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MrMojok posted:It’s getting crazier how the further I go, I realize much of the later seasons of this show I’ve either forgotten or just blocked out. Dillane was loving great as Stannis, easily one of the best castings even if the character was obviously an rear end in a top hat. Malpractice what the show runners did to that storyline.
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Jul 4, 2022 21:11
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As Nero Danced posted:RIP Syrio Forel. When? Still do, homie. It makes the end of the show not quite as stupid. Somehow.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:15
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Arya doesn’t actually exist after the end of S1, it’s all just Syrio.
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Jul 4, 2022 22:24
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Syrio Forel is also Bran, Varys, Hot Pie, Ollie, and that greyjoy guy who Jaime killed on a random beach for some reason. That's why he had the best story and became king, he was like eight different people Edit: also the unnamed Dornish Prince Piell fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 4, 2022 |
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Jul 4, 2022 22:25
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If my rewatch posts are getting annoying, by all means, tell me so. I don’t want to irritate anyone. But continuing on for the moment, the posts I see ITT keep reminding me that I need to get on with reading the books, because there are so many plot lines and character developments that the show shortchanged. Like, I’ve just watched seasons 1-5 and perhaps I’m a bit dense, but I don’t fully understand how these Sparrows were able to take such power in King’s Landing. I understand that Cersei enabled them in order to gently caress over her enemies, but the actually logistics and timeline don’t make any sense to me. Not to the point where they could do whatever the hell they wanted to, and it goes from them being fairly insignificant to having the authority and power to imprison not only Margaery but Cersei herself, and the King is powerless to do anything about it, because they just are. Surely this was fleshed out a little better in the books. That’s just one example. Someone just posted above in response to my mentioning of Stannis that his arc was butchered, and I know dozens more examples from this thread and the previous threads I read as the show aired. I really do love seasons 1-3 of this show, I like a lot of 4, and that one has Arya/Sandor which is my favorite thing of all, but it’s also very uneven. But I felt at the time things really started to slip a lot more in S5. And as I recall, it got much worse from there. I almost don’t want to continue rewatching but now due to sunken cost fallacy I feel like I have to. Anyway I’m sorry for my rambling and feel free to tell me to shut up if you like.
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Jul 4, 2022 23:40
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MrMojok posted:This morning I’ve seen the awful Jamie/Bronn vs. Sand Snakes fight, leading to the poisoning of Ser Bronn by the cowardly Lady Tyene of Badpussy. The Arya assassin training that makes no sense at all. Is that the really twirly one in the courtyard?
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Jul 4, 2022 23:51
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MrMojok posted:the actually logistics and timeline don’t make any sense to me. MrMojok posted:don’t make any sense This is GoT going forward. Strap in buddy. Why do things happen? Because. MrMojok posted:I almost don’t want to continue rewatching but now due to sunken cost fallacy I feel like I have to. 
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Jul 4, 2022 23:54
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So many things like that don't seem implausible to me at all given what's happened over the last nine years. A theme of Game of Thrones is that power lies wherever people say it does, and that's really all that matters. People attempted to overthrow the US government two years ago and we're still waffling on whether or not that was even a crime, much less one to be punished. The religious right taking over King's Landing is one of the most realistic things in the show, for my money. When things are poo poo for the populace, they'll turn to regressive religion and fascism, and whichever rises first will absorb the other to grow stronger.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:47
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Heh, these are excellent points.
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Jul 5, 2022 00:48
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The Sparrows aren't out to punish sinners in the books, they're a popular movement that wants to hold the highborn accountable for the things the faith and the commoners have suffered since Ned Stark's death. We don't have that much insight into what it's like for commoners in Westeros but it sounds like there's a good degree of anarchy outside the cities and even the seven's equivalent of a nun can't walk down the road safely.
