USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

«‹›279 »

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

BRJurgis posted:

Call me a doomer, but does anybody see anything changing significantly for the better anytime soon?

Nope. Not in the slightest so call me a doomer too. Anyone with the power to fix anything wouldn't really want to and anyone who wants to lacks the wealth and control. People have been talking about late stage capitalism in these threads for a good while now and, to my eyes, that's what this is.

I guess one can argue that we've been through worse with the Great Depression and poo poo like that but I don't see another FDR or even an Eisenhower on the horizon. Half the people I meet and talk to strike me as utterly insane and, for whatever reason, the people that ascend to the highest office in the land are Joe Biden and Donald Trump. Not real inspiring. Is this the best we can do?

If I have any hope at all it's that, eventually, things are going to get SO bad that we'll basically have no choice to do things like UHC, UBI, free college, nuclear power and things like that but about half the country is against "handouts" because it offends supply side Jesus and the other half thinks that nuclear is bad. We're in tremendous trouble right now and the anger and frustration is palpable everywhere I go. The bad mood is thick. And people ARE willing to work (despite what we're told) but they're stuck on a loving treadmill where all their money goes to rent, food, car payments, doctors, etc. in ways that always trickle UP.

I have to hope that, eventually, the higher ups and the ones running the show will begin to realize that their wealth means nothing if we don't live in a functioning society or pay people enough to be able to afford the poo poo that makes them all rich in the first place but it looks to me that it's just greed and every man for himself all the way down. They can't put us ALL in prison or even function with waves of homeless people roving the streets.

More jails, fewer schools, people going broke with medical bills, broken infrastructure and ever rising rents because capitalism.

...

I also think that RWM has done irreversible damage to the national discourse and poisoned people's heads, many of whom are being elected to office.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:06

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 13:39

Cimber: Feb 3, 2014

ellasmith posted:

I wish this worked for me. Weed makes me feel lovely and paranoid. I�m killing myself with booze and I can�t stop.

Seriously? Not sure if i would be probed for this or not, but switching to delta-8 made a huge difference for me. I used to get paranoid as all hell from certain types of weed, but vaping D8 made a huge difference.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:06

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

ellasmith posted:

Any chance you could link me to somewhere that I could buy this and give it a shot? I live in a legal state for what it�s worth

dumb posts about scromiting aside, I hope you find something that works that isn't going hard on the booze. booze is great but it also sucks and makes everything worse

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:06

ellasmith: Sep 29, 2021; by Azathoth

Cimber posted:

Seriously? Not sure if i would be probed for this or not, but switching to delta-8 made a huge difference for me. I used to get paranoid as all hell from certain types of weed, but vaping D8 made a huge difference.

I�m 100% serious

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:08

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

ellasmith posted:

I�m 100% serious

You don't have PMs, but if you are really literally killing yourself with booze, you can talk to me (e-mails, whatever), you don't have to do that to yourself. And generally speaking, it's not a nice way to go.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:10

ellasmith: Sep 29, 2021; by Azathoth

I�m going to buy pms now. Please pm me

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:12

ihop: Jul 23, 2001; King of the Mexicans

Your forums membership also comes with FREE access to an exclusive subforum full of idiotic advice in this regard.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:15

ellasmith: Sep 29, 2021; by Azathoth

ending derail now sorry

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:19

Blind Rasputin: Nov 25, 2002; Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

A big flaming stink posted:

some lighter news, eve simmons is reporting the facts that Big Weed doesnt want you to know!

https://twitter.com/EveSimmns/status/1543262601517289473

https://twitter.com/EveSimmns/status/1543263481679360000

seriously "sunny (smelly)" is loving sending me lmao

This is so weird to me. I don�t know if they are just counting the number of hospital admissions/ED visits for any reason where the patient was positive for THC? Because I�m an acute care doc at a big PNW hospital and I have never once seen a case of psychosis, actual poisoning (not just intoxication), whatever the heck �scromiting� is, or any other illness actually directly attributed to MJ use. The only one is cyclic vomiting, which pinning on MJ use is half a diagnosis of exclusion, and is quite rare.

