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-Blackadder- posted:Things have been crazy lately with everything going on so I haven't had the chance to talk to her about it again, and she isn't someone I see everyday. Also, lmao, in hindsight I did not come off as smooth as I made it sound in the post you quoted. This stuff isn't really my area of expertise so I was thinking of trying to find a script or something before I talk to her again. But it sounded like it was starting to click for her with the Ireland story. The link Ellison gave in the tweet is for a case in Brazil, not Ohio so that's sorta odd. There is in fact a case in Ohio too so he probably just grabbed the Washington Post link without actually reading it
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Jul 2, 2022 17:30
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Poe's law is a bitch. This sort of thing was "unofficially" on the books way back when I was in high school in the early 2000s. One of my best friends was in band and was outed as a lesbian, so anytime there was a band trip, there was always a huge dustup of parents lobbying complaints about her being there and how she was going to try to corrupt their vulnerable daughters and demand all sorts of extra chaperoning or sequestering my friend away in a separate building.
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Jul 2, 2022 17:39
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Scrotum Modem posted:The link Ellison gave in the tweet is for a case in Brazil, not Ohio so that's sorta odd. There is in fact a case in Ohio too so he probably just grabbed the Washington Post link without actually reading it drat, you're right. Here's a story link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/ar-AAZ6VAq?cvid=1b99c6a17c71454091805f2cdd35329f
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Jul 2, 2022 17:44
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Cimber posted:also don't forget that the GOP has specifically targeted school boards and other small government bodies as the next battleground. They want to have th GOP agenda presented in every facet of American life. And this also projection yet again because what they'reselling the public is that schools want to indoctrinate kids when that's exactly what they want to do.
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Jul 2, 2022 18:01
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It's too bad that calling out conservatives for their hypocrisy has never ever worked.
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Jul 2, 2022 18:52
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Star Man posted:It's too bad that calling out conservatives for their hypocrisy has never ever worked. Which is why it should be followed up with severance("I'm not going to be around you if you're gonna be like that")
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Jul 2, 2022 18:59
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Star Man posted:It's too bad that calling out conservatives for their hypocrisy has never ever worked. “Our strongly worded letter didn’t work! Oh well…”
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Jul 2, 2022 19:11
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Trazz posted:Which is why it should be followed up with severance("I'm not going to be around you if you're gonna be like that") "So you're telling me I've annoyed you so much you'll gently caress off and let me be a racist piece of poo poo with no push back? Works for me, see ya"
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Jul 2, 2022 19:38
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Gumball Gumption posted:"So you're telling me I've annoyed you so much you'll gently caress off and let me be a racist piece of poo poo with no push back? Works for me, see ya" Have a nice life!
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Jul 2, 2022 19:43
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Trazz posted:Have a nice life!  The continued splitting up of the country into two camps, fascists and people who move out of places fascists control, has just led us to more fascist control. It hasn't fixed anything yet even though we keep trying it.
