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It's so weird to me that even as Apple's popularity has exploded since the mid 00s there has never been a push to make Mac more of a viable platform for gaming. I mean, you can just run bootcamp and play games on that way pretty easily, but it's not like Apple is this niche brand like it was in the 80's and 90's, but you can still spend $1-3000 on an apple computer that is perfectly capable of playing any game you want. You just can't because 90% of devs just don't bother with OSX support.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:46
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veni veni veni posted:It's so weird to me that even as Apple's popularity has exploded since the mid 00s there has never been a push to make Mac more of a viable platform for gaming. I mean, you can just run bootcamp and play games on that way pretty easily, but it's not like Apple is this niche brand like it was in the 80's and 90's, but you can still spend $1-3000 on an apple computer that is perfectly capable of playing any game you want. You just can't because 90% of devs just don't bother with OSX support. Windows is still like 75% or something crazy of the market share for Operating Systems. MacOS is sitting in second at 15%. This is according to a quick Google search so it might not be accurate.
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Jul 5, 2022 16:55
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veni veni veni posted:It's so weird to me that even as Apple's popularity has exploded since the mid 00s there has never been a push to make Mac more of a viable platform for gaming. I mean, you can just run bootcamp and play games on that way pretty easily, but it's not like Apple is this niche brand like it was in the 80's and 90's, but you can still spend $1-3000 on an apple computer that is perfectly capable of playing any game you want. You just can't because 90% of devs just don't bother with OSX support. You can't run Bootcamp on the current Macs, mostly because Microsoft haven't released a publicly available version of Windows for ARM. I think Apple have said its all on Microsoft whether Bootcamp ever comes back. Cowman posted:Windows is still like 75% or something crazy of the market share for Operating Systems. MacOS is sitting in second at 15%. And as of the last Steam hardware survey MacOS is less than 3% of Steam users. Though that's still a higher percentage of users than people with VR headsets and Linux users.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:14
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Cowman posted:Windows is still like 75% or something crazy of the market share for Operating Systems. MacOS is sitting in second at 15%. Yeah but if you consider that almost everyone, or at least every family has some sort of PC, that number is still huge enough that it's surprising that Apple either doesn't care about, or can't get more comprehensive game releases. From the numbers I'm looking at, that 15% should equal nearly 30 million Macs sold per year. Even if only a fraction of buyers actually used them for games you'd think it would be worth it for both Apple and Publishers to get more titles on there. The PS4 was one of the most successful consoles of all time and sold 116 million units over 7 years. Presumedly the number of Macs sold over a 7 year period dwarfs that. I dunno, there's probably more to it. It's just weird that apple has just accepted being the PC that you can't game on, despite being such a juggernaut. njsykora posted:You can't run Bootcamp on the current Macs, mostly because Microsoft haven't released a publicly available version of Windows for ARM. I think Apple have said its all on Microsoft whether Bootcamp ever comes back. Oof, that's rough. Didn't even know that because I bounced off Mac a while ago (still love my 8 year old Macbook air for shitposting tho. Great little laptop) I'm not sure of how much that % matters. Surely that could be attributed to so few games having OSX releases?
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Jul 5, 2022 17:21
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veni veni veni posted:I dunno, there's probably more to it. It's just weird that apple has just accepted being the PC that you can't game on, despite being such a juggernaut. Because "gaming is for children, and if you want to play a game do so on the ios devices instead" is probably the C-level mentality
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Jul 5, 2022 17:26
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Apple is actively hostile to game developers, not just merely negligent. They deprecate perfectly functional APIs, they don't support industry standard ones but demand Apple-proprietary ones. It is a massive pain in the rear end to develop for MacOS, so unless you shovel mobile game trash onto the app store you'd be insane to spend time on developing for it.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:34
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Because "gaming is for children, and if you want to play a game do so on the ios devices instead" is probably the C-level mentality This is often what's been rumoured (no Tim Cook nothing you say can make me believe you play games after work), but I have hopes that someone with some level of power is pushing that gaming is basically the biggest expansion market Macs have at this point. There are a bunch of new gaming options in the next MacOS as well like system level button remapping and native support for racing wheels, flight sticks and even treating split controllers as a single unit like the Switch joycons.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:34