I just honestly don�t buy that this is factually accurate and not hyperbole. But that�s just my anecdotal experience.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Blind Rasputin posted:

This is so weird to me. I don�t know if they are just counting the number of hospital admissions/ED visits for any reason where the patient was positive for THC? Because I�m an acute care doc at a big PNW hospital and I have never once seen a case of psychosis, actual poisoning (not just intoxication), whatever the heck �scromiting� is, or any other illness actually directly attributed to MJ use. The only one is cyclic vomiting, which pinning on MJ use is half a diagnosis of exclusion, and is quite rare.

I just honestly don�t buy that this is factually accurate and not hyperbole. But that�s just my anecdotal experience.

The source is The Mail on Sunday, a pretty right-wing british tabloid in the full stereotype of the word; if you've heard of the Daily Mail, it's the same company.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:22

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

Cimber posted:

FWIW, I thought Clinton was going to win and be a 1 term POTUS. I especially thought Trump was sunk after the access Hollywood release.

Then Comey came and hosed everything up and here we are.

Same. Trump's win instantly radicalized me. I've been cynical about the structure of the US government for a while, but seeing a rapist game show host gain access to the nuclear codes absolutely incinerated any vestige of hope I had in our system.

And since that day, I've had a series of letdowns where anyone with the guts to vocalize the true nature of our problems gets ratfucked by the media / party insiders or marginalized. A lot of people are waking up to these harsh realities but I think it's just too little too late, and there are far too many obstacles to reversing any of the massive gains fascists have made. It sucks but I'd rather have a clear, sober image of what's really going on than continue to have naive hopes dashed.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:23

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Blind Rasputin posted:

This is so weird to me. I don�t know if they are just counting the number of hospital admissions/ED visits for any reason where the patient was positive for THC? Because I�m an acute care doc at a big PNW hospital and I have never once seen a case of psychosis, actual poisoning (not just intoxication), whatever the heck �scromiting� is, or any other illness actually directly attributed to MJ use. The only one is cyclic vomiting, which pinning on MJ use is half a diagnosis of exclusion, and is quite rare.

I just honestly don�t buy that this is factually accurate and not hyperbole. But that�s just my anecdotal experience.

Yeah it's complete bullshit, doubly so because people were already heavily exploring the upper bounds of thc potency and theoretical daily maximums of cannabis intake long before legalization and there's just zero evidence that cannabis is dangerous like that. Thc is stunningly safe if anything (not literally harmless, but very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go). If they were talking about one of the full-agonist synthetic cannabinoids I could absolutely see an increase in hospitalizations, but that's an entirely different thing which has nothing at all to do with state-level cannabis legalization.

the full agonist synthetic cannabinoids are legit scary, but they're also pretty much all federally illegal currently, afaik?

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

Same. Trump's win instantly radicalized me. I've been cynical about the structure of the US government for a while, but seeing a rapist game show host gain access to the nuclear codes absolutely incinerated any vestige of hope I had in our system.

And since that day, I've had a series of letdowns where anyone with the guts to vocalize the true nature of our problems gets ratfucked by the media / party insiders or marginalized. A lot of people are waking up to these harsh realities but I think it's just too little too late, and there are far too many obstacles to reversing any of the massive gains fascists have made. It sucks but I'd rather have a clear, sober image of what's really going on than continue to have naive hopes dashed.

I don't say this as a defense of things or anything, but the status quo has been every bit that hosed for as long as this country has existed, if not significantly moreso. For much of american history, almost certainly far, far moreso. IMO it sucks that there isn't a clear binary of 'efforts are pointless' or 'efforts work' but clearly things are malleable, albeit almost certainly not to an extent that is satisfying either in scope or speed. Basically full nihilism is stupid and accomplishes nothing, but also it's hard to be particularly optimistic. I especially do not know where the pragmatic balance is

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:27

Cimber: Feb 3, 2014

ellasmith posted:

ending derail now sorry

OP, whatever you are going through, you are not alone.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:31

Cimber: Feb 3, 2014

Herstory Begins Now posted:

the full agonist synthetic cannabinoids are legit scary, but they're also pretty much all federally illegal currently, afaik?