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Jul 5, 2022 02:42
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After the beginning of the war in book 1, every now and then you'd have a PoV character travelling down the road and coming across commoners who lost everything and are fleeing the war seeking refuge in king's landing, and septons, nuns and other religious figures trying to bring comfort to the people, burying and offering prayer for the death, etc. Then sometime around book 3-4 the High Sparrow is shown (I think Brienne is the one that meets him) traveling along the Kingsroad leading a bunch of pilgrims and arrives in King's Landing and then the rest goes pretty much like the show, except it's a movement against the people in power and not the Naughty Police. The show depicted the Sparrows as a fanatic cult, whereas in the book not so much yet at least. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 02:48
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TOOT BOOT posted:The Sparrows aren't out to punish sinners in the books, they're a popular movement that wants to hold the highborn accountable for the things the faith and the commoners have suffered since Ned Stark's death. We don't have that much insight into what it's like for commoners in Westeros but it sounds like there's a good degree of anarchy outside the cities and even the seven's equivalent of a nun can't walk down the road safely. Honestly I'm an atheist and I thought the treatment in the show of religion was one of the areas where D&D showed their hand in a negative way. Same with their treatment of peasants. Religion is just closeminded bigotry that no one but insane people actually believe in (despite the supernatural definitely existing in this reality) and the peasants are too stupid to have agency.
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Jul 5, 2022 03:34
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Also of note, in the books the walk of shame was not a power flex move by the High Sparrow but instead proposed by Kevan Lannister as a means to apeace the masses and faith militants, after which the church and the crown have a better relationship. Which is explicitly why Varys then kills Kevan because he was fixing all the mess caused by Cersei kicking the hornet's nest, and he needs her to cause enough chaos that the Targaryen invasion goes down smoothly
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Jul 5, 2022 04:06
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TOOT BOOT posted:even the seven's equivalent of a nun can't walk down the road safely. I'm from Philly, trust me when I say I understand it when septa can't go down a street without it being a safety concern.
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Jul 5, 2022 04:09
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Baron von Eevl posted:I'm from Philly, trust me when I say I understand it when septa can't go down a street without it being a safety concern. 
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Jul 5, 2022 08:22
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lezard_valeth posted:Also of note, in the books the walk of shame was not a power flex move by the High Sparrow but instead proposed by Kevan Lannister as a means to apeace the masses and faith militants, after which the church and the crown have a better relationship. Varys leaving King's Landing with Tyrion was, in hindsight, the exact moment when the show fell apart.
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Jul 5, 2022 12:18
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Alhazred posted:Varys leaving King's Landing with Tyrion was, in hindsight, the exact moment when the show fell apart. yeah that's the exact point looked fun at the time but no no no, you two stay right here angels, deal with the mess you have made at home that i wanna see
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Jul 5, 2022 12:42
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MrMojok posted:If my rewatch posts are getting annoying, by all means, tell me so. I don’t want to irritate anyone. This is the GoT thread, friend, we have nothing better to talk about than an old man farting on a human face, forever.
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Jul 5, 2022 14:41
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Mantis42 posted:Honestly I'm an atheist and I thought the treatment in the show of religion was one of the areas where D&D showed their hand in a negative way. Same with their treatment of peasants. Religion is just closeminded bigotry that no one but insane people actually believe in (despite the supernatural definitely existing in this reality) and the peasants are too stupid to have agency. This is one of the things from that historian's analyis of the show that really stuck with me - nobody in the show believes in their own religions. The kings and queens just pay lipservice to it, the sparrow only uses it for his own political power etc. Cersei blowing up the Grant Sept wasn't just an act of murder, it was the greatest act of blasphemey Westeros has ever seen. And then...nothing. Nobody cares.