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veni veni veni posted:It's so weird to me that even as Apple's popularity has exploded since the mid 00s there has never been a push to make Mac more of a viable platform for gaming. I mean, you can just run bootcamp and play games on that way pretty easily, but it's not like Apple is this niche brand like it was in the 80's and 90's, but you can still spend $1-3000 on an apple computer that is perfectly capable of playing any game you want. You just can't because 90% of devs just don't bother with OSX support. Many, many games have MacOS support. I think out of my library of 1400 around 700 had ports. They varied in quality, with most being cheap platform-target-drop down jobs that took a huge performance hit compared to Windows, but for games made in the last few years it felt rare to encounter one that wouldn’t work. All that went out the window with the introduction of Apple silicon, though. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 17:38
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veni veni veni posted:Yeah but if you consider that almost everyone, or at least every family has some sort of PC, that number is still huge enough that it's surprising that Apple either doesn't care about, or can't get more comprehensive game releases. From the numbers I'm looking at, that 15% should equal nearly 30 million Macs sold per year. Even if only a fraction of buyers actually used them for games you'd think it would be worth it for both Apple and Publishers to get more titles on there. The PS4 was one of the most successful consoles of all time and sold 116 million units over 7 years. Presumedly the number of Macs sold over a 7 year period dwarfs that. Oh I agree it's super weird that Apple has completely given up on MacOS being anything but a productivity OS. My point was more that MacOS isn't very big especially compared to Windows so that's why game devs don't really do games for MacOS, it's more difficult than it's worth. Weirdly Linux is starting to become a serious gaming platform (still in its infancy of course) with Valve pushing for Linux ports and using Linux for their SteamOS. Doing a cursory search on Steam, there's roughly 35,000 games that claim to support MacOS Cowman fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 17:38
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Antigravitas posted:Apple is actively hostile to game developers, not just merely negligent. They deprecate perfectly functional APIs, they don't support industry standard ones but demand Apple-proprietary ones. It is a massive pain in the rear end to develop for MacOS, so unless you shovel mobile game trash onto the app store you'd be insane to spend time on developing for it. yep, apple deprecated opengl, immediately threw out mantle/vulkan, and introduced ~metal~ or what'sit called now instead so now unless you're gonna release your game on iphones, it arguably makes even less sense to release on mac than on linux, since you need to do the whole metal thing first. with linux it's mostly plain free these days if you're already releasing on vulkan already
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Jul 5, 2022 17:41
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Why would people want to play games on computers, when they can simply work more and more efficiently?
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Jul 5, 2022 17:42
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Apple is making a half assed attempt to get gaming again on metal or whatever. They just announced RE8 and something coming to the Mac. Hell, getting REengine on mac alone would open up Capcom’s current big hits.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:43
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Valve spent all this time and money to get away from a platform like windows, there's no way they put effort into MacOS, especially how absolutely awful it is for gaming. Funnily enough the early versions of Proton supported macOS (it was removed here). Wine has supported OS X since the first Intel Macs, but Wine requires 32-bit x86 support and Apple removed that, requiring you to disable Gatekeeper and use undocumented system calls that are likely to be removed to run 32-bit Windows programs. And then Apple abandoned x86 entirely in favor of ARM, so Wine is kind of dead on Macs. The point of Steam on Linux from the beginning has been as a hedge against both Windows and Macs becoming closed platforms where third-party stores are impossible, making Windows games run on a hostile and probably doomed platform like macOS is a waste of effort, especially when you'd piss off all the Mac game developers in the process.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:48
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One thing I was wondering, and forgive me for being naive as I know nothing about PC game licensing. How does taking a game that's been developed for Windows and basically forcing it to work on Linux not cause issues with Microsoft?