AFAIK, yeah, but the cannabinoid isomer Delta-8 thc is legal and is derived from hemp. I've found it does not give me the paranoids that delta-9 thc does. But this is also way getting off the political chat and should be moved to another thread.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:33

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Nameless Pete posted:

Marijuana > Alcoholics Anonymous

In my own personal experience, at least. Smoke weed everyday, haven't had a drink in three years. I would be dead right now without legalization.

Every day? It sounds like you've just replaced one addiction with another? AA is bad for a lot of reasons but there are other ways to get help and suggesting to people they just try to change dependencies seems like really hosed up advice to be giving in general

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:35

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

some plague rats posted:

Every day? It sounds like you've just replaced one addiction with another? AA is bad for a lot of reasons but there are other ways to get help

smoking an 8th a day will just make you smell bad and probably pretty unmotivated but it won't kill you. drinking a fifth a day will legit kill you. It's not ideal, but at least you're still alive to get help.

imo people should get help for whatever makes 24/7 self-medication feel necessary, because that's a bleak as hell place to be and no one should feel stuck there

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:37

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Yeah it's complete bullshit, doubly so because people were already heavily exploring the upper bounds of thc potency and theoretical daily maximums of cannabis intake long before legalization and there's just zero evidence that cannabis is dangerous like that. Thc is stunningly safe if anything (not literally harmless, but very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go). If they were talking about one of the full-agonist synthetic cannabinoids I could absolutely see an increase in hospitalizations, but that's an entirely different thing which has nothing at all to do with state-level cannabis legalization.

the full agonist synthetic cannabinoids are legit scary, but they're also pretty much all federally illegal currently, afaik?

Do you have some sources about its stunning safety? The CDC says as of 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/heart-health.html

quote:

Marijuana can make the heart beat faster and can make blood pressure higher immediately after use.1,2 It could also lead to increased risk of stroke, heart disease, and other vascular diseases.3-7 Most of the scientific studies linking marijuana to heart attacks and strokes are based on reports from people who smoked marijuana (as opposed to other methods of using it). Smoked marijuana delivers tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and other cannabinoids to the body. Marijuana smoke also delivers many of the same substances researchers have found in tobacco smoke�these substances are harmful to the lungs and cardiovascular system.8,9

It is hard to separate the effects of marijuana chemicals on the cardiovascular system from those caused by the irritants and other chemicals that are present in the smoke. More research is needed to understand the full impact of marijuana use on the cardiovascular system to determine if marijuana use leads to higher risk of death.

Some of this needed research came out earlier this year from Stanford, and I don�t think it points to stunning safety:

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/04/marijuana-heart-disease.html posted:

Marijuana linked to heart disease; supplement may mitigate risk, study reports
Marijuana use and heart-attack risk were correlated in a large human study, Stanford scientists and their collaborators found. A molecule in soybeans may counteract these effects.

marijuana cigarette
People who use marijuana have an increased risk of heart disease and heart attack, according to a large study led by researchers at Stanford Medicine.

The study also showed that the psychoactive component of the drug, known as THC, causes inflammation in endothelial cells that line the interior of blood vessels, as well as atherosclerosis in laboratory mice.

The inflammation and atherosclerosis can be blocked by a small molecule called genistein that occurs naturally in soy and fava beans, the researchers found. Because genistein has limited brain penetration, it doesn�t inhibit THC�s ability to stimulate appetite, dull pain and tamp down nausea � characteristics vital to medicinal marijuana users.

�As more states legalize the recreational use of marijuana, users need to be aware that it could have cardiovascular side effects,� said Joseph Wu, MD, PhD, professor of cardiovascular medicine and of radiology, and the director of the Stanford Cardiovascular Institute. �But genistein works quite well to mitigate marijuana-induced damage of the endothelial vessels without blocking the effects marijuana has on the central nervous system, and it could be a way for medical marijuana users to protect themselves from a cardiovascular standpoint.�

In part because THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, is a controlled substance in the United States and therefore strictly regulated in medical research, the investigators cautioned that the long-term health effects of regular use remain largely unclear.