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Jul 2, 2022 19:47
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Gumball Gumption posted:
Hey I thought you left, why are you still talking to me? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 2, 2022 19:49
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Trazz posted:Hey I thought you left, why are you still talking to me? It's more that if you want to get rid of the fascists you don't move away. You make them move away.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:22
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Josef bugman posted:It's more that if you want to get rid of the fascists you don't move away. You make them move away. Yeah, my dad ended up moving to Texas because I wanted nothing more to do with him
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Jul 2, 2022 20:25
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Trazz posted:Which is why it should be followed up with severance("I'm not going to be around you if you're gonna be like that") Gumball Gumption posted:"So you're telling me I've annoyed you so much you'll gently caress off and let me be a racist piece of poo poo with no push back? Works for me, see ya" This topic has already been covered extensively in its own thread, which both of you posted in.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:27
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Koos Group posted:This topic has already been covered extensively in its own thread, which both of you posted in. Yeah but you might notice that topic is currently locked
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Jul 2, 2022 20:28
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Trazz posted:Yeah but you might notice that topic is currently locked Yes, because it had ceased to be fruitful in offering new ideas, and the current conversation doesn't appear to be contradicting this.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:31
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Koos Group posted:Yes, because it had ceased to be fruitful in offering new ideas, and the current conversation doesn't appear to be contradicting this. I was unaware that "offering new ideas" was a criteria, I thought it was a thread to talk about our own personal experiences with such matters, and in light of RvW being overturned I'm sure we'll hear lots of new stories about people cutting off friends and relatives because of that as well\ Besides this thread still regularly spins its wheels at least once a week so lmfao
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Jul 2, 2022 20:36
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Trazz posted:I was unaware that "offering new ideas" was a criteria, I thought it was a thread to talk about our own personal experiences with such matters, and in light of RvW being overturned I'm sure we'll hear lots of new stories about people cutting off friends and relatives because of that as well\ Sharing personal experiences wasn't the specific purpose. It was about the topic in general. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this further.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:40
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Koos Group posted:Sharing personal experiences wasn't the specific purpose. It was about the topic in general. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this further. I don't have PMs
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Jul 2, 2022 20:45
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Trazz posted:I don't have PMs I've queued platinum for you.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:46
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Koos Group posted:Yes, because it had ceased to be fruitful in offering new ideas, and the current conversation doesn't appear to be contradicting this. Yeah, that's why I stopped responding. It's a very silly topic that no one will change their mind on. Hell I could be totally wrong anyways, maybe the distance will make it easier for people to kill their fascist dad once the violence starts and this big divide we have start trying to kill each other in an active way instead of just through neglect and stripping all production. We're probably past the point where talking will help and I'm just frustrated that it's still pointed to as a good thing to do when it's gotten us here.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:46
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The idea that just shunning/severing people we disagree with is constructive or strong or in any way a solution is just so terribly wrong and backwards it should always be pushed back against. Just like assault should be illegal, yet punching a nazi is also the right thing to do. I mean, try to get away with it though! Also, not calling you know who a nazi. It's just funny that as our system and society are failing more obviously, with no indication of improving, behavior necessary for a working society becomes less reasonable and/or in fact directly in the way of progress. My coworkers are sometimes baffled by my belief that some sort of power hierarchies are necessary for all of the benefits of collaborative human action, all while I call for bringing the system to its knees. It's a question of the purpose and effect of the "machine" one participates in. Like, if you're in an equitable just and sustainable order, there will necessarily be a bit of individual sacrifice or compromise. In my experience, leadership and responsibility are tough and its much easier to be told what to do than to be responsible for organizing and directing people for the collective good. I reckon there's some fertile extrapolations from my mess of a post that could be applied to our leadership and electorate, but I feel I'm beginning to rant so I'll just leave this here.
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Jul 2, 2022 20:58
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BRJurgis posted:In my experience, leadership and responsibility are tough and its much easier to be told what to do than to be responsible for organizing and directing people for the collective good. To extend on that, and I think it has direct impact on the political situation in most of the developed world: it's really easy, and therefore desirable, to be a leader when times are reasonably good and you don't have to do a whole bunch. With COVID, among other things, we've really quickly hit the point where leaders at all levels -- both in private business and in government -- have to make difficult choices with no inherently correct answer, and every possibility will piss a large number of people off and have negative consequences. Well, tough poo poo; you thought leadership pays well because we love your amazing insight when times are good? No! It pays well because, when it really matters, leadership mainly sucks. It's difficult and unpleasant, and if you accept the position of leadership and all its benefits... well, you gotta eat the poo poo sometimes too.
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Jul 2, 2022 21:08
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BRJurgis posted:The idea that just shunning/severing people we disagree with is constructive or strong or in any way a solution is just so terribly wrong and backwards it should always be pushed back against. Just like assault should be illegal, yet punching a nazi is also the right thing to do. Lmao. I'm only on this planet for a limited amount of time so I'm not going to spend it miserable and surrounded by people who loving hate me, my friends, or loved ones. If I'm stuck in a situation with them I'm gonna throw it back in their faces, if that leads to a fight then I'm going to loving throw hands. Why the gently caress do I have to concede to being miserable?