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Jul 5, 2022 18:15
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You don’t need a license for PC games.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:17
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Apple is making a half assed attempt to get gaming again on metal or whatever. They just announced RE8 and something coming to the Mac. The latest version of Metal as I understand it is also much more on parity with Vulkan in terms of features, which was a big issue with the last one. They also announced an upscaler along the lines of DLSS or FSR which would be a weird thing to do if they weren't at least trying something. I was also kinda surprised when I got my current M1 Macbook (my first mac) at how many games in my Steam library were compatible. Even stuff that doesn't list Mac compatibility on its store page. njsykora fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 5, 2022 |
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Jul 5, 2022 18:22
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You don't need a license for console games either. There's just a bunch of other difficult legal issues (e.g. reverse engineering and clean-room implementing the BIOS) that make it not worth it. Microsoft is still institutionally a cringing beaten dog from their anti-trust case and the European Union actually cares about consumers and might do something to Microsoft. The Oracle v. Google case regarding the copyrightability of APIs was a narrowly dodged nightmare scenario that still might come up again. Even though APIs can't currently be copyrighted and it is legal for somebody else to implement them, they can require implementations that use patented algorithms in order to be compatible, which is straight up illegal to copy. Wine is probably violating lots of Microsoft's patents. Every time you install a game and you get the Installing Microsoft Visuall C++ Runtime or DirectX June 2010 Redist notice, you're violating their EULAs which only allow you to install and use those on Windows operating systems. The short answer is that Steam for Linux is legally suspect in a variety of ways and Valve is just going for it anyway.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:29
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Is there a wiki or comprehensive blog post/guide for Steam Deck software and modding? Reddit is useless and most of the posted links are direct to a loose collection of discords and youtube videos which is a living nightmare for my luddite rear end.njsykora posted:This is often what's been rumoured (no Tim Cook nothing you say can make me believe you play games after work), but I have hopes that someone with some level of power is pushing that gaming is basically the biggest expansion market Macs have at this point. There are a bunch of new gaming options in the next MacOS as well like system level button remapping and native support for racing wheels, flight sticks and even treating split controllers as a single unit like the Switch joycons. Based on the fact that the ARM Macs run iOS apps natively I'm curious if it's just part of the push for the iPad as a gaming platform, which then trickles down to the current gen Macs.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:39
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Antigravitas posted:Apple is actively hostile to game developers, not just merely negligent. They deprecate perfectly functional APIs, they don't support industry standard ones but demand Apple-proprietary ones. It is a massive pain in the rear end to develop for MacOS, so unless you shovel mobile game trash onto the app store you'd be insane to spend time on developing for it. This is 100% correct. Publishers' disinterest in macOS as a game platform is entirely Apple's doing. Valve and game publishers made a push for macOS in the early 2010s. It was a booming market with a bright future. Then Apple made them eat poo poo over and over. They let OpenGL rot through the 2010s, refused to support Vulkan by releasing Metal in 2014, ended 32-bit support in 2019 leaving a ton of games unplayable, and then finally is phasing out x86 support now with the switch to M1. Most games don't make recurring revenue, so it doesn't make financial sense to keep them updated as Apple screws around with the OS underneath them. Your customers just get screwed and your game becomes unplayable. When a platform with a relatively small userbase fights you that hard, it doesn't make sense to support it. pseudorandom name posted:Funnily enough the early versions of Proton supported macOS (it was removed here). Yeah it was an early experiment. Didn't work well especially since MoltenVK wasn't nearly ready at the time, plus all the above stuff about how macOS sucks, so we dropped it before the first public release. njsykora posted:It’s possible, but unlikely it’d be done by Apple themselves. The closest we have right now is Crossover, which is a subscription program (about $40 a year) which works pretty well in making windows games work on MacOS. Andrew Tsai did a good video on how to get the best prices on that if you do go down that route. The amount of work that went into (and continues to go into) getting CrossOver to work post-32-bit and post-M1 is absolutely incredible. We had to make a custom, multiple-architecture-aware compiler for it. Here's a technical overview of how it works. pseudorandom name posted:Every time you install a game and you get the Installing Microsoft Visuall C++ Runtime or DirectX June 2010 Redist notice, you're violating their EULAs which only allow you to install and use those on Windows operating systems. I'm pretttttttty sure this isn't true. It is true for some other redists (.NET, maybe later MSVCRT?) but not for those ones.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:46
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couple of questions 1. is there a good way to transfer already downloaded games to the steam deck easily, say like over ethernet or usb-c or something? 2. is there a suggested matte screen protector for this? 3. any other suggested "things to have"? besides a dock
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Jul 5, 2022 18:56
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Hammer Bro. posted:Do you require that they launch through the heroic games launcher or are you fine if they just work? I don't really mind, I just don't want to end having to rebuy my GOG library on steam just to get it working on my deck. Let me know if you have a guide to help out.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:59
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Heran Bago posted:Update your Switch and look at the bottom of the settings, they patched in support for Bluetooth audio output at some point. Thank you!
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Jul 5, 2022 19:03
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ColdPie posted:The amount of work that went into (and continues to go into) getting CrossOver to work post-32-bit and post-M1 is absolutely incredible. We had to make a custom, multiple-architecture-aware compiler for it. Here's a technical overview of how it works. This is just insane in a beautiful way. Thanks for sharing the link. Cross-ISA 32-bit code embedded in a 64-bit process. What could be simpler?
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Jul 5, 2022 19:16
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  It's FINALLY moving, hot drat
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Jul 5, 2022 19:46
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So do they send out a wave of emails every day at a certain time? This calculator expects I have two days of orders left but I feel it’s said that for a while now. And the % of the way there seems very low to be roughly two days out. Unless I’m not understanding what it’s saying lol. 