�Marijuana has a significantly adverse effect on the cardiovascular system,� said instructor of medicine Mark Chandy, MD, PhD. �As more states legalize marijuana use, I expect we will begin to see a rise in heart attacks and strokes in the coming years. Our studies of human cells and mice clearly outline how THC exposure initiates a damaging molecular cascade in the blood vessels. It�s not a benign drug.�

Wu, who holds the Simon H. Stertzer, MD, Professorship, is the senior author of the study, which will be published online April 29 in Cell. Chandy shares lead authorship with former postdoctoral scholar Tzu-Tang Wei, PhD, and instructor Masataka Nishiga, MD.

THC and inflammation

The researchers analyzed the genetic and medical data of about 500,000 people ages 40-69. The data was from the UK Biobank. Nearly 35,000 participants reported smoking cannabis; of those, about 11,000 smoked more than once a month. The more-than-monthly smokers were significantly more likely than others in the study to have a heart attack after controlling for other factors including age, body mass index and sex. The researchers found that frequent marijuana smokers were also more likely than nonusers to have their first heart attack before the age of 50 � an unusual medical event called a premature heart attack that increases a person�s lifelong risk of subsequent heart attack, heart failure and life-threatening arrhythmias that can cause sudden death.

Inflammation of the blood vessels is a primary hallmark of atherosclerosis � the thickening of the vessel wall due to the buildup of plaques made up of fats, cholesterol and other substances � which can lead to heart attack. The researchers found that the levels of inflammatory molecules in the blood of volunteers who smoked a marijuana cigarette increased significantly over the subsequent three hours. They further showed that THC promotes inflammation and hallmarks of atherosclerosis in human endothelial cells grown in the laboratory. Finally, laboratory mice bred to have high cholesterol levels and fed a high-fat diet developed significantly larger atherosclerosis plaques when injected with THC at levels comparable to smoking one marijuana cigarette per day than did control animals.

THC binds to a receptor called CB1 on cells in the human brain, heart and vasculature system. The receptor recognizes naturally occurring cannabinoids, or endocannabinoids, which regulate mood, pain perception, immune function and metabolism. But frequent marijuana use causes inappropriate activation of CB1, which can cause inflammation and atherosclerosis, and it is associated with obesity, cancer and diabetes. Researchers have been trying to develop molecules called antagonists to block CB1�s function in conditions in which the receptor is overactive, like obesity, but until now the use of the antagonists has been thwarted by psychiatric side effects including mood disorders and anxiety arising from their activity in the brain.

Search for CB1 antagonists

The researchers used machine-learning techniques to screen a large database of protein structures and identify molecules structurally similar to previously identified CB1 antagonists that could block THC�s inflammatory and atherosclerotic properties without causing psychiatric side effects. They found that genistein, a naturally occurring molecule in soybeans, binds to CB1 but has poor brain penetration. When they added the genistein molecule to THC-treated human endothelial cells or gave it to the THC-injected mice with high cholesterol, they found genistein blocked the drug�s deleterious effects and did not block the psychoactive effects of THC on the brain.

As more states legalize the recreational use of marijuana, users need to be aware that it could have cardiovascular side effects.
�We didn�t see any blocking of the normal painkilling or sedating effects of THC in the mice that contribute to marijuana�s potentially useful medicinal properties,� Chandy said. �So genistein is potentially a safer drug than previous CB1 antagonists. It is already used as a nutritional supplement, and 99% of it stays outside the brain, so it shouldn�t cause these particular adverse side effects.�

The researchers hope to conduct clinical trials to learn whether genistein can reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease in marijuana users. They�d also like to extend their studies to include CBD � another cannabinoid in marijuana that does not have the psychoactive effects of THC.

�There�s a growing public perception that marijuana is harmless or even beneficial,� Wu said, comparing the legalization of marijuana use to vaping, which was first marketed as a safe way to stop smoking but has since been shown to cause lung damage and lead to increased tobacco use. �Marijuana clearly has important medicinal uses, but recreational users should think carefully about excessive use.�

Other Stanford authors of the study are graduate student Angela Zhang; postdoctoral scholars Kaavya Krishna Kumar, PhD, Dilip Thomas, PhD, Amit Manhas, PhD, and Johanne Marie Justesen, PhD; instructors of cardiovascular medicine Siyeon Rhee, PhD, and Chun Liu, PhD; cardiovascular fellow Ian Chen, MD, PhD; former postdoctoral scholars Saereh Khanamiri, PhD, and Hung-Ta Wo, MD; life sciences researcher Johnson Yang, former graduate student Frederick Seidl, PhD; Noah Burns, PhD, associate professor of chemistry; Nazish Sayed, MD, PhD, assistant professor of vascular surgery; Manuel Rivas, PhD, assistant professor of biomedical data science; and Brian Kobilka, PhD, professor of molecular and cellular physiology.