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Jul 5, 2022 15:22
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PostNouveau posted:In the books, he's rumored to be dying from grave injuries sustained while retaking Dragonstone from Stannis' men (on behalf of Cersei lol) I thought he was supposed to be genuinely skilled though. I like his one-liner to Jaime cuz it's the only time in the show he feels like somebody confident he get kick one-hand Jaime's rear end and maybe even regular Jaime. Cheating vs the Mountain doesn't mean he couldn't fight duels good.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:39
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I thought he was supposed to be genuinely skilled though. I like his one-liner to Jaime cuz it's the only time in the show he feels like somebody confident he get kick one-hand Jaime's rear end and maybe even regular Jaime. Cheating vs the Mountain doesn't mean he couldn't fight duels good. He is supposed to be. And hey, he DOES successfully retake Dragonstone, pot of burning oil dumped on his head or whatever notwithstanding
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Jul 5, 2022 16:43
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Strom Cuzewon posted:This is one of the things from that historian's analyis of the show that really stuck with me - nobody in the show believes in their own religions. The kings and queens just pay lipservice to it, the sparrow only uses it for his own political power etc. Cersei blowing up the Grant Sept wasn't just an act of murder, it was the greatest act of blasphemey Westeros has ever seen. And then...nothing. Nobody cares. Yeah, sometimes even in the books, it feels like Seven worshippers kind of forget that their God exists until the author needs them to remember. I think Catelyn comes off as the only Seven-raised POV that doesn't have any sort of cynical or agnostic view on their God. On the other hand, George really, really seems to sympathize with the idea of not being able to shake off religious indoctrination leftover from youth. Most Seven worshipping POV characters will talk about hating The Seven or claim to not believe in them, but even those characters still think about The Seven as something that exists. As someone who thinks he's atheist but grew up in a religious upbringing, it's extremely relatable to not be able to really shake the idea that God exists and I'm only rebelling against him or his followers.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:27
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Just saw the episode with Bran’s vision of his father totally not defeating Arthur Dane. Wasn’t there a big discussion in the GoT thread at the time about how infeasible and unrealistic dual-wielding is, in real life? I mean, it sure looks cool, I’ll give ‘em that. I know Miyamoto Musashi was known to do it, but katanas and robes are a little different from broadswords and armor, right?
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Jul 5, 2022 18:13
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God, that scene. It really just came off as D&D outright pissing on the books that they took a Knight whose one thing in the books was that he was an amazing swordsman who used one super-special fantasy sword, and gave him two normal-looking swords in the show. Supposedly, the idea of a small off-hand blade (something dagger-sized up to maybe a foot or so in length) was practiced in different parts of the world, but dual-wielding two full-sized longswords would be next to impossible. And that scene just looks clunky, like everyone's just really working Dayne's dual-wielding. On my own rewatch, I saw that the showrunners made a big stink of Kit's sword skills, and not without good reason. His sword swings were quick and way more practiced than anyone else and his fight scenes are miles away the best in the series.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:36
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Agree-Kit looked great handling the sword.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:56
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MrMojok posted:Just saw the episode with Bran’s vision of his father totally not defeating Arthur Dane. That fight sucked so bad. So much buildup and speculation, especially about how the Reed guy was going to save Ned's life because he's such a mysterious character in the books, and he just saves his life like every other loving action scene in every loving movie where he stabs the bad guy from behind as he's lurking over the hero about to deal the final blow but pausing for a long time for some reason before doing it.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:23
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In my head the scene always played out as big scrum between Ned's men and the 3 Kings Guard with Reed just firing poisoned arrows into the crowd and hitting everybody except Ned.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:50
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I just like the idea of Howland throwing a big net on him and he couldn’t get out.