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Jul 2, 2022 21:21
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Shunning and severing yourself doesn't work so good when the people you want to sever from run government.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:05
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I severed from my entire chud family and haven't spoken to either of my sisters in months, and I've never been happier.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:12
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Taking your ball and going home is fine so long as it’s actually your ball. If you go home and leave the ball they’ll just win the game without you
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Jul 2, 2022 22:17
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PT6A posted:To extend on that, and I think it has direct impact on the political situation in most of the developed world: it's really easy, and therefore desirable, to be a leader when times are reasonably good and you don't have to do a whole bunch. With COVID, among other things, we've really quickly hit the point where leaders at all levels -- both in private business and in government -- have to make difficult choices with no inherently correct answer, and every possibility will piss a large number of people off and have negative consequences. Well, tough poo poo; you thought leadership pays well because we love your amazing insight when times are good? No! It pays well because, when it really matters, leadership mainly sucks. It's difficult and unpleasant, and if you accept the position of leadership and all its benefits... well, you gotta eat the poo poo sometimes too. I think this is why those tropes about Make Them Do It, in which Do It = anything contrary to their donors' interests, rub me so wrong. "Welp, voters just don't like stuff like single-payer; time to shovel more money in subsidies to private insurers!" when polling for single-payer usually follows what low-info voters' favored pols are spouting at the moment (see, e.g., the bump among Dem voters for fracking once Biden came out in favor it during one of his debates with Trump). I'm not gonna blame "the [powerless] left" for Dems' congressional inaction, not when the Dem speaker of the house is longing for the days of a strong republican party or when Manchin's party boat is hosting a bipartisan group of senators who don't give a rat's rear end about the optics or when the donors' green money is calling the shots, not the red or blue jerseys.* This circles back to what I think has destroyed the Dems even more than any amount of whinging from either the left or the right: the idea that governing by impotence is attractive to voters. * NOTE TO MODS: I'm referencing other arguments that have been made in this thread about lefties just not leftying enough to get the good stuff passed. Please let me know if there's any confusion & I'll be happy to clarify. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 2, 2022 |
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Jul 2, 2022 22:20
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RealityWarCriminal posted:Shunning and severing yourself doesn't work so good when the people you want to sever from run government. "Reasonable" people refused to exile and remove bigots and evil from government and not look at where we are.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:36
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Willa Rogers posted:I think this is why those tropes about Make Them Do It, in which Do It = anything contrary to their donors' interests, rub me so wrong. "Welp, voters just don't like stuff like single-payer; time to shovel more money in subsidies to private insurers!" when polling for single-payer usually follows what low-info voters' favored pols are spouting at the moment (see, e.g., the bump among Dem voters for fracking once Biden came out in favor it during one of his debates with Trump). I'd agree with that, and I'd go further and say there's a particularly feckless sort of leader who looks at a good but unpopular option, and a bad but somewhat popular option, and reasons that the best compromise is a bad and unpopular compromise. I'd say it's not necessarily based on political position looking at my own non-US context. Our conservative premier just got shitcanned because, on COVID, he managed to do nothing of any use for people who recognized COVID was a threat, but did entirely too much in the opinion of people who thought COVID was a "globalist conspiracy plandemic." Margaret Thatcher, we are richer for having lost her, and may Satan piss on her miserable soul, said one thing that's completely correct on the subject of leadership: "Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous; you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides." The middle ground is not inherently safe and you should only stake out the middle ground on its own merits. In some cases, the middle of two extremes is prudent; in others, you're choosing between a correct option and a wrong option, and the compromise is to select an option that's half-poo poo and usually won't even bear the few benefits of the fully-poo poo option, while pissing everyone off. Our erstwhile premier, may he suffer 100 mosquito bites on his cockend, made this mistake just the same as the Democrats in the US, so I don't believe it has anything to do with ideology, but rather with cowardice, and that comes back to what I think it means to be a leader. They came of age, in a sense, where leadership meant moderation and compromise, and therefore they equate those things with leadership itself rather than viewing the situation contextually and realizing that the key point of leadership is directing all efforts at what needs to be done. At times, it may be moderation and compromise; now, clearly, that is not the case.