Researchers from National Taiwan University, the University of Copenhagen, Academia Sinica, the University of Colorado School of Medicine and UC-San Francisco also contributed to the work.

The research was supported by the Stanford Cardiovascular Institute, the American Heart Association, the Steven M. Gootter Foundation, the Taiwan Ministry of Science and Technology, the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons, the Leducq Foundation, and the Tobacco-Related Disease Research Program.

Just because alcohol isn�t safe doesn�t mean cannabis is stunningly safe or even close.

mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:38

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Addiction in and of itself is not a bad thing. I am addicted to posting on this board and playing stupid games on my phone.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:38

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Blind Rasputin posted:

This is so weird to me. I don�t know if they are just counting the number of hospital admissions/ED visits for any reason where the patient was positive for THC? Because I�m an acute care doc at a big PNW hospital and I have never once seen a case of psychosis, actual poisoning (not just intoxication), whatever the heck �scromiting� is, or any other illness actually directly attributed to MJ use. The only one is cyclic vomiting, which pinning on MJ use is half a diagnosis of exclusion, and is quite rare.

I just honestly don�t buy that this is factually accurate and not hyperbole. But that�s just my anecdotal experience.

eh, every couple years some outlet has to publish an anti-weed story for whatever reason, and it usually makes the outlet look like the National Review or any other old-fogey rag.

Remember MoDo's experience eating like 100 mg of weed candy in Colorado & tripping the gently caress out? A classic. eta: in the NYT

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:40

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

mawarannahr posted:

Do you have some sources about its stunning safety? The CDC says as of 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/heart-health.html

Some of this needed research came out earlier this year from Stanford, and I don�t think it points to stunning safety:

Just because alcohol isn�t safe doesn�t mean cannabis is stunningly safe or even close.

"Thc is stunningly safe if anything (not literally harmless, but very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go)."

If you can find me thc deaths or even thc hospitalizations that are not absolutely trivial compared to the scale of thc use then I will happily concede the point. But again, the key part there is "very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go"

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:41

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Herstory Begins Now posted:

smoking an 8th a day will just make you smell bad and probably pretty unmotivated but it won't kill you. drinking a fifth a day will legit kill you. It's not ideal, but at least you're still alive to get help.

imo people should get help for whatever makes 24/7 self-medication feel necessary, because that's a bleak as hell place to be and no one should feel stuck there

Yeah that second part is the relevant one- switching from alcohol to weed isn't curing the problem, you're just putting a different colour band-aid on the wound. If that's what you want to do then okay, I'm not your mom or your therapist, but offering it up as a helpful suggestion like people were doing here is Not A Good Thing To Do

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:44

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

some plague rats posted:

Yeah that second part is the relevant one- switching from alcohol to weed isn't curing the problem, you're just putting a different colour band-aid on the wound. If that's what you want to do then okay, I'm not your mom or your therapist, but offering it up as a helpful suggestion like people were doing here is Not A Good Thing To Do

it's not good and I don't think anyone said it is good, but it is better than literally drinking oneself to death

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:45

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Herstory Begins Now posted:

"Thc is stunningly safe if anything (not literally harmless, but very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go)."

If you can find me thc deaths or even thc hospitalizations that are not absolutely trivial compared to the scale of thc use then I will happily concede the point. But again, the key part there is "very hard to damage yourself with as far as psychoactive substances go"

Some of these statistics are located in the UNODC report I linked above. Sadly I genuinely cannot read them at this moment, idk if they�re down or my ISP has issues, but I had quoted a relevant part from the summary in the SC thread. (Please let me know if you can access it at the provided URL, https://bit.ly/3myimsC )

quote:

