" state. If I live in South Dakota, and drive to North Dakota to rob a store, how can South Dakota prosecute me for anything? Slow chanting builds down the corridor: conflict of laws conflict of laws CONFLICT OF LAWS CONFLICT OF LAWS This is a very complex area and depends on existing statutory and common law doctrines in all relevant states. For example, if you steal a car in one state and get into a collision in another while high. This is one of those areas where you get an LLM and make big bucks as a specialist; there's a layer of constitutional caselaw on top of the direct interstate conflicts involved. It's possible to wind up with multiple states applying divergent common law and statutory doctrines, including situations where one state has to perform an analysis of another state's interests using a third state's test standards and a fourth state's evidence...to provide an example, in this case Kansas was obligated to correctly apply the substantive law of all 50 states to plaintiff standing and outcomes in a class action suit. With all that said, it is very rare for a state to be able to get jurisdiction over a simple criminal action in another state- these laws seeking this will rarely be enforceable with the doctrines presently on the books, especially as most conflict of law standards are developed in civil liability contexts. Wide interstate access to this sort of thing cuts strongly against corporate interests in another major area: class action liability. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jun 30, 2022 |
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Jun 30, 2022 23:00
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snorch posted:These people are nuts for Ben Shapiro, rhetorical parlour tricks work.
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Jun 30, 2022 23:18
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This sounds like a complex and fascinatingly detailed area of the law. Exactly the kind of place where authoritarians and fascists like to say "lol gently caress you no" So, like, then what? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2022 00:05
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bird food bathtub posted:This sounds like a complex and fascinatingly detailed area of the law. Just because something is complex doesn’t mean the appropriate response is to dismiss it and assume the worst outcome. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2022 00:21
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Koos Group posted:States can't prosecute you for anything, but there is legal precedent in Texas for allowing civil litigation on the issue, and anti-abortion lawmakers are pursuing a strategy to introduce this in other parts of the country. The Biden justice department has warned states that it would fight these laws for violating the interstate commerce clause, however. Full details here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/ A number of states have also passed laws forbidding themselves from cooperating with other states in this area, too. Like, if someone in Texas tries to sue someone in Connecticut over a telemedicine abortion, Connecticut will just ignore it. This is probably not healthy for the legal system as a whole but it's better than the alternative
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Jul 1, 2022 00:26
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Discendo Vox posted:Just because something is complex doesn’t mean the appropriate response is to dismiss it and assume the worst outcome. Dismissing complexity and generating the worst outcome is what the Supreme Court has been doing all week. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 1, 2022 00:27
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Discendo Vox posted:Just because something is complex doesn’t mean the appropriate response is to dismiss it and assume the worst outcome. I used bigger words please don't probe me koos
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Jul 1, 2022 00:29
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Discendo Vox posted:Just because something is complex doesn’t mean the appropriate response is to dismiss it and assume the worst outcome. The poster was speaking to the response of the fascists, who do not deal in complexity and generally decide on the basis of 'does this outcome help conservatives'. Complexity and sophistry merely serve as fig leaves to the fascist outcome and these days barely even that.
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Jul 1, 2022 00:31
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That Kamala Harris interview is worse than I thought. She is absolutely terrified of calling out the Republicans.
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Jul 1, 2022 00:43
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https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/akron/akron-protest-police-shooting-jayland-walker/95-f1f55a95-955b-42d7-a7ec-f5833d028294 Add "cops shoot unarmed black man 60 times" to the list of horrible poo poo going on in America right now. I wouldn't optimistic about much justice in this case, since it was group of cops who will all have a cohesive lie, and it was a chase situation after Jayland Parker fled from a traffic stop. Allegedly there was a gunshot from the vehicle during that portion of the chase, but the gun was in the car after he abandoned the vehicle and fled on foot when he was shot repeatedly.
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Jul 1, 2022 01:31
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Willa Rogers posted:The other Gallup result last week that took me aback: Voters don't think women should have abortions for just any old reasons: https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ quote:Many anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique — not like those “other” women — even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling. Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call “sluts” and “trash.” Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for “convenience”. I suspect you may have already read this, but here are a load of anecdotes from people working at abortion clinics about "pro-life" people desperately getting abortions. It's from 2000, though. I wonder how much the data and stories have changed since then.
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Jul 1, 2022 02:17
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Eric Cantonese posted:https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/ There was an updated one where they outright tell doctors they're going to hell (after they perform the abortion, of course) but the rest of it still sounds exactly the same. 'The only moral abortion is my abortion.' The mean vindictive part of me wants to say that since this SCOTUS decided a right to privacy isn't in the Constitution therefore Roe v Wade is moot, that so is the right to private medical records and clinics should just release all the anti-abortion protestors that came in for an abortion's info.