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Jul 2, 2022 22:44
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Weird that Jim Hightower would agree with Margaret Thatcher but one of his favorite sayings (and the title of one of his books) was "There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes & dead armadillos." Actually, it's not that weird, bc even though they repped opposite sides, they understood power & how it should be utilized. eta: And as you pointed out, it's not about ideology but about leadership. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jul 2, 2022 |
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Jul 2, 2022 22:47
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BiggerBoat posted:Biden is out dated and the wrong guy at the wrong time; fully unequipped to deal with the vast array of modern problems we face on basically any issue. To be honest, I think that any of the other candidates from 2020 except Bernie or maybe, maybe, maybe Warren would almost certainly have been even worse. On labor (Howard Schulz could have been the Dem candidate, remember?), on foreign policy (We'd be posting from a nuclear crater if Pete or Klobuchar were president, and also still be in Afghanistan 100%), probably somehow on everything else too. The lesson for me from this trainwreck of an administration is that as bad as Biden personally is, the Democratic Party at every level, Congress, state legislatures, city governments, is a shockingly, catastrophically reactionary and incompetent organization that will absolutely burn this country to the ground before allowing a single millimeter of progressive change, and every single person even a degree left of Joe Lieberman needs to get off the train now I'll probably vote for Dems again in teh fall and in 24 because I'm a sucker, but if you live in a blue state, please stop voting for Democrats at the state, local, and House levels, vote for a leftist third party instead icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 2, 2022 |
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Jul 2, 2022 23:13
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One cannot sever & separate in order to politically correct a country where more than 30% of a regular ciritzen's life is orbiting their employement. You cannot sever & separate the person you work for, work with, or work to serve- actual effort is required.
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Jul 2, 2022 23:23
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Koos Group posted:I've queued platinum for you. You really shouldn't inflict the ability to be privately messaged onto people. Sa is like 99% better without pms.
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Jul 2, 2022 23:28
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If Trump announces earlier rather than later he is running for another term, is that going to impact at all any calculus on indictments at either a state or federal level?
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Jul 2, 2022 23:33
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Willa Rogers posted:Weird that Jim Hightower would agree with Margaret Thatcher but one of his favorite sayings (and the title of one of his books) was "There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes & dead armadillos." Would that we'd (in the global sense) have a democratic socialist leader with half the guile and cunning of Thatcher, poo poo might actually improve.
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Jul 2, 2022 23:43
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Cimber posted:If Trump announces earlier rather than later he is running for another term, is that going to impact at all any calculus on indictments at either a state or federal level? I guess the more pertinent question would be do you honestly believe Trump is going to be federally indicted for anything?
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Jul 2, 2022 23:52
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Gerund posted:One cannot sever & separate in order to politically correct a country where more than 30% of a regular ciritzen's life is orbiting their employement. You cannot sever & separate the person you work for, work with, or work to serve- actual effort is required. How much effort do you think I should put into the side of the family who backed my uncle when he pulled a gun on my brothers and I when he caught an inkling one of my brothers might be gay? No poo poo some calculus needs to be done in one's life about who they have to interact with. Doesn't mean anyone has to suffer abuse and violence in their personal lives where they could otherwise avoid it.
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Jul 2, 2022 23:59
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Crain posted:How much effort do you think I should put into the side of the family who backed my uncle when he pulled a gun on my brothers and I when he caught an inkling one of my brothers might be gay? That's a crazy anecdote but it has nothing to do with the post you're quoting, which just says that most people don't have the option of cutting themselves off from whatever awful people there are at their workplaces.
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Jul 3, 2022 00:07
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Cimber posted:If Trump announces earlier rather than later he is running for another term, is that going to impact at all any calculus on indictments at either a state or federal level? I think it might have had an impact if we never had the public 1/6 hearings, but I do not think it will have any impact whatsoever now. If the DOJ doesn't indict, it won't be because they were thinking about it but then got scared of people accusing them of protecting Biden from a declared candidate, it would mean that Garland never had any intention of doing it no matter what happened. Rigel fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Jul 3, 2022 |
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Jul 3, 2022 00:10
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