- Cannabis legalization appears to have accelerated the upwards trends in reported daily use of the drug, with a pronounced increase in reported frequent use of high-potency products among young adults.
- In contrast, the prevalence of cannabis use among adolescents has not changed much.
- The proportion of people with psychiatric disorders and suicides associated with regular cannabis use has increased, as has the number of hospitalizations due to cannabis use disorders.
- Cannabis products have diversified, and average levels of THC in the various cannabis products have continued to increase, to levels up to 60 per cent in some markets.
- The growing influence and investments of large corporations, including those in the alcohol and tobacco sectors, is evident in the legal cannabis industry. Tax revenues from the legalized market have continued to rise. The illegal cannabis market is shrinking in some jurisdictions, but it continues to exist alongside legal markets.
- Legalization has led to a major reduction in the number and rates of arrest of people for cannabis-related offences. However, since possession of cannabis remains a criminal offence for minors, legalization has not led to a substantial reduction in youth arrest rates.

POLICY IMPLICATIONS
- Continue to monitor the impact of cannabis legalization, in particular on public health, the rule of law, public safety and the parallel illegal market, to better understand associated social and economic costs.
- Invest in research into the effects of cannabis use, especially the health consequences of the use of cannabis products with high THC content, including on youth, women and women during pregnancy.
- Address misperceptions of the risks of cannabis use through evidence-based prevention messages, targeting youth in particular.
- Prioritize public health and safety as commercial interests lobby to expand the market for legal cannabis. Draw from the lessons learned from the tobacco, alcohol and ultra-processed food industries, as well as the pharmaceutical industry and documented cases where the pursuit of commercial interests has targeted vulnerable or dis- advantaged groups, and competed with public health concerns.

Now I�m going to apply for a UNODC grant for evidence-based prevention messages targeting the youth of the forums

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:48

Lassitude: Oct 21, 2003

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

She's probably talking about CHS, which some people get when consuming high potency cannabis products.

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html

The rest of it just sounds like moral panic bullshit.

Just lol at someone smoking a joint once and then having a screaming and vomiting attack like it was laced with poison.

Cyclic vomiting is pretty much the same thing. Neither involves screaming, just hours of nausea/vomiting. In the ED these folks typically just get a basin to vomit in, an IV for fluids, some ondansetron, and a pat on the back. Given that some studies suggest cannabis legalization reduces the incidence of other drug use, I'll call it a win. Million times preferable to people with alcohol/opioid toxicities. I haven't seen any really good meta studies on that last part yet but I'm optimistic it'll pan out.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:49

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

mawarannahr posted:

Some of these statistics are located in the UNODC report I linked above. Sadly I genuinely cannot read them at this moment, idk if they�re down or my ISP has issues, but I had quoted a relevant part from the summary in the SC thread. (Please let me know if you can access it at the provided URL, https://bit.ly/3myimsC )

Now I�m going to apply for a UNODC grant for evidence-based prevention messages targeting the youth of the forums

You didn't link any unodc report above?

also do you know the actual #s for "- The proportion of people with psychiatric disorders and suicides associated with regular cannabis use has increased, as has the number of hospitalizations due to cannabis use disorders." Because while that is certainly bad and indeed is proof that cannabis is not literally harmless, that is an incredibly miniscule number of people relative to total users.

Fact is that if cannabis was killing people or was significantly lethal at the massive scale it is used at there would be huge numbers of bodies and even people who fearmonger about it have never been able to find even a few deaths to point at.

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:58

Blind Rasputin: Nov 25, 2002; Farewell, good Hunter. May you find your worth in the waking world.

I remember during my grad school years in hypothalamus research the cannabinoid blocker rimonabant was being used as an appetite suppressant. It worked incredibly well and trial participants lost a significant amount of weight. But the trial had to be cut short because there were stunningly high levels of severe depression and suicidality. Blocking the weed receptors in the brain is no good.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 22:59

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

some plague rats posted:

Yeah that second part is the relevant one- switching from alcohol to weed isn't curing the problem, you're just putting a different colour band-aid on the wound. If that's what you want to do then okay, I'm not your mom or your therapist, but offering it up as a helpful suggestion like people were doing here is Not A Good Thing To Do

If you are actually a bona-fide alcoholic, then many of those people have (or once had) a good life with a good job and were happy with their family until alcohol made everything go to poo poo. And even in the face of horrible and obvious consequences or ultimatums they still often can't stop.