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Jul 1, 2022 02:35
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Oracle posted:There was an updated one where they outright tell doctors they're going to hell (after they perform the abortion, of course) but the rest of it still sounds exactly the same. 'The only moral abortion is my abortion.' Someone on my Facebook shared screencaps of a Twitter thread with these stories, but the account appears to be gone now.  
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Jul 1, 2022 02:42
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Automata 10 Pack posted:That Kamala Harris interview is worse than I thought. She is absolutely terrified of calling out the Republicans. They haven't even left her alone, they criticize every statement she makes, and Biden has met with her only a handful of times.
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Jul 1, 2022 02:45
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Nonsense posted:They haven't even left her alone, they criticize every statement she makes, and Biden has met with her only a handful of times. What did she think she was getting into?
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Jul 1, 2022 02:51
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What did she think she was getting into? Being Vice President is like being the lead guitarist of a band, right? You're not the singer, but you're the cool guy soloing over the music!!!!
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Jul 1, 2022 02:53
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Eric Cantonese posted:Being Vice President is like being the lead guitarist of a band, right? You're not the singer, but you're the cool guy soloing over the music!!!! Bass tech at best
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Jul 1, 2022 02:56
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Kamala is the Bez of the band.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:02
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Kamala is the Bez of the band. People like Bez, though.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:05
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Jaxyon posted:The poster was speaking to the response of the fascists, who do not deal in complexity and generally decide on the basis of 'does this outcome help conservatives'. Bishyaler posted:Dismissing complexity and generating the worst outcome is what the Supreme Court has been doing all week. cat botherer posted:I think the probed poster's point was that it doesn't necessarily matter if it causes inconsistencies with the nuanced case law in this area - that doesn't appear to matter that much to the current court, because some of their new decisions are already bizarre and inconsistent, and instead appear to be post hoc justifications of their personal prejudices. You're not the Supreme Court, and neither is this thread. My post explaining conflict of laws already discussed why this is unlikely to transpire. Responding to it with nothing but "yes, but the fascists are so angrypowerful they can ignore all information, and therefore so can I" doesn't actually promote any kind of discussion or detail.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:17
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Discendo Vox posted:You're not the Supreme Court, and neither is this thread. My post explaining conflict of laws already discussed why this is unlikely to transpire. Responding to it with nothing but "yes, but the fascists are so angrypowerful they can ignore all information, and therefore so can I" doesn't actually promote any kind of discussion or detail. I may not be on the court but inexplicably I have found that I am a more impartial and more intellectually honest jurist than 5 of them. I don't vouch for the specific arguments being made, but I find it very helpful to be reminded that the whole system is illegitimate but for the threat of force. Don't get me wrong, you have to go through the motions of government and wrest whatever positive outcome you can, but acting like there are any rules left when almost everyone's just playing political team sports is giving too much faith and legitimacy to the system.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:25
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Eric Cantonese posted:Someone on my Facebook shared screencaps of a Twitter thread with these stories, but the account appears to be gone now. the last one about empthy is interesting because you dont see the sheer hostile madness cocktail of crazy like you do with other medical stuff. maybe, I dunno, like the closest medical treatments I can think off is trying to get fix STD stuff, but that's still a thing thats a result of sex.
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Jul 1, 2022 03:56
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Discendo Vox posted:You're not the Supreme Court, and neither is this thread. My post explaining conflict of laws already discussed why this is unlikely to transpire. Responding to it with nothing but "yes, but the fascists are so angrypowerful they can ignore all information, and therefore so can I" doesn't actually promote any kind of discussion or detail. After seeing the SCOTUS fascists spend the last two weeks ignoring all information to sweep aside well established laws I don't find this to be a powerful argument. They did exactly the thing you said is unlikely to transpire.
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Jul 1, 2022 04:02
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Discendo Vox posted:You're not the Supreme Court, and neither is this thread. My post explaining conflict of laws already discussed why this is unlikely to transpire. Responding to it with nothing but "yes, but the fascists are so angrypowerful they can ignore all information, and therefore so can I" doesn't actually promote any kind of discussion or detail. It's extremely weak on your part to try to pull rank on the topic of the SCOTUS of all things. It is manifestly obvious the current court will ignore all precedent when they desire to do so, so insisting on a rules-based order seems like you're the one who is out of touch with reality.
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Jul 1, 2022 04:12
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