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Dawgstar posted:Was Loeb Heroes' showrunner? He worked on the show, don't quite remember what his title was. The main thing I remember from that show was an end of episode stinger with three new people with powers, then the next episode one of those people wasn't in it and never referenced again.
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Jun 30, 2022 20:51
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One thing I've learned is that if Jeph Loeb is involved in any meaningful capacity, expect the finished product to crash and burn. In fact, Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine taught me to assume that if anyone involved in Lost is involved you should assume the product will also be late, possibly unbelievably so.
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Jul 1, 2022 04:35
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ManiacClown posted:One thing I've learned is that if Jeph Loeb is involved in any meaningful capacity, expect the finished product to crash and burn. In fact, Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine taught me to assume that if anyone involved in Lost is involved you should assume the product will also be late, possibly unbelievably so. I still hold a grudge for Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. "Kids don't like serialized storytelling." Well, maybe not when you do it, but they were fine with it up until you came on the show.
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Jul 1, 2022 17:43
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Strange #3   
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Jul 2, 2022 08:14
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Dawgstar posted:I still hold a grudge for Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. "Kids don't like serialized storytelling." Well, maybe not when you do it, but they were fine with it up until you came on the show. What a ridiculous thing to say! Serialized storytelling blows kids minds. They love that stuff
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Jul 3, 2022 05:47
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thetoughestbean posted:What a ridiculous thing to say! Serialized storytelling blows kids minds. They love that stuff If only Loeb was familiar with a medium that built itself on serialized storytelling for kids.
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Jul 3, 2022 11:52
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Loeb is only familiar with his own rear end, for he is incredibly far up it.
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Jul 3, 2022 12:35
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thetoughestbean posted:What a ridiculous thing to say! Serialized storytelling blows kids minds. They love that stuff Seriously, when I was a kid the Power Rangers storyline Green With Evil (a five(!) part story in a series that hadn't even had a two-parter so far) blew my mind. I loved it and didn't even know that doing TV like that was possible back then.
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Jul 3, 2022 12:59
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TwoPair posted:Strange #3 Man, ever since Rose returned, he's lost to EVERYBODY in super humiliating ways. Dude's rich, he really should just learn something from this and retire.
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Jul 4, 2022 14:39
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Loeb is only familiar with his own rear end, for he is incredibly far up it. Someone very, very high up loves that dude and has made it the entire industry's problem for decades now.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:16
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I don't want to pathologize someone I've never met, but most of his worst comic sins all occurred after his pre-teen son died, so I think that might have broken his brain a bit.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:27
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Nah I'm leaving grace for the son dying. That poo poo is genuinely sad. Anyone would be hosed up and putting out poo poo work after that. Even before then though he's just a parasite, a chronic remixer of what other people did before. It's fun if your only exposure to Batman prior is The Animated Series or the TV show because it's very familiar-feeling to just see every villain exit conga-line style chapter after chapter but it quickly becomes dogshit. His best work is probably "For All Seasons" just because he limits himself solely to Luthor as a featured player and even then could barely squeeze four issues out of it. Some points for actually giving a gently caress about Daredevil's early period I guess? Either way look at his original creations when he isn't just ordering top talent artists to go through the roster of famous characters-- Hush? Imperiex? Dude just has no real faculty for anything that isn't a pantomime of what other people did better, except this time drawn by a god-tier artist like Jim Lee or Ed McGuiness.
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Jul 4, 2022 15:40
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Even Loeb’s “good stuff” is mostly rehashed stuff done better by others, and Sale absolutely carried a lot of the weight there. Doesn’t the ending not even work in Long Halloween no matter how you look at it
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Jul 4, 2022 16:24
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Opopanax posted:Even Loeb’s “good stuff” is mostly rehashed stuff done better by others, and Sale absolutely carried a lot of the weight there. Doesn’t the ending not even work in Long Halloween no matter how you look at it Long Halloween makes absolutely no sense if you try and solve the plot. But the same is true of the classic Bogart Film The Big Sleep.
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Jul 4, 2022 16:27
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TwoPair posted:Strange #3 For anyone as confused by this as I was: there's a new Strange (volume 3) that kicked off earlier this year. This isn't the 2004 or 2010 miniseries by the same name.
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Jul 4, 2022 17:27
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Skwirl posted:Long Halloween makes absolutely no sense if you try and solve the plot. But the same is true of the classic Bogart Film The Big Sleep. Raymond Chandler said even he doesn't know who killed the chauffer in The Big Sleep.. Dude used to write himself into a corner and then have two goons with guns come in to get the story moving again, a methodology that would be better than whatever Loeb was working with when he wrote Ultimates 3.