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Jul 5, 2022 19:58
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Disappointing Pie posted:So do they send out a wave of emails every day at a certain time? This calculator expects I have two days of orders left but I feel it’s said that for a while now. And the % of the way there seems very low to be roughly two days out. Unless I’m not understanding what it’s saying lol. It's 2 days' worth of accumulated queue during the early pre-order that's left, not two calendar days until you get your email.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:21
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Subjunctive posted:It's 2 days' worth of accumulated queue during the early pre-order that's left, not two calendar days until you get your email. That makes way more sense lol! Thanks.
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Jul 5, 2022 20:23
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Disappointing Pie posted:That makes way more sense lol! Thanks. Yeah, for reference I got my 256gb email in early June and my order was a bit under five hours after pre-orders started.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:04
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ColdPie posted:This is 100% correct. Publishers' disinterest in macOS as a game platform is entirely Apple's doing. Valve and game publishers made a push for macOS in the early 2010s. It was a booming market with a bright future. Then Apple made them eat poo poo over and over. The driving force behind this was the decision to pull everything Apple into its own closed ecosystem. Apple has zero interest in being part of a software market it's not taking a huge rake out of. The only interest Apple has in gaming is Apple Arcade subscriptions, with small developers they can force into bad deals.
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Jul 5, 2022 21:42
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GreenBuckanneer posted:couple of questions sure man the structure of the steam folder is the same as on PC, move your game folder into the "common" folder you've got on your steam deck
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Jul 5, 2022 23:00
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Disappointing Pie posted:So do they send out a wave of emails every day at a certain time? This calculator expects I have two days of orders left but I feel it’s said that for a while now. And the % of the way there seems very low to be roughly two days out. Unless I’m not understanding what it’s saying lol. The percentage this site gives is more or less useless. Basically it looks at "what is the latest known timestamp that has received an order email", which in your screenshot is about 10.6 hours after orders opened. Then it looks at your order timestamp: about 78.5 hours after orders opened. Then they calculate 10.6 / 78.5 = .136 and say "Congratulations, you're 13.6% of the way to your order!" They don't have any knowledge of how many people are in line in front of you. They don't bother to do any extrapolation based on how many order emails went out per week in the past. It's just saying that 10.6 hours is 13.6% of 78.5 hours. The old Internet Explorer download progress dialog was more useful than this. The inanity of the percentage really stands out when you're someone like me who pre-ordered really really late... it says I'm at about 0.2%, and given that they've been sending out order emails for a few months now, I guess that means I can expect my email in several hundred years! Anyway I'll have a double cheeseburger and a chocolate frosty, thanks.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:17
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The people who Stan for that sheet give the very banal reply of "well actually you can't apply a linear interpolation to it because" like, that's all we have to go on, otherwise you'd be right.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:24
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niiiice I got my steamdeck notification this week. I've submitted it and now I guess I just have to f5 every five minutes for the rest of hte week until I see that it has shipped.
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Jul 6, 2022 00:58
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GreenBuckanneer posted:2. is there a suggested matte screen protector for this? I just got the Dbrand one and it's really nice: https://dbrand.com/shop/glass/steam-deck-tempered-glass-screen-protectors
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Jul 6, 2022 01:02
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sigher posted:I just got the Dbrand one and it's really nice: https://dbrand.com/shop/glass/steam-deck-tempered-glass-screen-protectors I'm sure it's a great protector but that is some of the most annoying marketing I've ever seen lol.
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Jul 6, 2022 01:19
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Impermanent posted:niiiice I got my steamdeck notification this week. I've submitted it and now I guess I just have to f5 every five minutes for the rest of hte week until I see that it has shipped. Same. Calc a few months put the expecration to mid or late july. Now to get an sd card and screen protector. 512gb model here.
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Jul 6, 2022 02:04
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What's the process for transferring over a non-steam windows game from my PC? Is it as simple as copying the game folder from my PC to somewhere on the deck and then adding it as a non-steam game?
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Jul 6, 2022 02:23
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.Ataraxia. posted:What's the process for transferring over a non-steam windows game from my PC? Is it as simple as copying the game folder from my PC to somewhere on the deck and then adding it as a non-steam game? Is it a Linux native game?
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Jul 6, 2022 02:28
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Is it going to look weird or defeat the purpose of the etched glass if I put a screen protector on my 512 GB model?
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Jul 6, 2022 02:35
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veni veni veni posted:I'm sure it's a great protector but that is some of the most annoying marketing I've ever seen lol. Dbrand's basically known for it, they constantly troll Linus and LMG on their YouTube with their video sponsor spots. It's all a bad joke.
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Jul 6, 2022 04:12
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