It isn't always that people try to numb their mind to get away from bad poo poo, alcoholics just REALLY like being drunk all the time. That is extremely difficult to break from, and marijuana is often the only easy answer if you won't tolerate the religious bullshit that should be ignored from AA.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:00

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Herstory Begins Now posted:

You didn't link any unodc report above?

also do you know the actual #s for "- The proportion of people with psychiatric disorders and suicides associated with regular cannabis use has increased, as has the number of hospitalizations due to cannabis use disorders." Because while that is certainly bad and indeed is proof that cannabis is not literally harmless, that is an incredibly miniscule number of people relative to total users.

Fact is that if cannabis was killing people or was significantly lethal at the massive scale it is used at there would be huge numbers of bodies and even people who fearmonger about it have never been able to find even a few deaths to point at.

It�s this one, I just can�t seem to access UNODC.org at all atm (do tell if you can) https://twitter.com/unodc/status/1541428669473865729

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:04

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Rigel posted:

It isn't always that people try to numb their mind to get away from bad poo poo, alcoholics just REALLY like being drunk all the time.

Oh my god are you for real

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:05

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Unless there have been some new breakthroughs in the last two years that I missed, the only long-term medical problems with THC that have been scientifically proven are:

1) It can trigger early symptoms of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder in young people with a specific gene.
2) It can cause permanent damage to short-term memory if you are under 25 and use large doses for extended periods of time.
3) People who use heavily in youth (under 25) can have permanent minor cognitive decline. People older than 25 don't show any long-term decline.

Technically, smoking it heavily can cause long-term lung or cardiovascular problems, but that is from the act of smoking and not THC itself.

There are short-term issues with depression/suicide attempts increasing when using THC, but just not doing it anymore fixes that. There's a bunch of other studies that show that long-term depression/suicide/alcohol use is associated with pot use, but they haven't 100% confirmed the long-term effects and there are conflicting studies.

Other than those 3 things, you can stop using THC for two weeks and you shouldn't have any symptoms of dependence or health problems associated with using THC.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:06

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Blind Rasputin posted:

I remember during my grad school years in hypothalamus research the cannabinoid blocker rimonabant was being used as an appetite suppressant. It worked incredibly well and trial participants lost a significant amount of weight. But the trial had to be cut short because there were stunningly high levels of severe depression and suicidality. Blocking the weed receptors in the brain is no good.

d9-thc's safety specifically is because it only partially binds to cannabinoid receptors to the extent that it's basically impossible to have a life-threatening overdose on. Other cannabinoids bind far better and several of the synthetic cannabinoids which were full agonists had really, really horrible potentials for overdose (and the overdoses were both dangerous and psychologically very damaging) because yeah you really don't want to badly mess up your endocannabinoid system. thc specifically is just an outlier in its comparative lack of potential for harm as far as substances potent enough to be recreationally psychoactive go.

some plague rats posted:

Oh my god are you for real

Alcohol is physically addicting and one of the most common ways that people become addicted is because they just enjoy drinking and drink nightly for a bunch of years without really thinking about it. Then oh hey turns out you get shakes and extreme cravings to drink if you don't drink for a night. So yeah a lot of people do become addicted to alcohol literally just because they find it pleasant to drink regularly. This is particularly common in people in their 20s who just get in the habit of nightly drinking before several years later realizing that it's taking a physical toll on them and that actually it's really hard to stop.

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:06

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Weed helped me get through the Trump years of bullshit and I don't ancitipate the bullshit levels decreasing any going forward. Thank loving God that weed is legal in WA

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:15

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

some plague rats posted:

Oh my god are you for real

uhhh... yes? People who aren't really hard-core alcoholics and who just drink booze to escape problems or to avoid dealing with poo poo like what you see in movies or sitcoms are real too, I'm not saying that doesn't exist. But that is not really hard to fix. Someone you care about gives you a very firm talk, you go to therapy, and if you deal with whatever is going on, great.

Alcoholics have an intense attraction to alcohol. It doesn't just go away from dealing with other issues, they simply like alcohol and have to figure out a way to stop, either through religious bullshit, substituting something like weed, or white-knuckling it with sheer willpower. I've listened to hundreds of these people in AA meetings (before I finally couldn't take the religious poo poo and stopped going). How many alcoholics do you talk to?