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Jul 4, 2022 18:11
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Fil5000 posted:Raymond Chandler said even he doesn't know who killed the chauffer in The Big Sleep.. Dude used to write himself into a corner and then have two goons with guns come in to get the story moving again, a methodology that would be better than whatever Loeb was working with when he wrote Ultimates 3. Doesn't Ultimates 3 open with Wasp condescendingly telling Cap he's getting cerebral vapor lock from thinking about Pietro and Wanda having sex and that it's not the 40s anymore, grandpa-who-I'm-banging, get with the program, incest is best? And then later the Blob says of Wasp, "Tastes like chicken," and not in a sexual way? And the artist apparently didn't get the note that Wasp was supposed to be an Asian-American woman and drew her differently from the first couple of series of the Ultimates? Or was it another series where the whole experiment just went terribly wrong? eta: why am I only remembering the terrible parts that are connected with the Wasp? I remember The Whole Thing was pretty bad but maybe she was just abused egregiously in the series?
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Jul 4, 2022 18:19
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No, that's the one.
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Jul 4, 2022 18:20
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Yeah you nailed it, it's loving awful. Millar made them all cartoonish assholes, Loeb made them all creepy and gross.
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Jul 4, 2022 18:24
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The biggest problem with both Batman’s stories is they just feel like excuses for every major villain to appear in one story
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Jul 4, 2022 19:07
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Fil5000 posted:Yeah you nailed it, it's loving awful. Millar made them all cartoonish assholes, Loeb made them all creepy and gross. which one write the cannibal rapist hulk Admiralty Flag posted:eta: why am I only remembering the terrible parts that are connected with the Wasp? I remember The Whole Thing was pretty bad but maybe she was just abused egregiously in the series? everything to do with the wasp was terrifyingly hosed up.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:47
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You are both right and wrong. The Wasp "Incest is the best, put your sister to the test!" stuff was from The Ultimates 3. Along with other joyus bits like a Tony Stark/Black Widow sex tape being released, that all the Ultimates watch in their meeting room (which now looks strangely like Avengers Manor instead of the Triskelon.) where Tony is like "I definitely banged Natasha. And I would have had sex with her like this. But I didn't record this tape. Or leak it." (I think the resolution was Mystique was in the tape. But it's not like that resolves the mystery. Did Tony not realize he was loving a woman who now looks like is dead-ex? Maybe Mastermind or Mesmero were also involved.) Oh and it had a scene where Thor is sparing with new hire Valkyre (who went from previously being a normal person who thought she was a superhero to an actual Asguardian) Thor: Your battle skills are superb! Valkyre: You should see my skills....IN BED!* The whole thing had Joe Madura art and I think the plot was about the Savage Land and the Brotherhood. And Scarlet Witch dies? And Ultron was also there. It was a bad story but still like a superhero comic. Albeit a bad one where the writer forgot all about the differences between the Ultimate and 616 universe and just pushed along the story. The Blob eating the Wasp stuff comes from Ultimatium. Which is all the problems of Ultimate 3 (Magneto has Mjolnor. Which looks like the 616 hammer and not the Ultimate style axe-hammer.) With the added bonus of David Finch art. And the tone this time is like a Disaster movie that was rated 18's** and the writer was given permission to kill someone in a gruesome manner every 4 pages. *= Some wikipedia searching tells me the Valkyre stuff might be from Ultimate Comics: New Ultimates. The series Loeb did After Ultimatium. **= What you humans would call Rated R. The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 4, 2022 |
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Jul 4, 2022 22:47
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I have a big soft spot for Ultimate stuff and reread big chunks of it every few years, but if I were giving someone new to a reading order I would straight up advise skipping Ultimates 3. Ultimatum is also terrible but the art is decent and its got some important story bits; 3 is just godawful. The Joey Mad art is awful, the writing is awful, nobody acts in character or makes any kind of sense and the story has no bearing on the larger Ultimate Universe story. It sets up Ultimatum but all you need to know is someone shot Wanda (which isn't even a spoiler since its subtitled "Who Killed the Scarlet Witch"). It's one of the worst mainstream books ever written/drawn
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Jul 5, 2022 00:20
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Didn't Ultimates 3 have some weird dumb thing with Black Panther as well?
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Jul 5, 2022 00:32
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muscles like this! posted:Didn't Ultimates 3 have some weird dumb thing with Black Panther as well? Kind of. It was Cap in disguise for no reason.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:37
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The Question IRL posted:The Wasp "Incest is the best, put your sister to the test!" stuff was from The Ultimates 3. I can still remember the panel. Wasp is all "They're in love." Cap responds "Well, yes, of course they love each other they're brother and sister." Wasp, hand over heart like it's the most touching thing ever "No... they're in love."