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Jul 5, 2022 19:51
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bobjr posted:I just like the idea of Howland throwing a big net on him and he couldn’t get out. Yeah that would have been dope. Howland Reed with a net and trident hard-counters the greatest swordsman in the world.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:07
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In my head cannon Howlan Reed just loving tackled Dayne and the big dumb knight couldn't deal with a move like that.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:58
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Do the dumbass iron islanders in the book do the thing where they drown a would-be king and see if he spontaneously resuscitates with no assistance? You’d think they’d kill dozens of promising candidates doing that.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:19
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MrMojok posted:Do the dumbass iron islanders in the book do the thing where they drown a would-be king and see if he spontaneously resuscitates with no assistance? They do and they do.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:33
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MrMojok posted:Do the dumbass iron islanders in the book do the thing where they drown a would-be king and see if he spontaneously resuscitates with no assistance? The Greyjoys/Iron Islands make a lot more sense when you consider that any surviving leader has an anoxic brain injury
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Jul 5, 2022 22:04
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Pennsylvanian posted:God, that scene. It really just came off as D&D outright pissing on the books that they took a Knight whose one thing in the books was that he was an amazing swordsman who used one super-special fantasy sword, and gave him two normal-looking swords in the show. I just rewatched it, it really does remind me of the Star wars prequel sword fights and not in a very good way
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Jul 5, 2022 22:16
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arya and the hound is sort of the heart of the show in my opinion. not saying it's the best written stuff, some of it is very Epic GOT, but i think pretty much everybody who likes the show loves that relationship and thinks of it as one of the high points and reasons why the show was good. that's what i mean by heart. a lot of the show is very Ratings and Stupid.
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Jul 5, 2022 22:21
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Yeah, I can watch Arya and the Hound repeatedly. Just watched The Door. God, what a gut punch. I remember when it aired originally I could not stop thinking about it the whole next week at work. Hodor 
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Jul 5, 2022 22:52
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roomtone posted:arya and the hound is sort of the heart of the show in my opinion. not saying it's the best written stuff, some of it is very Epic GOT, but i think pretty much everybody who likes the show loves that relationship and thinks of it as one of the high points and reasons why the show was good. that's what i mean by heart. a lot of the show is very Ratings and Stupid. It's also basically a trope, Logan or True Grit or Shane or any other media about a violent, traumatized older man forced into a reluctant fatherly protector role by circumstance. But I agree, the Hound is the best of Arya's (very long roster of) murder-daddies, and easily the most interesting dynamic she has with one. It's a curse and a blessing, though. Because that Tarantino-as-gently caress tavern scene from S4E1 is really great. But it clearly set the stage for a particular tone and style to dialogue moving forward that gave us poo poo like "you need the bad pussy" or "lol you have no cock." These irreverently "quotable" moments that stand out as really inorganic or smug in a way earlier seasons seldom were (not even for Tyrion, really.)
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Jul 5, 2022 23:18
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It was The Door that finally got me to watch the show. I had been holding out, waiting for Winds (I'd started reading the series in the '90s when I was way too young to be reading it), and I finally gave in when I had that spoiled for me. I blasted through the show and didn't really pay mind to the worst parts while I was binging it.
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Jul 5, 2022 23:29
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Xealot posted:It's also basically a trope, Logan or True Grit or Shane or any other media about a violent, traumatized older man forced into a reluctant fatherly protector role by circumstance. But I agree, the Hound is the best of Arya's (very long roster of) murder-daddies, and easily the most interesting dynamic she has with one. yeah that's basically how i feel about it, too, it's what i was alluding to with 'very epic got' but you put it into words great relationship, enjoyable to watch, and draws you in but also sort of the death knell for the series, which you only realise in retrospect. you're playing on some very basic emotions with this relationship, and it really worked, and after this, they pretty much only play on basic emotions and the writing gets dumber and dumber until even the dummies are like wait this is dumb. roomtone fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 23:47
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Strom Cuzewon posted:This is one of the things from that historian's analyis of the show that really stuck with me - nobody in the show believes in their own religions. The kings and queens just pay lipservice to it, the sparrow only uses it for his own political power etc. Cersei blowing up the Grant Sept wasn't just an act of murder, it was the greatest act of blasphemey Westeros has ever seen. And then...nothing. Nobody cares.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:55
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