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:16

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Discendo Vox posted:

The source is The Mail on Sunday, a pretty right-wing british tabloid in the full stereotype of the word; if you've heard of the Daily Mail, it's the same company.

"Pretty right wing" in much the same way that building a tower of human skulls is "a bit grotty".

The Mail on Sunday has a different editorial policy but same owners and those owners are descendents of the one that considered Hitler a good thing.

Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:24

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

Unormal posted:

If you're reading this thread and getting hopelessly freaked out about the future predicted by goons in D&D, just remember that the goons in D&D are not any good at predicting the future.

People should be a little worried about the coming recession and it's unknown severity.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:29

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

e: you know what, this sucks to talk about and I'm not really interested in discussing it any more here

some plague rats fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:33

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Yes a lot of people become alcoholics for reasons other than trying to drink themselves into the abyss every night. We live in societies that normalize ridiculous amounts of alcohol consumption and alcoholics come in all shapes and sizes and reasons for drinking.

If anything the really severe '1.5 liters of hard alcohol a night to not feel anything' people are less common because 1) it's so destructive that it forces a crisis that tends to either get them sober or incarcerated or 2) it's so physically damaging that it just outright kills them in a couple of years. and 3) there're a lot of other, probably more effective ways to blast yourself into oblivion every night than booze. Conversely people can cruise by as moderate alcoholics for years and years or even decades before something happens that forces them to stop/get treatment. Usually it's DUIs or partners leaving or loving up something really big at work or the like that finally gets them into some kind of treatment.

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Jul 3, 2022

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:36

Push El Burrito: May 9, 2006; Soiled Meat

I come from a long line of alcoholics. Each one more alcoholy than the last. I was probably heading that way but then I did weed and that's my biggest vice next to diet soda. It rules and I can pretty easily regulate a couple of drinks with weed when I'm out at a bar with friends or whatever whereas before I had easy access to weed I would drink to a stupor.

A friend of mine also regulates his OCD with it and prescribed medicine and I've noticed a MASSIVE change in his behavior. Basically we do need to formally study weed and its effects but man has it helped a ton of people I personally know so for me anecdotes is better than data right now. We're currently trying to figure out how to convince my grandmother it's not the devil's drug because she has back pain and no appetite and that's two things marijuana has been proven to help. My uncle was dying of cancer and grew his own before it was medicinal in basically any state and his reply when asked if he got caught was "what are they gonna do, kill me?"

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:39

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

some plague rats posted:

Not really interested in getting into my personal history with alcoholism to try and win some dumb internet argument, honestly. But I mean seriously what the gently caress are you talking about? There are people who are like alcoholics but instead of being actually medically dependent they just really like drinking? You're just coming out here and saying some poo poo that flies in the face of all the medical and therapeutic understanding of addiction and treatment and your citation is "trust me, I totally heard people say so"?

Why do you believe that what I said contradicts anything that medical professionals and addiction specialists think?

There probably is some kind of a genetic component to it, most people can just simply have a couple beers on the weekend and be fine. Not my family. People who are not alcoholics often do not understand at all why an alcoholic can't "just have a couple" or only drink on Saturday, and that there MUST be some other reason for it that they refuse to deal with. Well no, that is often not true.

# ? Jul 3, 2022 23:40

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 13:39

-Blackadder-: Jan 2, 2007; Game....Blouses.

LetThemFight.jpg
https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1543597783269216259
https://twitter.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1543056220541550592

From Cheney's interview today.

Committee corroborated Hutchinson's testimony
Committee may recommend charges to DOJ for Trump and others (but DOJ doesn't have to wait).
She'll make a decision to run in '24 later.

Trump could announce as early as this month. He clearly sees his window closing, the further along the investigation goes, the more the rats desert the ship.

It's unlikely Cheney wins in Wyoming, but if she runs in 2024 and manages to Ross Perot Trump on her revenge crusade, the Cheney name will go down in history as some kind of Republican urban legend.

Even if she didn't have a significant impact on Trump's numbers it would drive him absolutely up the wall that she's in the race. And they might as well have WWE host the debates.

# ? Jul 4, 2022 00:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

«‹›279 »