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Jul 5, 2022 03:15
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Dawgstar posted:I can still remember the panel. Wasp is all "They're in love." Cap responds "Well, yes, of course they love each other they're brother and sister." Wasp, hand over heart like it's the most touching thing ever "No... they're in love." The funniest thing was it being painted like Fuddy Duddy Captain America isn't down with the modern day incest. Though I suppose today they could just hastily slap "step" in front of sibling.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:47
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All of that bullshit and the thing that annoys me most is Magneto getting Mjolnir. I'm not sure why *that's* the bit that sticks out at me.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:42
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Ultimatum has a lot of stupid deaths. Like the endless pack of suicide Maddox blowing up Antman? I think magneto kills wolverine by controlling cyclops’ (magnetic??) visor? poo poo was wild. Ultimate doom/mystery/whatever was a more fun yet equally insane story.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:51
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Having like half the X-men drown off panel was certainly a choice as well
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Jul 5, 2022 15:22
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plainswalker75 posted:Having like half the X-men drown off panel was certainly a choice as well Was that Ultimatum and the wave that kills half of New York City? Cause if so, yah that was dumb. They killed off DareDevil and Doctor Strange after some pretty interesting tweaks of the characters for the Ultimate Universe.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:30
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Originally it was going to be the end of the Ultimate Universe so they didn't really make any considerations and just let Loeb run around the beach smashing as many sandcastle as he could, but then they decided to keep it going and had to make sense of everything.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:57
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Malachite_Dragon posted:All of that bullshit and the thing that annoys me most is Magneto getting Mjolnir. I'm not sure why *that's* the bit that sticks out at me. So Magneto explicitly on-panel animates and steals a stone hammer using his powers of magnetism. It's probably gut-check dumber than that time he hypnotized someone with his magnetic personality.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:24
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ImpAtom posted:The funniest thing was it being painted like Fuddy Duddy Captain America isn't down with the modern day incest. In retrospect, what strikes me as the funniest part is that Loeb is now in the position of having been less subtle than Mark Millar about something. Yes, every time we saw Pietro and Wanda in Millar's Ultimates, they were sharing a sumptuous Tuscan retreat or boating together on a Venetian canal, but maybe they're just mutual fans of travel. Wanderer fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 16:56
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I had completely forgotten that 3 and ultimatum weren't one and the same, probably because I read them once, at the time, and have never felt the need to revisit. It hosed up what potential they had, even if it was all a bit war on terror grim.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:04
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ImpAtom posted:The funniest thing was it being painted like Fuddy Duddy Captain America isn't down with the modern day incest. It's probably needless to say that even when written by Millar, the Cap and Wasp relationship was weird. Since Millar decided to... ha ha... revisit the Ant-Man domestic abuse thing Wasp just kind of winds up with Cap and they have absolutely nothing in common and to quote Pearl Forrester of MST3K, "It goes nowhere and features nothing."
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Jul 5, 2022 18:01
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Loeb's entire Ultimates series was, indeed, godawful. I remember how in the leadup to the release of Ultimates 3 they released the first few pages and we in BSS all agreed that it looked terrible. It really says something that Gavok and I got multiple comments along the lines that what we were doing made more sense than what Loeb was doing despite the fact that Thor was Santa and Hawkeye went after Spider-Man for stealing his Twinkies. We did agree from the beginning that Sam Loeb was off limits for jokes— after all, there's such a thing as basic decency— but there was a time or two that we called Jeph Loeb out for the fact that he was trying to use his writing as therapy and failing miserably on both fronts. By the way, I just checked 4thletter.net and the server seems to be hosed. If anyone wants to read the Ultimate Edit saga, have at it.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:11
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Dawgstar posted:It's probably needless to say that even when written by Millar, the Cap and Wasp relationship was weird. Since Millar decided to... ha ha... revisit the Ant-Man domestic abuse thing Wasp just kind of winds up with Cap and they have absolutely nothing in common and to quote Pearl Forrester of MST3K, "It goes nowhere and features nothing." iirc Janet broke up with him eventually exactly because of that
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Jul 5, 2022 18:13
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Given everything else that was The Ultimates, it would have been kinda weird to not revisit the Ant-Man/Wasp abuse thing if you were gonna have them as characters. It would have been a sword of Damacles hanging over everything. I think the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon handled it well by just having Hank Pym go kinda crazy without actually physically abusing Janet (to get back to Jeph Loeb ruining things).
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Jul 5, 2022 18:19
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ImpAtom posted:The funniest thing was it being painted like Fuddy Duddy Captain America isn't down with the modern day incest. Polaris: Great. Just great. Pietro has skipped me to go to his actual Sister. Now what am I going to do with this specially made washing machine?
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Jul 5, 2022 21:58
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